The ThinkPad At 25 (fastcodesign.com)

harrymcc writes: On October 5 1992, IBM released a laptop called the ThinkPad 700C. It sported an unusually good color screen, a pointing device called the TrackPoint II, and a distinctive black case. It was an immediate hit. And remarkably, many of the things that made that ThinkPad a ThinkPad remain true of today's models. I talked to some of the people responsible for the line -- which IBM sold to Lenovo in 2005 -- about why it's one of the few consistent brands of technology's last quarter century.

Comments

Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[jfdavis668]

I am a Thinkpad junkie. My personal laptop is a Thinkpad, and I use the trackpoint exclusively. I have the trackpad turned off. Annoys anyone else who tries to use it.

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[thegreatbob]

While I do not currently possess a modern Thinkpad (sold my T60 years ago, now all I have are a couple 600Xs), my next machine almost certainly will be.

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Ed Avis]

The trackpoint is cool -- did you know you can get it on desktop keyboards too? Could I shamelessly plug this ebay auction for an IBM Model M4-1 keyboard: http://www.ebay.com/itm/253185...

(It's a charity auction, I do not make any money from the sale, so I hope this avoids the accusation of spamming.)

The M4-1 is also part of the "Model M" family, although it does not use buckling springs.

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[jenningsthecat]

I am a Thinkpad junkie. My personal laptop is a Thinkpad, and I use the trackpoint exclusively. I have the trackpad turned off. Annoys anyone else who tries to use it.

Amen brother! I'm typing this on a T420s. Dell has, (or had), some computers with trackpoints, but the buttons sucked. IBM / Lenovo seem to be the only ones who can do a trackpoint right. I've even done CAD, (schematics and PCB's), using a trackpoint. It's not as comfortable as using a mouse, but it's something I wouldn't even attempt on one of those annoying trackpads. Which, BTW, is turned off on my computer as well, because otherwise I get nuisance cursor movement when using the trackpoint. Thinkpads rock!

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Aighearach]

I bought my first thinkpad in the late 90s. I bought my most recent one this year.

I got it with a touch screen so that my wife can use it when we travel. lol (so that I can leave the touchpad turned off; it annoys me)

I'm not really a fanboy though; I did shop around and look at the other laptops with a trackpoint equivalent. The thing is, nobody else wants to make one that is standards based so I can choose my own OS, looks like a boring business laptop, has a durable case, and is user serviceable. The touchscreen I wouldn't have minded going without.

The fingerprint scanner is a disappointment, but that's the only one.

The reason it is still awesome is because Lenovo understands the value. It isn't often a company buys a brand from another company, and also sees its value. Usually when that happens they have some sort of scheme to increase the value that destroys it completely. So props to Lenovo for acting like they're just Jr engineers updating the models and not changing the past decisions about it. It isn't IBM anymore, but it retains many of the product design qualities even today.

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[thegreatbob]

If that's somehow magically not been snagged by then, I might just have to buy it (provided it's been relisted) when I get paid...

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Junta]

This is one of the reasons I liked when they finally went to a clickable trackpad. I no longer have to disable it, I just disable tap-to-click and it's still nice to use sometimes. I use the trackpoint the vast majority of the time, occasionally the trackpad, and when someone uses my system for a second, they are never put out by their favored input method not working.

Of course I think their first clickable trackpad removed *all* the buttons, but the one I have is the generation after, with trackpoint and three buttons intact, and the touchpad a very nice large clickable one that my wrists never cause issues with.

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Junta]

Unfortunately, after using a modern trackpoint, going back to that generation of trackpoint is annoying because it is not *nearly* as good as they are now.

Re: Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Miamicanes]

There's also the Model M13, which is basically a M (buckling springs & all) with Trackpoint. The catch is, the left & right mouse buttons (below the spacebar) are badly-designed and wear out after 5-10 years. I have two M13 keyboards in a closet with worn-out buttons. I keep hoping someone will eventually make replacement buttons for it.

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Ed Avis]

You are right - the first generation Trackpoint was great on a 640x480 display but struggles a bit with high resolution monitors. Still, if you are mostly a keyboard worker with the occasional mouse click, it can be worth the space saving.

Re: Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Ed Avis]

Unicomp still make trackpoint Model Ms I believe. Unfortunately they don't have the patents to the original IBM trackpoint so they have an inferior implementation (so I've heard).

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Ed Avis]

I think PayPal now has "pay after delivery" on most eBay purchases, so you might be OK to buy now and pay later.

Re:Won't buy a laptop without a trackpoint

[Anonymous Coward]

I too love the nipple!

Story Denied: Please Refile Under "Lenovo"

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

I see the big "IBM" logo on the story, but (at TFA notes) this has been Lenovo's baby for about half of those 25 years.

Neat laptop? Meh. I still have one and it still works. (It's a durable prop for small-audience "retro computing" talks.)

Did it keep up with the times? Well, like most of IBM, that's a big fat "no". And does anyone care? Prolly not.

Re:Story Denied: Please Refile Under "Lenovo"

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to refute you...but wow, time flies!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#Acquisition_by_Lenovo (It was acquired in 2005)

Early thinkpads

[freeze128]

Early thinkpads were durable, yes, but their drivers for the audio (MWave) were terrible!

