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Tests Show Workers At Hanford Nuclear Facility Inhaled Radioactive Plutonium (king5.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from King 5, a local news station for Seattle, Washington: On June 8 approximately 350 Hanford workers were ordered to "take cover" after alarms designed to detect elevated levels of airborne radioactive contamination went off. It was quickly determined that radioactive particles had been swept out of a containment zone at the plutonium finishing plant (PFP) demolition site. The work is considered the most hazardous demolition project on the entire nuclear reservation. At the time Hanford officials called the safety measure "precautionary." Officials from the U.S. Dept. of Energy, which owns Hanford, and the contractor in charge of the demolition, CH2M Hill, downplayed the seriousness of the event with statements including, it appeared "workers were not at risk", "(the alarm went off) in an area where contamination is expected" and there was "no evidence radioactive particles had been inhaled" by anyone.

The KING 5 Investigators have discovered those statements are incorrect. An internal CH2M Hill email sent to their employees on July 21 was obtained by KING. It states that 301 (test kits) have been issued to employees and of the first 65 workers tested, a "small number of employees" showed positive results for "internal exposures" (by radioactive plutonium). Sources tell KING the "small number of employees" is twelve. Twelve people out of 65 is 20 percent. Still outstanding are 236 tests. A communication specialist with CH2M Hill sent a statement that more positive results are expected. "We expect additional positive results because analytical tests like a bioassay can detect radiological contamination at levels far lower than what field monitoring can detect," said Destry Henderson of CH2M Hill Plateau Remediation Company.

158 comments

  1. It's not the radioactivity... by ZecretZquirrel · · Score: 2

    ...but the toxicity of Pu itself that'll getcha.

    1. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Namarrgon · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's true that Plutonium is highly toxic, but an airborne particle is probably not enough to cause significant health effects from that (the toxology profile suggests the level for that is 10 ppm) - depending on how many are inhaled of course.

      But the radiation is indeed the bigger hazard. Plutonium's long half-life means it's not as dangerously radioactive as some other elements - so long as exposure is relatively brief or distant (inverse square law applies). When it gets inside you though, it sticks in there for decades, and at that extremely close range the radiation is a lot more powerful, so your chances of cancer go up significantly.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    2. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with Plutonium is, it wanders into the bone marrow.
      That means even very small amounts are deadly. Per kg weight the deadly dose is about 0.32mg.
      Of course it is unlikely the workers inhaled that much. OTOH, a lower dose might be deadly, too. If you have bad luck.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by toonces33 · · Score: 2

      It is an alpha emitter, so yeah, I would worry about the radiation. Those things can do a number on you if you ingest them.

    4. Re: It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The inverse square law doesnt apply at close distances. An alpha emitter in bone will deposit locally and kill adjacent cells with each decay. The committed effective dose for a 50 year lifetime is quite high for Pu due to the alpha decay, not any gamma effects as those will have a greater chance of leaving the body without interacting. These people needed immediate doses of prussian blue following this event in anticilation of a heavy metal poisoning. While the doses shown arent deadly, they sure dont help the cause.

    5. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      They could do the trick where you fill the lungs with breathable fluid and vacuum it back out. That might get most of it out.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    6. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Sounds expensive. These are private contractors.

    7. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Pu is not toxic in these doses. It will pretty reliably cause lung-cancer from the radioactivity though.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    8. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Lots of things can 'do a number' if you ingest them, and you ingest a lot of those things every single day. Its all about concentration, and for some reason people always assume radioactive contamination are orders of magnitude greater than they really are, and greatly overestimate the risks they actually present. And then you get the FUD about how ingesting even the smallest amount is some kind of lingering cancer just waiting to happen. Then you get the 'attaches to the bone' FUD which NEVER discusses actual risk from the actual amounts of exposure. In reality, for most substances, very little stays in the body to begin with, and the small amounts that we typically see pose almost zero health risk. Most people would be surprised how much it takes to statistically impact risk, and how little these exposures are in comparison, including ingestion events.

      I just sit back and see those that don't have the slightest clue post their cut and paste FUD. You had better not let sunlight hit you today, or you stand the risk of dying a horrible slow death from skin cancer. Did you breath in a smoke particle? It just takes one to cause lung cancer! Did you touch a rain gutter? You could contract a deadly infection!

    9. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Pu is not toxic in these doses. It will pretty reliably cause lung-cancer from the radioactivity though.

      No, it almost certainly will not cause lung cancer in these amounts.

    10. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      The Headlines;

      Thieves Who Stole Cobalt-60 in Mexico Are Likely Dead Or Dying
      Mexican Cobalt-60 robbers are DEAD MEN, say authorities
      Mexican cobalt-60 thieves will soon die of radiation exposure
      Stolen cobalt-60 found in Mexico; thieves may be doomed

      The Reality; All were released from the hospital, with only one showing some exposure effects. None is likely to have any long term health issues.

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/06/...

      Of course when I argued at the time that the fears were overblown right here on /., the same old fear mongers simply ignored and posted their same old FUD.

    11. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

      Smokers are exposed to the highest levels of alpha radiation encountered by any group of humans on the planet (polonium), but the vast majority of cancers which develop in ex-smokers seem to be catalysed by the breakdown products of that radiation (berylium features heavily in the decay chain and it's a major carcinogen) rather than the radiation.

    12. Re: It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very little stays in the body? These folks are new members of the IPPU club (I pee PU). Thats a lifelong membership.

    13. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Actually, it will. They are talking 1 milirem, which as high-energy Alpha, directly on vulnerable lung tissue is quite a lot. The number is only that low because Alpha has basically no reach. That does not protect the cells in reach at all though. Misdirection of this type is quite common in the utterly criminal nuclear industry.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    14. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those articles don't say the same things as the headlines. And one headline even says, "may". I think you're the one exaggerating things.

    15. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Actually, it will. They are talking 1 milirem, which as high-energy Alpha, directly on vulnerable lung tissue is quite a lot. The number is only that low because Alpha has basically no reach. That does not protect the cells in reach at all though. Misdirection of this type is quite common in the utterly criminal nuclear industry.

      No, it most likely won't. The fact that you speak in absolute terms tells me you are ignorant to the associated risk. There is an increase in risk, but that does not make it probable. Stating untruths based on your ignorant assumptions helps no one.

    16. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      No, those are actual headines. I did not change any words.

    17. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...yeah, my first thought on reading that was "There's 12 dead men walking". Hell of a way to die, too.

    18. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The expected dose over a lifetime in the people with positive results is less than 1 mrem. That's a small number. This includes the scaling for the large biological effectiveness of the alpha. A modern chest x-ray is ~10 mrem. In terms of the effect of the radiation, the exposure of these workers is equivalent to one tenth of a chest x-ray. Their additional cancer risks from this exposure are tiny.

