High Sierra's Disk Utility Does Not Recognize Unformatted Disks (tinyapps.org)

I am not surprised by oldgraybeard · 2017-10-02 06:53 · Score: 5, Funny

Apple assumes everyone gets everything from Apple. And Apple would never sell a device that was not prepared at the factory.

Re:I am not surprised by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:16 · Score: 0

Not surprised either, there for a few major versions (three, I think) they seemed to fark up SMB and active directory binding with each release. Also there seems to be a show stopping bug of one type or another until patch 10.X.4 of each release. What do they do, forget to port their fixes between each major revision?
Re:I am not surprised by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:27 · Score: 0

Apple used to be good at supporting developers, now they've kind of gone to shit.
Re:I am not surprised by Anubis+IV · 2017-10-02 07:35 · Score: 2

Apple assumes everyone gets everything from Apple.
Has this ever been true? Sure, it's a funny line to toss out there, but Apple has obviously recognized that their products exist in a world beyond their control, which is why we see support for SMB, NTFS, and a host of other technologies and formats that didn't originate at Apple.
To be sure, their support falls far short of what we see on Windows or Linux, but in the various Macs I've worked on, I've replaced RAM, batteries, SSDs, HDDs, and even created my own Fusion Drive, none of which I did using Apple-branded components. Clearly they designed their products to work with products they didn't create. That something otherwise is being reported here today is an upsetting departure from the status quo for Macs.
Re: I am not surprised by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 21:50 · Score: 0

Apple was never good at supporting developers. Their documentation and tools suck and they view developers as a distraction.

WHY WOULD IT? Unformatted = undocumented by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 06:53 · Score: -1

Let's have some arbitrary protocol standards, shall we? We don't need bad hombre sectors.

So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 06:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

How do you expect to format a drive to make it appear when you can't make it appear to format the drive?

Do people think about this kind of thing anymore?

Re:So Apple.... by sinij · 2017-10-02 07:04 · Score: 1

How do you expect to format a drive to make it appear when you can't make it appear to format the drive?
Try man mkfs. They are likely just piping error messages of some low level utility. For example, parted would return "error: /foo/bar: unrecognized disk".
Re:So Apple.... by drinkypoo · 2017-10-02 07:08 · Score: 2

Try man mkfs. They are likely just piping error messages of some low level utility. For example, parted would return "error: /foo/bar: unrecognized disk".
Some OS component recognized the disk and announced that it was uninitialized, then offered to send them to initialize it. It's not acceptable for the subsequent tool not to recognize that there's a disk there, even if all it knows about it is that it can't do anything with it.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:So Apple.... by tk77 · 2017-10-02 07:25 · Score: 1

Well its more like man diskutil, as you can still see unformatted disks there and use diskutil eraseDisk ... to format it.
A bigger issue is that when you plug an unformatted disk in, it pops up the usual message that its unreadable and to initialize it. Clicking initialize opens disk util which then does not show the unformatted drive (which it did in all previous versions). So for the average user, this could be confusing.
This looks like it could just be a bug in Disk Utility. Hopefully.
Re:So Apple.... by Yaztromo · 2017-10-02 07:40 · Score: 0

How do you expect to format a drive to make it appear when you can't make it appear to format the drive?
Okay -- it's a pretty dumb bug. One that is hopefully fixed quickly.
From a practical point however, how many people are actually ever going to run into this? The drive hardware built into Macs is pre-formatted, so it won't trigger this bug. Likewise, virtually every other external drive you can buy these days is pre-formatted, so again -- you're not going to be able to trigger this bug unless you erase the drive without re-initializing it at the same time.
Yaz
Re:So Apple.... by Yaztromo · 2017-10-02 07:45 · Score: 0

A bigger issue is that when you plug an unformatted disk in, it pops up the usual message that its unreadable and to initialize it. Clicking initialize opens disk util which then does not show the unformatted drive (which it did in all previous versions). So for the average user, this could be confusing.
Yeah, but what "average user" is buying an unformatted drive? Virtually everything is pre-formatted out of the factory these days so users don't have to format in order to start using their new drives.
A dumb bug to be sure -- but the impact should only be to those who have blanked out a drive on their own without re-formatting/re-initializing it at the same time.
Yaz
Re:So Apple.... by tk77 · 2017-10-02 07:50 · Score: 1

Yeah, but what "average user" is buying an unformatted drive? Virtually everything is pre-formatted out of the factory these days so users don't have to format in order to start using their new drives.
A dumb bug to be sure -- but the impact should only be to those who have blanked out a drive on their own without re-formatting/re-initializing it at the same time.
Yaz
True. Also, in using the previous release to help test this (10.12) I couldn't find a way (via Disk Utility) to blank a disk. There used to be an option in Disk Utility that would let you initialize as "empty space". That seems to have gone away (shows how often I use it). I had to drop to the command line to clear the disk (w/ the help of dd). Something that the average user will also not be doing.
Still would be nice to have these features in the gui. But I can live with it, as long as they don't remove them from the cli tools.
Re:So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:00 · Score: 0

You did RTFA right? Disk Utilities didn't see the disk but the diskutil command-line program did find the device. They could then initialize the disk and have it appear under Disk Utilities.
Re:So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:13 · Score: 0

