Motorola Unveils the Moto Z2 Force, a Smartphone With Double the Cameras and a Shatterproof Screen (theverge.com)

Motorola has announced a new flagship smartphone that will be available on every major U.S. carrier. Some of the noteworthy specifications include a nearly indestructible screen and dual rear-facing camera sensors. The Verge reports: The Moto Z2 Force is the closest thing to a flagship phone that Motorola has released this year, and it's got all the hardware specs to show for it: inside is Qualcomm's Snapdragon 835 processor, 4GB of RAM, and 64GB of storage. It runs Android 7.1 with a promised upgrade to Android O to come. That's all standard fare for an expensive 2017 smartphone, and the Z2 Force is certainly expensive at around $720. It's priced even higher on some carriers like AT&T ($810). This version is much thinner than last year's phone, but that sleek design comes with a significant sacrifice in battery capacity; the Z2 Force has a 2,730mAh battery compared to the 3,500mAh battery in the old Moto Z Force. Between this and the Moto Z2 Play, Motorola sure does seem obsessed with slimming things down lately, and what are we gaining? Oh, there's no headphone jack on this thing either. Be prepared to go wireless or live the dongle life.

Comments

Early adopters

[nwaack]

I sure am glad there are so many people out there that are willing to spend $700+ on a phone. That way I can get a phone that can do 80% of what the "flagship" phones can do for 1/5 the price.

Re:Early adopters

[rogoshen1]

most folks who 'buy' a $700+ phone don't really realize it because it's amortized over 2 years or so at $15 a month.

It's the only way a sane person could be convinced to shell out that much money for something only incrementally different every 2 years or so.

(as for me, i'll keep my used 5s until one of us dies, or Apple shits the bed with an iOS update that makes it unbearable to use)

Re:Early adopters

[dwywit]

I bought a RAZR HD in 2013 for ~AUD$700 (outright). It's still got better than a day's battery life for normal use. It's rarely used to play videos or games, mostly it's my pocket computer, for business email and web browsing, occasionally as a hotspot, and occasionally for music.

The one drawback - and it could be seen as a major problem although I haven't experienced anything that interferes with my work - is that the carrier hasn't provided any updates since kitkat. I'm *never* buying a carrier-branded phone again.

That kind of money for a phone over a four-year lifespan is OK by me.

Re:Early adopters

[mspohr]

I've had a Nexus 5 for three years. Still works fine and does everything I need. Runs all the current wireless protocols and software.
My wife's Nexus 5 finally succumbed to being dropped too many times. I found a "refurb" Nexus 5 for $79.
I replaced the battery in mine for $9 even though it still had reasonable run time.
Phones reached "peak functionality" several years ago. Everything now is just bells and whistles. I'll wait until there is some real advance that I must have... but I don't anticipate it coming anytime soon.

Re:Early adopters

[ChunderDownunder]

Well since this is a Moto article, I guess I'd ask for your next purchase whether you'd need a top of the range for 4 years.

People on whirlpool and ozbargain seem to like the Moto G5 Plus, which can be had for about $AU350 - allowing you to upgrade every *two* years!

(me, I'm still on a Nexus 4 and gave my mother a Galaxy S2 as a hand-me-down - both running LineageOS 14.1)

Re:Early adopters

[samwichse]

I miss my Nexus 5... that phone was perfect in every way except battery life. Perfect size, plastic so it didn't need a case and was much lighter weight, nice screen, good performer, timely updates, nice soft-touch material on the outside made it nice and "grippy."

A modern update would be the same size, materials, and thickness but use more efficient processors/radios for longer battery life.

But nope! You get expensive, heavy, oversized, slippery metal phones, or cheap plastic phones with crappy screen resolution and barely acceptable performance.

Too bad I dropped mine into the bottom of a 750 gallon coolant tank :(.

Good enough

[rodrigoandrade]

We've reached the "good enough" point in smartphones a while ago, just like we did with PCs in the early 00s. Nobody cares anymore about spec sheets that much...

Hence, first post.

Re:Good enough

[rodrigoandrade]

OK, not first post, but it took a whole 12 minutes for the first post!!!

