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Mozilla To Document Cross-Browser Web Dev Standards with Google, Microsoft, Samsung, and W3C (venturebeat.com)

Mozilla has announced deeper partnerships with Microsoft, Google, Samsung, and web standards body W3C to create cross-browser documentation on MDN Web Docs, a web development documentation portal created by Mozilla. From a report: MDN Web Docs first came to fruition in 2005, and it has since been known under various names, including the Mozilla Developer Network and Mozilla Developer Center. Today, MDN Web Docs serves as a community and library of sorts covering all things related to web technologies and standards, including JavaScript, HTML, CSS, open web app development, Firefox add-on development, and more. The web constitutes multiple players from across the technology spectrum and, of course, multiple browsers, including Microsoft's Edge, Google's Chrome, Mozilla's Firefox, and the Samsung Internet Browser. To avoid fragmentation and ensure end-users have a (fairly) consistent browsing experience, it helps if all the players involved adhere to a similar set of standards.

44 comments

  1. Fantastic by XanC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The MDN docs are some of the best around. It's surely one of Mozilla's most successful projects, and this will only make them more useful.

    1. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed - I probably use them for reference a couple dozen times a month here.

    2. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can't tell if you're being ironic or not.

      That says something about the state of the documentation and the people who use it.

      (Me, I'm from a BSD background. I'm used to *good* documentation, to the point that I think most linux documentation is well below the minimum required to be usable, which is already a sight better than anything redmond has ever produced. No, the W3C doesn't remotely qualify either.)

    3. Re:Fantastic by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 2

      Yep. Now if they could just consistently get higher Google rankings than w3schools.

    4. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really! tell me which part of linux documentation you found wanting. the amount of linux discussions outnumbers BSD but at least an order of magnitude. best illustrated by attempting to debug anything low level on BSD or for that matter a Mac osx.

    5. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Different AC here, but I'll give you an example of a problem I had with Linux documentation, but not with the FreeBSD documentation.

      I was using a Debian GNU/Linux 8 system. After a reboot it failed to boot properly. Something called systemd was broken in some way. Not being familiar with it, I checked The Debian Administrator's Handbook. And while it did have a section on systemd, this documentation was essentially useless to me. It didn't describe how to fix the problem I was experiencing with this Debian installation. It didn't even give any useful information that would have helped me debug the issue faster. The most useful help I found was in a bug report where somebody else described how they had worked around this particular problem!

      It's the complete opposite situation for FreeBSD. They keep stuff like the init system dead simple, and would never seriously consider using something like systemd, so that it's extraordinarily rare for it to break, which means that you never even have to go looking for the documentation in the first place. In the rare case that you do need to consult the documentation, it has excellent information, excellent examples, and helpful links to man pages and other useful information. The FreeBSD documentation is about enabling you, and it does help get tasks accomplished much faster and with far less confusion and far less effort than the Linux documentation.

    6. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      discussions != documentation

      If documentation already answers the question, there's not going to be any discussion.

      I miss "organised documentation I can rely on" rather than "read this stackoverflow thread" and hope said thread is somewhat coherent and not obsolete.

    7. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [FreeBSD] keep stuff like the init system dead simple, and would never seriously consider using something like systemd,

      This is no longer the case, and I'm deeply disappointed in them for that, and a few similar things they used to do well but no longer understand. Perhaps something to do with a newer, more linux-ish and even windows-ish* guard taking over. But yes, it used to be very well documented and a rock solid system to boot. No longer. Sic transit gloria mundi. Oh well.

      They're still somewhat better than linux, but that's not really a reasonable comparison, now is it? Practical, yes. Reasonable, no. Alright, better than a systemd-free linux. Even so. It's like we're having a race to the bottom, rather than that we're improving stuff.

      The GP did nicely provide an argument to the point I was trying to make, though. On the gripping hand, mac is supposed to be all-intuitive and so definitely share-and-enjoy "fun" to troubleshoot (e.g. booting single user and having to bring up netinfo by hand, and hey where's the documentation on this thing?), and apple did employ a bunch of FreeBSD core devs to work on darwin. Maybe that's how the rot crept in at first. EDOOFUS.

