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Face ID Is Coming To the iPad Pro Next Year, Says Report (macrumors.com)

According to MacRumors, KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said iPad Pro models set to be released in 2018 will come equipped with a TrueDepth Camera and will support Face ID. Apple is believed to be adding TrueDepth cameras to the iPad Pro to introduce a user experience that's consistent with the iPhone X and boost competitiveness. From the report: According to Kuo, TrueDepth Cameras will be limited to the iPad Pro, which is Apple's main flagship tablet device. Kuo also predicts 2018 iPhone models will adopt the new camera technology coming in the iPhone X, as he has mentioned in a previous note: "We predict iOS devices to be equipped with TrueDepth Camera in 2018F will include iPhone X and 2018 new iPhone and iPad models. Because of this, we believe more developers will pay attention to TrueDepth Camera/ facial recognition related applications. We expect Apple's (U.S.) major promotion of facial recognition related applications will encourage the Android camp to also dedicate more resources to developing hardware and facial recognition applications."

73 comments

  1. Good by bmimatt · · Score: 0, Redundant

    So that's one gadget I won't be getting. More money in my pocket.

    1. Re:Good by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      That's nice you told us that.... Acutally FaceID would work with an iPad. You don't leave it in your pocket and you're typically looking at it. WIndows 10 recognition works reasonably well given that, again, you're typically facing the device when you start it up.

      But on a phone, not so much. I really like the fingerprint scanner on my iPhone and iPad - not perfect - doesn't work in the cold and wet but it really isn't all that hard to punch six numbers on a keypad. Such first world problems.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Good by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      doesn't work in the cold and wet but it really isn't all that hard to punch six numbers on a keypad
      Depends on the lightening conditions.

      I have "auto adjust brightness" of, as it always adjusts the iPad to be to bright.

      But that again means when I forget to turn it up at night, and I first use it at the bus station around 10:00 or later, in bright sun it is hard to enter the passphrase.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:Good by bmimatt · · Score: 1

      I like the fingerprint scanner too, even though I think it doesn't help recover a meaningful percentage of stolen devices. Call me cynical, but I think it only helps Apple sell more units. I liked the earlier versions of Apple products a lot more than those I/we use now. The walled garden has some poisonous flowers in it and you can't simply walk by. That's mainly because of work requirements for slack.skype.hangouts.whatever connectivity 24/7. Anyway, back to the culprit - what I was trying to say is: I refuse to actively participate in the quest to ugly tech distopia, where you need to let a machine scan your face to use the gadget you spent your money on "buying". Apple is beginning to feel more and more like MSFT of the late 90's and 2000's. Cheers!

    4. Re:Good by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      So you just hate stuff?
      I am not planning on getting an iPad just because it isn’t useful for me. But why all the hate? Were you the engineer for the surface or something?

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. NSA by labnet · · Score: 0, Troll

    The NSA must be super excited. Even George Orwell would be impressed with the progress we have made for a future global government to both identify who and where we are at all times.

    --
    46137
    1. Re:NSA by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      They can match it back up with
      "UK Spy Agency Collected Webcam Images From Yahoo Users With The Help Of NSA, Report Says" Feb 27, 2014
      https://techcrunch.com/2014/02...
      Collect it all just keeps on giving.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re: NSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Itâ(TM)s stored locally like the fingerprint data. Why canâ(TM)t tech people here at least know the basics of what theyâ(TM)re talking about. Android face recognition is what youâ(TM)re really worried about not apple.

    3. Re: NSA by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Especially Android face recognition is based on optical cameras and not IR cameras.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  3. Re:I can't wait.... by Kristoph · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Future ( 2018 ) versions of Apple devices will have the TrueDepth camera on the back for use with AR. You can disable the actual Face ID feature and still gain the benefits of TrueDepth.

  4. Not gonna happen for me by Snotnose · · Score: 1

    I've had my laptop for 3-4 years now. It's got a fingerprint scanner. Does it have my fingerprint? Awww, hell no.

    I can change a password. It's much harder, and more painful, to change my fingerprint.

    Don't even get me started on how much harder, expensive, and painful it is to change my face. Trust me, I had a friend stay with me for a week after a facelift. Her face was a bruised mess that cost her 5 figures, and it took a good 6 months until she felt comfortable showing her face to people that didn't know she had a facelift.

