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'Best of' Lists Are the Worst (theoutline.com)

Posted by msmash on from the what-do-you-think dept.

Ann-Derrick Gaillot, a writer at The Outline, shares thoughts on listicles about best products in a genre. From the article: National websites with armies of writers are churning out best lists left and right, motivated by affiliate advertising more than the desire to share an opinion. Thanks to them all, I've gotten to try all the bests: just-ok restaurants, ineffective beauty products, slippers I guard with my life. [...] Articles claiming that something is the "best" should be rare, eyed with suspicion by the ever suspicious consumer. But they're not. I would have probably been alarmed to not find at least one article telling me where to find the best desk (wherever it still is). But with the race to find the best at the heart of so much media we consume today, such articles can only be trusted if they come from an established outlet with legitimacy, the same institutions that are slow and struggle to add marginalized people to their ranks.

84 comments

  1. o rly ? by penandpaper · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here is our best list of reasons why best of lists are the worst!

    1. Re:o rly ? by thsths · · Score: 2

      Yes, and this is why Slashdot is even worse than best of lists.

  2. advertising in disguise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Many of these lists are simply paid advertising in disguise. Fake news, so to speak.

    1. Re:advertising in disguise by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Many of these lists are simply paid advertising in disguise.

      Sure, but these lists can still be useful. Obviously #1 paid to be there. But #2 and #3 may not have, and may be pretty good if they were placed high to give the list legitimacy. And #9 and #10 are the products that #1 sees as their biggest threats so you should look into those as well.

      Even if you mistrust the list entirely, you still have a list of ten products that you can use for further research.

  3. the problem by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 2

    The problem is that doing an ACTUAL best-of list is time consuming, difficult, and above all expensive.

    Wirecutter is an incredible site, because they are one of the few that actually does proper analysis of the things they are comparing. Think about how expensive and time consuming it is for a site to buy a bunch of the same type of product and actually draw meaningful conclusions from using a dozen of them side by side.

    1. Re:the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do that with women all the time.

    2. Re:the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the websites do reviews of products as they come out the article shouldn't be any more expensive than reviewing and comparing previously collected data. If their best-of list doesn't link to their "full review" of each of the products that means they probably went to amazon and took the 10 highest reviewed items and summarized the marketing spiel.

    3. Re:the problem by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 2

      Even a site which does domain-specific reviews will likely not be able to put together an accurate side-by-side comparison because most of the products they review are likely lent to them by the manufacturer.

      To me, that kind of best-of list is only slightly better than the sites that just regurgitate amazon reviews, because when I'm looking for "best of", it's usually going to be something where there is a qualitative difference that you have to experience all of them together to kind of get a feel for. Headphones are a great example.

      Like what does a retrospective "best smartphones" list even do for me other than describe features to me that I could otherwise analyze in the Amazon description? Qualitative aspects like display and camera quality, or speaker quality are only possible with a side by side comparison.

      In other cases (i.e., when the functionality of the product is basically commoditized), my concern is usually reliability and durability, which a best of list will rarely/never account for. The best you can do is play the numbers game with amazon reviews.

      There are cases where this type of model works very well though. SmallNetBuilder is an example of product reviews that are so quantitative that it is very easy to put together a dynamic list that literally always gives you the products that are the best at a certain metric.

    4. Re:the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "best-of" lists shouldn't need an in-depth comparison of products - that's something for the full reviews. "Best-of" lists exist to give the novice consumer a starting point in their research, if you give them too much information it's just noise. Each entry in a best-of list should either fill different use-cases or different budget ranges. The $PRODUCT aficionado should never want to read the best-of lists because they've been following releases all along, these lists only exist because when asked "I'm looking for my first $PRODUCT, which one is the best?" the aficionados unhelpfully reply "There isn't a single BEST" without understanding that they're really just being asked for a good newb $PRODUCT.

    5. Re:the problem by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The Wirecutter is good at sounding like it properly evaluated the products, but I don't think it really does. Any the advice is all too often "buy the expensive one" when it's not really the best.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:the problem by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 2

      Not the experience I've had TBH. They describe their test methodology as usually involving several people that test and rate sometimes dozens of different products for a variety of metrics, and usually the main author has some sort of background that qualifies them as knowing what they're talking about.