Re:Early thinkpads

[Anonymous Coward]

*beep*

What more audio do you need?

Classics never go out of style

[ErichTheRed]

The ThinkPad is still my favorite laptop brand, even with the changes Lenovo has done to it in the past. I liked them even when they were ridiculously expensive IBM machines and I couldn't get employers to buy them for me. Yes, it's boxy and boring compared to a MacBook Pro or other consumer laptops, but having that extra build quality helps when you're travelling. Lenovo did cheapen it a little bit in the name of margin, but it's not nearly as flimsy as other laptops in its class. When they were IBM laptops, you really got what you paid for in terms of rugged design (along with all the extra weight that entailed.)

The eternal problem with a classic design is knowing when to modernize it, what people like about it and what should/shouldn't change. A few years ago, they moved to a more industry-standard keyboard layout and people lost their minds. Getting rid of the older IBM keyboard turned a lot of people off, but I adjusted. What I hated was when they got rid of the physical trackpoint buttons in favor of this huge clickable trackpad button. That took only one generation for Lenovo to say "oops" and put them back...you had people swearing they would never give Lenovo another cent if they didn't address it.

Product designers should take note of the ThinkPad. Instead of trying to cater to hipsters at the expense of everyone else, there should at least be some consultation when deciding what features to add or drop. Some people don't care that their machine weighs and extra pound if it means that someone sitting on it won't totally destroy it. Lenovo makes a lot of money off ThinkPad customers compared to their incredibly low margin consumer models, so I'm sure that's the only reason they keep the classic design...but I know I'll be buying them until they're no longer useful for me.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Mal-2]

The Thinkpad remains a viable option when you don't quite need a Toughbook, but need something that can handle being lugged to random places daily and used on top of all manner of surfaces. Someone like an insurance adjuster, who does all of their real work at remote locations, is a good example of the Thinkpad demographic.

  They're rugged, but not absurdly ruggedized like a pickup truck. If you need it to survive being handled like a briefcase, get a Toughbook.
  The clitmouse is better than a trackpad for most things, especially when there is also a lot of typing involved. There is a learning curve, but it's worth it, and Thinkpads really do have the best Trackpoints. They suck for a few specific cases, like trying to draw, but that's when you would switch to the trackpad or a cordless mouse.
  I really liked the old keyboard layout, non-standard as it was, and I'm sorry to see it changed. To me, that was part of the Thinkpad identity.

Everything else about them had good and bad points along the way. There were fast ones and slow, ones with nice IPS panels and some crap panels too (presumably to get the bargain segment -- not sure it worked out), and resolution anywhere from rather nice for the time to bare minimum acceptable.

If anyone is trying to figure out the "essence of the Thinkpad", there's my take on it.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Aighearach]

The keyboard stuff is hilarious. I thought the chiclet keys would be awful, but they're great.

I bought one of the lowest rated models; I wanted a full keyboard with keypad, and it loses about 1.5 stars on Lenovo's own site because it is stuffed full of idiot reviews about hating having a full keyboard because when they put it on their lap(!) their hands are in a slightly non-optimal position.

The good thing is that keeps the model priced lower than the others, (it is actually cheaper than the exact same thing with regular keyboard) and yet they'll always have a few of those models because they sell it to big accounting firms and places like that where they absolutely won't buy it without a keypad.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Junta]

Yeah, that one generation was nuts, also had the premium laptop with no function keys and home and end where capslock is. What crazy sort of company replaces the F-keys with a touch strip ;)

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Junta]

I'll even go one step further. With the previous keyboard, they would *always* leave marks on the screen when closed. I have not seen that phenoenon on any of the chiclet key models.

I was terrified it would be like Acer or Toshiba chiclet keyboards I tried, but the feel is really good and I don't miss the old keyboard at all. I did miss the buttons for trackpoint, but with them back I'm fine.

The one annoyance I have remaining is the function keys doing double duty as volume control. I'd at *least* like a button that is *always* mute, regardless of the f-key/media key preference and fn-lock setting.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Anonymous Coward]

The thinkpad line could never hold a candle to the battery life of the MacBook line. That gap may be narrowing now, but I'd wager a modern X1 Carbon couldn't hold a candle to a MacBook Pro 13" in battery life (and it only weights 0.4 lbs less which I realize is over 13% less than the MBP 13, but not worth the sacrifice).

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I am a chiclet convert as well. The company I work for uses Thinkpads, and when I received one a few years ago with the new style keyboard I almost had a fit. However, after using, I have to say there really isn't much of a difference.
Although I still want to know who thought the function key should go in the lower left corner instead of control. As long as they keep the option in the BIOS to switch the keys I'm good. Literally the first thing I do on a new one. The day the remove that option I might just have to murder someone!

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Aighearach]

I'm pretty happy with the function key stuff since the function lock allows all the setting combinations.

On linux the extra non-media keys for calculator, browser, mail, and the other one are just launchers. Even a backwards person like me using xfce gets easy access to those without having to muck with key mappings. You could just do use pactl to set the mute with one of those.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Junta]

Yeah, but I don't like having to hit Fn-F1 and Fn-F4 to mute speaker/mic when suddenly I'm in a meeting and something auto-plays. Alternatively, I'd despise having to hit fn-f1 to hit f1 when I need f1. And it's not one of those modal things where toggling fnlk makes it any better moment to moment.

