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California Lawsuit Wants To Weaken Noncompetes (axios.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: California already prohibits companies from enforcing noncompetes within the state, but a Bay Area life sciences company is asking a state court to go even further. Veeva Systems is suing three of its East Coast-based competitors and asking a California Superior Court judge to declare that it has the right to hire employees who have signed such agreements. Veeva also wants a court to limit the use of non-disparagement and confidentiality agreements. "Non-compete agreements are bad," the company said in its suit. "These agreements limit employment opportunities. They suppress wages. They keep employees trapped in jobs they do not want, and they keep employees from fairly competing with their former employers. These agreements restrict fair and robust competition for employees."

14 of 125 comments (clear)

  1. one solution by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    make the company that makes you sign a non compete pay you full salary for the duration of the non compete, whether you are actually working or not.

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    1. Re:one solution by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Take this a step further, require them to report your last day of employment as the last day of the non-compete. Ie: no employment gaps on your resume.

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    2. Re:one solution by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, that's (not quite) the reason why non-competes are invalid in CA. The court ruled that a company wouldn't just have to pay you your full salary, but in fact would have to pay you more than your full salary during the non-compete period. The justification was that during this period you would not be keeping up with the latest technologies, and your skills would bit-rot. You'd become inherently less employable, and the company must compensate you for that.

    3. Re:one solution by MangoCats · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I work for a major corporation which has this provision in its non-compete, no doubt as a bone for the "unconscionable" provisions of the law.

      The mechanism goes like this: if you want to take a job with a competing firm, first you must notify corporate legal who must review the potential move and either release you from non-compete obligations, or enforce the non-compete clause by offering you continued employment at a compensation rate matching the bona-fide offer you presented to legal for evaluation, whether or not you are actually working for the company.

      First problem: what does submitting your offer to legal and waiting for a response do to your chances of landing the outside job? what does it do to your continued career development if you end up not leaving?

      Second problem: how often does it all go as advertised, without lengthy delays, stonewalling, etc?

      Final problem: even if the company does pay you for non-compete, that's very temporary while you look for other work, basically little better than unemployment compensation - and you'll be trying to get it out of a legal department for a company that you're cutting ties with - what could possibly go wrong?

    4. Re:one solution by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That and most people in the software industry (and I imagine many other fields) switch jobs for a pay raise. Even that alone is enough to justify asking for more than your previous salary. The fairest way to do it would do a non-compete would be for the previous company to have an option to pay whatever your next employer is offering (or something close to 100% of that amount) to not work for them for some period of time.

      I think that alone makes it a fair compensation and there's nothing stopping a person from updating their skill set while they wait for the non-compete clause to expire. If you want to stay sharp, there're are plenty of open source projects to get involved in and there are plenty that are using new languages, technology, etc.

  2. Re:Voluntary Contract by avandesande · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the basis of contract law is that they are void if they require you do something illegal. IE if I sign a contract that makes me your slave it cannot be enforced.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  3. Re:Just Say No by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And when the six other people behind you get jobs and you don't, why, you can always eat your principles!

    Sometimes egregious behavior needs to be squashed by the courts or legislatures, and not just simply left up to the free market Invisible Hand.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  4. Re:Voluntary Contract by barc0001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Voluntary". Let's not bullshit, in almost every job offer situation the employer making the offer has significantly more leverage than the person accepting the job and will press for concessions like a non-compete. A lot of people sign on to the non-compete because they need the job today, and can't worry about the nebulous effects of the non-compete as it may apply in the abstract future. Employers know this and take full advantage of it because once the employee is in the door, that's one more thing keeping them there even if the work environment starts to suck.

    Those reasons alone are why it's not a bad idea for CA to void these "agreements".

  5. Contract law [Re:Voluntary Contract] by XXongo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why does CA think it can unilateral terminate a voluntary contract between an employee and employer?

    CA is not "terminating" a contract. It is declaring that the contract was not valid in the first place.

    What Makes a Contract Invalid? :

    When a contract is void, it is not valid. It can never be enforced under state or federal laws. A void contract is null from the moment it was created and neither party is bound by the terms. Think of it as one that a court would never recognize or enforce because there are missing elements.
    A contract can be void for the following reasons:
    The terms of the agreement are illegal or against public policy (unlawful consideration or object)
    A party was not of sound mind while signing the agreement
    A party was under the age of consent
    The terms are impossible
    The contract restricts the rights of a party

  6. Re:Voluntary Contract by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Oh god, libertarians.

    What would you do without the state civil court system?

    Duals? Warfare?

    Whether or not a contract is voluntary is irrelevant. What is relevant is the authority that can enforce the contract. In this case, that is the State of California and they can modify how contracts are enforced in their civil court system at will.

  7. Re:jimmy john's will cut you down to 1 hour / week by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Informative

    Jimmy John's is a sandwich place that was in the news last year for making low-wage employees sign non-competes that prevented them from working at other sandwich shops within 2 miles of a Jimmy John's. And it wasn't clear if working at a restaurant that happened to serve sandwiches also count, so Jimmy John's lawyers would blast ex-employees with scary letters just in case.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  8. Re:Voluntary Contract by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's not a given, else there'd be no need for severability clauses.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  9. Re:Just Say No by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Informative

    I work in the tech industry and I'm a pretty good negotiator when it comes to payment and other terms for a new job. But I've never been able to refuse to sign a non-compete and still get the job. It is likely impossible for a new college grad to refuse a non-compete, who doesn't have nearly as much power in these situations as I do.

    Now if you are a successful executive, then you have way more power and those kinds of things can be negotiated. But I assure you that at least in the Bay Area tech industry, you will find it difficult to negotiate anything like a severance package before your first day.

    Now if you're being terminated anyways, you should politely refuse to sign any new paperwork. If they want you to sign something bad enough that's when the severance packages come in. Sadly I've worked at places that cut 10% of their staff to save money, and to save even more money did not give severance to a single one of them. And rather than give them a 2 weeks notice, the company was concerned about employee sabotage and gave no notice other than everyone was invited to a room full of moving boxes and security escort. That's how some of the tech industry operates in my professional experience.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  10. Contracts have to have consideration to be valid by Solandri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A voluntary agreement is not sufficient to form a contract. Contracts must also have consideration - something you receive in exchange for something else. Often it's money, but it can also be products or services. For a contract to be valid, there must be consideration given by both sides. e.g. A contract saying all you transfer all your assets to me and that you willingly become my slave until the day you die is invalid, even if you willingly want the contract. I'm getting everything of yours, but you're not getting anything from me. So you are not receiving any consideration, and thus the contract is invalid.

    A non-compete requires the employee to give up something (their ability to work in their chosen field for a number of years) in exchange for nothing. If the company continued to pay you for the duration of the non-compete, then it could be valid. But because they company's lawyers are trying to get something for nothing, they refuse to give you any consideration in exchange for your non-compete, thus invalidating the non-compete as a legal contract.