    19. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      It's true that Plutonium is highly toxic, but an airborne particle is probably not enough to cause significant health effects from that (the toxology profile suggests the level for that is 10 ppm)

      This is talking about plutonium oxide and not plutonium chloride which is more soluble.

      • This was interesting:
      • Inhaled plutonium that has entered the blood appears to be largely bound to transferrin and becomes associated with iron-binding proteins such as ferritin and lipofuscin upon entering hepatocytes

      Iron-binding, as in it's an iron analogue to the body. So this seems to be saying that plutonium oxide does becomes organically bound, which means it can accumulate in the lungs, dammit, I thought it was exhaled. I thought that only plutonium chloride was organically bound.

      Thanks this is an interesting paper, is there a similar paper for water bound plutonium chloride?

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    20. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OH MY GOD!

      People knowingly working with this stuff, and the risks, who agree to work with it anyways get some contamination is headline news.

      Its like complaining that giant radiation nuclear fire ball 8 light minutes from here gave you sunburn.

    21. Re: It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It can organically bind to stuff that gets expelled as well, but you'll probably ignore that...its bliss.

    22. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The six mentioned in the CNN story are not the thieves.

    23. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      They were the only suspects, they simply didn't have evidence to charge them.

    24. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Six people have been arrested in connection with the theft this week of a truck carrying highly radioactive waste in an episode that caused an international scare and raised concerns about the transporting of nuclear material. The group was arrested Thursday night and taken to a hospital in Pachuca, 60 miles north of here and not far from the small town where the truck and the material, cobalt 60, were found Wednesday after armed robbers stole them Monday. One of the people, a 16-year-old boy, was vomiting and had signs of possible radiation sickness, while the others were taken to the hospital as a precaution before all were cleared and released in the late afternoon and turned over to the federal police.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12...

    25. Re: It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the same way you ignore how it got there in the first place. Moron fuckwit

    26. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a physicist and have worked in a radiation therapy unit in a hospital. And you are a fool. The Cobalt-60 sources used in radiation therapy can emit a lethal dose in minutes. That nobody died was pure luck. The thieves sold it off without opening it. And the people from the scrapeyard who bought it heard the news and dumped it on an empty field before something really bad could happen. Still, a guy got radiation sickness and another one severe radiation burns.

      https://www.buzzfeed.com/marycuddehe/what-happens-when-a-truck-carrying-radioactive-material-gets

    27. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Smokers are exposed to the highest levels of alpha radiation encountered by any group of humans on the planet (polonium), but the vast majority of cancers which develop in ex-smokers seem to be catalysed by the breakdown products of that radiation (berylium features heavily in the decay chain

      Huh?

      That's a Wheeler-ism : "not even wrong".

      Polonium has isotopes

      1. 208 (alpha decay to 204Pb, which is stable ; positron emission to 208Bi, which is sort-of-stable (~10^19 years half life) ;
      2. 209 (alpha decay to 205Pb, electron emission to 205Tl which is stable) ; positron emission to 209Bi, alpha decay to 205Tl which is stable.
      3. 210 (alpha decay to 206Pb which is stable)

      You're trying to say something, but I can't for the blazes figure out what.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    28. Re: It's not the radioactivity... by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Yes, like when someone is severely bleeding or when they have a marrow transplant.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    29. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of things can 'do a number' if you ingest them

      Like your bullshit

    30. Re:It's not the radioactivity... by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      The article says nowhere that a "lifetime's" dose is only 1 mrem - the contractor said only that "a dose of less than or equal to 1 millirem" had already been detected in the affected people, and that 1 mrem over 50 years is insignificant.

      But this completely glosses over the real issue, that with alpha-emitting particles lodged in your body all that time, you will be continually irradiated. Which is why the article continues on to cite four radiation experts including Dr Kaltofen, who called the contractor's statement "misleading", and said,"With plutonium, the exposure is in your body for days, months or even years. A millionth of a gram of plutonium has a measurable risk of causing a lethal lung cancer."

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
  2. Humans can't be trusted with this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The *first* reaction when these events occur is to lie and initiate a cover-up, followed by down-played reports from "officials".

    This happens **EVERY** time.

    See - 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Hanford, etc. etc. etc And the list goes on.

    THERE IS ALWAYS A LIE AND A COVER UP... EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    1. Re:Humans can't be trusted with this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See - 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Hanford, etc. etc. etc And the list goes on.

      The list appears to have stopped there, unless I'm misreading.

  3. I bet by meglon · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I bet these workers are so incredibly glad nuclear power is such a clean source of energy.

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    1. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They took one for the team. I wonder if your grandchildren will thank them 50 years from now when sea levels haven't risen quite as much as they otherwise would have? I'm guessing... nope.

    2. Re: I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wasn't Hanford intended for nuclear weapons development?

    3. Re: I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hanford was from the bad old days of nuclear weapons development where everything was done as fast and cheaply as possible. It has nothing to do with power generation

    4. Re: I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yep, starting with the Manhattan Project. It's been producing plutonium for bombs since 1943.

    5. Re: I bet by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wasn't Hanford intended for nuclear weapons development?

      Yep, the unheard of twin, the plutonium used in the second bomb on Japan was produce at Hanford. Production continued till Chernobyl blew up (steam explosion). They were a carbon moderated reactor as was the last operating nuclear production reactor at Hanford.

    6. Re:I bet by tylersoze · · Score: 1

      And how many people have died of black lung?

    7. Re:I bet by doom · · Score: 2

      I bet these workers are so incredibly glad nuclear power is such a clean source of energy.

      Try to make some minor effort to know what you're talking about. The issues with Hanford have nothing to do with civilian power generation. Just quoting the summary: "...radioactive particles had been swept out of a containment zone at the plutonium finishing plant (PFP) demolition site."; Or you could try Hanford Site: "The Hanford Site is a mostly decommissioned nuclear production complex"

      Even if this was an incident at a nuclear power plant, the thing thing to do would be to treat it much the way we do plane crashes-- find out why it happened, and think about what to do to keep it from happening again.

      The fact that we treat anti-nuclear activists differently from, say, a crazy on a street corner screaming about how planes just aren't SAFE, this is pretty remarkable.

    8. Re: I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least it doesn't kill birds like those horrible wind farms.

    9. Re:I bet by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Informative

      I bet these workers are so incredibly glad nuclear power is such a clean source of energy.

      But since Hanford was a nuclear weapons plant, this story has nothing to do with sources of energy.

    10. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 0

      Nuclear facilities ONLY in the US that require cleaning up cover a land area roughly the size of Rhode Island.
      br> What is remarkable is that anyone with any common sense at all would compare a plane crash, or even multiple plane crashes, who's long term effect may well be only the loss of several hundreds of lives, with a single, or multiple nuclear accidents that literally contaminate vast area's for thousands of years, as well as cause untold death and biological mutations across the full spectrum of a given biome. One is a single time, mass casualty.... the other, the potential for destruction for LITERALLY thousands of years to come.

