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China Orders Bitcoin Exchanges In Capital City To Close (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from BBC: China is moving forward with plans to shut down Bitcoin exchanges in the country, starting with trading platforms in key cities. All Bitcoin exchanges in Beijing and Shanghai have been ordered to submit plans for winding down their operations by 20 September. The move follows the Chinese central bank's decision to ban initial coin offerings in early September. Top exchange BTCC said it would stop trading at the end of the month. Chinese authorities decided to ban digital currencies as part of a plan for reducing the country's financial risks. All exchanges are required to send regulators a detailed "risk-free" plan of how they intend to exit the market before 18:30 local time on Wednesday 20 September. The regulator also ordered the exchanges to submit DVDs containing all user trading and holding data to the local authorities. Shareholders, controllers, executives, and core financial and technical staff of exchanges are also required to remain in Beijing during the shutdown and to co-operate fully with authorities.
"It's different this time!"
*pop*
oh
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
The "crash" started on September 12th its "peak" was on September 15th, when a BTC was traded for a bit below 3K USD.
It immediately recovered 3h later and had a dip to around 3500 on September 17th. Right now it's being traded for 3918 USD.
I wouldn't bet on its demise just yet.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
Artificial means man-made. All currency is man-made.
All value is based on what the two parties think it's worth. At this point the market thinks $4,000 for a Bitcoin is totally worth it.
And don't whip out Tulips out your ass.. False comparison since Tulips have a shelf-life and no technical use.
I would not bet on its demise nor would I bet on it holding its value. The impact of the chinese shutdown is yet to be felt, it will depend heavily on how much dodgy money was being funnelled through bitcoin as a way to hide money leaving china, that impact won't be known for a while yet, nor will the impact of exchanges handing over all the details of buyers and sellers.
Corrupt Chinese businessmen already have a great money laundering scheme for getting money out of the country.
Have a look at property prices in Australia and New Zealand, (there are probably other places too).
Added bonus (in NZ anyway), no capital gains tax.
Another added bonus, make friends with the right people, and you can be a citizen.
Nothing suspicious about that though, oh no.
The "crash" started on September 12th its "peak" was on September 15th, when a BTC was traded for a bit below 3K USD. It immediately recovered 3h later and had a dip to around 3500 on September 17th. Right now it's being traded for 3918 USD.
I wouldn't bet on its demise just yet.
Yes. The crash to end all crashes.
It's happened before.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Submit a bitcoin miner on dvd to the local authorities... :P
[($)]
I would not bet on its demise nor would I bet on it holding its value. The impact of the chinese shutdown is yet to be felt, it will depend heavily on how much dodgy money was being funnelled through bitcoin as a way to hide money leaving china, that impact won't be known for a while yet, nor will the impact of exchanges handing over all the details of buyers and sellers.
If the exchanges are closed Bitcoin cannot we cashed out in the Chinese market. That being said, I don't see how this will have any effect on the current price of Bitcoin outside of maintaining it's holding value until those same markets reopen.
The big "dump" took place after the first announcement in China. At this point however the currency is maintaining its stable value. I don't see any major changes in the near future outside of the value increasing. It's a matter of time I suppose.
Source?
Here is a pro property bubble website claiming that Chinese investment into Australia is about 31 billion per year.
An additional 31 billion into a finite resource increases prices across the board. What is your logic for claiming it has no effect?
My source.
Considering Bitcoin's ENTIRE market cap is equal to only two years worth of Chinese offshore investment in Australia must say something, just not sure what exactly.
This is way, way more than a shut down of bitcoin by the government of China, this is a mass fishing expedition for crimes facilitated by the use of bitcoin. The government of China look set to be making use of bitcoin as a flag for criminal activity and doing major crime data mining to pursue those who have used bitcoin in China to facilitate crime. Depending upon how well they do, will drive how soon other countries follow suit. Way more dangerous than a simply shut down.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Invest $1 million in a new business (or $500K if it is in "targetted employment area") and you get an EB-5 visa.