Nobody cares about the latest lithography, most megapixels, fastest RAM, moah pixels, etc. The only specs that still matters nowadays is battery life.

Re:Good enough

[epyT-R]

There's still plenty of room for improvement in the software, both OS and applications.

Re:Good enough

[DontBeAMoran]

In random order: battery life, display size, phone size and thickness, weight.

Thinner

[godel_56]

OK, so they've made it thinner, reducing battery capacity in the process (and getting rid of the headphone socket), but then they put a large camera bulge on the back?

They'll sell more without a headphone jack?

[bogaboga]

They had me hooked to the intro till I read the following...

Oh, there's no headphone jack on this thing either.

Something isn't quite right at Motorola, sadly. I am out! Sorry!

Re:They'll sell more without a headphone jack?

[Anonymous Coward]

This thing is super light, probably helping it from cracking the screen. 143g will feel like a feather in the hand.

Re:They'll sell more without a headphone jack?

[samwichse]

Still thick enough to have a jack, doesn't include a headphone jack.

Douchebag Motorola.

Won't buy anything without the jack, thanks.

Shattering.

[dohzer]

Shatterproof? I'll believe it when I *don't* see it (shatter).

Re:Shattering.

[Dutch Gun]

It's easy to make something "shatterproof" if you make it soft enough. The front screen is apparently plastic, not glass. Thus, it will get scratched all to hell, but probably won't shatter.

Re:Shattering.

[Joce640k]

If only there was a way to fix a thin piece of protective material to a screen. Something replaceable.

come on

[Anonymous Coward]

we don't need headphone jacks, or we wont soon, I'm sure of it!

Pretty soon Facebook will come up with an implantable Bluetooth device that allows for streaming audio directly to our brains, and advertisements while we sleep!

Convenience friends!

Again

[Daetrin]

I know i'm shouting into the wind against what the market (apparently) desires, but i don't want thinner. I want smaller, like the 1st gen Moto X. As long as the height and width are reduced enough so that i can use it one-handed without too much difficulty i don't care a great deal about the thickness. And a headphone jack is a requirement.

I started with the Nexus One, moved onto the 1st gen Moto X when the Google phones got too large, and then moved onto the Xperia X Compact when the Motorola phones got too large. Of the three phones the Moto X had the best UI and form factor, but i'm not going back to Motorola unless they start putting out smaller quality phones again.

Re:Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely this. Give me a thicker phone with more battery life. Give me a headphone jack. I just switched from iPhone to a Samsung S8. My two major grips with this phone:
1. Battery life is abysmal (and phone is too thin to hold comfortably)
2. Errant touches FREQUENTLY change settings.

#2 is not at all related to the discussion, but as long as I've got the soapbox I'm going to vent.

Seriously, I don't know ANYONE who keeps asking for thinner phones. I hear plenty of people asking for more battery life though. But hey, the smaller the battery, the sooner you're going to have to replace the phone because of inadequate battery life, eh?

Re:Again

[vivian]

I have an S8 that's sitting in the drawer - because of this exact reason. It was a nightmare to try and use outlook on it. It is all but impossible to hold the phone without activating touch sensitive side areas which would open emails or trigger things I didn't want triggered.
Apparently the problem goes away if you use a phone cover - but I never got round to getting one. Another annoyance is that despite it's metallic appearance, the whole phone is covered in glass, so there is no way for it to survive a drop - even though I had a quite expensive after-market screen protector on it to protect the curved glass front. The back of my phone is shattered now, as is one corner - after my cat knocked it off the bedside table - a drop of less than 1 meter.

Re:Again

[blindseer]

And a headphone jack is a requirement.

Whatever.

If that's what is keeping anyone from buying an $800 phone then I'm at a loss. Buy some new headphones already. I just did a bit of searching for USB-C headphones and I saw that Amazon will sell a pair of USB-C to 3.5mm audio adapters for $7. I saw a set of USB-C earbuds for $12. Name brand earbuds and headphones are as cheap as $40 and the sky is the limit on the top end, as with most things. If spending an extra $20 or $50 for a quality adapter or headphone set is too much after dropping nearly a grand on a phone is then perhaps you might want to rethink getting the latest and greatest cell phone, because the spare Micro-B charger you had for your last phone won't work on this either.