Fine for the other special keys, I never urgently need to mess with brightness, I prefer the native OS shortcut for spawning multi-monitor/projector management, I never need to cut wireless and if I do it's never an urgent thnig. I've never even used the other functions. I think phones prove the point by always having volume buttons despite getting rid of all other hard button controls.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[mattventura]

For me, it's not the chiclet keyboard, it's the layout. It's especially irritating on some of the laptops where there's clearly enough space to put more keys up top, but there's just empty plastic instead. Also, what the hell is with the print screen key location? I'd hazard a guess that there are numerous buttons used more often than printscreen and thus are more deserving of a dedicated button.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Aighearach]

Some professions take a large number of screenshots though, so it isn't really that surprising. A lot of people do it recreationally, too.

Re:Classics never go out of style

[Aighearach]

On linux the projector button already just brings up the OS display dialog.

You didn't like, install vendor software and drivers, did you?!

But I suspect even on low quality operating systems you can still remap keys. There is probably even a command line mute program you could launch from "print screen." I understand wanting the defaults to be your favorites, but you can have the actual capability you desire anyways.

I really can't imagine even walking into the room a meeting will be held in carrying technology that might auto play some sort of media. Truly shocking what people will subject themselves to. Then again, I also use headphones if I'm actually going to watch media outside of sound booth, and the thinkpad hardware mute keeps track of separate settings for headphones and speaker, so the speaker hasn't even been unmuted since the day I got the thing. If I plug something into the 3.5mm jack, sound comes out; if I unplug it, sound stops coming out. Easy and polite.

I guess it answers the age-old question; "Does That Guy know he's That Guy?"

I used to like thinkpads

[Anonymous Coward]

But I'm really annoyed with many of the "improvements", to the point I'd still prefer a trackpoint but don't see a point preferring a lenovo. They're basically overpriced "best industry" mediocre crap with some remnants of a decent legacy thrown in. Glossy screens! Widescreen! Not even a decent keyboard any longer!

The entire point of the f'n thing was that it was usable for touch-typists. Almost no hardware today meets that criterion.

Re:I used to like thinkpads

[Junta]

My brand new thinkpad does not have a glossy screen....

Yes they are widescreen... just like everybody else...

The keyboard is still decent. It feels as nice despite being a chiclet. The shallower keys leave my screen looking nicer when opened, and if you *did* care about the sort of thing, keyboard backlight is nicer than thinklight was, but I never use that either way.

Re:I used to like thinkpads

[Ed Avis]

Well, Mac laptops usually have a 16:10 ratio not the letterbox 16:9 seen on most PC laptops. Google's Pixelbook is 3:2, as is Microsoft's Surface Book. So it is possible (at the high end of the market) to have a screen shape designed for work rather than watching videos. You'd think Lenovo would come up with something similar to preserve the price premium Thinkpads have usually had over other laptop brands.

Re:I used to like thinkpads

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Glossy screens!

What? Our entire company uses Thinkpads, ranging from T420s to T470s and the equivalent X-series. Not a single one of them has a glossy screen.

Widescreen!

Yes, like literally every single other laptop on the market. I'll let you in on a secret: Unless you select the absolute bargain basement 1366x768 shit screen option that literally only exists to hit a marketing price point, the available screens have the same vertical resolution as your beloved 4:3 screens, PLUS additional horizontal space.

Not even a decent keyboard any longer!

The chiclet keyboard is great.

Re:I used to like thinkpads

[Junta]

Well the X1 tablet is 3:2, but despite being very good for a tablet keyboard, it's still not as care free as a real hard attached keyboard in terms of opening it up on your lap.

Re:I used to like thinkpads

[Ed Avis]

Ten years ago I had a laptop with a 1600x1200 screen. (And IBM had a 2048x1536 Thinkpad). It's hard to get that amount of vertical space now. I guess in the count of pixels it's beaten by a 'retina' or 4k display, but that's still not quite as useful as a taller screen.

Re:I used to like thinkpads

[KozmoStevnNaut]

There are certainly laptops available with higher resolution displays, but you have to pay for them.

All of the T470 models can be had with a 2560x1440 display, and the P51 can be had with a 4K (3840x2160) display.

Re:I used to like thinkpads

[Ed Avis]

You're quite right -- what I mean is that a squarer shape would be more useful than a letterbox one. In terms of raw pixels, the top-end displays today beat those of a decade ago (though it has taken a long time). In a device that you can rotate to portrait or landscape, it's kinda useful to make it wider, since then you are also making it taller if used in portrait mode. But a laptop screen can't be rotated, it has to be one shape all the time, so for a "work" device taller is better. Still I have to admit that the market has tended not to agree with those who want a squarer shape, whether in desktop monitors, laptops, tablets, or phones. Blackberry's Passport (with its square screen at 1440x1440, I believe) was a flop. Though that might be for reasons other than the screen...

16:10 ratio screen please.. please please.

[Anonymous Coward]

A not awful screen with no working space.
16:10 ratio like they used to be.
This is all I want in a laptop these days.