      Most recently, I heeded their recommendation that the AKG Y20U is one of the most well-rounded pair of earbuds under $50. Did not disappoint, and that's coming from someone whose main headphones are all mid-high range sennheisers.

      There's not too many sites that will have several people thoroughly listen to 30 different pairs of earbuds and score each of them. There's only one site that does this type of shit for more than a single domain of products without a sacrifice in quality.

    7. Re:the problem by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The second half of the problem is that the "journalists" doing these lists aren't really journalists and not trained to actually find stuff out. This is not the online presence of Consumer Reports.

    8. Re:the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      having one woman is expensive enough. Having enough to make a best of list would bankrupt all but Bill Gates

    9. Re:the problem by SNRatio · · Score: 1

      Time consuming yes, but many of the products are loaned or provided for free.

    10. Re:the problem by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

      The problem is that doing an ACTUAL best-of list is time consuming, difficult, and above all expensive.

      Not to mention pointless and click baity

    11. Re:the problem by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 1

      For individual reviews, yes.

      The guys that are comparing products are *most likely* spending out of pocket for a good percentage of the items.

  4. Graffiti seen in my local town by Black.Shuck · · Score: 5, Funny

    Things I hate:

    1. Graffiti
    2. Irony
    3. Lists

    1. Re:Graffiti seen in my local town by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      4. Lists about lists.

    2. Re:Graffiti seen in my local town by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5. ???
      6. Profit!

  5. And water is wet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Youtube has been infested with this kind of videos for years. Great job stating the obvious!

  6. Best List of Best Lists by 31415926535897 · · Score: 1

    Okay, so a lot of best "X" lists are crap. But surely some are good. Does anybody have a list of the best best lists?

    1. Re:Best List of Best Lists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but I have a List of lists of lists

    2. Re:Best List of Best Lists by infolation · · Score: 1
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.

  7. The winners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Best 10 politicians"
    "Best 10 Kardashians"
    "Best 10 species of bedbug"

  8. Somebody summed it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The lists that usually appear at year's end can be classified as lazy journalism. They predated blogs (whose authors think they serve a purpose...

  9. Lists in general by istartedi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Whenever I'm on YouTube it's only a matter of time before my related videos get me to some kind of list. It always sucks. It's the signal to turn back or quit and do something else; but I can see how people get sucked in. The siren song of best this/that at the end... I usually catch myself; but I'm older and have had years of experience waiting for the red caboose at the end of literal trains (when they actually still had them) and the "no. 1 song" at the end of those holiday count-downs on the radio (always Stairway to Heaven. Always disappointing). These lists... theyr'e just the 21st century train of boredom; but we don't have to stand here at the crossing gates looking like idiots. There are so many other choices now.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Lists in general by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Did you just downplay Stairway to Heaven?
      Dude.

      --
      I tend to rant.
    2. Re:Lists in general by alvinrod · · Score: 0

      It's a great song and I can understand why it tops so many lists, but if I'm going to be honest with you, I'd probably say I enjoy Kashmir, Dazed and Confused*, or a few of their other songs more than Stairway to Heaven.

      *Yes I'm aware this could technically be construed as someone else's song, but I still like their version of it.

    3. Re:Lists in general by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the radio there's a different reason as to why they play that song. It's exactly the length of time it takes to finish 1 cigarette. Your DJ needed a break. ;)

    4. Re:Lists in general by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      That's a good example of the futility of "best of" lists. What is "best" is, always and necessarily, subjective.

    5. Re:Lists in general by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Led Zep I through IV + Houses of the Holy = Equally Amazing In Their Own Way

      Oh, and John Paul Jones is a God.

      --
      I tend to rant.
  10. Marginalized People by sexconker · · Score: 1

    But with the race to find the best at the heart of so much media we consume today, such articles can only be trusted if they come from an established outlet with legitimacy, the same institutions that are slow and struggle to add marginalized people to their ranks.

    Translation:
    You can only trust a "best of" list if it comes from a publisher that you can trust and that is slow and struggles to hire marginalized people?

    What the fuck? What is this shit? This is pure, meaningless nonsense!

    1. Re:Marginalized People by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking the same thing. What the heck do they mean by this?

    2. Re:Marginalized People by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It means you can't trust lists compiled by straight white males.

    3. Re:Marginalized People by naubol · · Score: 1

      This is honestly probably true if the list one is looking for is "Best Authentic Curry Restaurants". Sure, some white man out there may have devoted his life to curry, but it's going to be easier to develop expertise in culturally specific lists if the writer grew up in that culture.

