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Amazon 'Reviewing' Its Website After It Suggested Bomb-Making Items (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Amazon said on Wednesday that it was reviewing its website after a British television report said the online retail giant's algorithms were automatically suggesting bomb-making ingredients that were "Frequently bought together." The news is particularly timely in Britain, where the authorities are investigating a terrorist attack last week on London's Underground subway system. The attack involved a crude explosive in a bucket inside a plastic bag, and detonated on a train during the morning rush. The news report is the latest example of a technology company drawing criticism for an apparently faulty algorithm. Google and Facebook have come under fire for allowing advertisers to direct ads to users who searched for, or expressed interest in, racist sentiments and hate speech. Growing awareness of these automated systems has been accompanied by calls for tech firms to take more responsibility for the contents on their sites. Amazon customers buying products that were innocent enough on their own, like cooking ingredients, received "Frequently bought together" prompts for other items that would help them produce explosives, according to the Channel 4 News.
If that's the case, then it's not a problem. You're just showing ads for plastic buckets to people who don't want to build a bomb. I suspect the worry is that the algorithm might actually be working. In which case it's still not a problem. Once you have the recipe for a plastic bucket bomb, finding the bucket isn't a major obstacle.
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I suspect most of these suggestions are based on actual purchase histories or at least browsing histories--these are data trends. What does this say about consumers?
I highly doubt Amazon hired staff to curate product groupings since that's not feasible for all products. These are data trends and Amazon is simply displaying them. Now, Amazon has to go in an *actually curate* nasty product grouping relationships to create an exclusion list. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I suppose.
that they are frequently bought together ?
If so, that should be a big clue as to who is building them.
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
Looks like you're building a pipe bomb. Would you also like some acid to throw in white women's faces in case it doesn't go off? How about a fidget spinner in case both of your attacks fail?
Amazon thinks I now have very strange collections of things that you never need more than one of, like cable modems and whole-house dehumidifiers...
I should put something clever here. Maybe someday.
You can still get "The Anarchist Cookbook" on Amazon, which is the number one bestseller in Anarchism.
Oh my gosh, Elon Mask was right!
In recent days amazon has been found to be deleting reviews of Hillary Clinton book that are negative - they justify this by saying that "no one could have read the book that fast" yet they don't block the great reviews from people who have had the same amount of access to the book as the negative reviewers.
If you take away the ability of people to speak freely, leaving them with the perception of censorship***, they will find other, very terrible ways to communicate their thoughts...and suggesting bombs at the same time is something that is actually genuinely frightening.
***I know amazon is not a government and therefore cant "censor" but it can give the perception thereof because of the sheer power they do hold.
A 1962 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica also contains wonderful recipes for explosives. They explain how to make gunpowder, guncotton, and nitroglycerin.
The algorithm isn't faulty. It works exactly as designed. But it is also completely blind to the deeper meaning of the result. Take this as a cautionary tale against all software-augmented decision making. Software is not inherently fair and impartial. It just blindly follows a rigid set of rules that don't include any moral values. And sometimes, the developer may have even made the rules intentionally malicious.
To be fair, it sounds like yet another case of pattern matching without human level oversight working too well. If you want actual bugs look at the fake baby registry emails sent out yesterday in mass.
Also bought C4.
I'm of mixed feelings about this because my first thought was that in a free capitalistic society, shouldn't people be able to buy whatever they want and shouldn't companies be allowed make it easier for them so they get the sale?
Thinking about the *real* world however, this is clearly a missed opportunity for law-enforcement/intelligence agencies to get a list of potential terrorists from Amazon. Not only do you have the opportunity to request (hopefully with the approval of a judge) not only the name of somebody you should be aware of, but their address, contact information and credit card.
I suspect that there was a process in place for Amazon to report customers buying these "recommended items" but the NYT has now botched the program.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Clippy: "It looks like you're trying to make a bomb..."
Table-ized A.I.
But will Amazon's review of the website be deleted since it is not a verified purchase?
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If we know someone is building bombs by what they are buying and we disrupt the algorithm from suggesting the next items they need I think we are wasting an opportunity. For instance, the algorithm could be set to record, track, and alert law enforcement when these items are purchased together. Duh?
In addition, how about sending faulty items? Maybe the ordered containers where the bomb reactants mix is clandestinely impregnated with a chemical agent that reduces the expected explosion to deflagration. I cant wait to see the review on that one. "My chemical bomb didn't go off, saving the lives of 50 orphans in Kahare. 1 star, wouldn't buy again."
