MIT Team's School-Bus Algorithm Could Save $5M and 1M Bus Miles (wsj.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: A trio of MIT researchers recently tackled a tricky vehicle-routing problem when they set out to improve the efficiency of the Boston Public Schools bus system. Last year, more than 30,000 students rode 650 buses to 230 schools at a cost of $120 million. In hopes of spending less this year, the school system offered $15,000 in prize money in a contest that challenged competitors to reduce the number of buses. The winners -- Dimitris Bertsimas, co-director of MIT's Operations Research Center and doctoral students Arthur Delarue and Sebastien Martin -- devised an algorithm that drops as many as 75 bus routes. The school system says the plan, which will eliminate some bus-driver jobs, could save up to $5 million, 20,000 pounds of carbon emissions and 1 million bus miles (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled; alternative source). The computerized algorithm runs in about 30 minutes and replaces a manual system that in the past has taken transportation staff several weeks to complete. "They have been doing it manually many years," Dr. Bertsimas said. "Our whole running time is in minutes. If things change, we can re-optimize." The task of plotting school-bus routes resembles the classic math exercise known as the Traveling Salesman Problem, where the goal is to find the shortest path through a series of cities, visiting each only once, before returning home.

Comments

So many jobs lost

[Anonymous Coward]

Will Dimitris Bertsimas share his money with the fired drivers? I bet he won't, the monster!

Re:So many jobs lost

[alvinrod]

I certainly hope so otherwise the bus drivers won't be able to pay the whip and buggy makers they put out of work. And won't someone think of the poor farriers.

Re: So many jobs lost

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe instead they could hire more drivers and just drive around in empty buses?

Re:So many jobs lost

[bn-7bc]

Well, or you culd say tjat at current service levels(for the school busses) the school district (they pey for the scholl bus costs right) now has$5M more to use on teachers/books/buliduings etc. Yes I agree itt is rather unfortunate for the drivers that gets pink slips, but I think you agree that the main purpos of a school systenm is to educate not to transort, so the re alocation of resources this enables well help the scools do their job better, Ther is of corse the chance that scumbag bolititions will fire the drivers and sa great $5M saved time to call it a day and be the hero at the next budget neating

Traveling salesman problem

[OffTheLip]

NP complete or something else?

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[alvinrod]

There are several different polynomial algorithms that produce solutions to a traveling salesman-like problem that are typically within around 20% of the ideal solution. I'll take a good enough answer over one that's perfect but won't be available until well after the heat death of the universe.

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[crow]

Right. There are even polynomial-time approximation algorithms that guarantee to be within a fixed percentage of optimal. And don't forget that NP-complete doesn't mean it's impossible, only that it takes a long time as the problem size increases. For smaller problem sizes, solving the problem outright isn't impractical. In this case, they have a variation on the classic problem where there's a limit to the number of kids on each bus and a limit to how long (in time) each bus route can be. But if the stops are fixed and the school to which they have to deliver the kids is fixed, then it breaks down the problem to separate problems for each school, and solving each small NP-complete problem is entirely practical. If the destination school isn't fixed, then run an approximation algorithm on the whole thing, then use the school assignments from that algorithm and re-run using the full solution.

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[AK Marc]

it breaks down the problem to separate problems for each school

Those assumptions are the problem.

Drop off children at elementary schools earlier. Pick up at elementary schools for high schools. Use the same bus at the same stop, simplifying the problem. The science also supports starting older school later. Two problems, one stone.

Re: Traveling salesman problem

[guruevi]

For a small problem like this you can simply run through all possible solutions with a GPU in a matter of minutes. Brute forcing it is relatively simple, as the article said a couple of weeks of people-work.

Re: Traveling salesman problem

[Anonymous Coward]

It absolutely can't be it...

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[ctilsie242]

I did a basic genetic algorithm project on this for a CS class. 100 cities, and it took about 90 seconds to chug out a working answer. Is it _the_ answer? Perhaps not. But it is good enough.