      If you can see the long term effects of nuclear, and are one of these people who keep claiming nuclear is clean... well, it's simple: you're a fucking idiot. If it was clean, the Hanford site wouldn't even exist.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    11. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 2

      How many have died from solar, wind, or wave?

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    12. Re:I bet by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      I bet these workers are so incredibly glad nuclear power is such a clean source of energy.

      I can tell you for a fact they are. Hanford was the employer of an entire town at one time (Richland). It was built to house them. Now the only jobs available are what they are doing.

    13. Re:I bet by quenda · · Score: 1

      How many have died from solar, wind, or wave?

      15,000 killed in one day by wave when the Fukushima plant failed. Zero by radiation.
      Funny how some people forget that perspective.

    14. Re:I bet by Chas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How many people died because of Three Mile Island?

      None.

      As for contamination. You DO realize exactly how much Thorium and Uranium are present in the ground beneath your feet right? Where do you think radon gas comes from?

      Done SAFELY, nuclear is essentially carbon-free.

      And the problems with current nuclear can be solved by moving to a different reactor model. One that's inherently safe and runs no risk of steam explosions.
      Unlike the solid fuel reactors, it burns ALL of it's fuel, so you're not pulling fuel that's only 10-15% spent.
      And while the byproducts which aren't medically or scientifically useful are VERY radioactive, they're only this way for short periods of time.

      And even if it was megaton quantities (like the waste from solid fuel reactors from the past 60 years), it's still a drop in the bucket compared to what's gone up the flues of coal-fired plants.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    15. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      quite a few actually.

    16. Re:I bet by SnowZero · · Score: 2, Informative

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam
      171,000 killed, or 40x the deaths attributable to the Chernobyl disaster.

      You can say we (mostly) don't build dams like that anymore, but we don't build reactors like Chernobyl anymore either.

    17. Re:I bet by tlambert · · Score: 1

      More than 9,000 per year from skin cancer.

    18. Re:I bet by tlambert · · Score: 1

      Just in the US.

    19. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 0
      How many people died from Chernobyl and Fukushima? How many suffered irreparable damage from radiation exposure? How many generations will that damage propagate? Now how about animals, plants, the biosphere around those areas?

      You're conflating "carbon-free" with clean. Done "safely" apparently means having a level 7 or higher event once every 20 years or so.

      As for all the problems being solved by simply a different reactor design, i suppose if unicorns shit energy that'd solve the problem as well. IF that was all it took, THAT would have already been done. Anyone telling you something will burn all it's fuel is outright lying to you... if it's not economically feasible, it ain't going to happen... which is WHY they remove fuel rods with so much full left in them: MONEY.

      https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm...

      Strontium-90 and cesium-137 have half-lives of about 30 years (half the radioactivity will decay in 30 years). Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,000 years.

      Of course if the strontium gives you bone cancer or leukemia, your own biological half-life is substantially shorter. Then again, the cesium will kill you faster... so i guess the moral is: hope for just bone cancer. And that 24,000 years on Pu still doesn't make it safe.

      I still don't know what the fixation with coal is. Yes, coal is very bad.... worse than nuclear. But, nuclear isn't "clean." Peoples attempts to minimize what damage it can cause, AND HAS CAUSED, makes me think they're fucking idiots... fucking idiots that need to take a remedial high school chemistry class to bone up on basic fucking knowledge.

      Tell yah what though.... i'll stand here on my little piece of ground with all that thorium and uranium present, and you go over to Hanford and climb into one of their spent fuel pools, and let me know which of us got the better of the deal. That's rhetorical because you won't fucking be able to.... in short order you'll be a puddle of biological material even your dentist won't be able to identify.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    20. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does a nuclear weapons facility in a country known for lax health and safety procedures for military affairs and a general disinterest for the environment have to do with nuclear power?

    21. Re:I bet by danbert8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Fukushima: "None of the workers at the Fukushima Daiichi site have died from acute radiation poisoning,[17] though six workers died due to various reasons, including cardiovascular disease, during the containment efforts or work to stabilize the earthquake and tsunami damage to the site.[17]" "Although it was the largest nuclear disaster since the Chernobyl disaster of 1986,[10] and the radiation released exceeded official safety guidelines, there were no casualties caused by radiation exposure, but 34 people died as a result of the evacuation.[4]"

      Chernobyl: "56 direct deaths (47 accident workers and nine children with thyroid cancer) resulted from the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, and it is estimated that there may eventually be 4,000 extra cancer deaths among the approximately 600,000 most highly exposed people.[2][3][4]"

      Nuclear is pretty clean. Fukushima is an accident, but to call it a disaster is an insult to the earthquake and tsunami that were the ACTUAL disaster:
      "On 10 March 2015, a Japanese National Police Agency report confirmed 15,894 deaths,[37] 6,152 injured,[38] and 2,562 people missing[39] across twenty prefectures, as well as 228,863 people living away from their home in either temporary housing or due to permanent relocation.[40]"

      Nuclear is like anything else, it can be very dangerous when in the wrong hands. When used for power generation it might kill approximately ZERO people. When made into a bomb: "According to figures published in 1945, 66,000 people were killed as a direct result of the Hiroshima blast, and 69,000 were injured to varying degrees.[32] "

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    22. Re:I bet by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 0

      15,000 killed in one day by wave when the Fukushima plant failed. Zero by radiation. Funny how some people forget that perspective.

      Nobody cares about those 15,000 deaths because they don't serve an agenda. Many more lost their homes and neighborhoods to the tsunami and quake, but we don't see the stories about those displaced people, only the relatively few that were displaced by Fukushima. No sad documentaries about the aftermath up and down the coast. No questions as to why they sited villages in a tsunami exposed zone which, decisions which actually killed many people, but many questions why they put a nuclear plant in one, a decision that essentially harmed zero people from radiation.

      And few can tell you about Bhopal, yet they talk about Chernobyl at the drop of a hat...of course we know which one killed more people, in a much more horrible fashion.

      If there is radiation involved, it gets special treatment because the average person is ignorant to relative risk and has bought into the FUD. Even otherwise smart, insightful people post the most uniformed stuff right here on /. Its amazing what many years of campaigning can do.

    23. Re: I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And your proof for this statement is... non-existent.

      There is no scientifically sound study to support tah claim.

      If there were such a study, you would have cited it for sure.
      Even Google cannot find one.

      So take your FUD somewhere else.

    24. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back at university, we looked at the studies showing 'no statistical correlation' to cancer. To say they were BS is inaccurate ... they were incredibly well crafted to come to that result. Entire counties were included, where the 'possible' trail could have passed over

      To be fair, the increase in background levels was pretty small - less than some other areas in the US, like the appropriately named Leadville, Colorado, elevation 10K ft - then again, that place already has a higher cancer rate than the national average.

      There were a couple of other crap things pulled in the official studies: beta radiation was excluded; all cancers were counted, rather than those most commonly associated with radiation leaks.