Also, for the racist angle, how nice would it be if certain retailers marketed certain items ONLY to racists identified by the algorithm. That blue and yellow Tag Hauer watch is only suggested to people who also bought KKK hoods. You know, that sort of thing.
This just proves my rule. If you go with your gut reaction of rejection you will ALWAYS miss opportunities to address the underlying problem. Step back, assess what is going on, get connected to what you are committed to, and understand why your reaction was so strongly against this thing. Once you have dispassionately examined yourself and the situation devise an answer that works for what you are committed to, rather than against what you are opposed to. It's a small adjustment that makes a world of difference in the end.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
Yes that's actually the definition of terrorism, depending on which side you are sitting. For the oppressive government they will be terrorists and for the oppressed masses they will be freedom fighters/ rebels.
So I just searched Amazon for Potassium Nitrate/KNO3 after seeing that Charcoal powder was in the reporter's recommended list. Sure enough: Sulfur Powder came up in the "recommended" list.
Context:
The UK is a nanny state that will likely ban the sale of Battery Acid in the next 2-3 years because they reactionarily ban anything deemed remotely dangerous. Pointy kitchen knives, guns, fireworks, gunpowder, paintball guns, bb-guns, airsoft guns. The UK bans folding knives that lock open for fucks sake.
Here's why this isn't a bad thing:
The fact that you can find the precursors to manufacture homemade black powder is pretty much irrelevent. In the United States, anyone over the age of 18 can buy smokeless powder/nitrocellulose for reloading. The number of people killed as a consequence of this fact is dwarfed by the number of people killed by shark attacks.
A naive/wide-eyed news reporter exploiting fear after current events to drum up a lame news story about Amazon's "frequently bought together" algorithm is just noise.
Now with Amazon Prime and One-Click Ordering your IED gets next-day shipping for free!
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I bought a few rolls of duct tape from amazon and it suggested cable ties, rope and heavy duty tie down loops. How many people need to buy a full kidnap kit from amazon for this to register as "Items frequently bought together"?
It's a problem because someone might freak out and give you bad PR. Remember this is happening in a universe where ad companies get shit for having the capacity to target whatever people think of targeting, so you get to blame them for racist advertising. And if someone can be blamed for something, then that means someone will do it. And if blame happens to you then you lose.
Ethical people know that you aren't responsible for other peoples' decisions, but ethical people are a minority in America. Socially, you are considered fully responsibile for other people's decisions, as long as I can make a half-assed stupid case for it. (Once I come up with my bullshit, people will be looking at you, not me.) If I go rape a baby and I can find some hilariously far-fetched way to argue that it's your fault, then most people will agree that it was your fault.
That's a problem that you have to react to. So you need to spend your time tracking all the latest silly reasons for why someone might blame you for anything, and counter them. Facebook and Google need to remove the capacity to be useful to certain people in certain ways, and Amazon needs to never suggest any shopping item that someone might twist into explaining as a bad thing.
Or else some piece-of-shit scumbag will find a way to blame Amazon what someone else decided to buy and use, and they'll suddenly be fighting boycotts, increased regulation, etc.
Remember: people aren't responsible for their actions; someone else is. Any time you forget this basic social law of America, you will leave yourself vulnerable.
If you live somewhere with a "tyrannical government" just how likely are you to be shopping for bomb making materials on Amazon? Even if you could put in the order, do you really think you'd ever get your shipment delivered? I mean, it's not the 5 gallon pail that's the active ingredient here.
Let me say it again: if you are shopping on Amazon for bomb parts and you reasonably believe your shipment will be delivered, you are a terrorist. At least in the minds of almost everyone else living around you. Because if you lived somewhere that actually wasn't free, you wouldn't a) have Amazon to shop at, and b) have a hope in hell that your real bomb parts would be delivered.
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This approach works for you but Amazon has to worry what the misinformation bureau has been telling everyone else. It's tricky to try to run a popular nation-wide business if a large fraction of the public is pretty sure that you're horrible. (Yes, Ticketmaster and Comcast can do it, but that doesn't mean it generalizes. Some businesses live on the heat, but some want to look good.)
BTW, the whole "Rebels overthrowing the tyrannical government" is far too old-school American. You damn well know that 90% of today's Republicans and Democrats would call rebels "terrorists." If you aren't kneeling before your government and begging for its cock in your mouth, you're one of the bad guys.
If you need to use "bought together" to find out how to make your bomb you probably shouldn't be doing it.
bin that marketplace!
Isn't that interesting? #goforkenda
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Still doesn't explain why it offers me Vaseline when I order duct tape.