Take your set of headphones with the TRS connector and give it to one of your grandkids to play with. They'll probably ask you what it's for. Tape a jar lid to the cord end and tell them its a stethoscope. Then pry open your wallet and pull out a $20 bill or two and make a trip to Best Buy. One of the nice people in the blue shirts can help you out. They might look at you funny for paying with cash since most people buy things with their cell phones these days. I'd tell you how that works but since you are apparently so attached to your TRS connectors I suspect that this kind of culture shock might induce a heart attack.

After you've tried your new headphones for a bit come back to your computer and dial up into AOL and give me a review, I'd like to know what you got.

Re:Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Vote with your wallet.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jelly-the-smallest-4g-smartphone-android#/

I put money down for one of these even if it's not a perfect match for me.

Re:Again

[Daetrin]

Stop being a troll if you want to be taken seriously. If you'd been paying attention you'd realize all the phones i've purchased have been premium phones and i've already upgraded to USB-C, so clearly it's not the price that concerns me, it's the stupidity and wastefulness of it.

The only stated reasons i've seen for ditching the heaphone jack are waterproofing and making it thinner (and i guess that maybe some people think high-tech is always cooler than old tech) and i have zero interest in either of those features. On the other hand adapters that will let you charge your phone while also using USB-C headphones are hard to find and have a lot of reported issues, and being able to charge my phone while listening to music _is_ a feature i need.

So they want me to pay more to replace a fully mature standard in order to get features i don't want while causing difficulties i never experienced with the old standard. I'd happily pay the price if i was getting any kind of benefit, but given the problems with the new format i'd be hesitant even if _they_ were paying _me_.

Re:Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Throw in a slider keyboard while you're at it, screen keyboards piss me off to no end and I'm so much faster with a physical one and I don't even need to be looking at the phone to use one.

Re:Again

[blindseer]

Stop being a troll if you want to be taken seriously. If you'd been paying attention you'd realize all the phones i've purchased have been premium phones and i've already upgraded to USB-C, so clearly it's not the price that concerns me, it's the stupidity and wastefulness of it.

I wasn't speaking to you specifically, just generally to all that complain of the lack of a headphone port on a top notch phone.

As you say you already have a newer phone so all of my over the top commentary does not apply to you. I was being absurd to highlight the absurdity of it all.

I've had Apple iDevices for a long time now. Over the years I've collected three iPods with the 30 pin port before getting my iPhone 7. I paid something like $500 for it knowing I'd have to spend another $100 on accessories to get the convenience I had with my iPods. I got a Lightning to 30 pin adapter for the stereo in my truck, an extra 2 meter charge cable so I wouldn't have to trip over the short one that came with it, and a short Lightning cable for the charger I keep by my bed. It came with the headphone adapter, like the Motorola does, and I keep that in my book bag with the headphones and the charger that came with it.

One reason I don't miss the headphone jack is that the headphone jack on my iPod touch broke. While in my truck I used the cable in there to listen and charge the iPod. When at home I'd listen to the built in speakers, stream to the Airport base station by my stereo, or stream to a Bluetooth speaker. I missed the ability to listen to the iPod in the library as I studied but I knew if I wanted that function back again I could pick up a Bluetooth headphone set.

With an $800 phone and headphone adapters available for $10 a pair it seems absurd to bitch about the lack of that headphone port. Especially when they tend to wear out or break like what happened in my iPod. If you can pry open your wallet far enough to pull out $800 then you can find another $10 or so for the adapters, lacking that then perhaps you can find a $700 phone and pick out $100 of accessories like I did and be much happier in the end.

Such complaints on the lack of a built in headphone jack just sounds as absurd as buying a $800 TV set and then complaining you have to use the $10 adapter that comes with it to plug in your old rabbit ear antenna. Sure you might have to buy another adapter or something so you can use your old Nintendo AND get your cable TV but not many people do that any more. You are in the minority, and that comes with a cost when buying consumer devices.

Re:Again

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he wants a phone at a usable size for one-handed use, not something that is ridiculously small.