    1. Re:Not gonna happen for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. Your fingerprint is on file. So is your password. Is your old laptop secure? No it is not.

      Your face. Known. Your friend's new face - please. You think doctors don't report you? They are licensed for a reason.

      You're living in a fantasy land. You post here to an account using a compromised password, on a computer we already track.

  5. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, but that won't get you sweet karma.

  6. What a prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How bold do you have to be to believe that the flagship unit of a physically larger version of a product you just updated will get the most marketed new feature when it is next updated?

    There is risk and then there is risk, and this my friends is risk.

  7. Yes, I currently have an older iPhone, and... by hyades1 · · Score: 0

    ...no, I will not be buying any Apple product with Face ID.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  8. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    >TrueDepth camera on the back for use

    Can you can point it strangers and use Face ID to identify them? I assume it'll only be a matter of time till Face ID "prints" are uploaded to centralized databases to use Face ID for authenticating at places where it won't be necessary to own an iPhoneX.

  9. Watch you react to advertising by michaelcole · · Score: 1

    Rapid automated emotional manipulation.

    1. Re:Watch you react to advertising by DaveM753 · · Score: 2

      Yup. The greatest thing about Android, iOS and Windows 10 is all the terrific software that nobody asked for and nobody can uninstall.

      You pay for it; Google/Apple/Microsoft benefits from it. A terrific arrangement.

    2. Re:Watch you react to advertising by nnull · · Score: 1

      The worst is that lineage OS or any version of AOSP is having more extreme difficulty on working on the majority of phones now. Google is doing everything to force you to watch ads. There's already crap propping up on peoples sleep/idle screen and claims that it's just third party software. And the talk of Google wanting to close off Android with the next releases like Apple is already putting me off. They very fact I can't have youtube playing with the screen off without rooting is already telling me a lot.

      I'm hoping Sailfish OS takes off on more devices, as it seems the only nations interested in privacy and more control over their devices are the very nations we're calling undemocratic and authoritarian.

    3. Re:Watch you react to advertising by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      It's so nice that there's a none-of-the-above choice that many people on Slashdot have made, then, isn't it?

  10. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TrueDepth works via FLIR, that's not suitable for a rear facing camera. iOS already supports using the stereoscopic cameras to infer depth in the rear facing cameras.

  11. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your assumption seems to be faulty. Apple has a history of trying to store as little of your data as they possibly can, since they're in the market of selling you a bit of hardware, rather than in the market of selling you.

    They announced during the Keynote that the hash that they derive of your face print is stored inside the secure enclave of your device, and is never uploaded to anyone at all.

  12. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Agreed.

  13. I WAITING FOR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ANAL ID. Anus recognition technology is going to change the world.

  14. changing features? by sheramil · · Score: 1

    How does it deal with five o'clock shadows, or faces that need to be shaved more often than others? Change your beard style? Makeup? You point your apple device at someone else and they think you're creep-shooting and they punch you in the face? Does the software compensate for swollen lips and black eyes?

    1. Re:changing features? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      How does it deal with five o'clock shadows, or faces that need to be shaved more often than others? Change your beard style? Makeup?

      It is designed to tolerate these changes.

      Worst case scenario: It doesn't recognize you, and you enter your passcode instead.

    2. Re:changing features? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re:Change your beard style?
      Given how much data is collected from any face (nose, eyes, mouth, lips, jaw measurements) enough unique data should exist from other face measurements that did not change with a beard.
      The problem, of normal face changes was fix years ago.
      The real money was in top, down, side, looking up CCTV collection. Working with much less face on direct, 2d like face data. That was a real 3d challenge.
      If an average person is looking at the device, a lot of measurements should be able to ID most users.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:changing features? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Have you seen these AI augmented camera arrays? They are about the most frightening thing I have ever seen.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    4. Re:changing features? by lucm · · Score: 1

      How does it deal with five o'clock shadows, or faces that need to be shaved more often than others? Change your beard style? Makeup? You point your apple device at someone else and they think you're creep-shooting and they punch you in the face? Does the software compensate for swollen lips and black eyes?