      IF you compare the rates downwind, compared to the same group before the incident, looking at smaller subsets, like leukemia, spontaneous abortions/birth defects, then the rates increase in a statistically significant manner. Try publishing this stuff - it's pretty much know that, no matter how good your data, it will be academic/career death to even make the attempt.

    25. Re: I bet by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Military sites worldwide are responsible for the vast majority of nuclear accidents and pollution.

      Civil sites have tended to be risk-averse but military operated reactors and processing plants have always played fast and loose with protocols and safety.

    26. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its nowhere near carbon free. Enriching Uranium was for many years the single largest electrical draw in the United States. In fact, the Gaseous Diffusion plant in Kentucky, before it was shut down in 2011, was the single largest electricity consumer AND the single largest carbon dioxide producer in the United States. Look up SWU, that will tell you exactly how much energy it takes to get energy from Nuclear.

      True, there are better ways to enrich than Diffusion, but to say its Carbon Free is ridiculous. This also doesn't include the carbon footprint of mining, shipping, protecting, etc.

      Anyway, I used to be pro-nuke, spent the last several years in that industry. I finally got out this year - its a nightmare of bureaucracy and mis-management. I dont trust anyone running a Nuke plant and the fact is, as long as these things are up and running, there will be another accident. Just google Davis-Bessie.

      Yes, radiation is everywhere, but we shouldn't be adding to it.

    27. Re:I bet by doom · · Score: 2

      I still don't know what the fixation with coal is. Yes, coal is very bad..

      The "fixation" is that we use a lot of it.

      If the rest of the planet had done what France did back in the 70s, we wouldn't have a global warming problem.

    28. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for build cost. Then Solar is deployed 50 times faster and has 1/50th the cost required for 1 watt of output compared to all nuclear.

    29. Re: I bet by jnaujok · · Score: 1

      15 seconds with google -- estimates of bird deaths, especially endangered raptor species, of millions per year.

      Smallwood, 2013

      --
      Life, the Universe, and Everything... in my image.
    30. Re:I bet by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Done SAFELY, nuclear is essentially carbon-free.

      In addition to the point of the AC here, a second reason that nuclear power is not carbon-free is the massive amount of concrete used to build nuclear plants, far exceeding that of any other power generation save hydro. Cement production is a giant CO2 emitter, roughly the second largest CO2 source mankind has. And while not a lot of the annual concrete production goes into nuclear power plants, when it does, the amount is not negligible. Just doing a quick google, 200,000 tons of concrete for a nuclear plant at 180 kg CO2/ton is 36 million kg of CO2, That's ballpark 40,000 tons of CO2, and while a coal plant might dump out 100x that much annually and natural gas 50x, saying nuclear is carbon-free is very much wrong.
       
      In addition to this, there's a lot of soil disruption in mining for both cement materials and uranium, and that also releases CO2. Combined with run-off from these activities, which generally isn't well controlled, you get even more CO2 released.
       
      Nuclear is definitely better than any fossil fuel use, but not better than solar or wind in terms of CO2 generation.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    31. Re:I bet by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Can you go to Bhopal today and live there? Can you do the same at Chernobyl and Fukushima? I think the other thing that makes the tsunami seem like less of a deal than the radiation is because we created the radiation problem, the waves and tsunamis were there long before we were and are naturally made. We can still spend time on creating a remedy for the tsunamis, but we first had to create the problem with radiation leaks before we are tasked with cleaning it up. And the cleanup for sites like this is on the order of decades? Centuries? I guess one has never been completed, so can we know for sure how long it takes to clean it up?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    32. Re:I bet by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 0

      Can you go to Bhopal today and live there? Can you do the same at Chernobyl and Fukushima?

      Actually, the large majority of the Chernobyl evacuation zone is now very safe to live in. Almost all of Fukushima is safe, if you look at risk terms. Is your contention that it is OK to kill thousands of people as long as you can live there shortly after?

      Many of the people displaced by the Japan tsunami have not yet been able to return to their destroyed villages.

    33. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something like 40,000 people die in car crashes each year in the US, no one blinks.

    34. Re:I bet by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Not being able to move back because there is rubble that needs to be hauled away is very different from not being able to move back because the ground is radioactive. And you say it is safe there, and I believe you. The rain and water has probably washed most of it out to sea along with the leak under the reactor that they tried to stop with an underground ice wall. Never mind the fact that they didn't have a way to give this ice-wall prison a floor. So your land is now safe, but your sea-food is deadly. Nice trade. I don't think the ocean waves have ever poisoned entire fisheries and ecosystems before. But they seem almost the same, and radiation is invisible, so it must be safe, right?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    35. Re:I bet by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Not being able to move back because there is rubble that needs to be hauled away is very different from not being able to move back because the ground is radioactive........... But they seem almost the same, and radiation is invisible, so it must be safe, right?

      The impacts are the same in terms of human ability to live there. Radiation is different in that there is an irrational fear due to years of FUD. People aren't so scared of getting a sunburn for some crazy reason. People displaced by hydro power water reserves will never be able to return, and all the natural life in that land area was also displaced or killed. But there's that scary radiation.

      I find your 'radiation is invisible, so it must be safe" quip quite ironic, as the fact that people can't see radiation is one of the primary characteristics that allow for the FUD to take hold. But we very easily can detect and know the presence of radiation with very simple devices. You cannot see many of the other toxins you encounter on a daily basis, and there are not such easy means to detect those. But because there is not a constant stream of FUD being spread about those toxins, we generally don't worry about them.

    36. Re:I bet by Agent0013 · · Score: 2

      Are you really trying to tell me that Fukushima is not currently leaking radioactive material into the ocean. Or is it that you say that is safe? Because we chalk the deaths up under some other category where the blame is not 100% on the nuclear industry fault, we can handle any number of reactor melt-downs. They are always going to be wonderful for the environment. How many more years until the next one happens, right?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    37. Re:I bet by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      How many people died because of Three Mile Island?

      None.

      [citation needed]

    38. Re:I bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...and it is estimated that there may eventually be 4,000 extra cancer deaths among the approximately 600,000 most highly exposed people.[2][3][4]"

      This statement if easily misunderstood. This is an estimate for a lower bound. It does not include the extra cancer deaths in all other parts of the population who are *not* most highly exposed. In other words: This is the estimated number of extra cancer deaths in a small subset of the population (the highly exposed). Of course, the risk for each individual is smaller for the less exposed part of the population, but there this part is also much bigger. So a realistic estimate for the total number of excess deaths would clearly be much higher.

    39. Re:I bet by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Are you really trying to tell me that Fukushima is not currently leaking radioactive material into the ocean.

      No, I never said that. How did you read that into anything I said?

      Or is it that you say that is safe?

      I didn't say that either, but yes, the levels released into the ocean are so low they are perfectly safe.