The other specs on that phone are rubbish as well. It'll be fine for its stated purpose, but it isn't an alternative for someone who is fed up with the normal size for Android phones being 5.5" or more.

What's this "dongle life"?

[blindseer]

Be prepared to go wireless or live the dongle life.

In my book bag, along with my books, papers, pens, and so forth, is a pair of headphones for my iPhone. Attached to the headphones is this tiny little "dongle" that allows me to plug the headphones into my iPhone. I don't really think about it, it's just become part of the headphone set in my mind.

Give up on this already. USB-C is here to stay. Buy a four pack of USB-A to USB-C adapters for $20 and shut up already. If you are buying a $800 phone or $1500 laptop then just consider the adapters the "legacy tax" for not upgrading everything at once, you can afford it.

If someone isn't already offering a set of USB-C headphones then I expect it to happen real soon now. Until then pay your "legacy tax", shut up, and when you lose, break, or wear out the headphones you got then go buy a nice shiny new USB-C headphone set. Who knows, it might just come with a "dongle" for your old 1/8" TRS devices in the box.

I've been living the "dongle life" since I bought my first computer. Actually even before that. I picked a VT terminal from the trash while in college. I had to get a DB-9 to 25 pin "dongle" to plug into the serial line provided in the dorm rooms.

Now get off my lawn!

Re:What's this "dongle life"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, when you spend this much on a gadget, you should expect less usefulness and a dick shoved up your ass. Get used to it. It's the fuck you tax. The new norm, get used to it.

Re: What's this "dongle life"?

[Anonymous Coward]

So how do I charge my phone on a flight while listening to wired headphones? Oh. That's right. I can't. Pretty convenient.

Re:What's this "dongle life"?

[blindseer]

Right! When I spend $150 on a new laser printer I expect it to have a parallel port, dammit! You expect me to spend an extra $20 for a USB card and cable! Outrageous I tell you. These people are just giving me a "fuck you tax" because I am not about to spend any money on a new computer. Have you seen what those things cost? They want me to spend another $200 on one of those "chrome book" things. Chrome? At that price they must be made of platinum!

Now go away. I have to call these internet people. They tell me I have to upgrade my modem to this "dock sis" thing they are trying to push on me. I paid good money for my modem in 1998, top of the line too. It's got the latest in 56K technology, that's all I need. What's one of these "dock sis" things cost anyway? FIFTY DOLLARS! Is that made of chrome too?

Re: What's this "dongle life"?

[blindseer]

With this:
https://www.amazon.com/Support...
Or this:
https://www.amazon.com/Yeworth...

If you spent $800 on a cell phone and $500 on an airplane ticket then an extra $10 or $15 isn't going to kill you. Buy a bottle of water instead of your usual Starbucks coffee and muffin, you'll come out even after that. I have a suspicion the reduction in calories wouldn't hurt. After you've bought this adapter then just keep it plugged into your headphones. Trust me, after a while you won't even notice it's there.

Re: What's this "dongle life"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, everyone is a $100K/year dev and can spend $15 on mindless crap all the time.

Newsflash, in most of the first world wages are a small fraction of that. Even though, even homeless people tend to have a smartphone these days. Also, there are low cost airlines and super low prices when bought at certain times on the internet. That or people drive a 90s 40 MPG car, or no car at all and spent $ on a computer phone and a ticket after saving the whole year for the ticket.

Oh, you bought $100 shoes! that must mean you can afford hooker and blackjack. Nope.
(doubly nope, since you've just spent the $100 on shoes)

Re:What's this "dongle life"?

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the printer dropped USB 2.0 and only accepts Bluetooth 4.1 for data input? That'd be a load of fucking bullshit!

Jack 3.5mm is definitely the current standard for audio. It has displaced or complemented dual RCA for audio input on most consumer electronics and it won against jack 2.5mm on small electronics too.

Can your $200 Chromecrap even print to a non-networked recto-verso laser printer?

Re:What's this "dongle life"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Give up on this already.!

Right back at you, champ!

Re:What's this "dongle life"?

[squiggleslash]

Most of us don't carry a bag around with us. We have a car we'd like to plug the phone into, headphones at our desk, headphones at home, etc. So yes, it works for your lifestyle, and probably works for most women (who carry a handbag) but for a significant number of us a dongle is extra gear we don't want to carry.

