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How Comcast is Shortchanging Customers In Vermont (wired.com)

New submitter mirandakatz writes: Comcast is suing Vermont's Public Utility Commission, claiming -- among many other things -- that its First Amendment rights have been violated. But as Susan Crawford argues at Backchannel, there are far too many holes in that argument. Crawford writes that 'Comcast, which Wall Street knows is essentially an unregulated public utility for high-speed internet access in the areas it covers, has unlimited resources to fight off this public-spirited regulator...[And] although there are many efforts in Vermont to provide fiber (including ECFiber), they're still small: Comcast isn't feeling any pressure to upgrade its lines to fiber. And, as [Craig] Moffett has reported, Comcast from now on will be growing through price hikes, not through building new lines. It's done with building new lines. The whole thing is dispiriting.'

27 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 4, Informative

    They pwned congress. Game over. Maybe a new name is in order. I nominate one of these: Comca$t, ComCaste, ComAssed, Comlast. Someone else can do better, I'm sure.

    1. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ALL infrastructure: roads, bridges, water, sewer, telephone, electric, Internet, etc. need to be publicly owned.

    2. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why stop there?
      How about all the above, plus the entire medical industry, including especially the pharmaceautical industry, be mandated as not-for-profit? Take greed out of the equation for everything that is classified as a necessity, and you come closer to the Star Trek vision of a post-scarcity, utopian society.
      Of course the main problem is getting the rest of the world to go along with this, and getting rich conservative types, who would much rather we return the world to monarchies and feudalism, to not go around waving their arms screaming "Socialism!!!" and spending their considerable monetary and political resources shutting it down and permanently discrediting anyone who supported it.

    3. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you're saying that greed is the only thing to live for?

      I postulate that avarice is bred into people. It was not bred, trained, conditioned, etc., into me, maybe to a fault considering our current "society" and how much greed you need to achieve success.

      The Star Trek society had other motivations. Money and greed were rarely discussed.

      I'm motivated by technology (I'm a design engineer) and the awesome things it can do to improve life, society, etc. I think most great designers and inventors were motivated by the thing, and making it happen. Many of them were poor, and never really received much money for their work, but usually some greedy businessman found a way to get rich off of their ideas and work.

      How about music and art: musicians and artists are motivated by what they create. I personally know many. They don't think about money- they just have to create the thing they create. A lot of great art never gets recognized, or maybe long after its creation and the artist/musician is dead. Most artists and musicians are very poor, unless they 1) are favored by the wealthy industry, 2) got very lucky, such as a Justin Bieber, and / or 3) make money some other way.

    4. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Try, for a minute, to think beyond our current reality, please? The 'way things are and always have been' doesn't need to define us unless we let it.

    5. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Horseshit. What about the technologies discovered by NASA the last 65 years? You're another typical capitalistic scumbag.

    6. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by dpilot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is a range in between, trust-fund baby and, "I only do things to get money." I'd like to think that most of us don't live at the extremes of that distribution.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    7. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by currently_awake · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The American power grid and telephone network were both built with public money. The LACK of a profit motive allowed them to succeed. The biggest lie told in America: "You NEED big corporations."

    8. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by plague911 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Almost none of the fundamental technology we are using right now is based off developments due to the profit motive. This is a myth the rural population tells its children.

      Your statement is about as accurate references to the tooth fairy or santa clause

      The internet? Defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Computing? Defense. https://www.computerhope.com/i...

      Electricity? Pure intellectual curiosity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....

      Home electricity distribution? Half profit motive, half ego battle.

      https://www.livescience.com/46...

      Roughly 1/8ths of the underlying motivations came from profit motive.

    9. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      See, you just failed completely at even imagining a world where things are not like that. Imagine a post-scarcity world, where the things that are necessary for life are produced by not-for-profit companies. I'm not talking about any bad-at-basic-math-UBI nonsense, either, I'm talking about a world where money and power are not the prime motivating factors in everybodys lives. Things and services necessary for life to continue are either inexpensive or free. You'd still work if you felt you wanted to or needed to, but you'd have the basics. Luxuries would be another matter, but since you wouldn't have everyone desperately trying to separate you from your paycheck for every little thing you needed just to survive and have a roof over your head, you'd have more to spend on those things.