Yep, anyone with a good fifth grade education can build a bomb. There is only one answer ! Absolute ignorance. somewhere around the fifth grade bright students are able to put together various facts that enable bomb building and frankly they don't even have to buy anything suspicious. And Lord help you if you have an eighth grader with a strong interest in chemistry. The only answer is to keep all people in absolute ignorance and spy on them in their homes relentlessly.
If you live somewhere with a "tyrannical government" just how likely are you to be shopping for bomb making materials on Amazon? Even if you could put in the order, do you really think you'd ever get your shipment delivered? I mean, it's not the 5 gallon pail that's the active ingredient here.
Excellent point.
Let me say it again: if you are shopping on Amazon for bomb parts and you reasonably believe your shipment will be delivered, you are a terrorist. At least in the minds of almost everyone else living around you.
Less excellent, smacks of thoughtcrime.
FWIW, "bomb parts" is an incredibly vague term that can be used to describe lots of non-criminal items and activities.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Finally one supplier cares about what the demand side is actually demanding and of course those damn commies have to put a stop to it!
Stop interfering with free trade, dammit!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I have a hard time believing that so many people are building bombs that the algorithm picked up on the item combinations. And you're really going to build one based on the suggestions of a website without knowing what you're doing? You know what, go for it. That will end well.
Btw I'm glad England is super duper safe with their strict gun control laws. They're working great to protect the public with all these chemical attacks, bombings, and stabbings.
This story is a bit misleading and sensationalist. The "gunpowder" they refer to isn't anything any modern gun would use. It's not nearly so strong. Instead it's the raw ingredients for the centuries-old black powder, which needs extensive processing in order to make black powder from these ingredients. Just mixing them will do nothing. (I've made black powder multiple times, using ingredients from the hardware store.)
The other item they refer to as "explosive" is metal powder, which Burns with a bright light. This has been used for camera flashes from the 1800s until recently. It's not a very good way to make a bomb, though anything that burns quickly will build up pressure if it's put into a metal container. If you wanted to build a bomb, though, you'd use high explosive, not flash powder. Your local Walmart, Walgreens, or Home Depot carries the materials for MUCH more dangerous explosive, which is easier to make than black powder.
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In the case of the New York Times article where they actually tried search terms for things you might actually use to make a bomb, they (surprise) got links to other stuff you might use to make a bomb. But it's not like suddenly people searching for 5 gallon pails were being offered C4 and detonator caps.
And you're right... I didn't really want to say that anyone buying the parts to make explosives on Amazon was a terrorist. Probably the vast majority of them are either explosives enthusiasts or use those ingredients in a professional setting. The original idea I was responding to was that "rebels" fighting a tyrannical government would be shopping on Amazon.
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The article admits that household substances were used in the recent attack. So Amazon telling people to buy household substances and a bucket is now 'assisting' terrorists.
Okay, the ball-bearings is weird but normal people like destroying stuff too. If I know a bomb requires ball-bearings and want a bomb, I'll be buying them with or without Amazon assisting me.
Let's bring-in the idea again, of a half-tonne safety cage in a 10-seater plane: Because, terrorists.
I want to believe this is real.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
It is fun when you look at items like precision scales to see all the drug-related stuff being suggested. Usually that's for cannabis, but not only.
Looks like you are making redneck soup, you've purchased the pressure cooker now you will need some powder and add nails to taste top with a fuse and your ready for delicious redneck soup!!
The power of modern comes from nitroglycerin, the same explosive used in Dynamite. It's a "high explosive", meaning it detonates, explodes all by itself.
Black powder, on the other hand, merely burns quickly. Black powder is very finely powdered charcoal very thoroughly mixed with oxygen-rich saltpetre. The oxygen in the saltpetre helps the charcoal burn faster. Charcoal is hard to light, so a little sulfur is added to make it easier to light. (The hard part is grinding them into a fine enough powder and mixing them so thoroughly that practically every molecule of charcoal is touching a molecule of saltpetre, and doing this grinding and mixing without setting it off.)
A pile of black powder won't explode. When black powder gets interesting is when it's burned inside a closed container. The resulting fumes increase pressure in the container, until the container bursts open (or the pressure sends a musket ball down the barrel).
So you're basically right, you just got the two switched.
Something that explodes by itself (detonates) is called a high explosive. Modern powder contains high explosive. Something that just burns fast, possibly causing it's container to burst, is called a low explosive.
I've made a lot of black powder. It's fun. I made a few MILLIGRAMS of high explosive once. I won't do that again. High explosives are not to be played with.
And how about the algorithm for finding the idiots that buy bomb making supplies. Seems like the tool is there to catch them but everyone is focused on the wrong problem. I'm no genius but this just seems to easy to figure out.