This is smart policy. We send money to China in exchange for containers full of Walmart merchandise, and then the money flows back into America as investments by Chinese who then become American residents. Win win.
31 billion is tiny in the overall scheme of the Australian market. Even the Article claims the expected drop of $16 billion from the DECLINING chinese investment is unlikely to have much impact
The Australian residential property market has a total capitalisation of about 6 trillion. However, on average, properties are held for 10 years (Source), so a good estimate for the yearly turnover is 600 billion. 31 billion (excluding money channelled through tax havens) is 5% of total turnover, which is concentrated in Sydney and Melbourne.
If you add an extra 5% in demand, it will absolutely push prices up by more than that 5%, because people will bid higher to purchase houses.
I chose that link because the source (Fairfax) has a vested interest in keeping property prices high and downplaying the impact of Chinese investment (their only profitable division is Domain, their real estate group). Fairfax have a vested interest in downplaying the role of Chinese investment as their business model benefits from high property prices - population pressures in major cities are causing increasing levels of racism in Australia right now, and blowback against Chinese investment could reduce their slice of the money flowing through the property market.
As I posted elsewhere, the Australian residential property market has a total capitalisation of about 6 trillion, and properties are held for an average of 10 years (Source), so a good estimate for the yearly turnover is 600 billion. 31 billion (excluding money channelled through tax havens) is 5% of total turnover, which is concentrated in Sydney and Melbourne. The decline they are projecting is a wild-ass guess given statistics for the year aren't available yet.
If you add an extra 5% in demand for a finite resource, it will absolutely make a difference to prices, because people will bid higher to purchase houses. Do you have any evidence that it won't; or are you going off gut feel?
That's because you obviously have not done too much thinking on how money laundering via bitcoin in China works. The best way of getting caught red-handed as someone trying to move money out of country with BC would have been to immediately start cashing out everything you have. That would've caused a large dent in the value of BC and it'd have also meant that it's more likely for your operation to be spotted (don't be naive and think the Chinese are only monitoring exchanges inside their borders).
The Chinese own a significant portion of all BC currently in circulation. This means if they all decide to cash out and stop using BC the price can come down a lot, but it won't happen overnight because that'd just be a bad move for the investors that want their money out. If the chinese government cannot be persuaded into reversing their policies, it's likely that the Chinese BC investors will start slowly liquidating their BC over the next year(s) which would have a notable impact on the demand of BC globally, thereby affecting its value negatively.
The fact that no immediate crash was seen after the announcement is not proof that the value will remain stable.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
The Chinese own a supermajority of the hashing rate on the Bitcoin network. Which means that not long after this crackdown on exchanges happens, we will see the same thing happen to miners, if it isn't already in progress. And that gets complicated when it turns out China isn't shutting down the miners, but rather having them come under government regulation and control, perhaps leading to modified mining software that the Party can use to artificially imbalance the worldwide bitcoin network. This could be done to literally destroy the currency; disrupt the network for purposes of value manipulation, whether rewriting transaction logs, double spending coins, etc.
There are a lot of far more insidious long term purposes to the Chinese crackdown on BTC, but the real concern is that the West is going to follow, at which point virtual currencies will only make sense via dark networks, likely ones that are not using commercial network infrastructure (since it is all monitored now.)
Corrupt Chinese businessmen already have a great money laundering scheme for getting money out of the country. Have a look at property prices in Australia and New Zealand, (there are probably other places too).
They've definitely gone up in Hong Kong too, to the detriment of locals. Hong Kong was already a challenging place to live in due to sky high property prices before mainlanders started messing with the local property market. It's gotten much worse in recent years, which some didn't think was possible.
The first rule of a fiat currency is that you must compel people to use it. Even if that means shutting down access to other currencies (china today) or making trading in precious metals illegal (USA, 1933). Bonus points from making the world use your fiat currency (USA 1947), and by the way, you may have to invade other countries of start a few coups along the way to ensure they continue to use your fiat currency.
Really, nothing to see here......