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EPA Announces Repeal of Major Obama-Era Carbon Emissions Rule (nytimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times (Warning: source may be paywalled; alternative source: The Trump administration announced Monday that it would take formal steps to repeal President Barack Obama's signature policy to curb greenhouse gas emissions from power plants, setting up a bitter fight over the future of America's efforts to tackle global warming. At an event in eastern Kentucky, Scott Pruitt, the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, said that his predecessors had departed from regulatory norms in crafting the Clean Power Plan, which was finalized in 2015 and would have pushed states to move away from coal in favor of sources of electricity that produce fewer carbon emissions. The repeal proposal, which will be filed in the Federal Register on Tuesday, fulfills a promise President Trump made to eradicate his predecessor's environmental legacy. Eliminating the Clean Power Plan makes it less likely the United States can fulfill its promise as part of the Paris climate agreement to ratchet down emissions that are warming the planet and contributing to heat waves and sea-level rise. Mr. Trump has vowed to abandon that international accord.

In announcing the repeal, Mr. Pruitt made many of the same arguments that he had made for years to Congress and in lawsuits: that the Obama administration exceeded its legal authority in an effort to limit greenhouse gas emissions from power plants. (Last year, the Supreme Court blocked the rule from taking effect while courts assessed those lawsuits.) A leaked draft of the repeal proposal asserts that the country would save $33 billion by not complying with the regulation and rejects the health benefits the Obama administration had calculated from the original rule.

24 of 316 comments (clear)

  1. Fuck Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But more importantly:

    Fuck you.

    Trump is the symptom. You are the problem.

    We don't think we're better. We know it.

    1. Re: Fuck Trump by PoopJuggler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump is a real hero. Nothing says "integrity" like raping the planet to line the pockets of coal interests.

    2. Re: Fuck Trump by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 4, Funny

      It isn't really 'waking up' when you open your eyes to find yourself immersed in a fantasy world of 4chan memes.

  2. What's next? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's next? Penalize solar and wind and other renewables? Tax people who already have solar panels on their houses and businesses? All so some ass-backwards, mostly dead already coal industry can hang on for a while longer? When will this insanity end?

    1. Re:What's next? by budsetr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, next is tax breaks for coal company owners. Bonus points for each ten cases of black lung!!

    2. Re:What's next? by nobuddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So we can pull all the oil, coal, and gas subsidies as well, and see which ones win out on their own merits. Oil and gas do NOT want to have to compete on an even playing field. That's why they push so hard to end the subsidies for alternatives that they have enjoyed for decades.

    3. Re:What's next? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Coal companies **already** get plenty of tax breaks. As do oil companies. And pretty much every goddamn company in the country.

      It would be a very interesting, very Republican and very unlikely experiment to roll back ALL the tax breaks.

      Let the Invisible hand sort it out.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pollution is a subsidy. Payed for by everyone.

    5. Re:What's next? by Namarrgon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's an EIA report listing the amounts and types of direct subsidies and tax incentives in 2013 specific to the energy industry, for both renewables and fossil fuels, broken down by type.

      It does not include any incentives that are also available to other industries, nor does it go into any detail about past subsidies (obviously fossil fuels have been receiving these subsidies a lot longer than renewables).

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    6. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It would be a very interesting, very Republican and very unlikely experiment to roll back ALL the tax breaks.

      There is a group of Republicans who want this, and are really in favor of fighting for it. There is another group of Republicans who want the tax breaks, and are happy to vote in more (and more spending too!)

      Then there is a group of rational people who realize that if they roll back all tax breaks, they will get voted out of office by people who lost their mortgage interest deduction.

      There's a large chunk of Americans who benefit from tax deductions.

      The invisible hand of the market is going to optimize based on economic considerations, and is usually going to take a shorter term look at things.

      Government can, should, and must put its thumb on the scale to coerce optimal or near optimal longer term conditions while preserving individual rights. One of the things government must watch the long term health of is the environment.

      Now I'm all for getting rid of tax breaks that are not justified. If you can't say model the whole thing and explain how this or that tax breaks benefit exceeds its cost, then the break should and must go, possibly with a corresponding decrease in overall rates.

      Natural gas is what half the carbon of coal? To an extent, coal isn't going to see a miraculous return as long as that is the case, regardless of what Scott does. That doesn't make his actions correct in any way shape or form, just less damaging than they might otherwise be. That is not the invisible hand of the market safeguarding the environment. That is just pure dumb luck.

      I am still less than certain if solar and such is at the point where putting it on everyone's houses with batteries is the way to go, but I do think it is something to aspire for, particularly if we can recycle it all. Nuclear is still on my bucket list for base power, but the problem is, you need to be sure that you always have a regulatory and inspection regime that is top notch. Can you imagine the kind of inept regulators a Trump might put in power? They could easily allow another Tepco mess.

      Obama did his job by appointing competent people who did their jobs to protect and guarantee the future of our country.

      Trump is doing the job he wants done, by saying fuck everything, how can we get some short term gains to make Trump look good and to hell with the long term of the country.

      I personally think it is more than that though. Trump is not playing N-dimensional chess. People bend themselves into pretzels to say that, but it seems more and more like the ravings and rantings of someone who needs to be in an adult day care center, and not in command of the nuclear codes. A rational and ethical man does not put someone who hates environmental protections in charge of protecting the environment or someone who can't remember the energy departments name in charge of the energy department.

  3. Re: When the New York Times is whining... by PoopJuggler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That lump is the cancer that they got from coal plants' particulate emissions

  4. Re:When the New York Times is whining... by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Yes, let's all debate the petty partisan differences of opinions while the World implodes.

