Slashdot Mirror


The Shorter Your Sleep, the Shorter Your Life: the New Sleep Science (independent.co.uk)

An anonymous reader shares a report: A "catastrophic sleep-loss epidemic" is causing a host of potentially fatal diseases, a leading expert has said. In an interview with the Guardian, Professor Matthew Walker, director of the Centre for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley, said that sleep deprivation affected "every aspect of our biology" and was widespread in modern society. And yet the problem was not being taken seriously by politicians and employers, with a desire to get a decent night's sleep often stigmatised as a sign of laziness, he said. Electric lights, television and computer screens, longer commutes, the blurring of the line between work and personal time, and a host of other aspects of modern life have contributed to sleep deprivation, which is defined as less than seven hours a night. But this has been linked to cancer, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, Alzheimer's disease, obesity and poor mental health among other health problems. In short, a lack of sleep is killing us.

27 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Next up by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 5, Funny

    Eight hours or more work days are killing us. Learn more on the news at 23:00.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Next up by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Federal compensatory time legislation and corresponding rules about accounting for outside-hours work are on my list of major issues. Salaried workers in this country work on average 47 hours, and get paid for only 40; it is time to deal with that.

      I am also considering a 32-hour work week, although this one requires more careful planning and execution, if we are to execute it at all. It should be much easier after deploying Universal Social Security.

    2. Re:Next up by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      You know, every job I worked salary was like that but had the understanding that if you needed a sick day or leave early, it was understood and allowed with no issues.

      It's not like that where I work now. We have to use our PTO for a doctor's appointment even if we physically work on site 50 hours. It actually pisses me off.

      I fought and won with HR about not using 2 hours of PTO if I left 2 hours early but had worked 8 hours (with the stipulation on their part that there was a business need for me to be on site - fair enough) but lost when when it came to working some of those hours during the week.

      It's frustrating that my hourly employees can use an hour of unpaid FMLA and have the ability to work a extra hours during the week so they can still get paid for 40 hours but I can work 40-50 hours but with no way of clocking that time while be expected to mark myself absent and unpaid for for the time I missed under the same FMLA.

      I expected to get paid 40 hours for 40+ hours work. That I factored in when I negotiated my salary. I didn't expect to get paid 32 hours when I worked 40+ (unless I am willing to alos lose my PTO time.)

    3. Re:Next up by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      You should bolster your website with some info about your economic education, experience, and credibility. The ideas you list here are so easily worked around and you don't even address the obvious unintended consequences, so most people who have a background in economics are not going to take you seriously.

      Start with how you're solving the Economic Calculation Problem in your economic model (and publish the model too).

      It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. -Rothbard

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  2. Re:It's simple math. by alex67500 · · Score: 2

    Actually, that is an interesting point, but should be presented from the other side.

    You're assigned a certain amount of awake time at birth, but sleep deprivation means you reduce that waking time bit by bit.

  3. Re:It's simple math. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

    You are assigned a certain amount of sleep at birth. If you don't use it all up, it's added to the start of your dirt nap.

    I thought TFA might work out to that, but it turns out it doesn't - greatly increased risks of many diseases that'll take you out way sooner.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  4. Re:It's simple math. by olsmeister · · Score: 2

    And if you try to use all your awake time consecutively, this is what happens.

  5. SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    By sleeping 10% more, you can extend your life by 4%.
    If you consider: SLEEPING = LIVING
    If not, then you have lost 6% of your life to sleep.

    1. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't enjoy my life when I'm tired, so I'll take sleeping.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by budgenator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't confuse living with enduring.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    3. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good at math, bad at critical thinking. Sure, you might sleep more than your life is lengthened, but experiencing better health, less disease (and related cost), and overall better quality of life (and productivity) by being rested is a pretty good tradeoff.

  6. "politicians and employers"? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And yet the problem was not being taken seriously by politicians and employers

    Why should politicians and employers be involved? Because you're a bunch of kids who need daddy to tell you what to do?

    Electric lights, television and computer screens, longer commutes, the blurring of the line between work and personal time, and a host of other aspects of modern life have contributed to sleep deprivation

    Yeah, anything but personal choice to do more stuff and sleep less, then make it up by taking stimulants.

    My wife and I go to bed at a reasonable time each night (10PM) and get up at 6AM, no need for an alarm clock. Yes, it takes discipline.

    1. Re:"politicians and employers"? by computational+super · · Score: 2

      Why should employers be involved?