I ran into it yesterday. I had to run a separate utility (Partition Wizard? Partition Magic? One of the bootable CD disk partitioning utilities) on my PC with the target drive connected over a SATA-USB adapter cable. That way I could create the GUID partition table and create a partition the Mac could then format. It had me perplexed for probably 20 minutes.
Re:So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 09:20 · Score: 0

At a minimum, the UI should be as expansive and offer all the same options as the CLI. The benefit of the CLI is that I am able to automate most of the mundane presets into scripts. Anytime I'm faced with a CLI-only option tells me that the UI is incomplete and needs to go back to the developers. Anything less and it fails the Apple Fit and Polish promise. Nuff said.
Re:So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 09:39 · Score: 0

Not all drives are formatted. SSDs are still sold unformatted.
Re: So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 12:24 · Score: 0

This isn't intended behavior. It's a fucking bug. Of course it's not going to work like it's supposed to. That's why you gotta use the CLI to get around the bug. Once the bug is fixed, you won't need the CLI anymore.
Re:So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 14:53 · Score: 0

Get Steve Job's petrified dead cock out of your mouth.
Re:So Apple.... by TheRaven64 · 2017-10-02 20:27 · Score: 1

Disk Utility is mostly a very thin wrapper around diskutil, so there's a good chance that this is a bug in the underlying frameworks, not the GUI.

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:So Apple.... by Bongo · 2017-10-02 20:31 · Score: 1

I thought Disk Utility.app called on diskutil anyway to do the format. But they both (?) rely on Disk Arbitration framework to know what's going on. So just something someone forgot to update when the framework was changed...?
Re:So Apple.... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 22:59 · Score: 0

If it's already dead I don't know what it's got to be afraid of...
Re:So Apple.... by AmiMoJo · 2017-10-03 00:16 · Score: 1

This could be the new "keyboard error, press any key to continue."

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:So Apple.... by tk77 · 2017-10-03 05:27 · Score: 1

But yet diskutil displays all drives and allows you to initialize an unformatted disk, whereas Disk Utility does neither. Assuming they both use the same underlying framework then why would one display unformatted disks when the other does not? It would seem like there's something in the GUI that selectively displays the drives. This is already evident by the option to "show hidden" partitions (ie the rescue partition).
So it looks like either Disk Utility is purposely ignoring unformatted disks (boo), or there's a bug where its not displaying them.
Re:So Apple.... by cthulhu11 · 2017-10-03 07:32 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure the spinners I've put into my Mac Pro came that way too.

It Just Works by sexconker · 2017-10-02 06:58 · Score: 4, Funny

You're holding it wrong?

Re:It Just Works by phantomfive · 2017-10-02 07:44 · Score: 1

That might be true. A few years back, Apple changed the way monitor calibration works, reduced it so all you can do is change the "target white point." The rest somehow happens automatically or something, I don't know.

Unless you press "option-shift" when you open the calibration tool. Then you get the full calibration tool. "Option-shift." Good luck figuring that one out. Hooray for intuitive UI!

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Re:It Just Works by epyT-R · 2017-10-02 10:19 · Score: 1

Try adding a windows network shared printer to osx.. First, you have to hold down control and click on the add-printer dialog in order to add an 'advanced' button...
seriously?
Then there's the removal of the 'hidden' SSID support. While it does nothing for security, it does keep phone calls from techno illiterates down as they won't try connecting to networks they don't see in the dialog. This allows the creation of 'infrastructure' networks not meant for BYOD.
Re:It Just Works by sexconker · 2017-10-02 10:23 · Score: 1

That might be true. A few years back, Apple changed the way monitor calibration works, reduced it so all you can do is change the "target white point." The rest somehow happens automatically or something, I don't know.
Unless you press "option-shift" when you open the calibration tool. Then you get the full calibration tool. "Option-shift." Good luck figuring that one out. Hooray for intuitive UI!
Not as bad as LAN mode in Splatoon 2...
http://en-americas-support.nin...
Re:It Just Works by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 10:47 · Score: 0

It's only "option" that's needed. Using "option" when clicking on something to get a more advanced usage is standard on most items in Mac OS. For example, choose any top-level menu and hold down the "option" key. You'll see that the items change to some alternative use. The only quibble I have with the monitor calibration is that the button should change from "Calibrate..." to "Expert Calibrate..." or similar so that it's more apparent.
Re:It Just Works by epyT-R · 2017-10-02 10:57 · Score: 1

All this 'hiding' is fucking stupid. It isn't just apple, either. MS is doing it, too, with their new UI garbage. If I wanted to play hunt the wumpus, I'd load it in an emu. I don't want to play it with my UI environment.
What is so terrible about having ONE panel per component (eg networking, display etc) with some tabs? Hint: if search boxes are needed on the UI to compensate for the layout, then the layout sucks.
Re:It Just Works by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 18:14 · Score: 0

Not as bas as CUPS. Seel
* http://www.catb.org/esr/writin...
The essay was writen in 2006, and the basic CUPS configuration has not fixed a *single one* of the problems Eric Raymond described.

Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:00 · Score: -1

Mac OS X used to celebrate the nitty-gritty, technical, BSD-Unix, close-to-the-C-programming-language underpinnings of computing, but now it's all about form over function; it's just a runway show now, and thus the engineers have left for more interesting projects.

Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:21 · Score: 0

Apple used to make their own operating systems before Mac OS X. Mac OS 9 and earlier were truly innovative, not Unix clones, and written in Pascal instead of C.
The decline of Apple happened long ago when they stopped innovating and started selling polished ripoffs of prior work done at Berkeley and NeXT.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by MightyYar · 2017-10-02 07:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

What? Maybe System 7 was innovative. 9 was a desperate attempt to keep the ol' geezer marketable after their replacement OS effort Copeland was aborted. It was very uncertain whether or not Apple would even survive. OSX, even in it's initial craptastic state, was welcome relief.

--
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:33 · Score: 0

It is not a ripoff when OS X is a continuation of the NeXT operating system. In fact you could say that Apple was bought by NeXT for really cheap.
Think about it; Steve Jobs was the CEO of NeXT, then NeXT bought the Apple branding, then NeXT sold their operating system as Mac OS X together with new hardware designed after they bought the Apple brand.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:41 · Score: 0

Yes yes I'm old enough to remember when Apple announced plans to skip version 9 and go straight from Mac OS 8 to Mac OS X. Then they released a 9 anyway.
You know what? Forget the number 9. The point is Mac OS was not Unix based. It was unique technology developed from scratch by Apple. Apple doesn't do that sort of thing anymore. Apple does not make their own OS.
The massive brain drain is not recent. It began when Apple stopped making their own OS.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:46 · Score: 0

It is not a ripoff

Tell me exactly when Apple acquired the University of California at Berkeley. Tell me exactly when Apple acquired AT&T Bell Labs.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by drinkypoo · 2017-10-02 09:08 · Score: 1

Maybe System 7 was innovative. 9 was a desperate attempt to keep the ol' geezer marketable after their replacement OS effort Copeland was aborted.
System 7 was just an attempt to catch up to the rest of the computing world, which would let you put multiple applications side by side on a single display. There's nothing innovative about playing catchup. Besides, the only meaningful new features they implemented even for MacOS in 7 were scalable fonts and virtual memory, and those had been around in other operating systems for some time. There were lots of other minor changes from System 6 (like moving away from font suitcases) but those were the only big ones. The only other really cool MacOS feature wasn't even an OS feature, though it was made possible by MacOS 7's virtual memory support: Ram Doubler, aka compressed swap. This has only recently become a Linux kernel feature. It was very, very cool back then.
NeXTStep was fairly innovative, in its day; use Unix underpinnings to provide a Macintosh-level ease of use experience, and object embedding to provide desktop functionality which had never been seen before. And then Apple made it slow and ruined its device independence because they didn't want to license Postscript for display PS and the rest is... well, the present.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by R3d+M3rcury · 2017-10-02 09:35 · Score: 2

I'm old enough to remember when Apple announced plans to skip version 9 and go straight from Mac OS 8 to Mac OS X. Then they released a 9 anyway.
Then your memory is failing.
Apple announced Mac OS X and Mac OS 9 at the same time (I believe at WWDC '98). Mac OS 9 was available as stand-alone on Macs sold in that time frame as well as having code to handle running under Mac OS X.
Needless to say, Mac OS X got most of the press. But I don't believe there was ever not going to be a Mac OS 9.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 11:41 · Score: 0

Ridiculous. Mac OS X Server was released before Mac OS 9, and its classic environment ran Mac OS 8 because Mac OS 9 didn't exist. There wasn't going to be any Mac OS 9 except Apple needed to release something in the two years it took to finish the consumer grade Mac OS X 10.0.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by HiThere · 2017-10-02 17:03 · Score: 1

I used both System 9 and OSX 10.1. OSX was dramatically better. I did keep the System 9 emulation package around because some things, like the tiff encoder, kept needing it. But honestly, I tried to avoid it as much as possible.
That said, there may have been some ways in which System 9 was better than OSX, I'm just not familiar with any of them.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Bongo · 2017-10-02 20:40 · Score: 1

I seem to recall lots and lots of complaining about the loss of the spacial Finder. And Quark people all obsessed with their workflows.
Funny at the time I'd been trying Linux on a Quadra 8500, and then installed Mac OS X 10.0 and never looked back.
And it was also the time when Mac people were always complaining that Macs are so superior to PCs (I used Macs myself) but when I finally realised what a modern OS was like, I felt something of a mug -- Apple had seriously inflicted collective brain damage on its users in continuing with OS 9 for so long, whilst it fretted over whether this or that routine was reentrant or not.
At least now I can say I prefer Unix to Windows.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by ctilsie242 · 2017-10-03 01:41 · Score: 1