      --
      Reality is a slackware box running on a 386 tucked away in god's sock drawer.
    4. Re: Marginalized People by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good point most lists are rare ethnic related topics, like best song, best vacuum cleaner, best airline, best hotel, best Bluetooth speaker

  11. Re:Best of slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Year of Linux on the desktop

  12. /. front page items least deserving of attention by mi · · Score: 1

    motivated by affiliate advertising more than the desire to share an opinion.

    I'd like to think, the /. editors placing this truism on the front page were also motivated by something tangibly rewarding. It is too depressing to think, they sincerely believed it worth our attention...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  13. Re:Best of slashdot by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Top 10 things which make good Beowulf Clusters

  14. "Best" is the shame of the West by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The the West, we are slaves to the idea of the instant result, the quick-fix, and the "best" something or other.

    It's perverted, and creates maladies in the minds of those who pursue them. Diseases of short attention span, the inability to wait before making a decision, fear of making mistakes, pridefulness, and all while absolving oneself of as much personal responsibility as one can get away with.

    How did we get here? Can someone make a list? My time is valuable.

  15. How do you define "best"? by CanadianRealist · · Score: 1

    Depending on what you're talking about, people will likely use very different definitions of "best." Forget about "best." What is the metric that you use to define one item as being "better" than another?

    Consider comparing apples to oranges. Which is best? Do you mean which tastes better (according to who), which has more vitamins (which vitamins), which is the better value for the cost, which lasts longer, which is easier to grow. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

    Without a well defined metric, saying something is the best is pretty much meaningless.

  16. Argument for Publishers by pz · · Score: 1

    The summary explains exactly the value that scientific publishers bring to their field. There have been many discussions on Slashdot about scientific publishers, with most views on the negative side. Given the obscene profits and lack of remuneration to reviewers, I am agreed that change is necessary in terms of cost structure. But, many times Open Access advocates miss the value that an established publisher brings to the process of getting a scientific paper published: quality filtering. If you see a paper in Nature, Science, etc., you are reasonably assured that it has gone through high-quality peer review, and has been properly vetted (yes, there are rare exceptions; they do not invalidate the fundamental observation ... see the words "reasonably assured"). When the publisher-cum-filter is eliminated, as happens with the so-called predatory publishers who put anything and everything out as long as the author is willing to cough up a few dollars, quality suffers greatly. How seriously are you going to take a paper that was published in International Open Review Biomolecular Recipes versus one in Cell?

    The summary is making the same argument with respect to best-of lists. They "can only be trusted if they come from an established outlet with legitimacy." Which is to say, some entity has vouched for the value of the content by staking some small part of their valuable reputation on promoting it. And their valuable reputation has been built up only by many years of providing content that has bee judged by the public to be high quality. It's a positive feedback cycle.

    But, eliminate the established outlet acting as a filter, and you get unmitigated drivel, whether it be best-of lists or scientific papers.

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  17. Re:Best of slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >Top 10 things which make good Beowulf Clusters

    Top ten things to do with hot grits

  18. Aaaandd? by Shotgun · · Score: 2

    Was there a point hidden somewhere in that rant that I missed?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    1. Re:Aaaandd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently the point is that news agencies should hire more minorities.

  19. Re:Best of slashdot by bn-7bc · · Score: 1

    Fast nodes, fast innterconnects, lots of memmory, lots of fast shated stottage damn that is just 4 oh well It will not be my firs fail

  20. the meta story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    worst things:

    1. lists of "best" stories "worth publishing" on slashdot
    2. lists of "best" comments "as judged by users" on slashdot

  21. As long as they don't use the "c" word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like best-of lists, as long as they don't claim to be "curated" somehow.

  22. Best. Article. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm adding it to my list.

  23. This comment is the best. by Yaztromo · · Score: 3

    +5 here we come!

  24. Re:Best of slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    creimer's trolls - they're a bitter lot

  25. Re:Best of slashdot by imatter · · Score: 1

    don't forget text editors

  26. Best of linux! by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 0

    Try owning linux some time and see if you can find the best of anything.

    I wanted a program to do backups, and went to google to see if there was one or two favorites to choose from.