      I'm not going to sit here and say that I've got the whole thing figured out, or that it would even work for 7 billion people. But just continuing to recite a litany of "How things are right now are how they've always been and they'll always be this way" only leads you in a circle. Imaginging how things could be different is what drives change. Enough people get the same ideas and then you have a movement. Get enough people involved in a movement, and you could start chaning hearts and minds -- which is what actually makes things change. It's not something that happens overnight, or in a year, or even in a decade. But apathetically accepting "The Way Things Are" keeps you in the same rut, decade after decade.

    10. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by wyHunter · · Score: 2

      Are you working for $15 per hour? You're not? Then greed is your only motivator, yes?

    11. Re:Pwn Congress and you to can rip off America by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      Friend, I'm tired of people not reading (and comprehending!) what I write -- and then making comments based on their incomplete or incorrect understanding.

      Nowhere did I say 'a world where EVERYTHING IS FREE'. I'm talking about a world where the BASICS -- food, water, shelter, clothing, access to energy sources, communication, healthcare, and medicines -- are inexpensive (**OR** free, if technologies progressed enough to allow for that!) instead of EVERYTHING in those categories having their prices jacked up all the way to the Moon, just because some jackass(es) can get away with it, so they can line their pockets.

      Are we there yet? NO, WE ARE NOT -- but thinking about and talking about an idea is what gets peoples imaginations going -- and you get enough people doing THAT, and maybe someone invents ways that it can be made reality! Do you get it now? Plodding along on the same treadmill you've always been on and never thinking about how something could be different is what perpetuates bad situations.

      Consider this, while you're at it: Many of the really great, transformative inventions and changes that have occurred throughout human history started with ONE MAN with an idea that everyone else said was 'crazy' and 'impossible''; we invented flying machines when everyone said that was impossible; we went to the MOON, repeatedly, and at some point everyone said that was crazy and impossible; we found cures for devastating diseases that everyone thought would never be cured; everyone said having a video telephone in your pocket was just silly stuff from comic books, but we're carrying them around with us right now. Saying we'll never have a 'post scarcity world' or a world where capitalism doesn't rule everything is ridiculous, but never believing anything can be different is what keeps things in a state of status quo.

  2. The biggest issue in Vermont by Vermonter · · Score: 4, Informative

    Is that ECFiber is only building infrastructure to service people who can't get Comcast already. So if you are like me and have Comcast available, then you don't get fiber access, even though fiber backbones are running through Comcast territory all over the state

  3. A Guide to Comcast Business Success by dicobalt · · Score: 2

    1) Provide the minimum possible infrastructure and quality of service to save money 2) Beg the government for free money leading to more money 3) Use saved money to buy out competition 4) Use saved money to buy out content providers to save more money on licensing 5) Use saved money to buy out more competition and content 6) Agree with other providers not to compete with them 7) Use saved money to buy out more competition 8) Use saved money to buy out nearly all competition 9) Conglaturations, YOU ARE WINNER!

  4. Worst slashdot summary ever by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is one of the worst Slashdot summaries I've ever seen. It provides almost no information as to what the case is about while slamming the company and complimenting the regulators. What the heck is his about and why is it relevant tech news? What the heck does the first amendment have to do with it?

    which Wall Street knows is essentially an unregulated public utility

    This statement is simply false, it is a regulated public utility.

    1. Re:Worst slashdot summary ever by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      This statement is simply false, it is a regulated public utility.

      clearly you did not bother to RTFM

      The entire story is about Comcast trying to fight a requirement put upon it by the public regulation during a franchise (regulatory) renewal, which it would not have to do were it already unregulated. Who didn't RTFM?

  5. Re: Wrong headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have Comcast with fiber to the house. I donâ(TM)t live in a big city. Itâ(TM)s just that we also have the choice of AT&T with fiber here. In other words competition works and the market is better than fucking stupid government regulation.

  6. Vermont is an expensive place to service. by rickb928 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mostly rural, so the lines are long, and low density so subscribers per mile are pretty low outside of the metro areas of Burlington/Montpelier.

