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AI Can Detect Sexual Orientation Based On Person's Photo (cnbc.com)

ugen shares a report from CNBC: Artificial Intelligence (AI) can now accurately identify a person's sexual orientation by analyzing photos of their face, according to new research. The Stanford University study, which is set to be published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology and was first reported in The Economist, found that machines had a far superior "gaydar" when compared to humans. Slashdot reader randomlygeneratename adds: Researchers built classifiers trained on photos from dating websites to predict the sexual orientation of users. The best classifier used logistic regression over features extracted from a VGG-Face conv-net. The latter was done to prevent overfitting to background, non-facial information. Classical facial feature extraction also worked with a slight drop in accuracy. From multiple photos, they achieved an accuracy of 91% for men and 83% for women (and 81% / 71% for a single photo). Humans were only able to get 61% and 54%, respectively. One caveat is the paper mentions it only used Caucasian faces. The paper went on to discuss how this capability can be an invasion of privacy, and conjectured that other types of personal information might be detectable from photos. The source paper can be found here.

48 of 350 comments (clear)

  1. Alternatively... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe they're getting interference from a gay weather balloon.

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    1. Re:Alternatively... by LifesABeach · · Score: 2

      All the knowledge of the geniuses involved that created this application, and the question they searched for was, "can you tell from this photo of a persons sexual orientation?" Really?

    2. Re: Alternatively... by FreedomFirstThenPeac · · Score: 2
      No, the models are much more sophisticated than this. Gender/sex/affectation are way more complex than you can imagine.

      Sex is pretty simple - (XY vs XX) x (metabolic response to (testosterone family, endocrine family) x (environmental exposure to various chemicals) x Gender x Affectation

      Gender is equally simple - Biological presentation (see Sex) x (cultural presentation) x (physical features) x Sex x Affectation

      Affectation is also pretty simple - (How the person perceives their sexuality/gender) x (How the society perceives their affectation) x Sex x Gender

      Of course, all of these are f(t)'s, so go ahead and apply a simple logistic regression to predict (Sex(t), Gender(t), Affectation(t)), then get back to me.

      --
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  2. Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...definitely applies to this situation. This has some pretty negative implications in particularly homophobic regions. All the more reason not to visit the pacific northwestern US or the middle eastern region in general if this thing gets to be widespread.

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    Furries make the internet go.
    1. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It might have the opposite effect. It is easy to hate a faceless "other". It is harder to be homophobic when you know your friends and relatives are gay.

      One of the reasons that gay acceptance happened so fast is positive feedback. As gays felt more comfortable "coming out", more people realized that "normal" people they knew were gay, leading to even wider acceptance.

    2. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All the more reason not to visit the pacific northwestern US

      Wait, is the Pacific Northwest homophobic? I have some friends that live up in Oregon and they're extremely gay and I never heard them complain about the region being particularly difficult for them. One just sent me a photo taken from his backyard of a mountain being consumed by fire. I'm pretty sure he had nothing to do with that, though, despite the fact that he's flaming.

      (I used this joke with him, too, and he didn't seem to mind. He would have told me if it had offended him.)

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    3. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by skam240 · · Score: 2

      I'll certainly say that I don't know where the parent gets off mentioning the Northwest and not the Southeast but the Northwest does in fact turn very conservative once you get off the coast.

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    4. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Funny

      t'hell with that man, what about the poor fucker who finds out he's gay when the AI tells him? That poor guy's mind is going to snap!

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    5. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Cyberax · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We get plenty of refugees from Kansas and Oklahoma....

    6. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      All the more reason not to visit the pacific northwestern US.

      Damn, you saw through us! All those Gay Pride parades in Seattle, electing a gay Mayor, and rainbow crosswalks were just a clever trap. We're only pretending to be all chill and tolerant, but that's only until all those people finally out themselves, and then we'll have them! Muahahahahah!

      --
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    7. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Alioth · · Score: 3, Informative

      The thing is this won't be very useful for that kind of thing - far too many false positives.

