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Tesla's Electric Semi Truck Will Reportedly Get 200-300 Miles Per Charge (reuters.com)
According to Reuters, Tesla next month plans to unveil an electric big-rig truck with a working range of 200 to 300 miles, a sign that the company is targeting regional hauling for its entry into the commercial freight market. From the report: Chief Executive Elon Musk has promised to release a prototype of its Tesla Semi truck next month in a bid to expand the company's market beyond luxury cars. The entrepreneur has tantalized the trucking industry with the prospect of a battery-powered heavy-duty vehicle that can compete with conventional diesels, which can travel up to 1,000 miles on a single tank of fuel. Tesla's electric prototype will be capable of traveling the low end of what transportation veterans consider to be "long-haul" trucking, according to Scott Perry, an executive at Miami-based fleet operator Ryder System. Perry said he met with Tesla officials earlier this year to discuss the technology at the automaker's manufacturing facility in Fremont, California.
I can see a big need for intra-city hauling of trailers. 100 mile range (with less than 20 minute charge times) would probably be adequate and it would help build the infrastructure for electric vehicles in cities.
It also proves the technology and helps it evolve into longer range tractors. 1,000 miles is 16+ hours of driving, which I don't think is legal in most states/provinces, but 400 to 500 probably is reasonable to allow the driver time to stretch, have a meal, rest, shower while the tractor is recharging. I suspect the 1,000 mile range is to minimize fuel costs which is less of an issue with an electric tractor which should be able to plug in at multiple truck stops.
The technology won't be perfect from the starting gate, but Tesla will learn and be able to build better tractors down the road.
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I have often wondered why Tesla doesn't set a standard battery pack dimensions specification. Why couldn't you simply change battery packs like changing batteries in a flashlight or remote control. Even if the range for an electric long haul truck was 1000 miles you should be able to swap batteries packs in less time than it takes to fill a diesel fuel tank.
I guess you missed the part where this is aimed at regional hauling, not long haul? For an example: Costco's Pacific Northwest distribution center is just outside of Seattle, WA. One of their busiest stores is in Portland, OR. That is under a 150mi trip. The truck would charge while being loaded/unloaded. This sort of truck would be PERFECT for these types of routes.
Those "specialised situations" could very well be cities that no longer allow ICE powered trucks to be used within their boundaries. Have depots outside the city for ICE road-train long haul pick-ups and drop-offs, and shuffle the goods onto electric short-haul for travel to/from the final destination within the city borders.
Some basic facts that everyone gets wrong almost every time there is a discussion of electric vehicles.
1) Maximum battery charge rate is not a constant. Empty batteries charge faster than full ones.
2) Maximum battery charge rate in miles/hour of charge is much greater in bigger batteries than it is in small ones.
3) At superchargers, the batteries are the limiting factor for charge rate, not the chargers.
That means at a super charger, it takes about an hour to go from almost any charge to 100% charge.
Truck drivers can only drive 10 out of every 14 hours and then need at least 10 hours off.
Driving 300 miles is going to take at least 4 hours.
So the driver drives for 4 hours, chargers for 1, drivers for 4 more hours, charges for 1 more hour, then drives 2 more hours before he has to stop anyway.
It would actually be more time efficient to stop more often for less time.
Drivers that want to cheat on their logs will be at a disadvantage with electric trucks.
Team drivers may not want to use them.
You're all super focused on the range. Tesla has not said anything about the range. Some guy gave his theory. Now you're all jumping on that and either crapping on them or supporting them.
There are other uses beside long-haul. I'd expect Tesla would go first for local routes with smaller tractors and lighter trailers: supermarket and chain restaurant deliveries and the like. A fixed route would be the easiest first market for an electric tractor - assuming it's actually cheaper to operate long-term.
Tesla could still have a nice business even if it's only suitable for 5% of semi trucks sold - but I'd be surprised if they would actually be cheaper long-term (i.e., across multiple battery pack replacements, given how long commercial trucks tend to stay in service).
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They did. Tesla Model S battery can be replaced in 1 minute 35 seconds. They demonstrated it on stage back in 2013. And there was a pilot battery swap station built between LA and SF I believe. But there was no call for it. No one ever used it.
Although I'm global IT for an international aerospace firm my office is above a shipping and receiving warehouse (long story.) We ship large crates (could be used for homeless housing, god knows I've had apartments about that size) full of airliner cabin parts all over the world. The trucks that pick them up, mostly FedEx, are short cab with 30' trailers, all local. If these guys can rack up more than 200 miles a day in Seattle/Everett area traffic I would be amazed. The Tesla range is perfect for this use. There are a lot of these out there. Even the can haulers (containers) from BC going to Seattle/Tacoma are in this range one-way.
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Charging will be dirt cheap but a new battery will likely cost 50-80k USD before subsidy and won't last long if the vehicle is used commercially, much less than a car.
$80k is about 40 trips worth of diesel fuel in Europe. If the truck can make 80 trips before the battery wears out (and that's a lousy estimate). If it costs $1k to charge the battery then parity is achieved. If it can make more than 80 trips and costs less than $1k to charge the battery, then it is a net saving.
I think a modern LiFePo battery can take more than 80 charges. I have no idea how much it would actually cost to charge a battery for one of these things, but the fact that they are going into production (and not just at Tesla, but at MAN, Mercedes, DAF, etc.) means it is already an economic win for their customers or they wouldn't be doing it. Trucking companies are not swayed by soft arguments, they are a business and they know exactly how much maintenance, fuel, carbon tax, and capital depreciation are costing them.