      Why are we having again discussions that we had 10 years ago when this technology became mainstream outside of the Apple ecosystem? Are you guys that disconnected from the evolution of technology or is it just some virulent form of cognitive dissonnance? What's next, discussing the witchery of USB ports or OLED screens?

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    5. Re:changing features? by lucm · · Score: 1

      Have you seen these AI augmented camera arrays? They are about the most frightening thing I have ever seen.

      Just a few days ago I saw a demo of a script that correctly identified in a video a person that was standing in the shadows and that I couldn't myself identify. And it only took a few seconds even if the person wasn't in the video before the 3rd minute. And it all ran on local machines, no cloud involved. As far as I know, this was impossible two years ago - it would even have been giggles material if it had happened in an episode of CSI.

      I can't even imagine what will be possible in 5 years. Or what is already possible in the secrets datacenters of the NSA. I really hope someone somewhere is building a gigantic EMP because we could end up needing it sooner than later.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    6. Re:changing features? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Just a few days ago I saw a demo of a script that correctly identified in a video a person that was standing in the shadows and that I couldn't myself identify.

      These things were identifying the clothes people were wearing and the mood they were in, and there were hundreds of people in the field of view. Every car license plate, every persons phone number, name and address and if they have a criminal record. I think they being rolled out as 'traffic control devices'

      Orwell was an optimist.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    7. Re:changing features? by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      I mean this is /. so I think you already know the answer to your question. The vast majority of /. readers are technologically stuck in the 80's and 90's.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    8. Re:changing features? by michaelcole · · Score: 1

      It shows you different ads, so you can have the things needed for your new "lifestyle"

  15. Re:I can't wait.... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

    I will be buying no Apple products that have Face ID.

    Or, since it is an optional feature, you could just not set it up on your device.

  16. Smart Devices Not Smart Enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, let's add a face scanner, so we can hide its evil intentions behind a big fucking Emoji machine. If you want to desensitized people from being spied on, you have to make it fun for everybody!

  17. Re:I can't wait.... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    ... to not buy it. I will be buying no Apple products that have Face ID.

    So you will be buying the Androids with cheap Face ID knockoffs then?

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  18. Re:I can't wait.... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    ... to see how big, deep and wide the true depth notch is :)

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  19. Re: I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those two shitty cameras serve two different purposes, nothing to do with deducing depth.

  20. Re: I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To gurn into my iPad's camera.

  21. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you will be buying the Androids with cheap Face ID knockoffs then?

    Pfft, Apple's version sucks, it doesn't even upload your face to the NSA. Overpriced trash.

  22. When...? by dohzer · · Score: 0

    And when will it be working on the iPhone?

    1. Re:When...? by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      And when will it be working on the iPhone?

      Well considering it's only available on the iPhone X and that hasn't even been released yet....

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  23. BladeRunner 2049 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the head cop had that system in her office. Didn't seem to work very well. Now we will have to worry about androids (with a little a) killing us and putting our head in front of the camera.

  24. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's an iPad?

  25. How is this better than a finger scanner? by pablo_max · · Score: 1

    Seriously, I cannot think of too many circumstances where I would like to hold a giant screen in front of my face for a bit before I can use it.
    Even a phone for that matter.
    Driving, taking the phone out of the holder to hold it in front of your face whilst driving since the screen locked in the meantime? Nope, seems like a bad idea. Seems like pressing your finger to that little button facing you and within easy reach is a bit better.

    Sure, I get it. Hipsters will have an amazing excuse to keep their iPhones and iPad Pros at eye level so everyone around can see that they are using an iSomething, but for "normals" it seems pretty freaking retarded.
    It seems like a gimmick to me and not a very useful one. It would be fine if the finger print scanner was still there, but it's not.
    So, I guess I will leave this one to the hipsters.

  26. Facerecognitionbook by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    I just want to thank Facebook for it's facial recognition technology that will tag me in enough social situations to make me feel uncomfortable having my photo taken.

    Fuck it, if they are going to push all this gender identification and unconscious bias training down my throat then as a 200 pound western man it is my right to identify as a cross dressing islamic woman with a hijab.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  27. Another MacRumors repost from Beauhd by lucm · · Score: 0

    Between creimer and his Amazon affiliates links and Beauhd's endless iDiarrhea, Slashdot is quickly becoming nothing more than an organic links farm for pathetic SEO leeches.