Re: 16:10 ratio screen please.. please please.

[Miamicanes]

Even BETTER would be a Thinkpad with 12.9" 4:3 2732x2048 display (like Apple's largest iPad Pro).

Or maybe a 17-18" high-ppi widescreen that can be configured to pretend it's a side-by-side 3:4 portrait & 4:3 landscape display (aspect ratios approximate). Why "pretend"? Because Windows puts two smaller monitors to better, more-efficient use than a single widescreen having identical total resolution.

Re:16:10 ratio screen please.. please please.

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Ratio doesn't matter. Vertical resolution matters. As long as you get the same or better vertical resolution, having extra horizontal space is quite nice.

Old Thinkpads

[Bing Tsher E]

I am still looking forward to taking possession of my fathers old IBM Thinkpad. He passed away early this year and his Thinkpad is still on his desk, I suspect. I am four states away so I will need to wait until Christmas to get it. It's one of the Pentium 1 generation, which I don't know if that makes it first generation or not. He bought it with the IBM Employees Discount, though. I have had the fear for some months now that my mother will listen to some 'security moron' and have the hard drive on it wiped before I can take possession of it. Dad did use it for all his financial records, as he prefered Lotus. He was old IBM, when he first started working at Big Blue he programmed the IBM 650. He's never needed more than that Thinkpad for home computing; my mom is the one who always gets the new machine.

Re:Old Thinkpads

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I think the T2x line was the pinnacle of the Thinkpad. It had the Pentium 3, a reasonably power efficient processor, and could be equipped with built-in WiFi. I had a T23 that I probably sold for $300. I wish I never had.

I'm solidly in the Apple ecosystem,

[jpellino]

but these puppies are my go to wintel machines. You can pound nails with them, they keep up with features, and hit a sweet spot.

Thinkpads still rock

[JohnFen]

Even the old ones are still pretty great.

IBM PC Convertible II

[pecosdave]

That was my first computer.

I got it used shortly after the original Pentium came out. I loved it. Real mechanical keyboard with slightly smaller than normal keys, it was actually EASIER to type on than a normal keyboard. First IBM compatible PC with 3.5" floppies if I'm not mistaken. The half-height LCD screen made Battle Chess hilarious to play with all the little short-fat chess pieces. Using the function key was exceedingly easy and made far more sense than it does on a modern Think Pad, not to mention it wasn't where the Control Key is today, or in the way at all.

Mine is now literally in a museum in Tempe if I'm not mistaken. I sort of miss it, I would like to have it back. If I had it back I would use it for writing, real writing, I've started novels before - had everything stolen, long story. Put MS Works 1.05 for DOS on this thing and you can't ask for a much better word processor without the distraction of a modern PC.

Not enthusiastic about Thinkpads anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to be a dedicated ThinkPad user. They were perfect for running open source operating systems such as Linux or BSD. Thinkpads are well-supported with open source drivers, detailed specifications are available at http://psref.lenovo.com/, and spare parts are available at https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/partslookup. Many models are also built to military standards of reliability (MIL-STD-810G).

But within the last several years the hardware has become less appealing. Only Lenovo-approved wireless cards are allowed. The keyboards aren't as excellent as they used to be (although they're still pretty good). The clickpads are horrible for work that requires precision. (See http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/lenovo-thinkpad-w540-mobile-workstation-review/.) And fewer options are available for customizing the hardware. (Do you want a laptop without a built-in privacy-invading webcam? Well, you probably won't be able to purchase a Thinkpad without one. Do you want a DVD drive on a 14-inch laptop? Well, you can't get that either.) Lenovo also revealed itself to be untrustworthy in the Superfish scandal:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/two-weeks-on-superfish-debacle-still-causing-pain-for-some-lenovo-customers/

For my next laptop, I'm seriously considering HP, instead. I can purchase a 14-inch HP with physical buttons below the trackpad, without a webcam, and with a DVD drive. I can't get any of those features on the current generation of Thinkpads.

Re:Not enthusiastic about Thinkpads anymore

[jfdavis668]

Funny, I'm thinking of buying a new Thinkpad to get a webcam and so I don't have a DVD drive.

Re:Not enthusiastic about Thinkpads anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I prefer leaving it off and having one spare USB DVD drive in the drawer, which in the end never got used. When I got a T440p there was no option to leave off the DVD drive. In the past two years, its only function has been to remind me that it even exists by popping out when I accidentally brush the eject button on the side of the chassis. I never even used it to install software since DVD drives are too slow and I'd instead image a USB flash drive with install media from another computer.

Re:Not enthusiastic about Thinkpads anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, I'm thinking of buying a new Thinkpad to get a webcam and so I don't have a DVD drive.

Your choices reflect the sentiments of most computer users nowadays. But you missed my point: Thinkpads have fewer options than they used to. If you have any harware preferences that are outside the mainstream, then it's more difficult to buy a Thinkpad than it used to be.

Re: Those were the days...

[ZorinLynx]

How in the heck do you accidentally delete command.com? I was a heavy DOS user in the 90s and am boggling at that.