    40. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 1

      Are you intentionally trying to be obtuse, or simply too fucking stupid to understand the question. A tsunami created by an earthquake doesn't equal electrical power generation using waves/ocean currents... it's a random fucking act of nature. Jesus, you people need to start using that mass of grey matter in your head for something other than keeping your ears apart.

      https://www.boem.gov/Ocean-Wav...

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    41. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 1

      Using wave/currents to produce energy is not the same as a fucking tsunami. People care about those deaths, but only really fucking stupid people think wave energy https://www.boem.gov/Ocean-Wav... and tsunami are the same thing.

      Are you simply trying to distract from the conversation by bringing up other disasters? Bhopal had nothing to do with energy production, via wave, solar, wind, or nuclear. Maybe we could bring up the 2004 tsunami in SE Asia too? I mean, it at least has the word "wave" involved in it.... and if you're really fucking stupid, you might conflate that with the production of energy via wave/current... but you'd have to be really fucking stupid to do that...again...

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    42. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 1

      And? Hydro-electric dams are not wind, solar, or wave. Hydro energy production is about on par with solar, wind and thermal (our wave energy production is basically nil) as of 2008, the difference in them being: solar and wind are growing, fast... hydro not so much. Wave....well...we have a huge amount of available area's for it, and apparently no balls to actually do it. It's like a lot of things currently, we've ceded it to some other country because we have idiots in charge, and too many people thinking that being smart is somehow a bad thing.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    43. Re:I bet by quenda · · Score: 1

      Are you deliberately trying to sound stupid by inappropriate use of the work "fucking", you shit-eating cunt-faced Trump-voter?

      Its called context. Few have died from solar, wind, waves, or nuclear energy. Twice nothing is nothing.
        Large-scale fatalities have occurred from coal and hydroelectric.

      Look at numbers per GW.hr, and don't forget the effects of coal smog, acid rain, and global warming.

    44. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 1

      15,000 killed in one day by wave when the Fukushima plant failed.

      It is called context.

      Not a single fucking person died at Fukushima because of an accident in the wave energy production industry. Pompeii wasn't an accident in the geothermal industry, hurricane Katrina wasn't an accident in the wind energy industry, and the Carrington Event wasn't an accident in the solar energy industry.... and a fucking tsunami isn't an accident in the wave energy industry, no matter how much of a fucking imbecile you are. YOU are the dipshit that said it.

      As for grab-them-by-the-pussy-Trump, fuck him and all the anti-American, anti-christain, fascist neo-nazi pieces of shit that voted for him.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    45. Re:I bet by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I didn't say anything about wave energy. And I see you don't dispute any of my points, what you do is respond to facts you evidently don't like by calling me names.

    46. Re:I bet by Chas · · Score: 1

      1: Since when was Chernobyl the US nuclear industry's fault? Chernobyl was a bunch of Russian idiots playing with a reactor.
      2: When was Fukushima the US nuclear industry's fault. Fukushima was a bunch of cheapshits at TEPCO IGNORING engineering recommendations to make the sea wall higher so the site wouldn't get flooded out.

      3: There's no such thing as "clean" power. All forms of power have some form of byproduct. The one that's the biggest concern today is CO2, because of AGW concerns. Sure, building a nuclear facility puts some CO2 into the environment. Building ANY type of power facility puts CO2 out. But the nuclear facility itself is essentially carbon neutral once it begins generating power.

      4: NO a switchover to a safer design wouldn't "already have been done". Because it undermines the current reactor business model.

      5: Yes, an MSR DOES burn it's fuel. You don't pull the fuel from the reactor unless you're decommissioning or servicing it. You only pull byproducts.

      6: No, they pull fuel rods at that point because the casing on the rods break down over time. They swell and crack and you cannot leave them in the reactor. So they're generally pulled before that point. As getting fuel rods stuck in a reactor vessel is a Bad Thing.

      7: The article you link to is talking about a uranium-based SOLID FUEL REACTOR. MSR thermal spectrum reactors running on Thorium are not directly comparable to solid fuel fast spectrum reactors running on Uranium.

      Please try to continue this conversation when you know what you're talking about.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    47. Re:I bet by Chas · · Score: 1

      And, even if I were talking about continuing with solid fuel reactors.

      If all the primary power generation comes from nuclear power, how much CO2 is put into the air enriching uranium?

      Luckily I'm not talking about solid fuel reactors. They need to go away. They're too much of a Rube Goldberg Machine in terms of safety. When 10% of the total facility is the reactor and the other 90% is the safety systems, something's out of whack.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    48. Re:I bet by Chas · · Score: 1

      Pretty much ALL types of power facilities have carbon costs in building them.
      Wind and solar might offset sooner.
      But, in terms of power density, a nuclear plant will generally deliver far more power over it's lifetime in terms of offset.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    49. Re:I bet by Chas · · Score: 1
      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    50. Re:I bet by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but those are not direct and immediate deaths. If anything it would be reduced lifespans for those exposed. Could be a few years on some, could be a decade or two on some. This is not even close to the same as a direct death from an accident.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    51. Re:I bet by meglon · · Score: 1

      ...and yet the thread was about deaths in energy production industries....

      Take a hint... learn to read.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    52. Re:I bet by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I have just read your post and it has no point.

  4. And what superpowers did they get? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    X-ray vision's not as appealing as it was in the 1950s because there are so many obese American women now, so they should probably hope for the ability to keep over tall buildings instead.

    1. Re:And what superpowers did they get? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I inhaled plutonium and all I got was a detachable penis.

    2. Re: And what superpowers did they get? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You millennials with your gender issues....

    3. Re:And what superpowers did they get? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep mine in the medicine cabinet most of the time.

  5. Not on /. by rmdingler · · Score: 2

    Twelve people out of 65 is 20 percent.

    18.5%, if you round up, mathlete.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Not on /. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Rounding percentages on workers whose lives are threatened, meh, 20% or less easy to replace. I also really like this bit of PR twaddle, "the person with a does of one millirem would receive a dose less than a tenth of a standard xray", there not so bad, but fuckers, they are having that 1/10th xray every second of everyday for the rest of their expected to be fairly short lives. They had alarms where they expected there might be exposure, then why the fuck were they not in suits with contained air, oh I know, to expensive and lost productivity and likely only a small percentage would die of cancer, and out lawyers could fight them off, that plutonium in their lungs could have come from anywhere. Exposed suckers report to our contamination expert and be prepared to be fobbed off and warned about out lawyers. Exposed workers with a brain, report to your union, your doctor and your lawyer (suckers without a union are in deep trouble because the companies lawyers are preparing to attack you).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  6. "an anonymous reader"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How likely is it that this anonymous reader is mdsolar?

    1. Re:"an anonymous reader"? by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      0.184615385, but never tell me the odds.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

  7. Level of Exposure? by alvinrod · · Score: 2

    The summary and the articles leave out some pretty important information. How much radiation were workers exposed to?