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[mesterha]

There are even polynomial-time approximation algorithms that guarantee to be within a fixed percentage of optimal.

The percentage for an arbitrary graph is still quite poor. It's still about 1.5 times longer than optimal. Euclidean is much better and this problem probably qualifies...

And don't forget that NP-complete doesn't mean it's impossible, only that it takes a long time as the problem size increases. For smaller problem sizes, solving the problem outright isn't impractical. In this case, they have a variation on the classic problem where there's a limit to the number of kids on each bus and a limit to how long (in time) each bus route can be. But if the stops are fixed and the school to which they have to deliver the kids is fixed, then it breaks down the problem to separate problems for each school, and solving each small NP-complete problem is entirely practical.

Right, there are good algorithms for solving moderately big TSP problems such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... However, all these extra constraints and changes might cause a lot of problems. I'm sure the MIT guys did a lot of significant work.

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[crow]

What? You want to have high school students and kindergarten kids on the same bus? And you completely defeat the advantage of delaying the high school start time if you make them get up early to spend an hour due to a two-stage bussing plan.

I agree that having the younger kids start earlier is an obvious choice, but optimizing the bussing can work regardless of the ordering.

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[Anonymous Coward]

There are several different polynomial algorithms that produce solutions to a traveling salesman-like problem that are typically within around 20% of the ideal solution. I'll take a good enough answer over one that's perfect but won't be available until well after the heat death of the universe.

+1

I wish people in the USA would realize and accept this same sort of logic when it comes to the screwed up US healthcare system.

Re:Traveling salesman problem

[AK Marc]

You want to have high school students and kindergarten kids on the same bus?

Nope. I said drop off the elementary kids at the elementary school, then in that empty bus, put on the high school students.

And you completely defeat the advantage of delaying the high school start time if you make them get up early to spend an hour due to a two-stage bussing plan.

So getting on a bus at 8 at the elementary school is just right, so long as there that bus hasn't been used by elementary students earlier in the day, but putting them on a bus at 8 that had previously been used by elementary students is too early?

I agree that having the younger kids start earlier is an obvious choice, but optimizing the bussing can work regardless of the ordering.

Optimizing can't work regardless of the ordering. At least where I grew up, high school students buses were more spread out, assuming that the students could travel further on their own. So the main pickup points for high school were the schools feeding that school. Springfield HS bus would start at Springfield Elementary, and drive to SHS. Contrastingly, no elementary bus picked up at the HS. So starting the HS bus at the elementary saves time. The reverse is not true. Never mix the students. Just re-schedule schools to get them in an order that simplifies bussing, as well as optimizing the routes themselves (which for an HS would likely include a pickup at the elementary, so if you have the traditional school schedules, you'll pass through the elementary school 2-3 times, and with the revised starts, only once is necessary).

Interesting.

[Nutria]

As a parent, though, who's son rode the bus for 3 years, my first question would be if this will lengthen bus rides? (A 4% reduction in cost for a 20% increase in ride times would be a definite non-starter in my book.)

No, I didn't RTFA.

Re:Interesting.

[sunking2]

Not likely for several reasons. The first being they are saving overall miles. While this doesn't exclude the possibility of a longer ride it is not the most likely scenario. Secondly, buses do multiple routes which is why school starts are staggered. If bus rides are longer they wouldn't be able to meet this schedule.

Re:Interesting.

[K. S. Kyosuke]

You think a 20% increase in ride times could be accomplished with simultaneous carbon emission (proportional to fuel consumption) reduction? That would probably mean a massive efficiency jump in vehicle fuel efficiency. We'd hear more about that if that were the case.

Re:Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

As a parent, though, who's son rode the bus for 3 years, my first question would be if this will lengthen bus rides?