And they are repairable!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have bought several for myself and family. The one feature that keeps me a customer is that the things are repairable! Unlike any other laptop I have owned, these things can be taken apart and serviced with minimal issues. And the service documentation is superb. I have replaced power connectors, hinges, cooling fans and keyboards in addition to the usual memory and hard drive changes. Glad Lenovo hasn't changed that!

Re:And they are repairable!

[avandesande]

always a ton of parts and off lease laptops on ebay

Re: And they are repairable!

[Anonymous Coward]

China is very diligent while gutting american industry.

Written on a Lenovo Phone.

Re:And they are repairable!

[Major_Disorder]

always a ton of parts and off lease laptops on ebay

Just recently bought a T420 with 16GB RAM, i7 processor, and a 250GB SSD from ebay. Got it for about what I would expect to pay for a new crap consumer grade laptop with lower specs. But this thing is fantastic. I put Linux (Mint 17.3 Cinnamon) on it, everything works with no issues, and it just flies for my workloads.

Re: And they are repairable!

[Miamicanes]

Dell's Precision laptops are equally-repairable. They're practically SFF desktop workstations in laptop form.

Upgrades I've done over the years:

* added mSATA SSD

* replaced original 500-gig hybrid drive with 2TB drive, and configured mSATA drive w/64-gig cache partition for new HD.

* added 2x4 gigs of RAM

* upgraded the original non-Intel mPCIe wifi to a better (MIMO-capable) 802.11ac Intel card (the original card left one of the factory-installed antennas unused)

* replaced the original Quadro K1100m video card with thirdparty Quadro K2100m card. This one was a nail-biting gamble because there's no real standard for screw & heatsink layout, but it worked.

The only potential glitch I noted with the new video card is due to the way Dell implemented switchable graphics... to use Quadro graphics on the laptop's own panel, you HAVE to enable IntelHD graphics (basically, the internal panel is wired to IntelHD, which "passes through" the Quadro graphics).

If you don't disable switchable graphics in BIOS setup, Windows 10 stupidly tries to use IntelHD for EVERYTHING unless you explicitly configure specific apps to use Quadro graphics... even games. Since I normally run docked with two external monitors, I like to disable switchable graphics so Windows won't insidiously use IntelHD (I played WoW for months before discovering that it was using IntelHD... running it with Quadro graphics vastly improved things like reflections & antialiasing).

With the original card, it would temporarily re-enable IntelHD switchable graphics during POST & BIOS setup to ensure you always had working video at powerup... with the new card, I'm fucked if I go on a trip & forget to re-enable switchable graphics before I undock until I can hijack a TV or monitor w/HDMI input to use long enough to re-enable IntelHD (I now carry a 1.5-meter HDMI cable everywhere when traveling).

The 17" model (m6800) actually has a second 2.5" drive bay (I have a 15" m4800), and both the 15" and 17" models allow you to swap out the internal optical drive for an additional 2.5" HD. Personally, I think there could be a market for someone to make a thin, larger-diameter drive like the old Quantum Bigfoot, if they made them with a form-factor identical to the de-facto standard for laptop optical drives. IMHO, a 4-8 terabyte second internal HD would be more useful to many users than an internal optical drive, and using a wide optical bay for a 2.5" drive just seems like a waste. With how much empty space many new laptops have inside, I'm surprised the industry never came up with a standard for thin 3.5" hard drives with the same interface as 2.5" laptop drives.

Re:And they are repairable!

[Anonymous Coward]

They do have a BIOS whitelist, most other brands don't.

A BIOS whitelist will prevent you from using any but a small list of approved hardware (ie: PCIe cards) on your laptop. The BIOS will check the PCIe ports and when it sees something it doesn't like, it will halt.

That means you can't use any wifi or gps/modem card in Lenovo laptops, except the ones approved (with artificially higher price) in it.

So for example, you can't upgrade to a 802.11ac wifi card in an X230, or use an Atheros based one.

Re: Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a Christian Dale Reimer anecdote, which means it's quite likely to be made up on the spot. His narcissism and over-sized ego are only matched by his plus-size fetish underwear.

1st day on the job roomate breaks 7k laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

This is CREIMER he's probably pretty autistic or something. My mind boggles at what kind of person would ask to borrow what would be almost 7000 dollas in today's money, knowing you just started your very important job..... and be so fucking sloppy with it that they delete COMMAND.COM. Like how in the fuck do you do that?

I'm sure if said roommate reacted with anything other than kind understanding creimer would have cried about it too. Simply amazing.

How long were you roommates after that?

Re: Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

Christopher, my love,

I am deeply sorry. I didn't feel well lately but I am better now.
I am sorry that I called you all sorts of names on /. and I feel
truly ashamed of myself.

The python click script you wrote for me my sweet love for my
pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work.

Could you come visit me in my studio so we could look at it?

Signed:
Your sweetee who will love you for ever.

Re: Those were the days...

[rickb928]

You could try

del c:\command.com /F

or

del c:\command.com /A:HS

Add /S for more fun, though having 2 command.com files is indeed a old trick for those who got derfed regularly - finding the right command.com can be more trouble than worth, and hiding one is a nuisance.

There are more devious ways to munge the command executable...

Re: Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

C.D. Reimer is a renowned Slashdot collaborator, as he puts it himself; "Because of the quality of my posts and my article submissions, I'm a highly rated commentator and moderator."

