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China Builds World's Largest EV Charging Network With 167,000 Stations (247wallst.com)

"It soon will become easier to charge a Chevy Bolt or Tesla in China," reports 24/7 Wall Street, citing reports from China's official newspaper that they've built the highest number of electric-car charging facilities in the world, offering "the broadest coverage, and the most advanced technology." AmiMoJo quotes their announcement: A total of 167,000 charging piles have now been connected to the telematics platform of the State Grid Corporation of China, making it the world's largest electric vehicle (EV) charging network. By cooperating with 17 charging station operators, the SGCC now offers more than 1 million kilowatt-hours of power each day.
24/7 Wall Street says the ambitious (and government-subsidized) plan "is bound to help electronic car adoption since most vehicles in the category have ranges well under 300 miles."

18 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by RhettLivingston · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The strategy appears to be to lock in local producers for the bulk EV market while only letting foreign companies succeed at the high end and then to scale up quickly. Once they've achieved large scale production in the world's largest market, then they will seek to dominate the foreign markets. They will also have more of an excuse to use their own rare metals and charge higher prices to export them. Smart.

    EV dominance will have side benefits in many other tech and energy spheres. It's an investment with potential similar to our Apollo investment half a century ago.

    1. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most of it is just due to western manufacturers falling behind.

      For example, around 80% of new busses in China are electric, and by 2020 it will be close to 100%. How many western bus manufacturers even offer serious hybrids, let alone fully electric models? Who even makes a 450kWh battery, except the Chinese?

      On the personal vehicle side, few manufacturers outside China make models that are affordable in China, or even that affordable in the west. If it wasn't for the kind of "protectionism" that people complain about the Chinese doing, i.e. safety regulations and import duty, the west would be flooded with cheap Chinese cars. They are already popular in some places, e.g. a lot of Taxi drivers in London have been buying BYD electric vehicles for a few years now.

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    2. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      The US falls further behind because anyone who participates in 'cooperation' is immediately called a communist and shunned from society.

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    3. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > The US falls further behind because anyone who participates in 'cooperation' is immediately called a communist and shunned from society.

      You are confusing "cooperation" with "mandatory participation" enforced at the barrel of a gun. Nothing is stopping YOU personally from making better choices. The truth is that American consumerism is at odds with what needs to get done here.

      It's also a lot easier to get things done when you can just boss everyone around and not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.

      I bet their trains run on time too.

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    4. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      > Who even makes a 450kWh battery, except the Chinese?

      Who makes ANYTHING these days? Where have you been exactly? THIS is why China is the most important country when it comes to pollution. The rest of the developed world has outsourced their dirty industries there.

      Actually MAKING stuff in the US is like Trumpie crazy talk.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    5. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.

      I am not sure what "literacy" has to do with any of this, but China has a literacy rate of 96.4%. America's literacy rate is 97.9%. So they are not very different.

    6. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by RhettLivingston · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is a travesty that we miss so many low-flying opportunities. For example, the US school bus fleet is huge and generally terminal based. They almost never refuel anywhere but at their terminal. There would be zero need for refueling stations away from the terminals for the vast majority of school buses. They should be well on their way to being fully electric already.

    7. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by haruchai · · Score: 2

      And the US falls further behind because of the red states and Supreme Leader Cheeto...

      When the only candidates that the opposition party can come up with are a vile cunt and a communist Jew, this is what you get.

      Either of those would have been a more sensible choice than Trump. Serves me right for thinking no Republican dumber than Dubya would ever get into high office. Then Texas elected Rick Perry & the GOP base coalesced around Trump over 20 other candidates and they & every senior Republican proceeded to go full hypocrite on their supposed principles.

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    8. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Those school buses are used to transport school football teams to away games, which in some places is 100 miles away.

      School districts big enough to have lots of buses still don't have electric buses though, even though they only need a handful of buses capable of going on long trips. However, this is probably because such vehicles are expensive, and not because they wouldn't like to have them.

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    9. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by RhettLivingston · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're right, the football teams get the money. That's why they charter real buses these days instead of taking the school buses. In fact, I've seen many cases in which they've done so because people complained about the school's resources being used for team travel.

    10. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by blindseer · · Score: 2

      I think that's a really bad idea and I'll tell you why. I live in a fairly rural part of the USA. When I was riding a school bus to school it would be a 40 minute ride all over the county. There were probably a dozen or so school buses for the school. How large of a battery would this bus need to run this route? How much would that cost? What kind of infrastructure would the school need to recharge those batteries? If you're going to recharge all those buses, and it takes hours for them to charge, then each bus will need a charger at a non-trivial expense.