Your first question appears to be "who's son rode the bus for 3 years"

Re:Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not likely for several reasons. The first being they are saving overall miles. While this doesn't exclude the possibility of a longer ride it is not the most likely scenario. Secondly, buses do multiple routes which is why school starts are staggered. If bus rides are longer they wouldn't be able to meet this schedule.

Saving redundant miles alone doesn't correlate to reduced ride duration per bus. Starting earlier each day would still allow for staggered school starts at existing times. Some students are still likely to spend more time on a bus.

Re:Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is more about saving money than inconveniencing the kids. Sorry if your kid has to get up 10 minutes earlier - maybe use the extra time to study. This is our money paying for his chariot to school. It's not a goddamn limousine service. If you want to minimize his travel time, perhaps you take him in yourself, yes?

Re:Interesting.

[Nutria]

Absolutely, if each bus is more heavily -- and efficiently -- used, where reduction in total passenger-miles is the goal. IOW, buses that are more heavily loaded require more driving around to pick up all the children.

Re:Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

who's?

You need to go back to grade school yourself.

Re:Interesting.

[AvitarX]

I wish they gave the fuel savings (or miles) as a percentage, then we could compare the little bit over 10% bus reduction to the miles reduction and actually know.

It seems entirely possible that each bus drives more, but there is overall savings.

it can't really be 20% more though I'd think. doing it the old way with 10% fewer buses would be only an 11% increase in bus time, this is also a decrease in overall bus miles.

Re:Interesting.

[AvitarX]

I don't think it could be that extreme.

They cut 10% of the buses, presumably doing it at the efficiency of by hand, that's only an 11% increase in time.

I also suspect that maximum time is a constraint they had to work with.

Re:Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlikely. Cost and miles driven would likely be very closely related, and they talk abut how many fewer miles they'll be driving.

Re:Interesting.

[Gr8Apes]

As a parent, though, who's son rode the bus for 3 years, my first question would be if this will lengthen bus rides? (A 4% reduction in cost for a 20% increase in ride times would be a definite non-starter in my book.).

I'm guessing that these guys being from MIT, they've already calculated in that parents like you would drive their kids to school, thus reducing the number of kids and miles driven.

Re:Interesting.

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Why would cutting 10% of the buses mean an 11% increase in time? Path optimization presumably changes distance, so the change of distance driven does not not have to be the inverse change of buses used.

Re:Interesting.

[Nutria]

I'm guessing you didn't read where my son rode the bus for 3 years.

Re:Interesting.

[kwbauer]

No, they are saying that they are a now a parent, are somebody's son, and rode the bus for 3 years (presumably as a student but possibly as a "bus dad"; then they asked a question.

Re:Interesting.

[fahrbot-bot]

I'm guessing you didn't read where my son rode the bus for 3 years.

Was this bus named Snowpiercer? Did he get time off for meals and bathroom breaks?

Re:Interesting.

[Nutria]

You succeeded in getting me to Google "Snowpiercer".

Re: Interesting.

[AvitarX]

I meant to say if the efficiency was the same.

Clearly it can mean less time if the cut is do to increased efficiency.

Re:Interesting.

[jittles]

As a parent, though, who's son rode the bus for 3 years, my first question would be if this will lengthen bus rides? (A 4% reduction in cost for a 20% increase in ride times would be a definite non-starter in my book.)

No, I didn't RTFA.

Why are you so concerned? I rode the bus a long time myself. My bus ride was 20 minutes. Let's round it up to an even 25 minutes. Now we increase that by 20% and it takes an extra 5 minutes. Since we're talking 5 minutes each way, it would cost an extra 10 minutes a day. If it's an hour long bus ride, then you're talking about 12 minutes, and the round trip is closer to a half an hour of extra time. But I doubt that there are routes in Boston that take that long, as it's a relatively urban area. So, what kind of bus ride did your son have that this 20% increase is a non-starter for you? And what would you have had him do with those extra 10-25 minutes anyway?