      Yeah, why should employers care? If you die, there's a line of them waiting to replace you. Plus they don't have to pay out severance. The less you sleep, the better it works out for them.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    2. Re:"politicians and employers"? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      I've been a contractor, and it was better; we can't, however, force every business to just hire contractors. My experience contracting is a large part of my expertise in solving these sorts of problems; the other part is my knowledge of project management and, by extension, my understanding of both the use of subject matter experts (my own knowledge is always limited) and the importance of involving and considering the needs of all stakeholders (employees, lawmakers, state economies, employers, etc.).

      Businesses are going to go corp-to-corp contracting because it's more-efficient, and corporate contractors are also more-efficient at handling employees than a bunch of independent contractors are at handling themselves. Self-employment involves a lot of duplicate work compared to a bunch of employees working for an employer; in the end, the consumer has to pay for that work all the way up the chain. Wages and payrolls come out of revenues, after all.

  7. Bad math Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by ET3D · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Extending life by 4% is equivalent to 1 hour a day. Sleeping 10% more, assuming you sleep 6 hours, is 6.6 hours, so you gain 0.4 hour. If you extend an 8 hour sleep by 10%, it's 8.8 hours, so you gain 0.2 hour. So either case is a win. I'm guessing you posted the above without getting enough sleep. :)

  8. Politicians and Employers... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have no love for either politicians or bosses, but is this really their problem? I suppose if you have a job where you have to work for 16 hours a day, your employer is definitely taking away your sleep time. I don't think that describes too many people.

    I think most of our sleep is being lost from OUR choices. We stay up late binging on netflix, or playing games, or otherwise entertaining ourselves. We pack our day with work, kids stuff, entertainment, commute, etc. We kind of bring on a very busy, very hectic schedule and sleep is just sort of sandwiched in there.

    One can argue that a 40 hour work-week is no longer really that important, but I have no reason to believe that even if we went to a 20 hour workweek we would sleep even 5 minutes more. We'd just find more stuff to pack in there. In contrast I probably could say "I'm too sleepy, I'm going to show up for work in a few hours" and my boss wouldn't give a crap as long as I got my work done. It'd come off as all kinds of horrible, but I have some karma to burn. The problem is that it wouldn't fix anything. I'd sleep in, go to work, do my job, then come home and do the same bad thing that cost me sleep previously, only later, to later hours...

    The article mentions I think only one point where work schedules are directly responsible: night shift workers with disrupted circadian rhythms. There is evidence that we are more ready to sleep at certain times of the day. That might push some groups to later hours than others. But that's not likely to solve the real problem.

  9. Politicians? by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    "And yet the problem was not being taken seriously by politicians and employers"

    In America, perhaps you need to consider an employer's interest in this issue as finding the tradeoff between maximum profit and maximum employee productivity.

    Why are politicians involved? Some right being violated? Our politicians are mostly in the business of violating our rights already. No more work to be done there.

    Really, looking to government to solve the problem is usually THE PROBLEM.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  10. Re:Actually it is not that big a boon by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    A pair of brilliant scientists, the Tappet Brothers, Click and Clack, made a great observation with respect to exercises.

    The Tappet Brothers Law of Exercises:

    Exercise extends life exactly by the duration spent exercising.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  11. Re:It's simple math. by ranton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You are assigned a certain amount of sleep at birth. If you don't use it all up, it's added to the start of your dirt nap.

    I thought TFA might work out to that, but it turns out it doesn't - greatly increased risks of many diseases that'll take you out way sooner.

    But it would still be simple for the study to say "adults sleeping 6 hours per night lose a median of X years off their life." They don't say anything like that, so it is impossible to know if you are likely to lose more waking hours in your life than you gain by 40 waking days worth of time you gain each year by sleeping two hours less. If you sleep 6 hours instead of 8 each day for 40 years, you have gained just over 4 years of time. So the question is whether the health problems they studied are likely to reduce your life by more than 4 years on average.

    The study also keeps throwing in statements such as "predicted to live only to their early 60s without medical intervention." But they don't state what medical intervention means here. Many of the problems mentioned in the study are caused by rising blood pressure. Does this mean that with blood pressure medication these adverse effects of sleep deprevation go away? And if they don't go away, are the effects diminished?

    Considering there are real benefits of sleeping a little less (more hours in each day), you need to be very specific when describing the downsides. Worthless statements such as "twice as likely to have a heart attack" are meaningless without knowing whether medication affects that increase, what are the chances of surviving that heart attack, etc.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  12. Re:Bad habits by beelsebob · · Score: 2

    Actually, it's been pretty rigorously demonstrated at this point that teenagers bodies really genuinely do need sleep later in the day than adult ones. They really are biologically late sleepers, and late risers.