OS X was one of the best things that ever happened to Apple. System 7 to OS 9 were preemptive multitasking, where if one program didn't call a WaitNextEvent(), the entire OS would freeze, necessitating a hard reset. In fact, one had to reboot their Mac every 2-3 hours because their OS was so unstable. These were Apple's dark ages, because all but really dedicated people left the Mac platform either because they could get more work done on Windows, or the fact that they could do some cool tinkering on Linux. If it were not for NeXTStep, Apple likely would not have survived, or if so, it would have been in some diminished capacity (like being bought out by Sun.)
Apple can innovate, but historically, they tend to go into markets after the original pioneers have dealt with the slings and arrows. Had Apple stepped into the MP3 market any sooner, they would have to battle the RIAA on RIAA's turf, and the iPod would be a completely different offering, if it didn't get stomped out of existance. Diamond's Pyrrhic victory was a stepping stone for Apple to get into that market.
It would be nice for Apple to get back into "bread and butter" computing. Apple used to be a one stop shop, where if one had an problem, they could call Apple to deal with everything from the printer, monitor, OS, hardware, and even the application. No finger pointing to vendors who point the finger right back. I know there would be a market if Apple would start selling "everyday" devices again. Things like a Time Capsule with two drives for RAID, a decent laser printer/scanner/copier, or a hardened server designed where IoT devices communicated with it, and it would allow/deny communication, as a way to keep remote attackers at bay, especially if it could use Z-wave.
Apple could even make money by making their own removable media format for backups (perhaps licensing Sony's optical formats or high density tape formats) , and it would sell well.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Yaztromo · 2017-10-03 05:57 · Score: 1

OS X was one of the best things that ever happened to Apple. System 7 to OS 9 were preemptive multitasking, where if one program didn't call a WaitNextEvent(), the entire OS would freeze, necessitating a hard reset.
That's not preemptive multitasking -- that's cooperative multitasking. OS X is preemptive.
Yaz
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by ctilsie242 · 2017-10-03 06:34 · Score: 1

I stand corrected. Meant cooperative multitasking... a quality of UNIX since bygone times. Thank you.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by ctilsie242 · 2017-10-03 06:37 · Score: 1

Typo city. tl;dr Preemptive multitasking is what made OS X a major step for Apple, and a major improvement. Applications made from System 1-7 and macOS 8-9 had to be extremely well coded, or else they would take down the entire machine.
Re:Apple has suffered a massive brain drain. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-06 11:49 · Score: 0

Funny at the time I'd been trying Linux on a Quadra 8500, and then installed Mac OS X 10.0 and never looked back.
Guessing you mean a Power Mac 8500? There was a Quadra 850 but no 8500.

Re:WHY WOULD IT? Unformatted = undocumented by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:01 · Score: -1

I know, I know, the REAL story is that Mariah fucking Carey has her Christmas tree up already, some kind of savant drugged billionaire retard former whore type shit. I don't get it entirely either.

Uhhh... by Billy+the+Mountain · 2017-10-02 07:05 · Score: 4, Funny

Did you try turning it off and turning it back on again?

--
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.

Re:Uhhh... by infolation · 2017-10-02 10:17 · Score: 2

Yes. I did. So... prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them along with this slice of humble pie, that comes direct from the oven of shame, set at gas mark 'egg on your face'.

Re:WHY WOULD IT? Unformatted = undocumented by IHateFatCashews · 2017-10-02 07:07 · Score: 0

She's late! Christmas starts in July!

What a Bunch of Wimps by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:09 · Score: 1

My CP/M system wouldn't read unformatted 8" floppys back in 1982.
It took a day to get the right data sheets and write my own formatter in assembler.
Damn kids today can't do anything.

Re:What a Bunch of Wimps by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:26 · Score: -1

The Apple customer base consists of the people who can't handle more than one button in a mouse, let alone formatting a disk. Perhaps Apple will start selling them Apple certified electricity in shiny disposable battery units with magnetic connectors?

history of hysteria repeals itself by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:10 · Score: 0

some help as if we'd take it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn3bD7n3bZQ ..cease fire stand down,, there are moms & babys in all of our towns.. nothing new in centuries,, please read the teepeeleaks etchings.. thanks again moms,, no heart no spirit no life...

Re: history of hysteria repeals itself by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:15 · Score: 0

Shhhhh!
It's trying to tell us something!
What's that Lassie??? /.'s going to hell?

and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change disk by Joe_Dragon · 2017-10-02 07:12 · Score: 0, Troll

and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change the disk easily or even with some basic repair work. Having to unglue and reglue a screen is far from easy.

no the hardware went thin for looks and disk swapi by Joe_Dragon · 2017-10-02 07:17 · Score: 1

no the hardware went thin for looks and easy disk swapping was cut. Also apple can't have uses using cheaper non apple m2 pci-e ssds.

ARM mac no finder and app store only by Joe_Dragon · 2017-10-02 07:18 · Score: 0

This may be a sign that the ARM macs with have no finder and be app store only.

jcr, can you please comment on this? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:19 · Score: 0

jcr, if you're reading this discussion, can you please comment on what's being claimed by the parent?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen comments from you (like this one, and this one, and this one) which make me think you've spent a lot of time working at Apple at some point.

So what's the reality? What is actually going on? Is the parent's comment accurate?

Re:WHY WOULD IT? Unformatted = undocumented by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:22 · Score: -1

There you are again posting crap amazon affiliate spam from yet another fake account you disgusting fat sexist tube of lard, Christopher Dale Reimer!

You can be sure I will be watching this fake account too. I know this is you because you told me you were working on your freepass 11 file server and you are so dumb that you can't even masquerade yourself properly.

Now, I told you I was out of meds last week and you didn't even care to contact me you lazy fucker.

How many time do I have to express the emergency of the situation??????

The python click script you wrote for my pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work!!!!!!