Re:Interesting.

[Nutria]

what kind of bus ride did your son have that this 20% increase is a non-starter for you?

My son's bus ride was upwards of 90 MINUTES. One way.

And what would you have had him do with those extra 10-25 minutes anyway?

Not waste another 1+ hours of his day.

Re:Interesting.

[sexconker]

You think a 20% increase in ride times could be accomplished with simultaneous carbon emission (proportional to fuel consumption) reduction? That would probably mean a massive efficiency jump in vehicle fuel efficiency. We'd hear more about that if that were the case.

No they just take all the downhill routes instead of the uphill routes.

Re:Interesting.

[sexconker]

Great film. Daniel Tosh's favorite, in fact.

Re:Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

As a parent, though, who's son rode the bus for 3 years, my first question would be if this will lengthen bus rides? (A 4% reduction in cost for a 20% increase in ride times would be a definite non-starter in my book.)

No, I didn't RTFA.

Wow, you let him take a 3 year ride, and you're worried about ride times?

Re:Interesting.

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Hmm, does this mean that the bad fuel efficiency of cars around 1950s and 1960s or so was caused by driving uphill both ways?

Re:Interesting.

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Clearly three-year rides aren't enough for him!

Re:Interesting.

[LynnwoodRooster]

That's a perfectly cromulent question for most /. given their closest physical contact with a lady is the dental hygenist cleaning their teeth...

Re:Interesting.

[Barsteward]

Why not use Electric buses, save even more then

Re:Interesting.

[Beezlebub33]

Mediocre movie. overly symbolic, annoying ending, but some good action. Danial Tosh is great, but hardly a great movie critic.

It would be interesting to see the distribution of trip times would be for students. That should be very easy to calculate.

Re:Interesting.

[sexconker]

(He actually hates this movie and is vocal about it.)

$4k/yr/student?

[eth1]

I think the math works out to over $20/day per student, given the numbers in the summary (assuming a school year == 180 days)...

Does anyone else think that's excessive? You'd be better off (by a lot) paying 1/3 of the parents $20/day to carpool two or three other students...

Re:$4k/yr/student?

[Anonymous Coward]

They could probably all take Ubers for that much $$$.

Re:$4k/yr/student?

[Junta]

It does seem excessive, and there's probably a story behind that... Probably not quite right or missing something...

But generally speaking, reducing the number of students on the buses by 1/3 would probably not amount to 1/3 cost savings.

For example, if a school bus cost $70k and it is carrying 70 students, that bus does not cost $10k if you get 60 students to stop riding. Same goes for a lot of the expense and capital costs associated with running that transportation, I would think.

Re: $4k/yr/student?

[guruevi]

Each bus needs a driver and 2-3 teachers per day. All of them are also unionized and contracted to drive regardless of load. It's entirely possible this plan won't save anything as the contract has been signed several years ago for fixed amounts of buses.

Re:$4k/yr/student?

[Anonymous Coward]

but that surge pricing...

Re: $4k/yr/student?

[Hadlock]

Sure, but the street grid will never change (at least not significantly), residential density won't change (much) and cities on major waterways/ports typically thrive for centuries if not millennia (See Istanbul, Alexandria, London, Paris, Rome). Even if their contracts are for 50 years, they're saving time and labor measured over hundreds of years.

Re:$4k/yr/student?

[Ichijo]

$120M / 650 buses = $185k per bus+driver per year.

Those buses sit idle most of the day. They need fuel, maintenance, insurance, and registration; and they depreciate. The analysts may also have calculated in the cost of parking (including the amortized cost of the land which is expensive in Boston), loan servicing (interest), and the opportunity cost of capital (the money tied up in the buses).

Re:$4k/yr/student?

[Anonymous Coward]

Boston bus drivers get pretty good pensions, and those probably don't go away.

Re:$4k/yr/student?