      It's estimated that about 5% of the population is gay. With this thing only having an 81% accuracy rate, this means there will be many more false positives than actual gay people - if you took a room with 100 people in, it would misidentify approximately 19 of the people as the sexual orientation they are not - meaning there would be roughly three times as many people mis-identified as gay than actual gay people. In other words, it's not actually very useful.

    8. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are they screwed up purely because of being gay or are they screwed up from a lifetime of anti gay conditioning and gay persecution causing them to live in fear?

    9. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      hundreds of thousands of them straight from Somalia and Syria

      I see what you did there.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    10. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Dogtanian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So in terms of 'homophobia', do I irrationally fear any of them? No. Do I hate any of them? No. But it's obvious at least half of them are screwed up.

      Knowing that people hate you for your sexuality and getting abuse for it from strangers and (depending on your background) former friends and family? Or alternately that they'd hate you if you were truthful about an unchangeable and fundamental part of yourself that you have to keep covered up every day of your life? (#)

      Hmm, yeah. I guess that sort of thing might screw some people up.

      Oddly, this would suggest that the actual issue is how homosexuals have traditionally been treated...

      And that leads me to the conclusion that it's best not to encourage or approve of homosexual conduct, because it's self-destructive behavior.

      ...making people like you the problem, not homosexuality itself.

      (#) Both of which were the case in most Western societies until recently, and *still* aren't as bad as the hostility homosexuals in many countries continue to face today- e.g. fear of being tortured or killed.

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    11. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by mjr167 · · Score: 4, Informative

      What is the need to distinguish gay from straight?

      It's important if you are looking for a mate.

    12. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's funny, because I've known a few gay people. For at least half of them, it's obvious that there's something deeply wrong with them, and it's tied into their homosexuality (ie, the behavior is either a cause of the obvious dysfunction or an expression of it).

      And I know dozens or maybe even hundreds of gay people (my wife's profession in the arts has led to us meeting many more gay people than "average", I suspect) ... and in my experience there is no higher a percentage of screwed up folks than in the straight community.

      I know its a cliche, but literally some of my best friends are gay & you could not hope to meet nicer, more compassionate, thoughtful, intelligent & stable folks.

      So, your experience is not universal & you should not extrapolate from it.

    13. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 2

      I was assaulted in the MAX line in the tube under Washington Park for holding hands with my boyfriend on the Blue train; had my glasses punched through my right ear and a tooth knocked loose. Police response, even though they got the guy, was "don't be gay, then". This was in 2008.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    14. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 2

      Which is weird, considering Tulsa's a more gay friendly city than Portland. Portland talks the talk on civil rights, but doesn't walk the walk. It does this on a lot of things, really, like livability, cost of living, employment, wage and hour issues...it's amazing it's nothing more than a cattle, ship and railroad yard anymore, but hey... guess Stormfront has to have one win for themselves, eh?

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    15. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's estimated that about 5% of the population is gay.

      Sure, if you take The 700 Club's word for it instead of, say, Kinsey. But hey, both gay and straight people try to ignore that bisexuality exists, or that most people are some degree of bisexual.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    16. Re:Just because you can doesn't mean you should... by Wootery · · Score: 2

      Which doesn't escape from the fact that those orientations are, well, social constructs

      You say that as if it invalidates the concept. It doesn't. Nationality, authority, prestige, liberty, justice, progress, and money, are all social constructs, but they certainly matter. Same goes for sexuality.

      You can say that race too is 'just' a social construct, but it still matters in certain medical contexts.

      More generally: the reason we use imperfect labels (with 'rounding errors' as it were) is that they're useful in practice.

      how you define the categories will throw things off even more than only using Caucasian faces

      This sounds a lot like a continuum fallacy. That the classifications are imperfect doesn't mean the whole project is completely invalidated. Subjects' self-reports are easily good enough to serve as a starting-point.

      (I can see major issues with the study though, like that they used photos from dating sites, which as others have said likely aren't going to be representative of most photos.)