    The sad part is that while those morons pollute the site with their junk, they're not even making good money with it, they just shit all over the place for pennies.

    Fight back, people. Don't let low-quality sellouts drive Slashdot futher into the ground.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  28. FUD by cmseagle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What are you talking about? As written, this comment is does nothing but spread (unfounded, IMO) FUD. Apple has made a big deal about the facial scans never leaving the protection of the secure enclave. Is your position that Apple is colluding with the NSA, lying about the technical capabilities of their product? That there will be widely-distributed NSA malware that sneaks it's way onto iPhones and compromises the secure enclave and FaceID hardware? Arguably that ship has already sailed now that every smartphone user is carrying a GPS in their pocket whenever they leave the house.

    Discussing the security implications of new tech is a worthwhile and constructive. The Economist did a fantastic cover story on the implications of widespread, accurate facial recognition tech a few months ago, if you need some talking points. Screaming "ORWELL! 1984! HUXLEY! POLICE STATE!" every time facial recognition comes up is nothing more than a waste of comment section space.

    1. Re:FUD by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      That there will be widely-distributed NSA malware that sneaks it's way onto iPhones and compromises the secure enclave and FaceID hardware?

      As I understand it, the distance data from the camera isn't routed directly to the secure enclave, it's available for AR applications. This means that it doesn't really matter to a malware author if they can't get into the secure enclave: they can just lift the data directly from the camera the next time that you look at the screen.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has made a big deal about the facial scans never leaving the protection of the secure enclave. Is your position that Apple is colluding with the NSA, lying about the technical capabilities of their product?

      Until they release the full source code of iOS, including all firmware, as well as provide a method to verify that the code running on the device matches that source code: yes, that is my position.

      Both Apple and the NSA have been shown to be lying many times in the past. Apple has been caught tracking their users, storing a GPS log of where they are, and then sending it back to Apple. There's no reason to trust them on this.

    3. Re:FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Millenials with high user IDs never lived in a world where there was some sort of privacy.

      Either that or parent post is made by someone who works for the government/ Apple, spreading the FUD that they are the most honest pieces of shit they are.

    4. Re:FUD by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Only data is stored in the secure enclave from what I understand. The secure enclave isn't an environment as it is storage area. Your scenario relies on the connection between the camera and OS being open to attack and not secured. We'll need more details but the current fingerprint scanner is secured from tampering from what I know.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    5. Re:FUD by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Only data is stored in the secure enclave from what I understand. The secure enclave isn't an environment as it is storage area

      It's a bit more complicated than that. The secure enclave offers services to the OS, for example you can give it a digital signature and ask if that signature was signed with a trusted key, or you can give it some data and ask it to decrypt or encrypt it with one of the stored keys. It needs to do these things so that the storage can be write-only: if you are able to pull the keys out of the secure element then you may as well do the whole thing in software. A number of Android phones do something similar using TrustZone (though recent TrustZone attacks give me less confidence in that than I'd have had a year ago), but the Apple implementation is a separate ARM core running its own OS and communicating with the main OS.

      Your scenario relies on the connection between the camera and OS being open to attack and not secured.

      Well, one of two attacks: the OS is fully compromised (in which case you can't get into the secure element, but you can see anything that the OS can see) or the OS exposes more information to userland than you might want it to.

      We'll need more details but the current fingerprint scanner is secured from tampering from what I know.

      The difference with the fingerprint scanner is that the only useful thing that you can do with the fingerprint scanner is scan fingerprints, so the OS can expose a simple interface that is simply 'is this a valid fingerprint'. This is actually a slightly too narrow interface for a lot of uses. For example, I might want several people to be able to unlock my iPad with their fingerprints, but no one other than me to be able to unlock my Internet banking app, and iOS currently doesn't provide this functionality, just a 'does this finger belong to an authorised person' query. In contrast, the distance-sensing camera is probably very useful for augmented reality things, where you actually do need to expose the depth information to userspace. This makes it much harder to prevent a malicious app from simply doing a face scan and uploading it to the NSA / FSB / Google / Flat Earth Society.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:FUD by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      This makes it much harder to prevent a malicious app from simply doing a face scan and uploading it to the NSA / FSB / Google / Flat Earth Society.