[djinn6]

It's the city's money. Why would anyone put any effort into saving it? Especially when all the bus drivers would be angry at you and most parents would prefer if nothing changed.

Re:$4k/yr/student?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the taxpayer's money. Why would anyone in the government put any effort into saving it?

FTFY.

FedEX, UPSand others MONEY!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well guys, you just wrote yourselves a ticket to mucho-buckoes! If it works better than what UPS and FedEx, expect the money.

Congratulations!

It will save taxpayer money and lower pollution.

Re:FedEX, UPSand others MONEY!!

[93 Escort Wagon]

Actually, I wonder if the school district ever thought about talking to UPS and/or FedEx - unfortunately I doubt it. But they're dealing with similar problems, and we know the two companies have put a lot of time and money into solving this.

Re: FedEX, UPSand others MONEY!!

[guruevi]

You're talking about administrators. They probably have an it person that could've figured this out in less than the prize money but nobody bothered asking.

Re:FedEX, UPSand others MONEY!!

[fahrbot-bot]

I wonder if the school district ever thought about talking to UPS and/or FedEx ...

They did, but the companies would only guarantee student delivery by 5pm w/o and extra charge and for FexEX if no one was outside to sign for them they'd leave a note and try again the next day -- UPS would just drop the student off behind a bush Also UPS wouldn't deliver anyone over 150 pounds.

Re: FedEX, UPSand others MONEY!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This comment desrves more love

But will they be on schedule?

[DigiShaman]

Is it still based on a fixed schedule, or dynamic with real-time traffic conditions in the city? It's important, as riders prefer predictability to fit in with the rest of their scheduled daily activities such as school and work.

Re:But will they be on schedule?

[Jack_the_Tripper]

It's important, as riders prefer predictability to fit in with the rest of their scheduled daily activities such as school and work.

I know, right?

Just the other day I was waiting for the light rail and a couple cars got into an accident on the next street with one ending up disabled right in the middle of the tracks. Of course my first question to the people getting the passengers to swap trains so both could continue in their original direction was "Why doesn't your scheduling algorithm take into account these unforeseen circumstances because, you know, I have places to be?"

Re:But will they be on schedule?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you prefer the exception to the rule?

One day those buses will be powered by CC

[Anonymous Coward]

Clean Coal: the future for America's energy needs

Re:One day those buses will be powered by CC

[Anonymous Coward]

Clean Coal: the oxymoron for morons

Re:One day those buses will be powered by CC

[WheezyJoe]

Yes!! "clean" coal shoveled into a roaring furnace by children covered in grime and soot, a fat drunkard whipping them when they slack off, red and sweaty from the steam belching from the engine as it wheezes down the alley to the workhouse!!!
Why read Dickens, when you can LIVE IT!!!
Coal - it's not just for breakfast anymore.

Kids. choosing a college for the fall ?

[bugs2squash]

Consider that the college that did most to increase the packing density of kids onto buses to the exclusion of all other considerations is... MIT. Choose your college accordingly.

Re:Kids. choosing a college for the fall ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider that the college that did most to increase the packing density of kids onto buses to the exclusion of all other considerations is... MIT. Choose your college accordingly.

Sorry, what's wrong with filling the bus up? Were you one if those kids who didn't like to sit with anyone?

Bounty

[MouseR]

Last I heard there was a 1M$ bounty on whoever solved the traveling salesman problem.

Re:Bounty

[Anonymous Coward]

They are obviously brute forcing it, just efficiently.

Traveling salesman is still NP-hard.

Re:Bounty

[93 Escort Wagon]

Since this is a real world issue, it's important not to let perfect be the enemy of good.

They don't really need to solve the traveling salesman problem. Just coming up with something reasonably close that can be done reasonably quickly saves a lot of money - significantly more than the one million dollar prize you mentioned.

more like the Black Maria

[Anonymous Coward]

The wheels on the bus go round and round
round and round
round and round
all through the town

$120 million

[Anonymous Coward]

$120 million per year for 30k students. That's $4000 per year per student. Or 180 days of school that's $22 a day.

