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Real Moviegoers Don't Care About Rotten Tomatoes

In a recent essay published on the Hollywood Reporter, Martin Scorsese inveighs against two conjoined trends -- the widespread reporting of box-office results and the grading of movies by consumers on CinemaScore and by critics on Rotten Tomatoes -- and blames it for "a tone that is hostile to serious filmmakers." In particular, he contends that this hostile environment is worsening "as film criticism written by passionately engaged people with actual knowledge of film history has gradually faded from the scene." Richard Brody, a movie critic at the New Yorker, thinks Scorsese is missing the mark. He writes: I think that film criticism is, over all, better than ever, because, with its new Internet-centrism, it's more democratic than ever and many of the critics who write largely online are more film-curious than ever. Anyone who is active on so-called Film Twitter -- who sees links by critics, mainly younger critics, to his or her work -- can't help but be impressed by the knowledge, the curiosity, and the sensibility of many of them. Their tastes tend to be broader and more daring than those of many senior critics on more established publications. And, even if readers of the wider press aren't reading these more obscure critics, the critics whom general readers read are often reading those young critics (and if they're not, it shows). This is, of course, not universally so, any more than it ever was. The Internet is democratic in all directions -- it's also available to writers of lesser knowledge, duller taste, and dubious agendas, and it may be their work that's advertised most loudly -- but the younger generation of critics is present online and there for the finding. [...] What Scorsese doesn't exactly say, but what, I think, marks a generation gap in movie thinking that his essay reflects, is the appearance of an increasing divide between artistically ambitious films and Hollywood films -- the gap between the top box-office films and the award winners. For filmmakers ready to work on lower budgets, the gap is irrelevant. The filmmakers whose conceptions tend toward the spectacular are the ones whose styles may, literally, be cramped by shrinking budgets -- filmmakers such as Scorsese and Wes Anderson, whose work has both an original and elaborate sense of style and a grand historical reach.

10 of 173 comments (clear)

  1. Releasing Shitty Movies by Luthair · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is hostile to consumers.

    1. Re:Releasing Shitty Movies by Ranbot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...and charging really high ticket prices...

      is hostile to consumers.

      ^ There.

      And the irony is the high ticket prices are going to drive consumers to depend more heavily on online reviews before buying that expensive ticket. Hollywood is it's own worst enemy but they refuse to admit it and scapegoat everyone else.

      Personally, the high price of movie tickets has driven me to only go to the theater for movies with special-effects that benefit from the big screen/sound. Dramas like Moonlight and Manchester by the Sea may be fantastic, but those types of movies have little to no benefit to theater prices over a RedBox rental at home. Hollywood will probably say I'm another bad audience member who doesn't value real movie art, but the free market reality is not every movie is worth the $15+ theater experience, and it's their fault for fixing movie prices like they do.

  2. Good reviews by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A good review isn't one that says if a movie is good or shit. It's not necessarily one that explains why a particular movie is good or shit. A good review is one that gives me a fair chance to judge beforehand whether or not I am likely to enjoy the movie. I'm finding such reviews amongst the writings of more "serious" reviewers as well as punters on IMDB or Rotten Tomatoes. Overall I'd say the availability of amateur reviews has helped me.

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    1. Re:Good reviews by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think there's also a difference between "reviews" and "criticism". They're related, but distinct things.

      You use a "review" to decide where to direct your purchasing dollars. If I'm buying a new washing machine, I'll check the reviews of the ones that seem to meet my criteria. However by-in-large I don't need a review to know whether I'm going to see the latest Marvel Cinematic Universe blockbuster in the theaters; I just know.

      You use "criticism" to enhance your enjoyment and understanding of something. In the unlikely event that I see Thor:Ragnarok a critique afterward gives me a second bite of the apple as it were; it might even change my mind. Screen Junkies "Honest Trailers" on YouTube are an example of critique; they're intended for people who've already seen the movie.

      In a review you do need elements of criticism, but those elements have to be discreet. A review ought to tell you why you want to experience this thing without interfering with that experience. And while a reviewer's feelings are more important in a review than a critics feelings are in a critique, a little critical objectivity is still very useful in a reviewer. A good reviewer should be able to tell you why you want to see a movie that he himself hates.

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    2. Re:Good reviews by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One of the problems with general-purpose reviews is that they don't take into account the specific tastes of the viewers (or in games, the player). They're a pretty good indicator of general quality, though. For specific tastes, you could probably move the bar up and down another good 20% of a total rating.

      Fir instance, I generally enjoy science fiction, fantasy, or historical dramas. Anything with these characteristics will probably get an automatic 10% ratings bump. On the other hand, I really couldn't care less about most horror films, which get an automatic 10% penalty.

      I've also found that I often disagree with the tastes of professional reviewers as well. I sometimes get the impression that they see so many movies, they tend to automatically latch onto anything that feels new, fresh, unique, or surprising, even if it really isn't all that great of a movie otherwise. By contrast, I see so few movies that I'm perfectly content with classic tropes, so long as they're well executed and engaging.

      Knowing the taste of your audience gives you a better chance at finding shows they enjoy. I'm actually pretty good at finding movies and TV shows my parents might enjoy, simply because I have a reasonably good idea about their general tastes.. Personal recommendations for movies, shows, books, and games is one area that I think AI could do a *really* good job at if it were trained well enough.

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  3. And in other news ... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Zero fucks were given about critics

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    Hey Hollywood, stop making the same shit over again

    1. Re:And in other news ... by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ugh, Orville is so boring. Either lean into the comedy or go for full ST:TNG replacement. This middle ground that McFarlane is trying to tread just isn't working.

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    2. Re:And in other news ... by geekmux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey Hollywood, stop making the same shit over again

      If Bullshit Sequel #2 makes $50 million in profits, you better believe Hollywood is gonna make Bullshit Sequel #3.

      That continues until Bullshit Sequel #8 proves to not-so-profitable. If not, then they'll make Bullshit Sequel #9.

      Bottom line is STOP asking or blaming Hollywood. They are doing nothing more than responding to demand.

  4. Translation by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Martin Scorsese inveighs against two conjoined trends -- the widespread reporting of box-office results and the grading of movies by consumers on CinemaScore and by critics on Rotten Tomatoes -- and blames it for "a tone that is hostile to serious filmmakers." In particular, he contends that this hostile environment is worsening "as film criticism written by passionately engaged people with actual knowledge of film history has gradually faded from the scene.

    Translation: "Serious film makers shouldn't have to care about whether or not their film appeals to anyone or makes money and anyone who isn't a film history major shouldn't be allowed to criticize my work because they are unworthy."

    "Hostile to serious filmmakers"? What a joke. Just because you can't make money on a shit film anymore isn't our problem. Just because nobody wants to fund your risky art house film isn't our problem. Knowledge of film history is utterly irrelevant in determining whether or not a film is worth seeing. Popularity does not necessarily equal quality but it cannot be denied that there is a strong correlation. Rotten Tomatoes isn't the end-all-be-all of movie evaluation but it is useful information. If a movie gets a 13% on Rotten Tomatoes I'm probably going to skip seeing it in a theater. If a narcissistic director cannot handle that business reality then that isn't my problem.

  5. Re:Take it with a grain of salt by Rhacman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I pass on the trailers if only because frequently they reveal too much.

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