I don't honestly see why there's such a problem with the idea of phasing out analog in favor of digital, as opposed to Apple's - and apparently their devoted copiers - approach of trying to murder analog. Building phones with both sockets adds pennies to the cost and has pretty much no downside. So build them. And in the mean time encourage third parties to move over to devices with USB-C connectors.

We didn't do this in the switch from RCA to HDMI (on consumer sets, or VGA to HDMI on computers), why are we doing this with the much more ubiquitous analog headset jack?

Re: What's this "dongle life"?

[blindseer]

You just said that you bought a top of the line cell phone and want to listen to it on wired headphones while charging it on a plane. That sounds like the $100k/year type person, not the homeless dude that wants a phone to keep in touch with family and look for a job.

Don't buy an $800 phone if you cannot afford the headphones too, or do without the headphones. No one can make a phone for all people.

I suspect that in this price range the lack of a 1/8" jack is a feature. It tells people that the owner has moved on to new technology and can afford a new $15 headphone set. Such people will have a wireless head set, spend the bucks for a splitter cable, or not be inconvenienced with the inability to listen while charging.

Somewhere between two years and two hours from now all new cell phones sold will lose the headphone jack. The homeless dude will have to put the phone to his head to listen to music while charging his phone on the plane.

Re:What's this "dongle life"?

[blindseer]

What if the printer dropped USB 2.0 and only accepts Bluetooth 4.1 for data input?

You mean they dropped a 20 year old standard for a 15 year old standard? The horror.

A USB to Bluetooth adapter costs $20 and you only need one to communicate with multiple devices. A USB A to B cable costs $5 and you need one for every USB device you want to connect to. Assuming the printer does not come with the USB cable (which seems to be the norm) and the computer does not already have Bluetooth (when Bluetooth seems pretty common for 10 years now) then one is likely better off just using Bluetooth anyway.

That'd be a load of fucking bullshit!

No, it wouldn't.

Re: What's this "dongle life"?

[samwichse]

Pop quiz: in what way is this solution superior in ANY WAY to just having the jack in the phone?

Not what I want

[Anonymous Coward]

I want a phone with 1 camera for when I need pics or video. I don't want/need a selfie camera, that's what my government wants (U.S.A. citizen). I want security. I don't want my phone being able to eavesdrop on me. When I don't want my camera 'on', it shouldn't be 'on' for any reason.

captcha: guardian

Form over function equals no sale

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a moto x gen2, and I'm okay with it.

Wouldn't buy the new one though. No headphone jack and prioritizing thinness over decent battery life is just stupid.

No thanks.

Make an addon with the 3.5" jack.

[sethstorm]

Nothing says it couldn't be restored with an addon.

No headphone jack = Nope!

[Nocturrne]

Sorry, I must have my analog audio output. There will be no DRM infested dongles in my life.

Re:No headphone jack = Nope!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm all with the people bitching : going from two connectors on the phone to one connector is a regression, needing a dongle is a regression. Like that stupid ass laptop where you can't use power supply and a mouse at the same time.

I suspect most USB-C audio will be analog though, since this is what allows a cheap dongle and cheap ear buds (e.g. ones included in the box). So in a way you do have an analog audio output.

Re: No headphone jack = Nope!

[zrobotics]

Umm, usb c audio is exactly as 'analog' as audio from a 3.5mm jack. Straight from the dac to the jack. And there isn't any drm in the dongle either, they're exactly as complicated as a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter.

Not on storage, no!

[unixisc]

Actually, not quite. In PCs/laptops, entry level models still come w/ no less than 100GB of storage, which is what one needs in a fully adequate computer. The only exceptions are chromebooks, which seem artificially crippled.

On phones, on the other hand, most of them have either 16GB or 32GB main memory, which is inadequate when one counts not just the apps, but also data that doesn't normally go to SD cards - such as one's messages. 64GB should be the minimum amount of storage on an affordable phone. When that happens, that will be the stage where phones too are good enough.

Shatterproof, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me a shatterproof screen and I'll show you a screen that will shatter.