      The odds are pretty good that they did engage in erasure of bisexuals, since that's normal for such research, and I'd be amazed if they even considered the existence of asexuals for this

      That wouldn't make these researchers bigots, as you seem to be implying, it would just make them pragmatists. Fewer categories simplifies the classification problem.

      There is nothing to apologise for when machine-learning researchers decide to make a binary classifier rather than a multiclass classifier.

      never mind that asexual=/=aromantic so you definitely should be finding some on dating sites.

      Oh come on. You realise this kind of minutia-obsession alienates ordinary people, right? The numbers there are so tiny that it just isn't a problem worth worrying about, either for the researchers or for users of dating sites.

  3. Nature vs Nurture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If sexual orientation correlates highly with physical appearance, then I think this conclusively proves that sexual orientation is not a "decision."

    * Unless this is picking up on subtle cues like gay men wearing eyeliner and gay women not wearing makeup. (Similar to lots of how gay men speak with an "affliction" and drive Saabs, while gay women drive Subarus.)

    1. Re:Nature vs Nurture by richardellisjr · · Score: 2

      First off I have a high suspicion this study won't be reproducible. Secondly the TFA has this very interesting paragraph:

      The Stanford University researchers found that gay men and women typically had "gender-atypical" features and expressions. While a person's "grooming style" also factored in to the computer algorithm, essentially suggesting gay women appeared more masculine and vice versa.

      This begs the questions, how much did "grooming style" factor into the apps gaydar, and where did the list of gay and straight "grooming styles" come from?

      On top of all this, TFA doesn't give any details on sample size and I find it difficult to believe they managed to get a large number of pictures of random people... along with the sexual preference of the person.

    2. Re:Nature vs Nurture by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If sexual orientation correlates highly with physical appearance, then I think this conclusively proves that sexual orientation is not a "decision."

      * Unless this is picking up on subtle cues like gay men wearing eyeliner and gay women not wearing makeup. (Similar to lots of how gay men speak with an "affliction" and drive Saabs, while gay women drive Subarus.)

      No, it could be picking up something subtle about a person's facial expression.

      For something that strongly suggests that it isn't just a decision, google homosexual fraternal birth order.

      --
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    3. Re:Nature vs Nurture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sexual orientation is not orientation on which hole you stick your dick in. It's about who you find attractive. Contrary to the stereotypes there are quite a large number of gay men wo don't like anal sex and never do it. There are also hetero couples who do have anal sex. Sexual techniques and sexual orieantation are different things.

    4. Re: Nature vs Nurture by bestweasel · · Score: 2

      The study says that although grooming styles differ, gay men and women also tend to have different facial shapes from their heterosexual counterparts. It looks increasingly likely that God is making gay babies.

  4. Wow do I want a copy of this! by wisebabo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I would LOVE to get a copy of this program and, not only try it out on myself and my friends, (I think we're relatively secure in our sexuality) but try it on famous people.

    Specifically: Republican lawmakers and perhaps even Christian preachers! (How about Mr. Macho himself, Putin?)

    I really, really know I'm going to be down-modded for this but please hear me out. Haven't you wondered why those people who are so against homosexuality often turn out to be gay themselves? (Dennis Hastert and that lawmaker caught in the men's restroom soliciting a cop come to mind). Maybe it's because they are so ashamed that the only way they can bury their feelings is to actively suppress it. That's fine if you don't want to face the truth but the problem is being lawmakers, representatives of God, they infringe on many, many other peoples lives. So let's drag them out of the closet and into the photo booth! (Actually I don't think that'll be necessary, from what little I've read about this algorithm it doesn't require any particular lighting or "orientation" (ha ha) for the photo so many of the pictures of these famous people should be just fine.)

    On a more serious note: This is just the latest in a trend of events which a friend of mine has said is "the end of privacy". With technologies like these (soon I'm sure they'll be able to analyze videos to see, by looking at imperceptible* subtle face color flushing and breathing patterns, who is attracted to whom), social media and the hack of personal databases like Equifax, NOTHING will be able to be kept secret. I wouldn't doubt that the CIA is already using some of this stuff to determine, remotely, if someone is lying on camera when they say something. It will be hard to legislature laws to keep it out of business and impossible to keep out of statecraft.