      But what would be the harm? Yes someone might have the facial data from an iPhone. It would only work on an iPhone and you'd have to find a way to feed the iPhone the data and bypass the camera. Again it would rely on compromising an iPhone already.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    7. Re:FUD by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The original poster was worried about the NSA getting face scans of everyone. Once distance sensing cameras become cheap, having a big database of faces including depth information would let you do very accurate face recognition at a massive scale, tracking people everywhere you can put a CCTV camera, with far fewer errors than if you relied on the image data alone, which sounds a bit dystopian.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:FUD by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Yeah but if they compromised an iPhone owner's facial data, they could only really use it on that owner's iPhone and it would take some work. Could the facial data be used for other purposes by the NSA? Sure. But they don't need iPhones to do that already.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  29. Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't care about FaceID, I do care for the headphone jack.

  30. Re:I can't wait.... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Any reason why?
    This isn’t a cloud based thing, your face is local and encrypted on the device?
    Do you like your devices insecure by default?

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  31. 2018F? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should probably know this, but what does the "F" represent in 2018F?

  32. Re:I can't wait.... by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    It's currently optional.

    Should I assume you are unfamiliar with the story about the camel getting its nose into the tent?

    Should I also assume you have faith that even if it remained optional, it would never be activated as part of an update?

    Thanks for letting me start my day wearing an "Isn't That Cute" smile.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  33. No way to disable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A stranger at a public location snapping photos around him/her, can easily you in the background.

    You didn't consent of having your picture taken.
    You didn't consent of the person with the phone of enabling face ID.
    You have no control over whether that person has enabled GPS or not.

    If you have a cell phone in non-airplane mode, your wireless location data is being broadcasted to your carrier or your apps. This is true for the person taking the picture or your own phone.

    So your precise location, time and picture identification are all identified. This is no accident. These types of projects are clearly funded by the government.

    If the camera is always on, it's even more dangerous.
    As for microphones? They're already always on.

    What a joke this world has become. There's no chance that the decision makers are going to go to jail, because it's something decided by these powerful fucktards.

  34. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's currently optional.

    Should I assume you are unfamiliar with the story about the camel getting its nose into the tent?

    Should I also assume you have faith that even if it remained optional, it would never be activated as part of an update?

    Thanks for letting me start my day wearing an "Isn't That Cute" smile.

    So then don't do anything ever.

  35. Re:I can't wait.... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Do you like your devices insecure by default?

    We don't know how secure/insecure Face ID is yet, so this seems a bit off-target.

  36. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But you wont get the option of not to pay for it.

  37. Re:I can't wait.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this the newest apple propaganda? That any device without apples newest gimmick is now insecure?

  38. Re:I can't wait.... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    It's currently optional.

    Should I assume you are unfamiliar with the story about the camel getting its nose into the tent?

    Should I also assume you have faith that even if it remained optional, it would never be activated as part of an update?

    Thanks for letting me start my day wearing an "Isn't That Cute" smile.

    Exactly! I mean they did it with Touch ID. It started out optional and now it's.... wait... still optional.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  39. Re:I can't wait.... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Just as off target refusing to buy the product with Face ID.

    Being that Apple had stated that they had tested it with professional masks and photos, and supposedly has a lower mach hit. Also Apple has had a good history with being secure. Because with the number of iDevices out there, a major hack would be a really big deal.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  40. Re:I can't wait.... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Just as off target refusing to buy the product with Face ID.

    Agreed. As long as it can be disabled, I see no reason to avoid something just because Face ID is included.

    Being that Apple had stated

    What I mean is that the only information we have as to how secure it is comes from Apple. Which means that we have no actual information about how secure it is. All we have are manufacturer's claims.

  41. Re:I can't wait.... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    But you wont get the option of not to pay for it.

    It uses a preexisting camera, and software with a marginal cost of $0. So it costs nothing.

  42. Re:I can't wait.... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    It's currently optional.

    Question: What possible motivation would Apple have in making FaceID mandatory?
    Answer: Absolutely none.

    Question: What possible motivation would dairy famers have in feeding nuclear waste to their cows?
    Answer: Absolutely none, but you should boycott milk just in case.