    The first page of results lists "14 outstanding backup utilities for linux", "10 best linux backup solutions", "10 outstanding backup utilities", "34 best free linux backup" (wtf?), and "5 awesome open source backup software for linux".

    None of these sites has the programs sorted in the same order, so... which one is the best? Which are the 3 most popular?

    It's not clear that there can be "34 best" of anything, and once you get that far down the list it simply becomes "a list of all backup programs", with no realistic way to choose.

    Next I'm going to implement a web page on a Raspberry pi - I'll start with a google search for "top open source web server". and see what's popular...

    1. Re:Best of linux! by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Whether what your looking for is Linux-related or not, if you're paying any attention to "best of" rankings, you're doing it wrong.

      At best, as you point out, these lists should be taken as "here's a few related things that exist."

    2. Re:Best of linux! by unrtst · · Score: 1

      Next I'm going to implement a web page on a Raspberry pi - I'll start with a google search for "top open source web server". and see what's popular...

      If you tried this, then the results are perfectly acceptable.
      Google suggests: Apache HTTPD, Lighttpd, Apache Tomcat, Cherokee, Caddy, ...
      First link (https://opensource.com/business/16/8/top-5-open-source-web-servers) suggests: Apache HTTPD, NGINX, Apache Tomcat, Node.js, Lighttpd.

      You'll still have to see which is best for your situation (which you could probably just include in your search), but those are perfectly good ones to try first.

      The problem here, IMO, isn't the list, it's the requirements, specialization, and feature comparisons. For backup (the main example of the parents post), I actively make use of rsnapshot, rdiff-backup, BackupPC, Crashplan, Dropbox, Glacier, Backblaze, and some custom backup jobs that use rsync/tar/gz/bzip2/etc. Most of those could easily be swapped out with similar solutions, but they all have their own ideal scenario, and there are other types of backups that aren't even covered in that list. For example, if you're looking for something that behaves like Dropbox, BackupPC would be a horrible choice... and vice-versa.

      You'll either need to do a fair bit of reading/research yourself, or talk to someone who has, and you'll need a good understanding of what your main goals are.

    3. Re:Best of linux! by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

      The first page of results lists "14 outstanding backup utilities for linux", "10 best linux backup solutions", "10 outstanding backup utilities", "34 best free linux backup" (wtf?), and "5 awesome open source backup software for linux".

      they are all one and the same blog.

  27. Ann-Derrick ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the hell kinda first name is that !?
    A female name and a male name, separated by a hyphen ... Tg/Hermaphrodite/Both ?

  28. On the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worst of lists are the best!

  29. Re:Best of slashdot by darkain · · Score: 1

    1) First Post
    2) best apps for appers who love to app about best apper apps
    3) ...?
    4) PROFIT!

  30. The cut-and-paste lists are the worst, and rampant by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    When I'm looking for advice on some product or whatever, I look at a few lists. It's fairly common to find several list sites with the same (identical verbatim) reviews and order for the products on any number of lists, and I discount these both because they are not unique and because the reviews are not unique, and often actually boilerplate.

    It's hard to judge reputation, but some sites have earned my interest. Some are pure advertising, and probably paid.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  31. Re:Best of slashdot by Major_Disorder · · Score: 1

    don't forget text editors

    vi is the only text editor.

    --
    First law of people: People are generally stupid.
  32. This is news? by TomR+teh+Pirate · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I would have thought everybody knew those lists were nothing more than awful clickbait. How did such idiocy end up on /. ?

    1. Re:This is news? by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

      How did such idiocy end up on /.

      Because it's spreading.

  33. in scuba diving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best X places to dive are always X places that gave me free diving to be on this list.

  34. Clickbait by sanf780 · · Score: 1

    Most of the lists or videos that name X best things in the world, they do that as click bait. I prefer review round-ups.

  35. Who just takes a random opinion by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

    ...from the internet, and acts on it?
    These lists are *opinions* at best. Disappointment should be at yourself for even taking these seriously.

    What a waste of an article.

    --
    I tend to rant.
  36. Re: Best of slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apps!
    Luddites
    Systemd
    Windows 10
    Pepperidge farm remembers
    Frosty piss
    Apk hosts
    In Soviet Russia...
    Didn't read TFA ...

  37. All "best of" lists are inevitably wrong by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    It's unavoidable because what is "best" depends on what your needs are, and that varies from person to person.