    Clearly, my parents were wrong about comic books... we could've all learned something from the debate between scientists and politicians on the Planet Krypton.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  5. Make America a Dump Again! by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 5, Insightful
    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    1. Re: Make America a Dump Again! by hey! · · Score: 5, Informative

      I remember as a kid in the 60s going up to the mountains for vacation and suddenly finding a lot easier to breathe. Then coming back to the city -- visible at a distance by the chocolate brown smudge hovering above the horizon -- and having my eyes water.

      When you look at an old TV show or movie and the buildings a few hundred yards away look all hazy -- that's not the lens or the film stock. It actually friggin' looked like that. Back before the Clean Air Act we used to have "smog events" in which hundreds of people died, like the New York Smog of 1966, one of three such events that occurred in just over a decade in that city.

      Shit like that is why we have an EPA and a Clean Air act. It wasn't a bunch of tree-hugging hippies, it was average people reacting to the fact the country was being turned into a shit hole.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  6. Re:Obama executive insanity twisted the law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    What is the alternative when you have an openly hostile legislature? Obama did what he could. He should have pushed harder and louder for a bill but ultimately that wasn't going to happen since anti-science agendas have ruled the GOP for quite some time.

  7. Coal is dead by Snotnose · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Natural gas killed it. Cheaper, fewer emissions, fewer miners killed. Does't matter what the cheeto in charge wants or legislates, natgas has killed coal.

    I remember as a kid dad driving past oil fields burning off natural gas. I couldn't believe it was cheaper to burn it off that to sell it. Still can't, to be honest.

    1. Re:Coal is dead by evil_aaronm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ya know, pragmatically, we have only the one planet and I rather like breathing clean air. I also like drinking unpolluted water. I don't have any problem with "wackadoos" fighting to keep things clean and safe. I accept your right to prefer money over clean water and air, but you don't have a right to pollute my water and air in pursuit of money.

  8. Re:Obama executive insanity twisted the law by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The EPA didn't have the legal framework to regulate CO2 emissions,

    Bullshit

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  9. Re:The market will go where it's already headed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Free market will drive energy production towards its natural destination

    When will you drooling idiot Ayn Rand fanboi's get it through your thick heads that there has never been a free market, a free market is a construct which cannot exist and is incapable of solving certain kinds of problems, and that even Adam Smith said such things and that government regulation was necessary to keep it in check?

    Humans will lie, cheat, steal, collude, form cartels, bribe and pretty much everything else that they can think of to gain an advantage.

    There is no fucking such thing as a free market. Never has been, never will be. It sure as fuck drive anything to it's "natural destination". Sorry, that's wishful thinking and a belief in magic.

    The free market is a bullshit lie told to idiotic young Libertarians and other morons. Stop treating it like it's some magical beneficial thing, when it's made up of a bunch of greedy assholes screwing over everyone else ... that doesn't produce optimal results no matter what fairytale version of economics you believe in.

    Corporations retain all of the power, because they pay politicians to rig the game. Trump is pandering to his rich cronies, and you think that bullshit is a free market which can achieve optimal outcomes? Then you are really too fucking stupid for your own good.

  10. Re:When the New York Times is whining... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If everybody takes care of their own problems and nobody takes care of everybody's problems, then everybody dies. See: Tragedy of the commons.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  11. Re:Obama executive insanity twisted the law by jenningsthecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If a president doesn't have the backing of the rest of the country, well maybe that's good or bad on any particular issue, but it's reality. He can't legally just dictate policy on his own.

    I don't think Obama broke any laws. He simply did his best to get an important and necessary job done, in the face of opposition from the reality-challenged knuckle-draggers who think that shouting bullshit loud enough and long enough turns it into truth. In this case, that meant getting creative with the legislative framework. I'm sure he would like to have put his initiative on a more solid footing; but his opposition cared more about tearing him down than about exercising actual leadership, so he had little choice.

    (And maybe, just maybe, he might want to reconsider his own position in the process if he finds himself so out of touch with the general perception)

    Ummm, that would be a follower you just described. POTUS is supposed to be a leader; you know, the person who sees what others don't yet see, and makes decisions, (even unpopular ones), based on logic, evidence, and science, for the long-term good of all concerned.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  12. Devoid of ideas of his own by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Devoid of ideas of his own trump just wants to repeal everything that Obama did, whether it is good, bad or indifferent

  13. Re:When the New York Times is whining... by dywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    there are only 76,000 coal industry workers in the country.
    that's not just miners, but everyone in the industry: office workers, sales staff, equipment mechanics, etc.
    actual miners are only 50k.

    its a dying industry. destroying the environment for the sake of an industry smaller than the year round ski tourism industry is hardly sound economic policy. there is not and never was a war on coal. coal was killed by free market forces, not governmental ones.

    advancing coal industry objectives is a detriment to the economy and the public health.
    advancing green energy industry is both a much larger economic stimulus (employing more than 10x as many people), its also better for the public health and as a result less of a drain on future economy as fewer people will be sickened by the pollution from burning coal.

    there is no reason to favor the coal industry.
    not in economic terms, not in labor terms, and not in terms related to public health.

    the ONLY reasons to favor the coal industry is out of some misguided left/right partisan stupidity, or being one of their paid shills.
    both of which apply to Pruitt.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  14. Re:When the New York Times is whining... by InvalidsYnc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If what is being overturned is indeed an overreach, then it should be rolled back. With that being said, each state can and SHOULD do what they feel is right for their state, if that means that they continue down the path of the Obama restrictions, so be it, THAT is what they should be doing, making choices as a state, not being mandated in a way that doesn't fit within the legal boundaries of Federal jurisdiction. Aren't the states supposed to be more autonomous? Why aren't they making better choices so that a higher power doesn't have to step in and mandate?