    There's one part where CH2M Hill claimed less than you would receive during a chest x-ray, but then it quotes someone else who claims that claim is BS.

    1. Re:Level of Exposure? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The summary and the articles leave out some pretty important information. How much radiation were workers exposed to?

      If they inhaled particles, some of the particles still may be in their bodies, and they're still being exposed.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Level of Exposure? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Plutonium's a heavy metal. It's also quite chemically active. Probably most of what they inhaled that wasn't exhaled in the next breath will stay with them for life.

      I'm no expert, but if that isn't true, I'd like to know the mechanism.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re:Level of Exposure? by hey! · · Score: 1

      The problem is that "how much exposure" may not be the right question.

      The plutonium was inhaled. Which means we're now talking about chemistry and physiology, not just physics. Inhalation is not like getting irradiated from an external source, the exact chemical form of plutonium (oxide? nitrate?) makes a difference because it determines where it goes. Is it excreted? Does it stay in the lungs? Does it migrate somewhere else?

      So it's not easy to come up with a single number which characterizes the seriousness of inhaled plutonium, because it's not just the intensity of the radiation that matters, it's the exact places it goes in the body and how long it stays there.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Level of Exposure? by dbIII · · Score: 2

      That's not so trivial to measure as with x-rays, gamma rays etc and one of the reasons Putin's guys used another alpha particle emitter, Polonium, as a difficult to detect poison.
      Any amount ingested/inhaled is considered unsafe and the idea is to get it out before it's been in there so long. Then it's the cancer lottery - was there enough damage while it was in there for only a tiny chance or certain cancer?

    5. Re:Level of Exposure? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      Plutonium migrates into the bone marrow.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:Level of Exposure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are ways of figuring out the risk due to this kind of exposure, but they really need estimates of the amount entered the body (some was inhaled, some probably also was ingested) and it looks like they are still making those measurements.

      As a few others mentioned, having the source inside the body completely changes the risk; plutonium decays into uranium 235 (the long lived and relatively safe isotope) by emitting an alpha particle. Alphas are strongly ionizing (i.e. causes damage) but this usually isn't issue since alpha particles have a very low penetration depth. For external sources of radiation, alpha particles won't penetrate your skin or even the surface of your eye. However, inside the body alpha emissions can cause dna damage, especially when the emitter is concentrated into a single sensitive organ.

    7. Re:Level of Exposure? by Orgasmatron · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right now, the final dose evaluation for the first 65 bioassays show a small number of employees with a dose of less than or equal to 1 millirem. Internal exposures are doses that are measured in millirem the person is expected to receive over the span of 50 years.

      For context, CH2M has an administrative dose limit of 500 millirem per year, which are well below the legal limits of 5,000 millirem per year. The results received show a very low internal contamination dose that is significantly less than a typical chest x-ray.

      Up to 1 millirem over the next 50 years. This is essentially the lower cutoff of the test being used. It means that it is enough that the test can detect that something is there, but not so much that it can be quantified. With sensitive gear, you could get that result from a nanorem-range emitter. Or, from a 500 microrem emitter.

      Basically, if you add up all of the radiation dose received by one of the "contaminated" people for the rest of their life, it is 0.2% of the company's annual limit, or 0.02% of the regulatory annual exposure limit. Oh, and the regulatory exposure limit has a lot of safety margin built in, according to the medical data.

      Basically, this story's headline should be "Holy shit, we've got amazing technology for detecting tiny traces of radioactivity."

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    8. Re:Level of Exposure? by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except you failed at physics of how the different types of radiation work. We are dealing with an internal alpha source, not an external alpha source. Alpha sources are 1000 times more dangerous when inhaled or ingested (1000 times is not a made up number, this has been experimentally shown, see "Effect of Dose Rate on the Induction of Experimental Lung Cancer in Hamsters by Alpha Radiation" 1985 study).

      The reason is quite simple, alpha radiation has extremely poor penetration capability (2-3 layers of paper is enough to stop it, which is less than the layers of dead skin cells we have on top of our actual skin). As a result, external alpha sources are not very dangerous. But put that source inside the body, where it is past the dead skin that protects you, and suddenly, you have a cancer generator sitting right next to cells that it can reach.

      Given that this was Hanford, it was most likely Pu-239 that we are dealing with, which has a half-life of 24,100 years. The only way it will exit the body once ingested or inhaled is if it manages to be coughed up (unlikely), or absorbed into the blood stream/lymphic system and manage to travel out as excrement without getting trapped in say the liver, kidneys, lymph nodes, or any of the other pathways within the body (at which point it will then most likely cause enough DNA damage to surrounding cells to create cancer).

      --
      We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    9. Re:Level of Exposure? by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      Don't you think it would have been a good idea to find out the difference between a rad and a rem before you typed that all out?

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    10. Re:Level of Exposure? by Chas · · Score: 1

      No way man! Nuclear = EVIL! So anything he says will be okay!

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    11. Re: Level of Exposure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      REM is a unit of absorbed dose, the fact that this is ingested alpha radiation is already factored in to those numbers. Which is why I get the feeling very few people here know what they're talking about.

    12. Re:Level of Exposure? by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Weapons plutonium isn't very radioactive (as in - slightly, but not as much as you'd think) - which is why it has such a long halflife.

      Some isotopes are more radioactive (and hence have shorter halflives), but you don't want these in a nuke as they cause premature detonation or a fizzle.

      Given this is Hanford, the odds are good that the plutonium involved is the former type, not the latter.

    13. Re:Level of Exposure? by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      The odds of cancer being generated from alpha emission is slim to almost nonexistent. The typical reaction of a cell hit by alphas is to _die_ and if it doesn't, it will probably be killed by its neighbours.

      Polonium-as-a-poison works by exposing someone to high enough doses that large numbers of body cells are killed - it's straight out radiation poisoning, not cancer. That's a dose thousands, if not millions of times higher than the amounts found in a smoker's lungs.

      Nuclear radiation doesn't guarantee cancer. If you survive a high dose (and the resulting temporary shutdown of the immune system) then there's a good chance nothing will happen. The increase in the rate of cancers in Hiroshima/Nagasaki blast survivors was less than 2%, as a for-instance.

    14. Re:Level of Exposure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh man. Here it goes again.

      Radiation is an electromagnetic emanation. The inhalation of particles is a completely different matter. Different health model and everything. Most likely the immediate electromagnetic emanations experienced by the workers were not noteworthy. The inhalation of plutonium is noteworthy. and should not be diminished or sidelined by unscrupulous trolls trying to obfuscate the issue with nonsense.

    15. Re:Level of Exposure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (From memory, the biological half-life of Pu in humans is ~a century. In other words, you keep pretty much all of the plutonium you get until you die.)