    1. Re:All "best of" lists are inevitably wrong by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      From Doom9 forum rules

      Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you!

  38. Re:Best of slashdot by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    Golden Girls

  39. Best /. article by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    This ain't it.

  40. Google Search Exploit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bingo. Google (YouTube) has a major weakness for "Top N ___" or "N Things That ___". It is a search engine algorithm exploit (optimization) that people are using. It will not stop until Google fixes their code. Once you click through on one, that is it. You are in the integer in the title search bubble.

    Using DuckDuckGo helps avoid this problem. While on YouTube, if I have a moment of weakness and want to watch one of these, I open it in an incognito window so that it does not permanently pollute my recommended list.

    Google loves lists way too much. The best way to avoid this problem is to not use Google.

  41. Nobody understands Click Bait? by ripvlan · · Score: 3, Funny

    Seriously -- this needed a study? The whole purpose of these lists is to be Click Bait and drive ad revenue to the web site.

    oh wait - the author created an article referencing something stupid to drive clicks to her web site. How very meta !!!

  42. $10,000.00 LAN cable is best... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So is... "This is Windows calling. You're computer has virus" Best MS tech support ever. Now my $10k audio LAN cable delivers 2Gbps audio to my K-Mart speakers from my protected Windows 10 computer.

  43. I agree by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    This is why you should never visit Seattle, or go to any of the cool restaurants I go to.

    They're on Best Of lists.

    Just stay away so I can keep getting great tables.

    Thanks!

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  44. Re:Best of slashdot by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Damn, I'm old. I remember when a comment like that would guarantee an intense flamewar that would overtake the actual topic at hand.

  45. Local news lists are the worst by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    See the worst here: http://www.al.com/birmingham/

    Crap like:
    -20 zip codes with the most expensive houses
    -Top 25 defensive backs in the past 25 years
    -Private school tuition: A sampling of costs at 20 more Alabama schools

    Before the weekend they will usually have some crap like "Ten things to do in Birmingham this weekend", and they're constantly having lists of the top BBQ joints, 10 best players ever at ______ school, top 15 most expensive restaurants in ______ county, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

    These lists are usually presented as slideshows requiring you to click through the list, and that's the whole point - MORE clicks.

    It's not news. It's not even fake news. It's utter crap and a way for them to make a few bucks.

  46. useless content if there ever was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of those lists (written or in video format) involve so little research, let alone actual use of any of the listed items... at best they will compare "feature lists" or paper specs... collectively they are a form of spam :-/

  47. You ARE wrong, but off by less than most think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not "fake news," it's just "shit news." There's a difference. Best-of lists are about advertising, but the "articles" are not ads. They're just a list that was somehow made, whether pulled out of someone's ass, voted on by readers or their robots, or sincerely and carefully researched. (Seriously, each of those can happen, even the last one! I am not making that up!)

    It's a pretext to approach all businesses related to the topic. "We're going to have an issue about the best fidget spinner buttplugs. Would you like to buy an ad?"

    And then once the winners are decided (which, seriously, might not have anything to do with who bought an ad) you approach or re-approach the winners. Again: "Would you like to buy an ad?"

    And the ads do get sold. That is why best-of lists exist. They are ad sales opportunities, and good ones for the publication. They aren't ads in themselves, but they're going to be surrounded by ads.

    [I know I had to use the word "seriously" twice above, because what I'm saying is hard to believe. But it's true. I work in this business and every penny of my paycheck ultimately comes from someone buying an ad. It's less corrupt than you think, because all the real dirt is in plain sight: the ads next to the best-of lists.]

  48. Re: Best of slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Creimer - he's a fucking moron.

  49. Re:Best of slashdot by Major_Disorder · · Score: 1

    Damn, I'm old. I remember when a comment like that would guarantee an intense flamewar that would overtake the actual topic at hand.

    I miss those days. :(
    I was hopeing for a good vi VS vim VS emacs VS edlin flamewar.

    --
    First law of people: People are generally stupid.
  50. Same Problem As Yelp: Popularity Equals Mediocrity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best Of lists suffer the same fate as restaurants and other consumer stuff. Assuming they are not clickbait or sponsored by someone with a vested interest, popular things must be mediocre. If things are truly exotic and special, they are not going to appeal to the masses. So, they are not going to be selected as "best." High points, sharp edges, and other prominent features must all be worn down to a smooth surface before the majority of people will accept something.