But does anybody ever wondered what "C.D." stands for? Well, it stands for Creimy Dumpty of course!

Creimy Dumpty sat on the wall,
Creimy Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses
And all the king's men
Couldn't put Creimy Dumpty
Together again.

Creimy's siblings video and theme song, very realistic, especially the pants, just like Creimy's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Creimy's real pictures:
Before the sex change:
https://ibb.co/cc7Ddw
After the sex change:
https://ibb.co/gVad65

Creimy's "enterprise-level" chair, he talks about it all the time on slashdot:
http://www.keynamics.com/image...

Creimy's head, while his supervisor was talking to him, not with him, since it is impossible to do with Creimy:
https://school.discoveryeducat...

Creimy acting in educational resource document, he actually confirmed himself on Slashdot that he was handled by Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education! He is really a king Dumpty!:
http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

Still a happy customer

[lurker412]

I'm posting this from a four year old W530. My previous T61 lasted seven years. I had a few problems with the T61, most importantly a melted NVIDIA coprocessor, which Lenovo fixed quickly and for free. I used to use Dell Latitudes, but Thinkpads have a far better build. They're not sexy, just rock solid. I don't know how long my current machine will last, but I have a strong suspicion that the next one will be another Thinkpad. FWIW.

Re: Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly! We, at Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education, couldn't agree more with you!

For the valuable /. users that might already have read the following, please note that there is an important update.

IMPORTANT UPDATE:
Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education has invested money to buy Chris a new chair:
http://www.keynamics.com/image...

Information about Christopher Dale Reimer and autistic people:

Autistic people have obsessions about things normal people don't care. For example, one of our autistic patient went haywire when he realized that there was a penny missing in his pocket change.

To calm him down, one of our educator pretended to have found it on the floor and gave a penny to him.

The autistic patient condition went even worse because he realized it wasn't the same penny!

Chris has an obsession with budgeting every penny. He doesn't understand that most people do not budget to the penny and have a flexible amount they allow for miscellaneous items.

I am Nancy Guerrero and I am Director of Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education. We use Chris' (a.k.a. creimer,cdreimer) picture in our document because he is the hardest case we have ever had to handle:
http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

Our artists were inspired by the low carb diet that Christopher follows scrupulously for the small lunch box and by the picture linked below for the rest. I am sure that you will notice the similarities such as the bump on the side of his chest and more:
https://ibb.co/gVad65

Please be easy on Christopher although, I am aware that some of our staff handling Chris post joke comments here and obvoiusly, the Santa Clara County Office of Education disapprove that behavior vehemently:
https://school.discoveryeducat...

But it isn't Chris' fault if he is the way he is. We do the best we can do with him and he is partially integrated into society. We try to cure his abnormal need for attention but he is kind of stubborn and won't listen to anybody.

Thank You dear users,
-Nancy Guerrero

Re:Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

Christopher, my dear sweet love,

I am deeply sorry. I didn't feel well lately but I am better now.
I am sorry that I called you all sorts of names on /. and I feel
truly ashamed of myself.

The python click script you wrote for me my sweet love for my
pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work.

Could you come visit me in my studio so we could look at it?

Signed:
Your sweetee who will love you for ever.

Best power cord I ever had

[jfdavis668]

I don't remember the Thinkpad model, something from the late 90's. Had a power cord where the cord to the wall was just a few inches long, and had a long cord from the block to the laptop. The long cord was designed to wrap around the block, then the plug snapped on to hold it in place. There was even grooves in the block to keep the cord neat. Made a very tidy package you could then slip into your bag. I wish they keep making those.

Re: Best power cord I ever had

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh you mean like how Apple has been doing?

Re: Best power cord I ever had

[jfdavis668]

No, I never saw an Apple cord anything like the Thinkpad one.

I have

[Hognoxious]

I have two T40s. They're that old they have non-PAE processors, I had to use live-build to make a respin of Kali for them when XP support ended. One doesn't boot at all and the other has an intermittent backlight. They're scheduled for surgery next week.

Re: Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither my roommate nor I knew what were doing.

And with crammar like that, you still don't.

C64

[Anonymous Coward]

How?

In 1996 Windows95 had obviously already been released and DOS was only for games.
I'm not even sure I believe that this happened as a thinkpad of the era would have came with windows95 or OS/2, unless there was a critical piece of software that didn't run on either one. Why would you have DOS/Win 3.11?

What makes you go to a brand new command line and start typing in shit like, scratch, remove, rm, del, delete, erase? How could you have lived in silicon valley and had zero exposure to anything more advanced than a c64?

Are you just making up stories again?

701C

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was in college around 1995 IBM set up a demo in the student bookstore with the Thinkpad lineup. I first saw the 701C with the butterfly keyboard. I mean, instant techo- lust. Like the first time I saw an NES. Anyway, I think it was around $3500 which is something like 5 grand now. Completely unobtainable for a student. But did I ever want one. For years, I always toyed with the idea of getting one, *just because*. However they were so obsolete by the time I could afford one, it was pointless. What a great design though....

Re: Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

the DEL *.*

Which would delete everything, not just command.com, you pachyderm.