    The business 'climate' is somewhat less than friendly, though Comcast can make any business climate hostile. Anywhere.

    The topology is downright hostile to telecom, with north-south ridges through out the state, making long-haul cabling a serious challenge, and expensive when traversing those ridges. This is not a new problem.

    Comcast has plenty of excuses to gouge their Vermont customers. And Vermont will probably just try to legislate the costs out of the equation. Good luck with that.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    1. Re:Vermont is an expensive place to service. by belg4mit · · Score: 2

      What bearing does any of this actually have on them complying with requirements they knowingly agreed to? Particularly since they are allowed to comply in whatever cost-effective manner they see fit? They're not bitching about technical challenges, they're throwing up a red herring about free speech.

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    2. Re:Vermont is an expensive place to service. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Vermont has long been connected with long-haul fiber through Boston, New York, and Quebec. There is actually plenty of bandwidth, the stable (Few Natural Disasters) environment there also makes it an up and coming place for datacenter construction.

      Comcast has long played games, it is surprising it has taken this long for the lawsuits to start flying

    3. Re:Vermont is an expensive place to service. by lactose99 · · Score: 2

      Comcast bought this Vermont customer base with an OBLIGATION to expand service to those customers. How they do so is up to them, but they can't just back-out and claim freeze-peach on the whole situation.

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
  7. Worked for me by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Got a competing service where I live, and I was able to cut my bill in half and raise my average throughput from 12Mb to 525Mb. When I told Comcast I was cancelling, they didn't even try to dissuade me.

    --
    Just junk food for thought...
  8. Re:Wow by suutar · · Score: 4, Informative

    not really. Short form:
    comcast's agreement with vermont's utilities commission is up for renewal, and the utilities commission wants them to continue working on the buildout obligations they picked up when they acquired a local cable company. Comcast doesn't wanna.

  9. Re:Wow by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Now, having read TFA, it seems even more egregious than that - Comcast doesn't want to fulfill obligations it already agreed to fulfill as a condition of being allowed to acquire the local cable company.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  10. Paper surcharges by tepples · · Score: 2

    The internet is not an essential item, nor is it a right.

    Internet access becomes essential once enough government agencies add a surcharge for filing forms as paper rather than electronically or even eliminate the paper option altogether. This has already started happening, such as with copyright registration at the U.S. Copyright Office.

  11. Re:ISPs are NOT public utilities. by plague911 · · Score: 2

    Says you?

    States define by law what is considered a public utility, it is entirely their prerogative to define it however they like. Additionally it is easily arguable that access to the internet is more essential than access to a phone system which has long been defined as a public utility.

  12. Re:Greed in itself ain't the issue .... by Twanfox · · Score: 2

    Ayn Rand, misguided as she was, did not simply posit that 'greed is good' but it was that self-interest or selfishness was the highest and only moral behavior. That could mean a lot of things to different people. It could mean being greedy as it results in your self-aggrandizement. It could mean being altruistic if that is what you want to do. Regardless of what you do, you do it because YOU want to and not because you were told to do it by someone else.

    Sadly, she also seemed to believe that people will perform at their best and that the brightest and best always won out. Even her protagonists would happily work for someone better than they if such a person existed. Rent-seeking or other greedy behaviors like patent-trolling are not likely very Rand-ian because they are not creators of anything and certainly are not doing their best at their job. They don't make (and get paid handsomely for it), they just take, as her antagonists do.

    As to the notion that somehow, if the government had never gotten involved, we would be in a better place today, I think you may find yourself misguided as well. It seems quite the culture of the USA that we always want the most return for the least effort. That idea has given us such fun ideas as external cost to business. To maximize profits, I skip the cost of cleanup of my manufacturing process and instead dump waste back into the field. Is it toxic? Who cares, and when someone comes to tell me I need to clean it up, I'll cry bankrupt and move on with my money.

    I have no high faith that, even if the government withdrew regulation in the best way possible (or even that hypothetical of never got involved in the first place) that we'd be any further ahead of where we are now. Comcast, in this case, doesn't want to provide the best service possible to all people possible. They're not being told they can't. Comcast is saying they don't want to be told what they have to do, even though they were only being told 'Wherever you see fit, run new lines.'