You fucking incompetent python script writer!!!

When it works, I get 4000+ clicks a day on my pheromone revenue stream web site but only 5 or 6 without it!!!!

Now, it seems like you dont care and that you have abandoned me you heartless fucking pig!

Bonus:
Here is a story that creimer told me when convincing me what a hard life he had:

The tree was him and the tree knot was his butt hole!

So, his uncle packed his fat ass with lard and with his cock! Not that it makes much of a difference but anyway, there it is!

Signed:
The girl that used to love you and now hates you, burn in hell where you belong you sexist pig!

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:23 · Score: 1, Informative

Complete nonsense, imac's dont have glued in screens at all, they are held in place by a magnetic interference fit and can be removed in under a minute with a sucker clamp. The HD is then easily accessible and replaceable. It has been this way since the first Aluminium unibody imacs 10 years ago. Imac's are very easy to work on.

Once again... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:23 · Score: -1

Once again, this is because Steve left us too early (because he was an asshat that believed in alternative medicines, if reports are accurate). Regardless of idiotic medical beliefs he may or may not have held, he was very sharp in some regards; making computers and devices work reliably and in a way which was, usually, as natural as possible for humans. Both the reliability of the hardware and software have dropped considerably since he began relinquishing control of the company, as has the usability. Another 5 or 10 years with the Steve may have solidified his views as cannon in the industry, but he didn't quite last long enough, and now everything is turning to shit again.

Re:Once again... by HiThere · 2017-10-02 17:10 · Score: 1

Pancreatic cancer is almost always untreatable by the time it is detected. It's probable that his choice of alternative medicine caused an early death, but likely he chose it because he was told that the standard treatment meant preparing to die, so he went after a long chance. (Admittedly, I don't know his personal beliefs, but I also don't trust the news reports that much. They are processed for entertainment value.)
OTOH, it's quite difficult for someone even similar to him to pick a suitable replacement. I can't at the moment think of any historical example where that has happened. Certainly not at HP. IBM wasn't ever lead by someone of the same stripe, despite how Watson has been idolized in later times.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.

Re:WHY WOULD IT? Unformatted = undocumented by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:24 · Score: -1

Perfectly! We, at Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education, couldn't agree more with you!

For the valuable /. users that might already have read the following, please note that there is an important update.

IMPORTANT UPDATE:
Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education has invested money to buy Chris a new chair:
http://www.keynamics.com/image...

Information about Christopher Dale Reimer and autistic people:

Autistic people have obsessions about things normal people don't care. For example, one of our autistic patient went haywire when he realized that there was a penny missing in his pocket change.

To calm him down, one of our educator pretended to have found it on the floor and gave a penny to him.

The autistic patient condition went even worse because he realized it wasn't the same penny!

Chris has an obsession with budgeting every penny. He doesn't understand that most people do not budget to the penny and have a flexible amount they allow for miscellaneous items.

I am Nancy Guerrero and I am Director of Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education. We use Chris' (a.k.a. creimer,cdreimer) picture in our document because he is the hardest case we have ever had to handle:
http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

Our artists were inspired by the low carb diet that Christopher follows scrupulously for the small lunch box and by the picture linked below for the rest. I am sure that you will notice the similarities such as the bump on the side of his chest and more:
https://ibb.co/gVad65

Please be easy on Christopher although, I am aware that some of our staff handling Chris post joke comments here and obvoiusly, the Santa Clara County Office of Education disapprove that behavior vehemently:
https://school.discoveryeducat...

But it isn't Chris' fault if he is the way he is. We do the best we can do with him and he is partially integrated into society. We try to cure his abnormal need for attention but he is kind of stubborn and won't listen to anybody.

Thank You dear users,
-Nancy Guerrero

So courageous! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:25 · Score: 0

It takes real vision and leadership to make your OS ignore unformatted disks.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Joe_Dragon · 2017-10-02 07:28 · Score: -1

the imac pro not the imac.

Works for me by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:33 · Score: 0

I do not have that issue. I zeroed the drive before clean installing and Disk Utility had no issue.

Re:WHY WOULD IT? Unformatted = undocumented by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:34 · Score: -1

C.D. Reimer is an amazing and very renowned Slashdot collaborator, as he puts it himself; "Because of the quality of my posts and my article submissions, I'm a highly rated commentator and moderator."

But does anybody ever wondered what "C.D." stands for? Well, it stands for Creimy Dumpty of course!

Creimy Dumpty sat on the wall,
Creimy Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses
And all the king's men
Couldn't put Creimy Dumpty
Together again.

Creimy's siblings video and theme song, very realistic, especially the pants, just like Creimy's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Creimy's real pictures:
Before the sex change:
https://ibb.co/cc7Ddw
After the sex change:
https://ibb.co/gVad65

Creimy's "enterprise-level" chair, he talks about it all the time on slashdot:
http://www.keynamics.com/image...

Creimy's head, while his supervisor was talking to him, not with him, since it is impossible to do with Creimy:
https://school.discoveryeducat...

Creimy acting in educational resource document, he actually confirmed himself on Slashdot that he was handled by Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education! He is really a king Dumpty!:
http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

So what? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:36 · Score: 0

Just use some shitty old windoze or linsux box to init the drive and you are done. The nice thing about the Apple ecosystem is that they do "cloud" right, so using local drives is stupid and pointless now anyway.