    16. Re:Level of Exposure? by wagnerer · · Score: 1

      The mucus in the lungs will capture a lot and the cilia will transport it up to the throat where it will be swallowed. Most of that will then transport through the digestive system and excreted. Some will be taken up by the body and at that point you have the various blood filters like the kidneys and liver capturing some and excreting it. The efficiencies of the various mechanisms will vary based on the chemical state of the Pu as inhaled and as its processed in the digestive system.

    17. Re:Level of Exposure? by wagnerer · · Score: 1

      After 40 years that biological half-life would have removed > 24% of the Pu. Wouldn't be surprised if the life expectancy of the workers was at least 40 years. Losing a quarter of something isn't quite the same as keeping 'pretty much all of' it.

    18. Re:Level of Exposure? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      What you say is true of a non-reactive dust, like, say coal. But Plutonium is supposed to have a strong affinity for tissue that tends to lead it to lodge in the bones. So I don't think the kidneys and liver would excrete much. I suppose being a *heavy* metal wouldn't impair the actions of the mucus/cilia much, but I believe it would result in extensive absorption in the intestines.

      If you are an expert in the field, then I apologize, for being so dubious about your explanation, as it *could* happen that way. It just don't think it would. OTOH, the prior reports I heard ("Immediate high amputation is the only possible treatment!") did have to do with larger particles lodging under the skin.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  8. Whole body scan is needed by bfmorgan · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    These workers that have been identified as possibly exposed should have a "Whole body scan" that will be the gold standard. My prayers go out to them and their families.

    --
    I hope this caused some synapses to fire.
    1. Re:Whole body scan is needed by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      These workers that have been identified as possibly exposed should have a "Whole body scan" that will be the gold standard. My prayers go out to them and their families.

      One reactor that melted in Japan was being used for nuclear reduction - unenriched Uranium mixed with plutonium.

    2. Re:Whole body scan is needed by wagnerer · · Score: 1

      Not effective with internal alpha contamination. The radiation can't escape the body since alphas interact so strongly with matter and their energy is completely absorbed. At this point you need to do measurements of excreta. Hopefully it'll be at the undetectable levels.

  9. Think of the down winders! by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    That would be me and three cities, Hanford is next door to us. Local Paper on event http://www.tri-cityherald.com/...

    1. Re:Think of the down winders! by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Where do you get your water? One reason for the cleanup is that it started leaking into the water. (They may have caught this almost immediately, I read the story a few years ago, but that was what finally convinced them to do the cleanup.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:Think of the down winders! by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      Where do you get your water? One reason for the cleanup is that it started leaking into the water. (They may have caught this almost immediately, I read the story a few years ago, but that was what finally convinced them to do the cleanup.)

      The clean up is the closure of Hanford, water leaking may have accelerated the process. It's a very large "Production area". extrusion for fuel production, to the Reactors, to the Plutonium Finishing Plant. They have been at it for many years now and still good work (salary wise) if you can get it.

      All of the decomissioned reactors were cleaned up and "moth balled" or buried as can be seen with Google Earth. They lined the river, the one with a steam plant and off to the side moved earth is where the reactor I operated was buried.

  10. Re:12/65 is 18.5% not 20% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The margin of error at that sample size is larger than the difference you're complaining about.

  11. "...Inhaled Radioactive Plutonium" by sid+crimson · · Score: 1

    "Radioactive" Plutonium?
    Is there any other kind?

    1. Re:"...Inhaled Radioactive Plutonium" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Is there any other kind?"

      Well, there's the Pu-36, that goes into the Explosive Space Modulator. When not inserted, it is quite harmless. It's got Electrolytes.

      (This is a decades long joke by Seaborg, who nicknamed Plutonium "Pee U", from the Latin "Puteo", which means "It Stinks". He was expecting to be overruled, expecting "Pl" instead, since "Pt" was already taken by Platinum. However his original suggestion stuck. When it came to naming his own Element, Seaborgium, "S" was taken by Sulfur, "Se" was taken by Selenium, and "Sb" was used for Antimony, "Sr" for Strontium... "Sg" was chosen for "Seaborg, Glenn". This is a new convention in Naming. But when it comes to "Ghiorsium" we run into more problems:
      "Ag" and "Ga" have been taken. Al would be comfortable with calling it just "Al", but then there is that pesky Aluminum. So "Gh" has been tentatively chosen. But then we get back to joke names, because Al's actual choice for for naming this yet-to-be-discovered Element is "Ghastlium".
      Yes, we're a _lot_ of fun at Parties. After all, "Jello Shots" were invented at Los Alamos, and "Berkeley Punch" was 50% Hawaiian Punch and 50% 190 Proof Ethanol.)

  12. The industrial accident is tragic but ... by dbIII · · Score: 3, Informative

    The industrial accident is tragic but the "spin" is worse because it can lead to poor precautions and more accidents.
    The point here is not about using nukes or not (the stuff exists and has to be dealt with), it's about the lying sacks of shit who hurt everyone by doing so - even their own cause.

    Nuke fanboys, if you want to know why we don't have reactors everywhere it's due to these lying sacks of shit making it so an entire industry is not trusted and not the powerless hippies you keep blaming.

    1. Re:The industrial accident is tragic but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nuke fanboys don't like to read, so here is the movie.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWYL3s7SfWQ

    2. Re: The industrial accident is tragic but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lawyers and their cronies... bringing us the opposite epidemic, the vaxxer movement, the idea that your car can somehow go haywire and rapidly accelerate and so much more... if they ever do a show about disasters caused by lawyers and treat them the way that engineers treat our screw ups... wait, they'd be sued out of existence before production begins.

    3. Re: The industrial accident is tragic but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Supposed to be opioid epidemic.... based on the theory that doctors had a moral obligation to treat pain as a vital sign. Blame the dug companies all you want, the lawyers sued any doctor without a loose prescription pad out of existence.

    4. Re:The industrial accident is tragic but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...lying sacks of shit making it so an entire industry is not trusted and not the powerless hippies you keep blaming.

      Unlike the coal industry.

  13. Dixy Lee Ray - Political Patsy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you haven't looked at Wikipedia's "Hanford Site" page, you are in for an education.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site

    But before you do, be aware that Dixy Lee Ray and the Washington state voters that elected her bear much responsibility for the environmental tragedy at the site. Her credentials as a "scientist" were used to appoint her to the position of Chair of the Atomic Energy Commission. That was followed by a stint as Assistant Secretary of State for Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs. Finally she was elected governor of Washington.

    This "scientist" advocated dumping highly radioactive waste in the sea, and dismissed any need to clean up the radioactive Hanford Site. As you might expect, she was also an early climate change denier.

    1. Re: Dixy Lee Ray - Political Patsy by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      If you haven't looked at Wikipedia's "Hanford Site" page, you are in for an education.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      >

      This started the concern of the reactors in this area, not so much the isotopes but the heat plumes.
      "A huge volume of water from the Columbia River was required to dissipate the heat produced by Hanford's nuclear reactors. From 1944 to 1971, pump systems drew cooling water from the river and, after treating this water for use by the reactors, returned it to the river. Before its release into the river, the used water was held in large tanks known as retention basins for up to six hours. Longer-lived isotopes were not affected by this retention, and several terabecquerels entered the river every day. "

  14. Could be worse by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    If you're going to get a dose, there are a lot worse ways it could happen. The only thing to watch is a whole lung exposure might be low but the pulmonary macrophage in your lungs concentrate the dose as they clean up the particulates.