(Required subject)

[temcat]

I'm not a fan of my Thinkpad T430. It has a noisy fan (not a manufacturing defect, but a common issue — have to use TPFanControl) and is not particularly fast. Heavy too, but that's totally expectable. It has a nice screen and is very serviceable though.

Re:(Required subject)

[sd4f]

Having been a user of thinkpads from the IBM days, I can say that somehow, Lenovo has been able to take a genuine, quality product, and turn it into something more like the other counterfeit chinese knock-offs.

Re: Those were the days...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is no big change Creimy, you still don't know what you are doing nowadays.

C.D. Reimer is a renowned Slashdot collaborator, as he puts it himself; "Because of the quality of my posts and my article submissions, I'm a highly rated commentator and moderator."

But does anybody ever wondered what "C.D." stands for? Well, it stands for Creimy Dumpty of course!

Creimy Dumpty sat on the wall,
Creimy Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses
And all the king's men
Couldn't put Creimy Dumpty
Together again.

Creimy's siblings video and theme song, very realistic, especially the pants, just like Creimy's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Creimy's real pictures:
Before the sex change:
https://ibb.co/cc7Ddw
After the sex change:
https://ibb.co/gVad65

Creimy's "enterprise-level" chair, he talks about it all the time on slashdot:
http://www.keynamics.com/image...

Creimy's head, while his supervisor was talking to him, not with him, since it is impossible to do with Creimy:
https://school.discoveryeducat...

Creimy acting in educational resource document, he actually confirmed himself on Slashdot that he was handled by Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education! He is really a king Dumpty!:
http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

so they're to blame for the trackpoint

[hackertourist]

I've had a few laptops with trackpoints, and I kept bumping into them while typing. This would inevitably select the last few lines I'd written, then the next keystroke would overwrite the selection.
After the first few such errors, every laptop I had had its trackpoint disabled within 5 minutes of the first boot. Placing a joystick in the middle of the keyboard has to be one of the dumbest decisions ever made.

Re:so they're to blame for the trackpoint

[DCFusor]

I've had this exact problem with trackpads - tap it while tying and text goes "wherever" - in the same or some other window which is disaster during code dev.

I've never had a trackpoint, but was thinking it might solve that one. Nope?
And people scorned the manuf (Acer?) who once put the trackpad above the keyboard instead of below.
Obviously most users either don't or can't touch type. If you do your palm WILL hit the trackpad.
It's especially bad for proficient touch typists as you might only look up every now and then to find out you've been telling the computer crazy stuff with the cursor where it is, rather than where you thought it should be.

Racing Stripes

[sk999]

I always liked the red "racing stripes" on the mouse buttons on my first two Thinkpads. Unfortunately IBM/Lenovo left them off my X60S (which is what I am using right now). If they've been restored, however, I will probably consider a Thinkpad again in the future after this machine gets too old.

I used to be a fan

[sd4f]

I really liked the design of the IBM thinkpads, they really paid attention to details which agreed with me. Admittedly, I'm not a typical laptop user, and that's why current thinkpads are dead to me. They have pretty much dropped all the unique features that made the devices more convenient for engineers and programmers.

The main thing now is, why pay a premium for a device which is marginally different to the entry level stuff in terms of function, or at least, imperceptibly different from the mid range?

I participated in the retro thinkpad surveys (looks like that has gone nowhere), because I'd really like to see some of the old features come back, namely a 7 row keyboard, by far the best compromise of a compact keyboard, yet still having the function of a full desktop one. A lot of other classic features, people also generally wanted to see come back, like the keyboard light (really useful when you have documents to look at in the dark, can't be done with backlit keys), lid latches and abandoning the awful 16:9 aspect ratio and go to something taller like 16:10 or 3:2.

I recall a memo from lenovo, regarding their concern about losing a lot of business sales to macbooks. Well my sentiment is when you start dropping features to make your product more like a macbook, as a customer why should I go for some wannabe, might as well just go for the real thing. Similarly, if they're going to make the product rather indistinguishable in function from entry level to mid range devices, why bother spending premium dollars?

Re:I used to be a fan

[KozmoStevnNaut]

They have pretty much dropped all the unique features that made the devices more convenient for engineers and programmers.

Such as?

The main thing now is, why pay a premium for a device which is marginally different to the entry level stuff in terms of function, or at least, imperceptibly different from the mid range?

Because they're better built, more reliable, easy to repair and have amazing parts availability? Only HP and Dell come close to matching that, and they're still far behind.

I participated in the retro thinkpad surveys (looks like that has gone nowhere)

It's coming out, with an oldschool 7-row keyboard and all.

I recall a memo from lenovo, regarding their concern about losing a lot of business sales to macbooks. Well my sentiment is when you start dropping features to make your product more like a macbook, as a customer why should I go for some wannabe, might as well just go for the real thing. Similarly, if they're going to make the product rather indistinguishable in function from entry level to mid range devices, why bother spending premium dollars?

As I mentioned above, because Thinkpads are better built, more reliable, easy to repair and have amazing parts availability.

Try changing the battery on a Macbook. Heck, try changing anything on a Macbook. I hope you have an Apple Store nearby.

Re:I used to be a fan

[sd4f]

Such as?