Re: So what? by Brockmire · 2017-10-02 08:56 · Score: 1

Because Apple throws in a free windows or Linux PC with every MAC purchased? Fuck off.
Re:So what? by tricorn · 2017-10-02 10:03 · Score: 1

Or just use fdisk and newfs if for some reason diskutil isn't working. Or dd /dev/zero over it for a few blocks first if things are still confused.
I forget if gpt is available or if that's built in to fdisk, there are so many different versions of fdisk out there each with their own peculiarities and bugs.
Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 11:06 · Score: 0

Just use some shitty old windoze or linsux box
Great idea. No reason to read further. Far more useful than osx.
Re: So what? by Bert64 · 2017-10-02 11:35 · Score: 1

Virtualbox - free
Linux - free

--
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-03 01:22 · Score: 0

gdisk, from the same guy that makes rEFInd: http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/
It's been my first choice for GPT editing for a while now, on both macOS and Linux.

woz needs to make mac great again! by Joe_Dragon · 2017-10-02 07:36 · Score: 1

woz needs to make mac great again!

Re: woz needs to make mac great again! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 12:30 · Score: 0

Only if he can show us his birth certificate and tax returns. Otherwise, no dice.

Also not recognized for Time Machine- USB APFS by allanmccoy55 · 2017-10-02 07:38 · Score: 2

Maybe I missed the warning, but I thought, why not convert my USB connected Time Machine drive to APFS... the conversion is allowed in Disk Utility, so I started it up. After a looonnnnggggg time (more than 6 hours, but less than 21 hours) it completed. And Time Machine says "Where is my backup disk?" It's right there, same name and everything, just APFS. OK, when checking disk selected, I see my disk a second time in the list, so I choose that. TM tells me that I need to erase the disk. Well, I really don't have anything much on this machine, so sure, let's erase it and start over. Only after it is erased, TM says it can't find the disk. NICE! So that's where that stands. Maybe I am having issues due to older hardware (the MacBook Pro still has an optical drive, for ghod's sake!) or something else, but I think that Time Machine is borked when it comes to APFS drives, at least USB ones (can't check any other's- or maybe I could partition the SSD and try to use the second partition for TM? hmm, something to try.

Re:Also not recognized for Time Machine- USB APFS by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:35 · Score: 0

Don't bother with Time Machine. Use Carbon Copy Cloner.
Re:Also not recognized for Time Machine- USB APFS by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 10:06 · Score: -1

Dumbass. Any Mac user on /. should know better. It's been widely reported that TM absolutely will not work with APFS volumes. Furthermore, it's commonly known that APFS is designed and optimized for SSDs. It may be a step backwards in performance for spinning metal - one of several reasons why High Sierra does not automatically convert any non-SSD volumes.
Seriously, Apple bugs aside, what a moron!
Re: Also not recognized for Time Machine- USB APFS by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 12:32 · Score: 0

I thought Apple said not to use APFS with spinning drives. They only work on SSD currently. I could be wrong.

It just works by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:38 · Score: 0

It just works

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:43 · Score: 1

To my knowledge the iMac Pro isn't available yet, so I would like to see the source that says the screen is glued to the chassis, preventing access to the drives.

Just happened to me by sehryan · 2017-10-02 07:45 · Score: 5, Informative

I ran into this exact problem today. Clicking "Initialize..." did nothing, with the drive not showing up in Disk Utility.

Turned the enclosure off and back on, and clicked "Ignore." Disk came right up in the Utility without issues, and I was able to get it working from there.

--
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.

Frontpage worthy? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:52 · Score: 1

So a minor bug in an Apple specific disk utility software is newsworthy? I'm going to start posting news about bugs in parted now.

Re:Frontpage worthy? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:30 · Score: 0

Anything that rustles Apple fanboys' jimmies is frontpage material. So the rest of us can point and laugh.
Re:Frontpage worthy? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:49 · Score: 0

It is not newsworthy for crapple shills and ifags.
Re:Frontpage worthy? by epyT-R · 2017-10-02 11:08 · Score: 1

apple fanboys have jimmies?

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:52 · Score: 0

Imac pro has been confirmed to have the same 5k screen as the 27" imac. Which like all imac screens is a magnetic fit.

Stop telling lies Joe. We know you talk constant sheyt but just once can you give it a rest.

This is almost definitely enclosure-specific by slashmydots · 2017-10-02 07:54 · Score: 0

So assuming it's an enclosure with a 2.5 or even 3.5" drive in it, some of their controllers can't initialize a drive even in Windows because they're too simplistic and outdated. I've ran into this before and now I only get Orico USB 3.0 ones because I randomly tried them and they work. I wouldn't necessarily blame the utility but it may just be the enclosure and yes, store-bought externals can have the same problem.

Re:This is almost definitely enclosure-specific by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 11:55 · Score: 0

Are you suggested the enclosure's controller is parsing the partition table? Or is it one of those fancy external raid boxes that presents a vdisk instead of the disks directly?

you used to be cool by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 07:55 · Score: 0

The disk utility used to be really good, you could make bootable USB flash drives from ISO's but it seems to have been neutered these days.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Joe_Dragon · 2017-10-02 07:57 · Score: 1

but no ram door and how knows how the cooling is setup and how easy it will be to get to the ram / ssd (cards??)