      * Top-posting core developers. Really now.

  2. Re:And don't forget! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    That's great! Good docs and funding terrorism. Hurray for Mozilla.

  3. Apple not participating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    C'mon Apple. We know you want everybody to just download an app, but still.

    1. Re: Apple not participating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple can't collect 30% if you just go to a web page.

    2. Re: Apple not participating? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Maybe the A12 will integrate Monero crypto-mining features.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  4. webplatform.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mozilla and a similar group of other actors announced something very similar 5 years ago where they would collaborate on creating content for the then new webplatform.org site. But Mozilla kept doing its own thing on their slow, verbose MDN site and there by undermining the project. The web would be better of without MDN cluttering up search results.

    1. Re:webplatform.org by Hylandr · · Score: 1
      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
  5. We need Mozilla by tsa · · Score: 2

    We need a non-commercial entity like Mozilla just for this.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  6. ** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With most competing browsers and the content industry embracing the W3C EME specification, Mozilla has little choice but to implement EME as well

    FUCK Mozilla

    1. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just use Waterfox: https://www.waterfoxproject.or... it also removes a lot of other annoyances. The beauty of open source is you can just fork them.

    2. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Yes, but at least they didn't do what Google, Microsoft, and Netflix did: actively push the EME into the standard.

      If it weren't for those three companies, EME would not have happened.

    3. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by tepples · · Score: 1

      What makes EME worse than its predecessors Flash and Silverlight? Or how would you recommend implementing video rental, including termination of viewing privileges at the expiry of the rental period, without EME?

    4. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you say is true, but Mozilla offered little more than token resistance. In fact, they merely "voiced objection" and rolled over like it was nothing.

      The W3C is a tremendous failure, comprimised by corporations. It should have been a consortium led by academics without such massive conflicts of interest. Truly a bastardized entity serving only its masters, and the biggest, most visible "not-for-profit" member — Mozilla — did absolutely nothing to stop it.

    5. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Implementing EME is like having a world built on open, visible principles and then building a special tunnel for drug-runners and nation-state actors to circumvent those values and perform their dirty work in a hidden, unauditable fashion, purely for their benefit, and wholly at everyone else's expense.

      At least Flash doesn't pretend to be part of the public's interest in a global standard for interoperability.

    6. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I absolutely agree, and readily condemn Mozilla for its weakness on this issue. But they're a minor devil in this play.

    7. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      *eye roll*

    8. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you need termination of viewing privileges? Do you also extract the content from their brain? How many people really rent the same thing over and over again? Just consider every rental a purchase and be done with it. Electronic media doesn't have the physical costs of renting a VHS tape. Stop trying to force outdated business models onto modern tech.

    9. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by tepples · · Score: 1

      Why do you need termination of viewing privileges?

      Because the studios charge a greater royalty for a transaction equivalent to a purchase of a DVD than for a transaction equivalent to a rental of a DVD.

      Just consider every rental a purchase and be done with it.

      A video service offering only purchases would probably fail would because few people are willing to pay $15 to watch a movie.

      Stop trying to force outdated business models onto modern tech.

      Tell that to the studios.

    10. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      okay chrome nuthugger.

    11. Re:** Mozilla Supports EME ** NEVER FORGET ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sort-of was talking about the studios. I wasn't thinking of you as a middle-man.

  7. Re:And don't forget! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DIY with the Anarchist Cookbook!

  8. Re:CDREIMER 7 YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No he needs to apply for disability on the grounds that he's a retard who can't work.(IANAL)
    They'll decline this because he has a job.
    Then he should continue working until his contract ends and he's laid off.
    Then he can spend the next 2 years on unemployment as long as he keeps bombing interviews
    After that he can lawyer up and present his large periods of unemployment and general lack of success, autistic behavior, and statements from co-workers as proof that he was only extremely lucky to have a pity job as a sped diversity hire. (IANAL)
    Once his disability status is granted he'll be given back-disability for the entire 7 year period when he was collecting a paycheck of unemployment.
    That's 364 weeks in 7 years and at a like 1150 a week for disability that works out to a little under a half million dollars.
    Then he can become another fat retired IT sexpat somewhere.(ANAL)

  9. Re:CDREIMER 7 YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $1150/week for disability? Like, $60K/year? That has to be a mistake. Disabled people are out on street corners begging, like creimer will be in ten-fifteen years once he's an old IT worker and basically unhirable, with no savings.