    *imperceptible to humans

    1. Re:Wow do I want a copy of this! by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      91% accuracy? That's enough for plausible denyability.

      91% accuracy...let's assume that gay men are 10% of all men. So this program will correctly identify 82% of men as straight, and misidentify 8% of straight men as gay. Similarly, it'll identify ~9% of men as gay correctly, and 1% of them as straight (incorrectly)

      So, it'll show ~83% of men as straight and 17% as gay. And half of the gays it identifies will be straight.

      And considerably worse for Lesbians. Much less Bi's...

      In other words, not terribly useful.

      90% accurate sounds like it's really good. But it's only meaningful if the distribution is pretty much even (half straight and half gay gives a pretty solid indicator with this program, but 90+% straight and 10-% gay, not so much). Since it's not an even split between gay and straight, this is a waste of time at this point. Maybe when they get accuracy to 99.9%, they'll have something worth reporting....

      --

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    2. Re:Wow do I want a copy of this! by hey! · · Score: 2

      "91% accuracy" is vague. Is that a 9% false *positive* or the false *negative* rate?
      Let' assume 9% is the false positive AND negative rate.

      The percentage of people in the population who self-identify as gay is 3.8%. Yes, this sounds small but gays have an outsized cultural footprint. If you tested a thousand people, there'd be 38 gays in your sample, and your test would correctly identify 36 of them. Of the 962 straight people in your sample, the test would misidentify 87 as gay.

      The probability that someone flagged by a 91% accurate test as gay actually is gay is 29%, not 91%. That's because non-gays are 25x more common than gays in the general population, allowing the false positives to swamp the true ones.

      This is why screening tests for things like drugs (or in this case gayness) are generally a bad idea. People view test results as a cheap alternative to gathering evidence, but without supporting evidence most test results are wore than useless.

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    3. Re:Wow do I want a copy of this! by swb · · Score: 2

      Years ago I had a rooommate who worked for a local AIDS advocacy group and he said they spent a significant effort targeting a group they identified as "men who have sex with other men but aren't gay". Their logic was that the actual gay community was already getting the message about AIDS, but this group was "outside the envelope" and wasn't exposed to the messages about AIDS *and* a huge potential vector for infection because of promiscuity, denial and so on.

      They were men who identified as straight (and were often married) but also liked or even preferred a male-male sexual experience. My rooommate figured some were just repressed/closeted and some just liked any kind of sex and male-male sex was easy to get, anonymous and disposable. Bisexual in practice, but heterosexual in identification and the rest of their lifestyle.

      As for the right-wingers and others, I'd imagine there's a whole other subtype of men who have sex with men for whom it may be as much about power as any kind of sexual identity. Suborning other men, especially non-gay men, into gay sex is a power and control thing as much as it is about sex, and it has a thrill-seeking/risk component to it, engaging in behavior in secret that they openly disparage.

    4. Re:Wow do I want a copy of this! by Kjella · · Score: 2

      You're assuming accuracy is the only useful measure here. If you hate gays and don't want to hire gays you can reduce the risk of hiring someone gay from 3.8% to 0.09*0.038 = 0.34% simply by not hiring anyone who looks gay. You'll also wrongfully exclude 0.09*0.962 = 8.66% of straight people but you got like 88% of the pool left. That might be entirely acceptable to a bigot.

      That said, dating pictures might reflect different courting rituals between heterosexuals and homosexuals that probably won't show up in a similar degree in say cover letter or passport photos, so I doubt it's useful as a general "gaydar". But it's pretty impressive that computers are able to pick up on such subtle differences and humans not. Then again, how often have humans actually looked at dating pics of people who aren't interested in you? Even bisexuals would look at both men and women interested in their own sex, not the other way around.