  13. Please don't try to sleep "8 hours"... by jpellino · · Score: 2

    7.5 or 9 - you'll wake at the time your body is ready to. I have long suspected that 8.25 was the arithmetic mean of reported sleep spans and since the public hates decimal points, it was short-handed to 8, which is exactly when you should not be waking.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
    1. Re:Please don't try to sleep "8 hours"... by ledow · · Score: 2

      Better:

      Go to bed when you're tired, earlier if you have a big day ahead. It's not hard.

      Read up on "second sleep", previous generations knew about and thought it quite normal to wake up in the night, go and do some things, then go back to bed. Read storybooks and you'll see veiled references to it everywhere, people don't just go to bed and then wake up in the morning. Never heard of "midnight snacks"? Same phenomenon.

      Same for food. Hungry? Eat. Three square meals a day is a Victorian invention. It's a biological nonsense. And yet people have trained themselves to it.

      Listen to your body, not some random number thrown at you (how many pieces of fruit/veg a day? EVERY COUNTRY CHOOSES A DIFFERENT NUMBER. From 2 up to 8 in some cases.)

  14. Sleep by ledow · · Score: 2

    "Electric lights, television and computer screens, longer commutes, the blurring of the line between work and personal time, and a host of other aspects of modern life have contributed to sleep deprivation"

    All of which, with the possible slight exception of commutes which may be out of their control, are about GROWN ADULTS who aren't able to take themselves to bed on time.

    Literally, people, I'm the most gadgety person in the whole of gadgetdom. And I switch them off, turn out the light, and go to sleep no problem at all, after using them for between 8-16 hours a day, every day, for my entire adult life.

    If you're not going to bed because you're up doing stuff, stop it and go to bed.

  15. Re:Bad habits by epine · · Score: 2

    Over the course of a few decades, the apparent age difference of the earlybirds vs the night owls has really started to stand out. With the 'sundowners' (to borrow a term from dementia studies) aging about 10 to 20 years more in appearance than the early risers.

    The only way you could possibly get this impression is if your "sundowners" group was highly correlated with smokers, alcoholics and unwise drug use (of the kind further correlated with pre-existing neurological imbalance).

    I had N24 for thirty years (recently conquered), and the only reason I presently look my age is the copious amount of albino hair infiltrating an even more copious mop of same-old hair. (Being awake all night for five out of every fifteen days certainly helped to keep me out of the sun.)

    The systematically grizzled-before-their-time "sundowner" groups I have known either gathered together in dialysis clinics (member of extended family, who was the only athlete among them), hung out in smoky rooms all day, or retired at age fifty from owning a hectic restaurant to a semi-affluent lifestyle of sailboats, golf, and steadily escalating post yard-arm inebriation.

    Stop all this bullshit about 'Muh biologies' as an excuse to stay up later.

    If I were you, I'd return both your bullshit detector and your dialect coach from whence they came and demand a full refund (if a $5 Starbucks gift card is the best you can wrangle, I'd still colour your situation improved—should you manage to spend it wisely).

    The funny sensation you're now feeling? That's 'muh biologies' putting it's boot up your ass.
    _____

    On another note, the group of people who sleep less than they ought to also includes a disproportionate fraction of those who abuse fructose (somebody out there is drinking two Starbucks Mocha Frappuccinos per day).

    Caffe Vanilla Frappuccino Blended Beverage
    Serving size: 16 fl oz
    Sugar: 69 g (4.91 tbsp)

    How Worried Should We Be About Sugar? — 2016

    RAZ: So what is the — what is a daily recommended limit for, like, an adult human for maximum amount of sugar we should be having every day?

    LUSTIG: Well, depends on who you ask. The World Health Organization originally said six teaspoons of added sugar per day.

    RAZ: Sounds reasonable.

    LUSTIG: Well, it is actually reasonable. It's 25 grams. It's not, you know, an enormous amount, but it should be enough. But — but they were lobbied so severely by the industry. So they actually ended up liberalizing it from 6 to 12 teaspoons of added sugar per day.

    Sleep deprivation leads to a) caffeine-seeking behaviour, and b) sugary-snack–seeking behaviour, and c) the aforementioned base-clearing (and liver clogging) home run.

  16. You've convinced me by Dan+East · · Score: 2

    Time for a nap. Because my life depends on it.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  17. Re:It's simple math. by gnick · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you sleep 6 hours instead of 8 each day for 40 years, you have gained just over 4 years of time. So the question is whether the health problems they studied are likely to reduce your life by more than 4 years on average.

    That's A question. Another would be the degree to which 8 hours vs 6 improves your quality of life during your waking hours. I'm in a better mood all day if I get 8 instead of 6. At 3 or 4, I spend the day miserable and would gladly trade a couple of waking hours for sleeping ones.

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  18. alarm clocks are for losers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    this is why i just sleep until i don't feel like sleeping anymore. only a loser gets up to an alarm.