A local bus pass on MBTA is $55/month by way of comparison.

Is anyone else thinking that's one hell of a ridiculously high cost for school busing? I suspect fraud here. No wonder schools are failing students. Their administration and overhead costs are outrageous.

Re:$120 million

[bdares]

The local bus pass is heavily subsidized by other revenue streams, to the tune of... $120 million a year (this year's proposal ups that to $190M for next year). Without considering that funding source, it is nonsensical to compare that number to the _total_ funding for the school buses.

Re:$120 million

[kwbauer]

Considering that the MBTA does not pick you up at your doorstep, there just might be a slight difference. I'm not saying the cost is entirely justified but that the stops are more customized so that some increase is worthwhile.

I know that a number of years ago, San Francisco made heavy use of the regular transit buses fro school transportation; no idea whether that is still the case.

Re:$120 million

[zippthorne]

School buses shouldn't be picking everyon up at their doorstep either. That's way too many stops for something as massive as a school bus. They must be spending a fortune on gas and brake pads alone.

Re:$120 million

[Anonymous Coward]

They generally do pick up clusters where it can be done.
They'll stop at the edge of a cul-de-sac or subdivision.
But then you see the nonsense of protective parents dropping off their kids at the bus stop in winter (which is usually just a stretch of sidewalk), having driven a few hundred feet.

Why not just do like California...

[Anonymous Coward]

California has no school bus system, and it saves the taxpayers millions. Ayn Rand's solutions are provably the best, so that route should be followed.

Re: Why not just do like California...

[Anonymous Coward]

And taking care of all the illegals there costs billions.

There's something seriously wrong

[Solandri]

Last year, more than 30,000 students rode 650 buses to 230 schools at a cost of $120 million

That doesn't sound right. $120 million over 30,000 students is $4000 per student-year. If there are 200 school days in a year, that's $20 per student per day, or $10 per student per trip. A savings of $5 million only reduces this to $9.58 per student per trip.

A monthly MBTA bus pass is $55/mo, which at 21 school days per month would work out to $1.31 per student per trip. So the school buses are 7.6x more expensive.

A little of the price difference I can understand due to school buses running fewer trips (a school bus usually services 2-4 schools on staggered schedules, with a few hours lull around lunch). So the purchase cost of the bus is amortized over fewer trips. Utilization of public buses is also higher. 392,413 riders on a weekday over 7200 round trips = 54.5 riders per circuit, which is close to or over 100% capacity per circuit (obviously not everyone is on the bus at the same time, but we're looking at fares per circuit). School buses OTOH run at about 51% capacity per circuit.

But if you figure these are both 2:1 factors, then that would bring up the MBTA bus cost to just $5.24 per student per trip. Still about half that of operating the school buses. Maybe that's the solution. In other countries I've visited, schoolkids ride the public bus and subway.

Re: There's something seriously wrong

[guruevi]

They tried it in our city. The problem is that inner city students were so badly raised, they continually had problems with fights, drugs, robberies and assaults after a few years the bus company cancelled the contract.

Re: There's something seriously wrong

[sexconker]

Then let the inner city kids get kicked off the bus and handed off to the cops, like any other person.

This is a problem that solves itself once you drop the "no child left behind" madness.

Re: There's something seriously wrong

[guruevi]

You mean, bus drivers and cops should profile black kids and arrest minors for "minor offenses"? Have you heard of Ferguson? In our city the mayor is actually ghetto trash.

Once they elected this mayor, she removed camera systems because it "targeted black communities", liquidated several major crime initiatives and reduced the police force and then when the statistics showed a 30% reduction in arrests per year, she claimed victory over the crime problem - because, as you can see, not targeting high crime neighborhoods reduces crime by 30%.