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  5. Re: Just because you can doesn't mean you should.. by sg_oneill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ive always said the danger with AI isn't killer robots but killer humans. Machine learning is being used to perpetrate a huge invasion of privacy in the form of "big data" data matching. It's like countless companies , and governments, have deployed armies of robot detectives to sift out or repeat secrets , and not to solve crimes or whatever but to manipulate us into compliant consumers. This particularly feat is even more worrying however because I'm certain theres any number of theocratic fascists regimes , Christian , Muslim and beyond who would be very interested in this. Gay pre-crime , so to speak. Welcome to the future

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  6. Not Significant Accuracy by kenwd0elq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the AI were to simply assign scores of "Straight" to EVERYONE, it would achieve 90% accuracy for men and 85% accuracy for women, since about 90% of men are straight and about 85% of women are straight. So scores of 91% and 85% accuracy are not statistically significant.

    1. Re:Not Significant Accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      They measured the ability to determine which is gay and which is straight among a pair of people (one of each) based on their dating profile pics.

      You did not misread the summery though: the summery is simply wrong, and the article is misleading. The paper makes it clear though.

    2. Re:Not Significant Accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You've lived in some very unrepresentative neighborhoods if you think 12.5% of the human population is gay. Outside of TV shows and movies, mayyybe 4% of the real world population is gay or bisexual.

    3. Re:Not Significant Accuracy by blindseer · · Score: 2

      No, but people who are still in the closet can have a dating profile advertising themselves as straight.

      Why would a closeted gay man bother to go to a dating website and put "hetero" in their profile? I'm confused. These dating sites cost money, right? So, why would they spend money for something they don't even want?

      I'm sure that there are some closeted homosexuals that get hetero dating profiles to "prove" they aren't gay to someone, but that's got to be a number so small that it can be ignored.

      Let's flip this around, would a straight man or woman put homosexual on their dating profile? Would they pay money to advertise this fiction? Maybe. Perhaps they would do this as some sort of "joke". Although I'm not sure who the joke would be on. Some might say this isn't a fair comparison since hetero people aren't as discriminated against as homosexuals have been. What we are talking about though is a world where people are comfortable enough with gay people about that there are websites that allow gay people to date each other. I'm pretty sure we are past any kind of real discrimination here that it'd have any real effect on the testing.

      My point being assigning everyone as "straight" and expecting that to give high accuracy based on some figures doesn't make it true, because what you're comparing the AI's results to can be incorrect just as easily.

      We're comparing a computer algorithm on being gay or straight based on what people put in a dating profile. If they are lying to the computer then they are lying to themselves. In which case this is a distinction without a difference. If they say they are gay, and looking for other gay men and women to date, then that's about as close to "gay" as a definitive answer as you'll ever going to find.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    4. Re:Not Significant Accuracy by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Kinsey Report indicates a rate of 10% to 20% gay orientation in the population (for the Kinsey Report, orientation is a scale, not a binary assessment).

      On the other hand, the Kinsey Report also says that 8% of men and 3.6% of women have had sex with animals... one of its less popular findings, you could say...

      The Kinsey Report when reviewed later was found to have assumed a much higher rate of lieing by those who were gay than really happens in "anonymous" surveys. Allowing for this exaggeration the number came down to about 3-4 % with the same data.

  7. Re:Sexual orientation of participants? by blindseer · · Score: 2

    Gay people can distinguish other gay people with MUCH greater frequency than straight people can.

    I have no doubt. After being in the Army I can "smell" military experience on people. People in general can see things in others that they have experienced themselves.

    Little things can tell people a lot. I learned from living in Texas that the plural of "you" is not "y'all". The proper way to address a group is "all y'all". The people that don't get that right are not from Texas. Maybe they are from Arizona, or Mississippi, I don't know because I haven't been to those states.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  8. Worst idea ever. by DMJC · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This technology should be destroyed and the research should be buried. It could easily end up in Middle Eastern countries where they would use it to kill people based on the algorithm. Usually I don't support suppressing technology, but this is seriously a bad idea.

  9. The RCMP is going to be happy by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... they finally got their fruit machine...

