Slashdot Mirror


Can Primordial Black Holes Alone Account For Dark Matter?

thomst writes: Slashdot stories have reported extensively on the LIGO experiments' initial detection of gravity waves emanating from collisions of primordial black holes, beginning, on February 11, 2016, with the first (and most widely-reported) such detection. Other Slashdot articles have chronicled the second LIGO detection event and the third one. There's even been a Slashdot report on the Synthetic Universe supercomputer model that provided support for the conclusion that the first detection event was, indeed, of a collision between two primordial black holes, rather than the more familiar stellar remnant kind that result from more recent supernovae of large-mass stars.

What interests me is the possibility that black holes of all kinds -- and particularly primordial black holes -- are so commonplace that they may be all that's required to explain the effects of "dark matter." Dark matter, which, according to current models, makes up some 26% of the mass of our Universe, has been firmly established as real, both by calculation of the gravity necessary to hold spiral galaxies like our own together, and by direct observation of gravitational lensing effects produced by the "empty" space between recently-collided galaxies. There's no question that it exists. What is unknown, at this point, is what exactly it consists of.

The leading candidate has, for decades, been something called WIMPs (Weakly-Interacting Massive Particles), a theoretical notion that there are atomic-scale particles that interact with "normal" baryonic matter only via gravity. The problem with WIMPs is that, thus far, not a single one has been detected, despite years of searching for evidence that they exist via multiple, multi-billion-dollar detectors.

With the recent publication of a study of black hole populations in our galaxy (article paywalled, more layman-friendly press release at Phys.org) that indicates there may be as many as 100 million stellar-remnant-type black holes in the Milky Way alone, the question arises, "Is the number of primordial and stellar-remnant black holes in our Universe sufficient to account for the calculated mass of dark matter, without having to invoke WIMPs at all?"

I don't personally have the mathematical knowledge to even begin to answer that question, but I'm curious to find out what the professional cosmologists here think of the idea.

6 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. Or maybe, just maybe... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Interesting

    26% of the mass of the universe is made up of your simplifying assumptions: space is flat and uniform everywhere and everywhen, gravity is constant everywhere and everywhen, the speed of light is constant everywhere and everywhen, the Higgs field isn't really the luminiferous aether with a fancy new name, etc. ...

    So so so much of the Standard Model (and astrophysics in general) starts out like "Given a spherical cow of uniform density at STP...".

    We can basically derive ALL of chemistry from first principles involving (protons, neutrons, electrons) (and their charges), electron shell configurations, etc. Does the Standard Model provide an explanation for the mass of the electron, or any of the other 92 empirically derived "constants" that make up the current orthodoxy? Does calling the gap between reality and our understanding of it really benefit from calling it "Dark Matter", or "Dark Energy", or should we just call it "phlogiston"?

    I'm not trolling, I'm serious. The Standard Model has lots of (statistical) predictive power, but absolutely no explanitory power -- back to the chemistry example, it's as though we have atomic weights and molar values, but no notion of electron shells -- we can predict, but we can't explain, at least not in a meaningful way -- yet.

    1. Re:Or maybe, just maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, not that many simplifications. Actually, many people try out many different things to see if your experimental observations are affected by the underlying theory you are basing your assumptions.

      I want to point out some contradiction in your message:
      - On one hand, you criticize the standard model for its high number of parameters (19, I believe that is the number, actually). And it is a fair criticism, you would like your theory to predict nature with the least number of empirical parameters. If every time you discover something new, you add a parameter, you can describe nature, but you can not make any predictions.
      - On the other hand you call for more complicated theories, because the ones we have are too 'simplified'. Every time you do that, most likely you are adding a parameter to your theory to account for the greater freedom a complicated theory has. So, you are going backwards.

      As the theory stands, it is quite predictive, and i find it amusingly incredible that a theory as simple as the one we have works so well (If you look at the Lagrangian formulation of General Relativity, which is a very simple way to postulate a theory, General Relativity is the most simple thing you can do). However, it is not perfect. Perhaps the observations we do not understand will give us the key for a better theory (perhaps the one that unifies gravity with the rest of the foreces).