Re: There's something seriously wrong

[sexconker]

And? Let that trash city fail.

Public Transportation

[denbesten]

Spend ....

• $22 Million to purchase city bus passes (30,000 kids * 2 per day * 180 school days * $2).
• $65 Million to hire 650 security officers to ride the public busses ($100,000 each, working 8 hours per day, 330 days per year).
• $33 Million on raises for teachers.

We would then have zero busses, teachers that are being paid closer to their value, safer public transportation and more full-time employment.

Re:Public Transportation

[BronsCon]

working 8 hours per day, 330 days per year

Where are you going to find 650 people willing to have only one day off every 1.5 weeks? Even for $37.88/hr, that's a bit of an ask, doncha think?

Re:Public Transportation

[bdares]

Sure, as soon as we are able to make public bus systems work purely on bus pass fares.
(Hint: if you think bus fares pay for even half of the cost of running the bus, you're.. wrong.)

Re:Public Transportation

[eegeerg]

Using public buses is a clever idea. It is already done in at least a few cities, though maybe only for a subset of students. However, consider that MBTA is subsidized by state and local governments. Would you be willing to factor this into your analysis? I hope it would still be attractive (and we might re-optimize the public buses to improve those too).

Re:Public Transportation

[Anonymous Coward]

Your security guards have to work 330 days per year? That means they only get a total of 35 days off annually, or about than 3 days per month. I guess you've never heard of weekends?

I'm glad I don't work for you.

Re:Public Transportation

[denbesten]

You are focusing on a typo, not the intention. The important part is that security guards would provide much more value than simply to the students who are on the bus for at most 2 hours a day and 180 days a year. For those that first need correct details, replace 330 with 230 (52 weeks * 5 days a week - 10 holidays - 20 vacation days) and it will make more sense.

Re:Public Transportation

[BronsCon]

Hard to tell the difference between typo and intent with all the thoughtless trolls on this site lately, my apologies.

Re:Public Transportation

[denbesten]

MBTA subsidy is $2.07 per rider. over the entire system. Most of the students would ride daytime busses, which are subsidized less ($1.43). Using the higher number, the true cost of an adult charlie card is $3.13 ($2.28 for a child). Plenty of room to make that work.

The trick for making public transportation pay for itself is increasing paid ridership. The students would immediately increase ridership about 10% and start them on a life-long path of being customers. So, this even helps out MBTA even if you don't ask the schools to pay above retail price.

Re:Poor get Poorer

[kwbauer]

And your solution is to continue wasting tax money paying people to do a job that is not needed. That is about the dumbest idea I have heard for a while.

Maybe we could pay these people to do some of those "jobs that Americans don't want". I'm sure some Americans would want them if the choice was between "job I don't really want and starving" instead of "job I don't want and welfare." Use welfare to pay the relocation costs.

reduce the number of buses

[Anonymous Coward]

a contest that challenged competitors to reduce the number of buses.

I have a great answer. One bus that does all the bus routes.

Re:Poor get Poorer

[Anonymous Coward]

When all jobs are fake jobs, none of the jobs are needed. Stop advertising fake jobs. Stop paying recruiters and start paying a basic income.

BUTT MUH CAPITALISMS!!! you scream.

As many as

[wonkey_monkey]

as many as 75

So... 75, then?

Someone had a word quota...

Fuel !!!

[WheezyJoe]

Where I live, more and more "grown-up" buses are going hybrid or natural-gas, much much kinder when you're stuck behind one in traffic.
But all the school buses are the same stamped-metal yellow tanks they've been using since the Korean War, blasting out as much diesel soot as a dump truck. When the school budget comes up, there's always a jaw-dropping-huge chunk set aside to fuel these horrid things.
Maybe as much could be saved by upgrading these monsters to something modern as eliminating routes and cramming more kids on the inside?

Hey, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and college-debt-hounded MIT nerds... how about solving THIS problem on the back of a napkin!