As soon as you talk hydrogen you lose all credibility.
It's horrible for the environment, is unavailable anywhere, it's extremely dangerous to use, difficult to contain, and it's more expensive than other fuels.
Hydrogen is simply not a viable energy storage medium. It's only being pushed by oil companies who are afraid of people moving away from fossil fuels and refueling at home without them.
Natural gas is more efficient, easier to work with, better for the environment, cheaper, and more readily available than hydrogen. Being that pretty much all commercial hydrogen comes from natural gas anyway you're far better off to just use the natural gas directly.
As stated elsewhere, these are not for the long haul market but the shorter ranges. Also someone in another article, can't find the post anymore, posted something sensible. This is not a US focused truck,its one for the EU. Where drivers are legally obliged to stop and rest every 4 hours or lose their license. So in the EU this could work perfectly as a long haul truck because they have to take a break roughly the size of a charge anyway.
Also here in the Netherlands, and I believe other parts of Europe too, a lot of cities banned (old) diesel vehicles from the city centers.
Tesla actually did have a battery swap station. It turned out to be uneconomical and unpopular.
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Rapid charges are generally good enough, and it's possible to make them even faster with higher charge powers and charger-provided coolant. And with Supercharger v3, there will be a battery buffer in the charger, so the charging station's max power is no longer limited by the grid.
For people talking about the "time wasted stopping to charge", several important points.
1. In the EU, you have to stop frequently. Minimum 45 minutes per 4 1/2 hours for commercial drivers. You can lose your license if you don't. So rapid charging stops aren't a slowdown at all.
2. Paying the driver is under 20% of the cost of shipping by truck, and amortizing the truck's capital cost a bit over 20%. But fuel is around 40% for the total cost (the rest is things like maintenance, insurance, etc). So if you can halve fuel costs in half and slash maintenance, you're cutting a quarter off of your shipping costs, which can more than pay for the additional drivers and trucks to compensate for the ~half an hour charging every ~3 hours.
3. This shouldn't need to be said... because it was in the article... but the guy was talking about regional haul shipping, not long haul. Believe it or not, not every shipment travels thousands of miles.
Now lets bring up the side benefits.
1. An EV drivetrain will be ridiculously powerful. I have little doubt that Tesla will be making these as the most powerful semis in the world, as it's much easier to do with an EV drivetrain. Hills will be laughed off. To be more specific, Tesla has stated that they plan to use the M3's drivetrain (which propels a 1600kg car from 0-60 in 5,1-5,6 seconds) in Tesla... except that they plan to have one motor for each wheel. That's going to be a crazy amount of power. And speaking of hills, they'll recoup the energy on the downslope.
2. Semis waste a huge amount of energy idling, to power accessory loads for the driver and/or the cargo. Because the engines are so large, idling guzzles huge amounts of fuel. A variety of solutions have been come up with over the years, such as auxilliary microgenerators and window-mounted "tethers" at truck stops (TSE) which provide climate control and 120V power for drivers. EVs, however, have what owners often refer to as "camping mode". Since you never have to idle an engine, they use only the power that is needed to provide climate control and accessory loads while you're parked. Sleeping in an EV is a quiet, perfectly climate-controlled experience, and depending on the weather usually only takes 1-2% of the battery per hour if you're not plugged in (nothing if you are).
3. An EV semi would not be affected by noise, pollution, and idling regulations, which limit or prohibit semi access to some areas, and which have become more common with time.
4. While the earlier price analysis was for the US, it's a much more extreme difference in other places in the world. Where I am, for example, diesel is about $7/gal, and they're looking to hike taxes on it soon - it'll probably end up around $8/gal. I don't know what percentage of a fleet operator's costs here are fuel, but it's going to be a lot more than in the US.
5. We're so far just comparing base vehicles. But Tesla is working on value-added features as well, such as EAP and platooning. The latter is, from a technical standpoint, much easier than EAP (locking onto a vehicle and holding position relative to it). Even if you don't take the driver out of the loop, you're saving a ton of energy for the trailing vehicles. Meaning not only reducing costs, but also that you can periodically swap who's the lead vehicle and extend the whole platoon's range.
Versus passenger EVs, semis have a number of other big things going for them.
1. Unlike the passenger vehicle market, the shipping industry is all about the numbers, all about the bottom line - and c
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You got me curious about the amount of power that could be produced by a semi trailer... since as you note, they're almost always outside. The large end of trailer sizes is 2,6m by 17,37m by 4,27m. We'll assume that the top and one long side have an average sun angle of 45 degrees and there's no solar on the front or rear of the trailer (although there could be). The top has an area of 45,16m^2 and the sides an area of 74,17m^2, for a combined area of 119,33m^2. On a sunny day, the angle-adjusted insolation is around 707W/m, so the trailer would be receiving 84,4kW and, at 22% panel efficiency, generating 18,6kW. While that's not enough for a fully "solar powered semi", it's definitely meaningful bonus power (that's enough to entirely power an electric SUV at highway speeds).
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Hang out anywhere that people discuss Teslas. The shorthand for the vehicles is the MS, MX and the M3 (there is no shorthand for the Roadster). Given that the Tesla Model 3 is going to be produced in numbers order of magnitude than the BMW M3 ever was, I'd recommend getting used to it sooner rather than later.
Ever since, I've been suspicious of Jesus and very careful around chlorine.