      Personally, I would not call Dark Matter to be a fact. There is no direct proof of its existence and it has its fair share of problems (not every DM candidate solves every problem, although you can have different populations of DM particles). There are also other theories that try to explain most of these unexplained observations (MOND, and some modified gravity theories, like TeVeS, which implement MOND ideas in a covariant way), but those probably have more problems than DM.

    2. Re:Or maybe, just maybe... by Ramze · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's the thing with (supposedly) fundamental particles -- you can't explain them in terms of something else... because then they wouldn't be fundamental. If you're talking about why they have certain properties -- like why there are 3 generations of matter (separated only by mass) and why they have the masses that we measure (as opposed to some other mass), maybe one day when we find a way to merge gravity with the standard model and/or figure out why the Higgs mechanism gives different masses to different particles, we'll find out.

      But, if you mean you want to have explanations for things like "charge," "spin," "color charge," and why only certain ones exist -- we may never know. If they're fundamental properties, there may not be any real explanation other than "they just are." That's the universe we appear to live in.

      String theory and some other interesting quantum theories are trying to explain deeper meanings and use expected symmetries to figure out missing particles and new physics... and they helped to tease out the Higgs Boson and its field to explain why all fundamental particles don't move at the speed of light. There may be more than one Higgs field & that may explain more if we find it. If there are hidden, curled up dimensions, we may be able to explain all the properties of particles in terms of vibrating strings or membranes in higher dimensions, but until string theorists can decide on what the shape of those curled up dimensions might be for our universe, they can't help much with predictions, much less explanations. Trouble is, there are a heck of a lot of possibilities for those curled up dimensions, and there aren't a lot of ways to discern which ones match our known universe yet. Sure, they can whittle them down to a subset that matches known properties of the universe, but that leaves a massive subset to eliminate false positives from.

      I'd say string theory is your best bet for explaining why things are as they are one day... but it may be that some things just are, and that's as fundamental as they get -- at least as far as we can tell from experimental data from within the universe. Anything deeper is speculation or philosophy -- unless it can fit the math perfectly and explain things other models can't. For instance, we've never directly observed quarks, but we've been able to indirectly observe them and figure out their properties from subatomic collisions. At one time, people debated if they really existed or if they just helped the math work... but physicists generally agree they exist today. Maybe we'll find something more fundamental in time that will explain more. My bet is on strings, but... who knows?

  2. Gravitational lensing by jfdavis668 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Astronomers have observed the gravitational lens effect of dark matter. Dark matter normally surrounds normal matter, but is sometimes found separated. It appears that during galactic collisions, the dark matter can be separated from the normal matter, gas and dust of a galaxy. To do that, dark matter would have to interact with itself in a manner that does not involve gravity. A bunch of black holes would not interact in this way, so it is unlikely that dark matter consists solely of black holes.

  3. Re:No by careysub · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is annoying having lazy clueless laymen's idle speculations being promoted to being a slashdot article.

    Dark matter seems particularly to attract these sorts of totally uninformed wild guesses being thrown out to "solve" one of the deepest questions in modern physics and cosmology.

    To all and sundry out there - if you just thought of it then the answer is "no". All possible known candidates have been thought of and eliminated. Whatever dark matter and dark energy are, it is nothing we currently understand. Even most promising theories seem to be failing at present.

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  4. Re:I think no, not that simple by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But why would the black holes be distributed significantly differently than stars, and have "outer" orbits?

    Most visible stars are caused by relatively recent compressions and/or concentrations of gas, and the concentration is heavier toward the center of a galaxy. Thus, relatively speaking, there could be more black holes outside the visible disk of a galaxy than stars.

    But this would also imply the majority of black holes did not form from stars, at least not in the way we see them form now. If the black-holes formed from typical stars, their distribution (galactic orbits) would be roughly the same as visible stars.

    The theory they formed in the primordial ooze that was common before most galaxies formed may account for this: their galactic orbits would then be further out than most galaxy-born stars. Such holes would eventually be captured by galaxies but would on average have outer orbits, as gravity-captured objects tend to. This could give the "hidden heavy halo" effect seen in Hubble gravity lensing and star-orbit patterns.