Just drop the disk from the peak of High Sierra by eminencja · 2017-10-02 08:00 · Score: 1

The disk will then change its form (=reformat) and eventually erase old data.

Pro tip: run command `top' to quickly get to the peak of High Sierra.

Why are you complaining? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:02 · Score: 0

Just buy a new 200GB drive from Apple, it will be partitioned and formatted for you, for a mere $699.

Re:Why are you complaining? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:04 · Score: 0

Or for $1699 you can get the Ceramic White Disk Edition.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by the_B0fh · 2017-10-02 08:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

In other words, because you don't know, you just spout nonsense?

VMWare does work! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:09 · Score: 0

I tried a clean install on VMWare recently, and thought something was wrong with VMWare. It turns out that not finding the disk image was macOS's problem. This was driving me crazy.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:09 · Score: 4, Informative

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+Teardown/30260

See Step 4.

Clean Install by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:12 · Score: 0

I found this out when doing a clean install of High Sierra, so you fall back to your command line utilities and soldier on.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:46 · Score: 0

Actually, since around 2014 the Imacs don't use the magnet system anymore...
Teardown of 2014 Imac from ifixit
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2544+Teardown/11936

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 08:50 · Score: 0

Correcting myself, make that 2012!
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2544+Teardown/11936

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Paradise+Pete · 2017-10-02 09:02 · Score: 1

Which like all imac screens is a magnetic fit.

Not for the last couple of years. I don't know why they got away from it, but it sure was nice.

El Capitan neutered Disk Utility by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 09:10 · Score: 1

http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac-software/el-capitan-disk-utility-3634604/

Shit changes like that are why I haven't moved to anything newer. At the time there were articles about how to get the older, full featured, Disk Utility to run under El Capitan. Can that older version still be made to run in Sierra and High Sierra?

Apple only recognizes Apple stuff by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 09:26 · Score: 0

Apple is about as closed end as you can get in technology. If your all in with Apple stuff your fine. If you step outside that your really not guaranteed anything.
This is the issues that Apple users have faced for a long time.

Re:Apple only recognizes Apple stuff by Camembert · 2017-10-02 16:28 · Score: 1

Chill. It looks like a bug that will likely be fixed in the next os patch.

You're in the wrong place by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 10:16 · Score: 0

I think you've confused Slashdot with Apple's issue tracker. Submit the bug to Apple at https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/

Same behavior in Sierra by guruevi · 2017-10-02 11:19 · Score: 0

And I don't believe it's a "problem" either, encrypted or any hard drive that's been used by a server (eg. as a raw volume for object storage systems) shows up as "uninitialized" when you plug them in but you also don't want a quick link to destroy the data on it.

The only way to inspect the disk properly is to use the underlying Unix utilities where you then perhaps can see there is data on it, and yes, you can still destroy the data on it using command line.

You can delete the data from Disk Utility, but it requires you to partition the disk first and then reformat the partitions, it's fairly similar to how fdisk works.

--
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com

Re: no the hardware went thin for looks and disk s by PoopJuggler · 2017-10-02 11:56 · Score: 1

Since you love to talk shit about Apple constantly, what is a better desktop OS than OSX? Windows? Linux? Because no matter what your answer is I can come up with dozens of reasons why you're wrong.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-10-02 12:04 · Score: 1

but no ram door and how knows how the cooling is setup and how easy it will be to get to the ram / ssd (cards??)

The iMac RAM door is on the back, now.

Carbon by itomato · 2017-10-02 12:04 · Score: 1

Don't discount the "hidden" OS compatibility layers. Carbon, Blue and Yellow boxes mean a great deal (and Carbon lurks today). This was all an in-house effort, AFAIK. Behind the veneer, the old Openstep code has morphed and evolved again. Swift and all the new Core classes and portable Kits where always the roadmap for the future. There's no going back.

Flashbacks of HD SC Setup by itomato · 2017-10-02 12:07 · Score: 1

Had a horrible flashback to HD SC Setup and non-Apple branded disks.

Re:Flashbacks of HD SC Setup by BabblingIdiot · 2017-10-02 14:28 · Score: 1

touché
wasn't there something you had to do with the Resource Editor to get it to recognize disks that didn't have Apple-branded firmware? maybe that's applicable here

Re:WHY WOULD IT? Unformatted = undocumented by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 12:29 · Score: 0

By the looks of several stores I have been in recently Valentines Day is the next major holiday. Shelves filled with candy filled hearts and signage for February 14th.

MultiFinder was in System 6 by tepples · 2017-10-02 12:40 · Score: 1

System 7 was just an attempt to catch up to the rest of the computing world, which would let you put multiple applications side by side on a single display.

Process Manager in System 7 was a refactor of MultiFinder, which was in System 6.

The only other really cool MacOS feature wasn't even an OS feature, though it was made possible by MacOS 7's virtual memory support: Ram Doubler, aka compressed swap. This has only recently become a Linux kernel feature.

I guess zram was waiting for the patent to run out.

