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Hawaii Approves Telescope On Volcano Sacred To Indigenous People (reuters.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the new-and-improved dept.

A new $1.4 billion telescope will be built atop a Hawaiian volcano indigenous people consider sacred. The team of scientists fighting for the telescope won approval from Hawaiian officials on Thursday after selecting the site and applying to build there in 2009. Reuters reports: The Hawaii Board of Land and Natural Resources voted 5-2 to allow construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) on the summit of Mauna Kea on Hawaii's Big Island, state officials said in a statement. Astronomers consider the summit one of the world's best places to view the cosmos, while Native Hawaiians say the project would disturb holy ground crucial to their connection with ancestors and the heavens. A consortium of scientists initially received construction permits from state officials in 2011. In 2015, the Hawaii Supreme Court voided that decision, saying officials did not follow the proper procedures for a "contested case hearing." That forced the state board to re-evaluate the proposal with more input from opponents. The project calls for building one of the world's largest telescopes atop the dormant volcano.

11 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. Common sense wins.. by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But at large cost as is often the case.

    We will see the usual troublemakers rush back in to try and stir up more protests now.
    The same ones who have been missing throughout this actual process, because creating public strife and being the center of attention is what the seek, rather than any actual improvement to peoples lives.

  2. Its the rightwingers who snowflake on religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    So why did you ask what leftwingers will do? Projecting again?

    1. Re:Its the rightwingers who snowflake on religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hawaiian natives don't give a shit either. This "You can't build here because it's sacred" is just their long-standing way of demanding a bribe. You would think a "consortium of scientists" would be smart enough to figure out this is how things work in Hawaii.

    2. Re:Its the rightwingers who snowflake on religion by MrKaos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which religion would that be? Let me guess: The only true one! How did you figure that out? Did you compare all the world's religions when you were a kid or did you just pick the one of the people who raised you or that you happened to interact with.

      Of course it is the one you are exposed to as a child, that what culture IS, packaged messily as religion so you have a framework to build a personal morality from by taking responsibility for you're own shitty behavior. Here, read this book to discover how ugly and cruel humanity can be and figure out how to not to do that.

      I've never got why people compare science and religion when they are two different fields of knowledge, one deals with the nature of the universe, the other the nature of humanity.

      All religions are bullshit and no rational person should put up with any of them!

      Is this from your study of religion? Isn't it also possible you simply lack the imagination and intellect to read the texts that created your culture? That brought forth the morality that crafted the laws that allow you to roam the streets at night in relative safety? That despite it's thousands of years of messy hypocrisy manifested enough civil behavior to lay the foundations for science so you could sit on your computer and criticize it as irrational, which it is, but what does that say about us?

      Is it rational to trash someone else's culture because you can?

      Rational, as if our society is rational. No, it is not rational because people are not rational and that's why a planet full of crazy primates evolved religion in several flavors so we have a framework for how to behave like a person that other people want to be around and not kill. Anyone who take religions as literal truth is not rational however anyone who cannot take the lessons from religion as archetypical truths about subjective behavior of human beings has little chance of mastering their own culture because they don't know the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

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      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    3. Re:Its the rightwingers who snowflake on religion by mschuyler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed, but the issue is which religions are PC to criticize, and which are protected from any and all criticism. Right now it's open season on Christianity, but every other religion gets a pass. If it were Christianity objecting to this telescope on "sacred ground" people would be waiting in line for hours to throw their two cents of derision Christianity's way. But if this is "sacred ground" to "indigenous people" (they are not) suddenly we have to respect and revere these ancient traditions and protest against this scientific endeavor. If we were consistent we'd call BS on all religious mumbo jumbo instead of reserving whipping boy status only for Christianity.

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      How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
  3. Lemme guess by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They sent some shaman (or whatever the druggy is called in their religion) to converse with the ancients and they said a gift of a few million bucks could appease them...

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    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Re:Science vs MONEY by VirginMary · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Their so-called 'native religion' is nothing but a pathetic hoax

    I wholeheartedly agree! A hoax like all religions!

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    When 1person suffers from a delusion,it is called insanity.When many people suffer from a delusion,it is called religion
  5. but the roads are great! by supernova87a · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I always find it interesting that when the (few) native Hawaiians and their opportunistic supporters go up the mountain, they always seem to do it using the roads that the telescope facilities built and manage/maintain. I guess that part of the desecration is just a nice time saver.

    1. Re:but the roads are great! by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is an asinine argument.

      Suppose I built a house on a plot of land you owned and you decided to knock it down, which would be within your rights. You'd think I was an idiot if I said, "Well, OK, but don't park your bulldozers in *my* driveway."

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      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  6. Re:Science vs Religion by coastwalker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Leftists have a problem with trash like you using religion to get at minorities. Christians are not being told to bugger off 'back to sand ni**er land'. Most left wingers think that all religions are superstition given unwarranted power. Quite apart from which we had the holy wars in the pig ignorant middle ages and the last thing the world needs now is more war.

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    Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
  7. Re: Natives "inconveniently" own some land by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Native Americans spent thousands of years killing each other and taking land from each other before Whitey ever showed up.
    Ya, they got to eat a shit sandwich, just like the losers always have everywhere on Earth for all of History. And now we have a country which has enough power and influence to try and change that globally, and all you assmonkeys can do is whine about World Police.