    I've been in those buildings and worked on that cleanup. Compared to some of the routine doses workers used to get in the old days that wasn't all that large. If you adjust the cancer rate for age, Hanford workers have a lower cancer rate than the broader population.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Could be worse by Orgasmatron · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, no! This is an official Mdsolar Anti-Nuke Story(tm). You are not allowed to bring facts or data into the discussion. You are not allowed to mention hormesis. You must bow down before LNT. You must, like the doctors in the article, speak in vague generalities - "Well gosh, radiation is invisible and scary. Forget the data, anything at all could happen if you get some in your body!"

      I've come to recognize that Nuclear Derangement Syndrome was a practice run. The symptoms are identical to the new trendy disease: Trump Derangement Syndrome.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
  15. Stupid title - All Plutonium is radioactive by Lady+Galadriel · · Score: 1

    The title should have read;

    Tests Show Workers At Hanford Nuclear Facility Inhaled Plutonium, (which is Radioactive)

    There is no non-radioactive plutonium. (Just gota love double negatives!) In someways, it should have listed the exact isotope, like Pu-239. Some plutonium isotopes produce difference levels of radiation, like Pu-238. That's used in RTGs, nuclear batteries. Though to be fair, I have no clue which isotope, (if any), is less bad to breath.

    --
    Lady Galadriel
    1. Re:Stupid title - All Plutonium is radioactive by piojo · · Score: 1

      I think the grammar is meant to be like the phrase, "news about laptop manufacturer Lenovo"--it's a description, not a specifier.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
  16. The tests have already been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By US researchers on "baboons" (humans in other countries). I guess the good news is that these people will have good data to pull from for expected results.

  17. Another Great CH2M Job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Folks in Austin know about CH2M. They was supposed to finish adding an extra lane to MOPAC by August, 2015. In February 2016, they said it would definitely be done by the end of 2016. It's still not done, and they have dumped the project onto a subcontractor.

  18. Obvious solution! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Clearly we should just impose harsh discipline on the affected workers for knowingly stealing hazardous nuclear materials from their job site.

    Won't actually solve any problems; but should reduce the number of reports of problems.

    1. Re:Obvious solution! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you from North Korea?

  19. After Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  20. Too bad. Still better than coal. by piojo · · Score: 1

    That's too bad. But even if those twelve people all die, it will be fewer than those that are killed by coal. According to one study, a single coal power plant kills more people in one week. And dying due to lung disease is a shitty way to go. Wikipedia on mortality associated with coal power plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    1. Re:Too bad. Still better than coal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  21. Nuke fanboy? No, nukes are lesser evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do not support nuclear but if global warming is indeed a threat (article just yesterday about dangerous wet bulb temperatures coming to SE Asia, millions could die) it seems like the lesser evil.

  22. CH2M Hill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not surprised at all to see them at the center of this mess. Having had the misfortune of working for them, I've formed the opinion that corner cutting, gross neglect, and utter disregard for the well-being of its workers is so ingrained in the company culture that it may as well be official policy.

  23. Pu is excreted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a small group of people who are members of the IPPu Club; the government has them send in urine samples for monitoring.

    None had died of cancer, last I read.

    1. Re:Pu is excreted... by wagnerer · · Score: 1

      I did a calculation several years back based on environmental levels of Plutonium and it came out to a few million atoms of Pu are passed every time you go to the bathroom. It's all in the dosage. Essentially everybody is contaminated from the above ground nuclear bomb testing days.

  24. Plutonioum is toxic at 8 ppb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow. Bad.

    Someone should set up funds. Those guys are going to die. Their wives and kids will have to pay for funerals and burials.

    1. Re: Plutonioum is toxic at 8 ppb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, guaranteed they will die. But not necessarilly from plutonium. You're on the list too.

    2. Re:Plutonioum is toxic at 8 ppb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of a Kickstarter, we could have a Kick-the-bucket starter.

  25. The government wouldn't lie... by midifarm · · Score: 1

    would they?

  26. inhaling plutonium particles - death sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep - prepare for lung cancer - all they can hope is that the employees were elderly, and die of something else first.

    Pu is an alpha emitter so shielding is easy, but get it inside your lungs, and it's one of the most effective carcinogens out there. Some significant number of smoking caused lung cancer is because when you inhale the smoke, the smoke particles carry radon and similar materials deep into your lungs.

    Heavy metal toxicity isn't as big a deal.

  27. Remember, slashdot says radiation is good for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After the nuclear powerplant disaster in Japan, Slashdot, following US government protocols for manipulating public opinion, ran stories that lied about the extent of the disaster, lied about the risk, and one actually claimed radiation from such disasters was actually 'beneficial' to Human Health.

    Yes you read that correctly- slashdot claimed ionising radiation was good for you.

    Sick, evil and standard practice by the owners of slashdot. Like how the mainstream media is filled with outrage at venezuela, yet complete fails to find fault with America's no.1 ally- the infinitely evil regime of Saudi Arabia. Clinton claims to love gay people- yet she loves the regime of saudi Arabia far more. How very very curious. Clinton claims to support women's rights- yet Clinton claims Saudi Arabia must be protected against all censure in the UN, and allowed to head the UN commitee on Women's Rights. How very very curious.

    Slashdot lying. Clinton Lying. Slashdot and Clinton lovers claiming to be leftwing, liberal and enlightened.

    I know why slashdot lies and pushes Clinton propaganda agendas. I know why Clinton lies. What I don't get is why YOU believe in either?

    PS once went to a lecture by an expert in the effects of low levels of radiation. He said that when govenments could get away with it, they all claimed that below a certain dose radiation was completely 'safe'- which led to dreadful abuses through to the 1970s. In reality radiation is like being shot at by a gun from a distance. Every bullet could kill or maim- but the liklihood tracks the number of bullets shot. But in the 50s and 60s this obvious analogy and trivial example of why any level of radiation carries a risk was denied by mainstream media outlets that were the equavletn of slashdot at the time.Do you like being lied to by people who know they are lying, but do so for money or to meet government propaganda agendas?

  28. Re:Remember, slashdot says radiation is good for y by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Show the links, or it never happened.

  29. Yeah, they just died of cancer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So it wasn't 3mile island at all. Just normal everyday cancer...

    But those people dying falling off a scaffold building a solar panel? Totes the fault of solar power.

  30. Radioactive Plutonium?! by allo · · Score: 1

    Radioactive Plutonium?!
    You don't say!

    Ever seen non-radioactive plutonium?