  10. Massively Flawed by ewhac · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This study saw some traffic on the Book of Faces last night. I'm not trained in the field of sociology, but between me and my sweetie we were able to spot massive flaws in what will almost certainly be revealed to be a complete piece of shit.

    First off, what they claim to have created is tantamount to computer-assisted phrenology -- long since debunked and tossed on the scrapheap of superstition.

    The most obvious flaw appears here, starting on line 208:

    Facial images. We obtained facial images from public profiles posted on a U.S. dating website. We recorded 130,741 images of 36,630 men and 170,360 images of 38,593 women between the ages of 18 and 40, who reported their location as the U.S. Gay and heterosexual people were represented in equal numbers. Their sexual orientation was established based on the gender of the partners that they were looking for (according to their profiles). [emphasis mine]

    *headdesk*

    Leaving aside the gigantic issues presented by self-reporting and self-selecting samples, these idiots failed to account for a common practice among hetero women on dating sites, which is to falsely claim to be seeking other women as a means to reduce or eliminate an onslaught of tacky propositions from clueless het-boys.

    Other glaring flaws include:

    • All subjects caucasian.
    • No attempt made to account for (or even acknowledge the existence of) bisexuality, transgendered individuals, or asexuals, the latter of whom likely wouldn't be on a dating site.
    • No attempt made to account for economic status and history (wealthier people ~= healthier, affecting physiognomy).
    • No attempt made to account for cosmetic surgery or other such treatments.

    An actual sociologist could probably identify dozens of other flaws, any one of which would be fatal to the work.

    I would undertake to create a similar piece of software that tries to identify criminals from photographs, and use police mugshots to train it. Surprise! Black people are more likely to be criminals! GIGO.

    Frankly, I think they should have taken their theme from the closing paragraphs of their paper: "We created a digital phrenologist out of deep neural networks and other off-the-shelf parts that coughs up results that seem relevant and meaningful to the layman, when in fact they're utter garbage." That would have been a good paper.

    Perhaps we can indeed learn new things by letting a DNN stare at human faces. But IMHO this paper is utterly valueless in identifying what those might be. GIGO.

    1. Re:Massively Flawed by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      these idiots failed to account for a common practice among hetero women on dating sites

      I'm sure this is a big concern on their statistics on male pictures.

      All subjects caucasian.

      Not a flaw, just a variable reduction for the purpose of the study.

      No attempt made to account for (or even acknowledge the existence of) bisexuality, transgendered individuals, or asexuals, the latter of whom likely wouldn't be on a dating site.

      So no attempt to account for something which likely reduces the results of their accuracy (which wasn't perfect) combined with a trait that would automatically have been excluded based on the source material? Whoop de fucking do.

      No attempt made to account for economic status and history

      Errr so gay people only look gay if they are rich?

      No attempt made to account for cosmetic surgery or other such treatments.

      Something that would likely emphasise the exact traits they were looking for?

      Honestly they had one criteria: judge if people look gay based on self reporting in a way likely to achieve the correct response rate of the target group, and the computer did it better than a person.

      You're looking for things to complain about by making the study something that it isn't. In other news the damn IPCC study on climate change can't answer why my finger hurts when I cut it with a knife. Clearly the climate science is flawed.

    2. Re:Massively Flawed by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      these idiots failed to account for a common practice among hetero women on dating sites, which is to falsely claim to be seeking other women as a means to reduce or eliminate an onslaught of tacky propositions from clueless het-boys.

      So how exactly does that gambit work for hetero women seeking men? Is this a thing that clued-in men know about? Some secret signaling that says "my profile says woman seeking woman, but I really want guys?" Do they not get an even tackier group of responses from bros hoping they'll hit a jackpot with a lesbian with a secret yen for yang and possibly a FFM threesome? What about fending off the lesbians who take it seriously?

      And then there's the whole potential for lack of response, eliminating non-gross men who think cruising the women seeking women section is tacky and a waste of effort.

      I mean, I'm genuinely curious here, if this is really a thing.

    3. Re:Massively Flawed by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So how exactly does that gambit work for hetero women seeking men? Is this a thing that clued-in men know about? Some secret signaling that says "my profile says woman seeking woman, but I really want guys?"