It has kind of been a bunch of small things for me, which I've more or less listed; big one is the keyboard layout, but also features like the thinklight, lid latches, i personally prefer them, I think the build quality has gotten worse, may be better than the competition, but offerings I've seen from dell and HP are significantly better than they once were, and they do have a very premium feel, albeit, also have those cheap features which the thinkpads now have. Also screen aspect ratio; 16:9 has no place on a machine for "those who do", extra vertical pixels go a long way to help with many things in productivity related tasks.

It's coming out, with an oldschool 7-row keyboard and all.

I had a look, ok it has finally been announced, after a long period of nothing. They've brought back the 7 row keyboard, but seriously, everything else that people voted for, beyond the regular stuff hasn't been included; still a 16:9 screen, no lid latches, no thinklight, basic ultrabook laptop. It comes across a bit basic and with a premium price.

Re:I used to be a fan

[KozmoStevnNaut]

16:9 has no place on a machine for "those who do", extra vertical pixels go a long way to help with many things in productivity related tasks.

You can easily get laptops with 1440 or 2160 vertical pixels (Thinkpad T470 and P51, respectively), so what exactly is the drawback to the extra horizontal pixels when compared to a 4:3 of similar vertical resolution? Extra horizontal resolution is wonderful for terminals, documentation and various side bars, further freeing up vertical space. People complain about not having 4:3 screens anymore, and I will concede that there was a couple of years where 1080p was the biggest you could get, but we've had massive vertical resolution for years now, in widescreens. If you buy a laptop with a shitty 1366x768 or similar screen today, it's simply because you didn't do the research.

The only people still complaining about 16:9 are the people who haven't realized that 4K and 5K monitors exist.

Re:I used to be a fan

[sd4f]

I'm talking about 16:10 or 3:2 display ratios, relative to 16:9 they have more vertical space at the same width and they're just much better to use. going to 2560x1440 or 4k, they're still 16:9 aspect ratios, and rather annoying to use.

There's a reason apple persist with 16:10 on their macbooks. It's a small detail, but an important one for some.

Lenovo

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM no longer owns the thinkpad. Stop making that association. Lenovo dropped the quality of the thinkpad to negative territory. Yes, Lenovo sucks. It amazes me that they are even in business with the shit that they make.

My first thinkpad

[bangular]

My first thinkpad was the last generation with IBM branding. Then I read on slashdot that Lenovo had been producing them long before the sale, and thus my longtime streak of Lenovo laptops. I've never had a hardware failure on any of them (original IBM or Lenovo). Software is another story *cough* superfish *cough*

Re:My first thinkpad

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Like anything else, Thinkpads suck with Windows on them. Install Linux and be happy. Mint installed flawlessly on my T420 and everything works out of the box (except hibernate, which is for scrubs, anyway).

Re:My first thinkpad

[Walter White]

My understanding is that superfish was not installed on the Thinkpad line. I did get it with my Lenovo Y50 but it was a non-issue for me since I usually run Linux. My last Thinkpad was a T500 which IIRC was produced after Lenovo bought IBM's laptop business. It was returned twice for a loose charging connection and the fix never lasted more than a month or two. I purchased a Lenovo Y50 after that and it has fared worse than my Thinkpads. That's good to hear your Thinkpad is still working well. I don't see myself buying another.

My first Thinkpad

[Walter White]

My first Thinkpad was a 750Cs. I've owned a bunch along the way, upgrading every three years or so. My most recent Thinkpad is a T500. All of them still run. The T500 has an annoyingly loose charging cable socket and for which I returned it twice and which went bad again shortly after return. That was my first inkling that quality and support had slipped. My most recent Lenovo is a Y50 which I'm using to type this. The screen was crap (and which I replaced with an IPS panel.) The case is cracked near the hinges. The touchpad is horrible under Linux and surprisingly, even worse under Windows. (Maybe I need to install Lenovo drivers, but after the Superfish debacle I'm reluctant to install anything from the Lenovo site.) I have a small portable speaker plugged into the audio jack because something has gone bad with built in audio. It continues to go down hill. As almost an aside, I had to replace my wife's Lenovo laptop because the plastic around the hinges busted to the point where it is nearly impossible to open/close the lid w/out the case springing open.

I hope people buying Thinkpads today are getting better build quality and service from them. Based on my other Lenovo experiences I won't buy another.

This is a high quality post (Feat:DOS ASM)

[Anonymous Coward]

1) c64 supports wildcards so certainly you'd recognize the foolishness of typing something as obviously fucking stupid as del *.*
2) Your dos is weak as fuck because you can type >DEL. and save yourself 3 keystrokes.
3) All versions of MS-DOS command.com have asked you if you are sure you want to delete everything since version 1.1 and you have to press the Y key ./msdos/v11source/COMMAND.ASM:179:SUREMES DB "Are you sure (Y/N)? $" ./msdos/v11source/COMMAND.ASM:1253: MOV DX,OFFSET TRANGROUP:SUREMES ;"Are you sure (Y/N)?"

In all subsequent versions of COMMAND.COM's DEL you have to press Y and hit return.

So you typed DEL *.* like a jackass. Then it asked you if you were sure and you had two more chances not to fuck up your buddy's work computer.

Jesus christ with friends like you... well why not kys?