      I don't know how many miles the routes were for the buses. If my route was typical at 40 minutes, and the bus averaged 20 miles per hour, then that's just 80 miles from first stop (the school) to the last (my house). Then there's a few more miles for getting to and from the terminal, add some reserve, and it needs a range of perhaps 100 miles or so, as a rough estimate. It has to do this five days a week, 30+ weeks each year. That's got to be rough on any battery.

      I recall hearing on the radio last summer that the local schools would be staggering their school days so that they could share buses and drivers. So instead of running just two routes per day (morning and afternoon), they'd run four or six. How many miles is that now? How big would that battery have to be?

      Then there is the problem of winter. Even though they had a very large diesel engine to derive heat from the buses were often quite cold. How is an electric school bus going to keep the children warm when it's below freezing outside? We'd still have school on days when it's 40 below zero, below that they usually called a "snow day" since it wasn't safe for the children and hard on the buses.

      Then there is just the matter that school buses are already very expensive and therefore must be used for a very long time to justify the expense, usually about 10 years. How long will an electric bus last? Until they've been proven for at least one life cycle I don't expect schools to adopt them in any significant numbers. Which then gets us into a catch-22, no one is going to adopt them until someone else does first. The company that wants in this market will have to give the first ones away, or even pay a school to take them.

      --
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    11. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Most of it is just due to western manufacturers falling behind.

      This indeed! We're starting to see electric buses deployed where I live. The company? BYD. Lovely quiet Chinese electric busses. There's even two BYD cars outside my building. I think the guys on the floor above us work for them.

      Private fleets are going electric too. Schipol airport in Amsterdam has an electric bus fleet ... BYD again. Sydney has an electric bus fleet ... BYD. Brisbane Australia is getting an electric bus fleet too, Toro but apparently that's a joint venture with BYD.

      The Chinese are eating the west's lunch and gaining a serious first mover advantage here while Volvo, MAN, etc are resting on their laurels.

       

    12. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      If it wasn't for the kind of "protectionism" that people complain about the Chinese doing, i.e. safety regulations and import duty

      Right, because those are the only kinds of protectionism the Chinese engage in. And they should be allowed to call powdered plastic milk if they want, because it's part of their tradition or something.

      --
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    13. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by oobayly · · Score: 2

      Not that I'm really disagreeing with you - rural areas are a massive obstacle when it comes to electric vehicles (and public spending is another obstacle) - but to nit pick some of your numbers. 80 miles isn't a out of the question for a vehicle with lots of battery space nowadays (add 50% to get 120 miles as the route is circular). Also you only get to travel 13 miles at 20mph over 40 minutes. Either your school trip took 4 hours, your bus travelled at an average of 120mph, or you lived a lot closer to school than you thought!

  2. 1 million kilowatt-hours of power by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is the equivalent of 12-40 large fuel trucks depending on how you count efficiency. @121MJ/L

  3. Re:The math does not work by RhettLivingston · · Score: 2

    I was just noticing the same thing. There are a lot of suspicious aspects of the original article. The direction I was coming at it was to consider how many 50 kWH charges you could deliver (assuming that people aren't always on empty when they charge) - 20,000. So, on any given day, only 1/8th or so of the stations would be getting used even once.

    That got me looking for the original article which I think may be this one.

    It appears that around 40,000 of the claimed 167000 are SGCC's piles. The others are from the 17 cooperating station operators. In any case, this is enough to make me think that they are talking real stations and not counting stations people have installed at home which was my initial suspicion.

    The only explanations I can think of are that the numbers are wrong or the numbers are correct and the stations are there for the rare circumstance where someone is using an EV to travel between cities or didn't get a full charge at home.

    My guess is that the latter is true. China has new EV sales of more than 40,000 vehicles per month and they have to be getting charged somewhere. That somewhere is likely at home with travel contained to the city.

    This is a population that was almost exclusively riding bikes a couple of decades ago. They likely still organize themselves in a fashion that puts them a bike ride away from everything they do.

  4. Re:China Doing what America Can't by RhettLivingston · · Score: 2

    It is not good to think of China as communist when thinking about world trade and management matters.

    At the national level, perhaps China is the ultimate capitalist competitor. They act in the self-interest of the nation of China - not in a communist-like belief that all of the nations of the world should be equal.

    When you view nations as actors instead of people, there is zero communism in the way China trades as an entity. The international market is capitalist and China enjoys a greater ability to decisively manage their participation in that market because they are acting more cohesively internally. This leads to the ability to be more ruthless seekers of profits externally.

  5. Re:China Doing what America Can't by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    China has been letting more capitalism into their internal system anyway. They're growing their upper class, and beginning to create a sizable middle class — only a small percentage of their population has to improve their lot to create a large number of consumers. And relevantly, their auto industry is finally getting to the point where they can design and build a car that someone might want to drive without a ton of help from outsiders.

    --
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