      Dating websites generally require you to fill out a profile before you're allowed to approach other members. Women seeking men who fill out women seeking women on the website are among the 80% of women chasing 20% of the men. Those 20% know the deal, because they get approached on an hourly basis, and every single woman disclaims her orientation tag in her approach. Those women don't want to be approached at all. They want to do the approaching.

    4. Re:Massively Flawed by swb · · Score: 2

      OK, I get where that works if your use of a dating site is strictly for sex -- good looking women hunting good looking men mostly for sex can get away with a W4W profile. It either makes them look zestier to good looking guys or the guys just disregard it completely.

      But I'd have to think that there's some kind of selection bias that would result here, like they would be inclined to just attract men who only care about good looking women, which again is fine if sex is your desired outcome. But ultimately wouldn't it wind up resulting in some pretty empty actual dating situations?

      While I buy in general the 80% of women seeking 20% of men concept, my sense is there is a kind of rough statistical parity between men and women in terms of attractiveness. 80% of women *aren't* as uniformly attractive as the top 20% of men are, and half or more of those women in the 80% group will either be unsuccessful or have bad experiences.

      And then there's the idea that the elite 20% of women by attractiveness -- why bother with online dating at all? They are the eponymous "head turners" who probably have no problem in finding appealing partners in normal social activities. Which maybe means that the "80% of women" idea is really not 80% of all women, it's like the women who are between 4-8 on the 10 scale. The 6-8s are generally good looking, but not competitive with the 8-10s but so much more competitive than the 4-6s that they can really choose to be picky.

      The 4-6s seem like the ones who are kidding themselves. They overrate themselves greatly and really ought to be shopping on personality and secondary qualities with attractiveness of their partner as something they're willing to compromise on. They're confusing men's general desire for sex with their own ego.

  11. Re:Right by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 2

    Als like their smooth and smoky Scotch in a quiet bar.

    Not all of them. I once met an AI which really enjoyed electronic music and tap water. Its significant other was a quite outgoing toaster with a weirdly deep knowledge about fly-crocodile mating. Curiously, I firstly met that colorful couple in a let's-ban-all-AI meeting organised by a hating-itself robot which I brought to life just for fun. LOL.

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    Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
  12. 9% error on 1.5-6% population sample is really bad by abies · · Score: 2

    I would hardly call heavy makeup for a man a 'subtle' clue...

    Anyway, 91% accuracy is complete disaster. While there is a common feeling that 10% of population is gay, more realistic studies (like ones referenced at https://www.theguardian.com/po...), claim between 1.5% and 6%. Even taking highest percentage into account (one provided by pro-gay organization), of 6%, I can write simple gaydar app which will tell 'straight' 100% of time and it will be right 96% of time.

    You cannot take a single measure with x% of error to gain meaningful information about things which occur x% of time. It can be a screening test, but not a final answer. Simple example is machine which detects some rare disease and is wrong only 1% of the time. If disease happens for 1 person in million, when machine says you are ill, you have only 0.1% chance of being actually ill and 99.9% of chances that machine was wrong. What you can later do, is to put these 10000 people for more expensive/detailed/invasive tests, but not to start treating them for that disease outright.

  13. Re: Just because you can doesn't mean you should. by sound+vision · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The algorithm was trained on pictures from dating sites, which isn't exactly a representative data set. A large portion of the pictures have been manipulated or at least carefully selected by the person who uploaded them. There are a portion of gays who try to signal their gayness through things like styling and mannerisms, which would be easy for an algorithm to pick up on. These types are going to be overrepresented in the data set.

  14. Re: Just because you can doesn't mean you should. by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 2

    If you are a Female, looking for a Male, do you really need this? A gay man wont date you. No shit. No need for a "facial scan" to tell me to avoid someone who is going to say NO anyway

    No, but if you're a guy, looking for a guy, getting this wrong in the new deep south like Portland or Seattle will cost you teeth. Guess how I know?

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    Furries make the internet go.