Re:MultiFinder was in System 6 by drinkypoo · 2017-10-02 14:43 · Score: 1

Process Manager in System 7 was a refactor of MultiFinder, which was in System 6.
In System 6, the Multifinder ran multiple full-screen applications, and let you switch between them more or less at will until the Multifinder crashed, which it did all the goddamned time. In System 7, all the applications shared a common backdrop, with the menu bar changing to reflect the application currently brought to the foreground, and the Finder still crashed all the goddamned time.
I cut my teeth on the Mac Plus, and then my mother bought a IIci 5/80 with a 8*24 and a two-page mono, upon which she ran mostly Pagemaker. Much much later, I ran netbsd on it and put a cache card in it. I just sold a SE with a Radius accelerator, and am supposedly delivering it on Friday. It's running 6.0.something. I will also sell my last 68k machine soon, an Amiga 1200 with an accelerator. I think I've about had my fun with it.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:MultiFinder was in System 6 by ejasons · 2017-10-04 05:21 · Score: 1

In System 6, the Multifinder ran multiple full-screen applications, and let you switch between them more or less at will until the Multifinder crashed, which it did all the goddamned time. In System 7, all the applications shared a common backdrop, with the menu bar changing to reflect the application currently brought to the foreground, and the Finder still crashed all the goddamned time.

You're thinking of Switcher, which was only available for a short time. Multifinder always allowed windows to be intermixed. For the fun of it, I actually run all of this (System6/Multifinder) in an emulator a few weeks ago.
Re:MultiFinder was in System 6 by drinkypoo · 2017-10-04 06:49 · Score: 1

Well, you must be right. I only had one app to even launch on my Mac sitting here, Word.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 13:02 · Score: 0

You're an idiot. My 2015 iMac has adhesive all over the damned screen holding it in place. They all do.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by AC-x · 2017-10-02 14:38 · Score: 2

imac's dont have glued in screens at all

Apple have been gluing the imac's screen since 2012.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 14:52 · Score: 0

Big difference between the 21.5 entry level and the 27" iMacs. Replaceable memory for a start. The entry level ones are strictly get what you pay for.

Apple is almost as bad you Linux zealots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 15:12 · Score: 0

You people are sad.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Joe_Dragon · 2017-10-02 15:12 · Score: 1

imac pro will not have that.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 16:11 · Score: 0

buddy, that's why it's called sh*t posting ...

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 16:13 · Score: 0

it has been since at least 2012 ...

that is how old mine is!

Re: no the hardware went thin for looks and disk s by HiThere · 2017-10-02 16:58 · Score: 1

You might be able to come up with reasons why you prefer Apple, but the choice isn't objective. I happen to be perfectly satisfied with Linux. Well...that's not true, I'd prefer gnome2 over the KDE desktop I currently have, but Mate isn't as good....

That's written as if it were an objective choice, but it isn't. I've got my preferred way of doing things, and that's my preference. Nothing says you should have the same preferences. I do happen to think that gnome3 is objectively worse than gnome2, but there are those that disagree with me. The choice of Mate vs KDE vs gnome2, however, is driven by personal choices. They all have flaws, but the ones in KDE bother *me* less.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.

Re: and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change d by shm · 2017-10-02 17:30 · Score: 0

âoeProâ hardware for Apple now means âoeamateurs with even more money.â

I did realise Slashdot had become a... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 19:48 · Score: 0

...issue reporting tool.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-02 19:54 · Score: 0

Complete nonsense, imac's dont have glued in screens at all, they are held in place by a magnetic interference fit and can be removed in under a minute with a sucker clamp. The HD is then easily accessible and replaceable. It has been this way since the first Aluminium unibody imacs 10 years ago. Imac's are very easy to work on.

What a moron. Apple has been gluing down the screens of iMacs since at least 2012.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-10-02 21:19 · Score: 1

imac pro will not have that.

You are correct. I stand corrected. Although the cutaway graphics show what appear to be standard RAM sockets Inside; so maybe just not "easily upgradeable" RAM...

We won't really know until iFixit gets out their heat-gun... ;-)

There's menu option for that by Mittengrabber · 2017-10-02 22:04 · Score: 1

Put a new Samsung 850 SSD in a 2010 iMac yesterday and came across this issue. Checking it just now, the option seems to be in the View menu, select Show All Devices. Show Only Volumes is the default and if selected a new drive (with no formatted volumes on it) will not show up. I can only hope that this default view gets changed in an update, on account of it being idiotic as it stands.

Re:There's menu option for that by Mittengrabber · 2017-10-02 22:05 · Score: 1

IN Disk Utility.

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Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-03 01:16 · Score: 0

Not for the last couple of years. I don't know why they got away from it, but it sure was nice.

That's why they got away from it.

Re:and pro hardware (imac pro) you can't change di by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-03 01:52 · Score: 0

Complete nonsense, imac's dont have glued in screens at all, they are held in place by a magnetic interference fit and can be removed in under a minute with a sucker clamp. The HD is then easily accessible and replaceable. It has been this way since the first Aluminium unibody imacs 10 years ago. Imac's are very easy to work on.

Recent iMacs are glued (very sticky adhesive tape), and are very difficult to remove the screen from in order to get to the hard drive. It is not an easy task by any means.

At least the 27" models have a RAM access door, but hard drive access is nigh impossible.

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High Sierra's Disk Utility Does Not Recognize Unformatted Disks (tinyapps.org)

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