Re:Fuel !!!

[mattack2]

Googling, I see many stories of usages and trials of electric school busses.

US Postal Service Delivers Childern

[MountainLogic]

Or at list did

One of the most overlooked, yet most significant innovations of the early 20th century might be the Post Office’s decision to start shipping large parcels and packages through the mail. While private delivery companies flourished during the 19th century, the Parcel Post dramatically expanded the reach of mail-order companies to America’s many rural communities, as well as the demand for their products. When the Post Office’s Parcel Post officially began on January 1, 1913, the new service suddenly allowed millions of Americans great access to all kinds of goods and services. But almost immediately, it had some unintended consequences as some parents tried to send their children through the mail.

“It got some headlines when it happened, probably because it was so cute,” United States Postal Service historian Jenny Lynch tells Smithsonian.com.

Just a few weeks after Parcel Post began, an Ohio couple named Jesse and Mathilda Beagle “mailed” their 8-month-old son James to his grandmother, who lived just a few miles away in Batavia. According to Lynch, Baby James was just shy of the 11-pound weight limit for packages sent via Parcel Post, and his “delivery” cost his parents only 15 cents in postage (although they did insure him for $50). The quirky story soon made newspapers, and for the next several years, similar stories would occasionally surface as other parents followed suit.

SMARTNEWS Keeping you current A Brief History of Children Sent Through the Mail In the early days of the parcel post, some parents took advantage of the mail in unexpected ways image: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com... Baby bag banner Uniformed Letter Carrier with Child in Mailbag (Smithsonian Institution) By Danny Lewis SMITHSONIAN.COM JUNE 14, 2016 | UPDATED: DECEMBER 21, 2016 40.9K183516543.3K Editor's Note, December 21, 2016 Listen to the Smithsonian perspective on this story from the Smithsonian’s new podcast, Sidedoor. Listen to the episode “Gaming the System” below and subscribe here for future episodes. One of the most overlooked, yet most significant innovations of the early 20th century might be the Post Office’s decision to start shipping large parcels and packages through the mail. While private delivery companies flourished during the 19th century, the Parcel Post dramatically expanded the reach of mail-order companies to America’s many rural communities, as well as the demand for their products. When the Post Office’s Parcel Post officially began on January 1, 1913, the new service suddenly allowed millions of Americans great access to all kinds of goods and services. But almost immediately, it had some unintended consequences as some parents tried to send their children through the mail. RELATED CONTENT A Brief History of American Dead Letter Offices Mail Delivery By Rocket Never Took Off A Brief History of Post Office Cats “It got some headlines when it happened, probably because it was so cute,” United States Postal Service historian Jenny Lynch tells Smithsonian.com. Just a few weeks after Parcel Post began, an Ohio couple named Jesse and Mathilda Beagle “mailed” their 8-month-old son James to his grandmother, who lived just a few miles away in Batavia. According to Lynch, Baby James was just shy of the 11-pound weight limit for packages sent via Parcel Post, and his “delivery” cost his parents only 15 cents in postage (although they did insure him for $50). The quirky story soon made newspapers, and for the next several years, similar stories would occasionally surface as other parents followed suit. image:

Re:US Postal Service Delivers Childern

[MountainLogic]

And then of course there is this from CNN about mailing a baby today

Typical Routing problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Used by many to send people to multiple locations. One solution is to always turn right.

The bus contract is a well-established mob perk

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd take care pushing it too much. Of course, the school district may be trying to cover for the fact that it doesn't actually have all the busses it said it bought....

Re:Poor get Poorer

[kwbauer]

What fake jobs? I have family paying a bunch of teenagers slightly over minimum wage to sell burgers, fries and frozen custard. Just how much should somebody get paid for doing that and how much do you want that burger and frozen custard to cost.

Also, tending and harvesting crops and cattle and such is not a FAKE JOB. They are real jobs.