  10. Re:CDREIMER 7 YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's figuring he will qualify for maximum benefits which he probably get given how much he has paid into SSDI and his current income. IANAL.

    Most disabled people don't qualify for that much and if they're in a group home setting they intentionally leave them only a small amount of money. So begging means good food, a show, smokes, a crack rock or really anything above the basic necessities.

    What would you do right now to right yourself if you were Chris?

  11. Chris at 24 hour fitness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Christopher, my love,

    I am deeply sorry. I didn't feel well lately but I am better now. I am sorry that I called you all sorts of names on /. and I feel truly ashamed of myself.

    The python click script you wrote for me my sweet love for my pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work.

    Could you come visit me in my studio so we could look at it?

    Update: I could go get you at work around noon and we could go have lunch at the Cafe Latte near by where we went last week and tonight we could have a look at that python click script you wrote for me my sweet love for my pheromone revenue stream web site.

    Signed:
    Your sweetee who will love you for ever.

  12. Re:CDREIMER 7 YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know that much about SSDI benefits, but my understanding is that Creimer currently doesn't have a high-end job, and in fact has had a number of years of under-employment. So, he wouldn't qualify for maximum benefits.

    If I was Creimer...probably just try to find a better-paying IT job in an area with a lower cost of living, and save up as much money as possible. Obviously the clock is ticking before he is aged out of the workforce during the next IT downswing and he has to get some job at Home Depot or something. It wouldn't be quite enough to cover medical + housing, but he could cover from savings. I don't think a person at his weight could handle a lot of jobs at age 60, so he might be kind of fucked.

    SSI will cover him for like $15K / year once he get to be 65, soon the money will run out and he'll have to live off Medicaid for the rest of his life, but given his weight he probably won't live much past that anyway.

    Gaming the disability system in the way you mention seems like something that could so easily go wrong. I would definitely want to talk to a lawyer about it.

  13. Re:These moz://a docs shouldn't even be necessary! by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    I tried reading W3C "documentation" a few times. It's so dry and devoid of real-life example as to be useless. It may be the way engineers write documents but it's not the kind of references I'm used to read as a programmer.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  14. Re:CDREIMER 7 YEAR RETIREMENT PLAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I made a mistake... that's workers disability :( 1700 a month is ssdi

    Still he'd make 172000 at the end of 7 years and 1700 a month after that. I believe he could start drawing from any 401k he might have. So it's enough to buy a bigass house in the middle of BFE and make 20k a year. If he needs to he can sell the house later but for many purposes that money will be considered off the books plus he can probably get away with renting a room. Given that he lives in the palo alto area on 55k a year this might be an improvement for him.

  15. We don't need this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We just need everyone to keep to a standard, if they did this would not be necessary. Put your efforts into standardizing instead of documenting differences and we would all be better off.

    IMHO there only should be one web browser, a 100% open source and transparent browser, not owned or managed by any single organization or group. And no organization or group would be allowed to offer a variant. One browser to rule them all. This browser would not trust by default any security certificates either. Everybody is distrusted by default. Trust is something that is earnt not automatically accepted. I would also have a browser that would protect user data by default. In fact if any third party wants to show advertisment they must pay the end user for the privledge. All the technology exists to build such a browser. If a free and open browser existed that paid you as you used it, everyone would use it, if everyone was using it we the corporates would have to follow us, instead of us following them. Then we can tell all these corporate entities to fuck off with their leeching business models.

    Bring the web back to the people.

    My 2c.

  16. Can I have a couple hundred billion dollars? by tepples · · Score: 1

    How do you recommend going about crowdfunding several hundred billion U.S. dollars to acquire a controlling interest in the incumbent movie studios in order to force them to end their policy of price discrimination against rewatchers?