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First Floating Wind Farm Delivers Electricity (arstechnica.com)

The world's first floating offshore wind farm began delivering electricity to the Scottish grid today. "The 30MW installation, situated 25km (15.5mi) from Peterhead in Aberdeenshire, Scotland, will demonstrate that offshore wind energy can be harvested in deep waters, miles away from land, where installing giant turbines was once impractical or impossible," reports Ars Technica. "At peak capacity, the wind farm will produce enough electricity to power 20,000 Scottish homes." From the report: The installation, called Hywind Scotland, is also interesting because it was built by Statoil, a Norwegian mega-corporation known for offshore oil drilling. Statoil has pursued offshore wind projects in recent years, using the companyâ(TM)s experience building and managing infrastructure in difficult open sea conditions to its advantage. Hywind Scotland began producing power in September, and today it starts delivering electricity to the Scottish grid. Now, all that's left is for Statoil and its partner company Masdar to install a 1MWh lithium-ion battery, charmingly called âoeBatwind,â on shore. Batwind will help the offshore system regulate power delivery and optimize output. After a number of small demonstration projects, the five 6MW turbines are the first commercial turbines to lack a firm attachment to the seafloor. They're held in place using three giant suction anchors, which are commonly used in offshore oil drilling. Essentially, an enormous, empty, upside-down âoebucketâ is placed on the seafloor, and air is sucked out of the bucket, which forces the bucket downward, further into the seafloor sediment. The report mentions a 2013 video that shows how offshore wind farms work.

81 comments

  1. Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by turkeydance · · Score: 0

    i guess.

    1. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by jopsen · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's probably no A/Cs in Scotland... and who knows maybe they don't use electricity for heating either. Oh, and it's the EU so energy saving light-bulbs are mandatory.

      There are quite a few brilliant heating systems around the world that use excess heating from electricity production, or waste incinerators... When heating is supplied to your house through a hot water pipe it's possible to get a very impressive efficiency.
      Heating water and installing hot water pipes is boring technology, but well proven and probably one of the more cost efficient ways to reduce greenhouse emissions. Even if the heating origins from burning stuff.

    2. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Homes in the UK mostly use natural gas for heating.

      The UK's average household electricity consumption is slightly below the EU average - which, in turn, is less than half of the US average.

    3. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Trolling much?

      Firstly, it's not Scotland's use that is important, since the UK has a grid that covers Scotland, England and Wales.

      Secondly, and I don't know if this is a good or bad measure, but households in the UK use more electricity per household than in many other European countries. Of course the number is much lower than in the USA, which is profligate in its domestic electricity use.

      Note that many people use electricity for heating. They use storage heaters, which store heat when electricity is cheap (at night) and release it during the day.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Solandri · · Score: 2

      They were being conservative. 30 MW / 20,000 homes = 1500 Watts per home.

      That's higher than the average U.S. home's consumption. 10812 kWh per year / 8766 hours per year = 1233 Watts per home.

    5. Re: Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Jesus fuck, beau, we know you don't fucking edit anything but for fuck's sake at least strip the unicode when you cut and paste someone else's work for your summaries.

    6. Re: Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Funny

      Whatâ(TM)s wrong with the summary?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    7. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i guess.

      Put it this way; Scotland is on the same latitude as Moscow.

      J

    8. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Jon+Peterson · · Score: 1

      Oh, and it's the EU so energy saving light-bulbs are mandatory.

      No they aren't. They were going to ban them in 2012, and then they were going to have another go in 2016, but they are still available in high street shops. You might struggle to find them in a supermarket or department store though, you need to go to a proper lighting supplier or electrical shop.

      That said, most people in their homes now have non-incandescent lamps for regular lighting. Things like the lights in ovens are still incandescent and you can still get replacement bulbs.

      --
      ----- .sig: file not found
    9. Re: Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      I don't think you're allowed to use that trademark when commenting in blogs. IANAL

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    10. Re: Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because what's a âoebucketâ and a âoeBatwind,â and more importantly what is a companyâ(TM)s

    11. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by rapiddescent · · Score: 2

      In the 1970's the lochs (reservoirs) in Argyllshire were converted to hydro electric (with many switched off because the electricity is not required) and the amazing Cruachan hydro scheme can start generating in 25 seconds for burst load on the national grid.

      All the social provided housing in my area is being fitted with PV Solar panels and there is huge wind generation offshore with quite a bit onshore as well. Scotland is one of the windiest places in Europe.

      see the daily wind generation stats here.

    12. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homes in the UK mostly use natural gas for heating.

      And if it's not natural gas, it's often oil fired.

    13. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to this chart about Scotland specifically:

      ~79% natural gas

      ~12% electricity

      ~7% oil

      ~2% other (likely wood and/or coal)

    14. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Heating water and installing hot water pipes is boring technology...

      Especially in Iceland. When you need hot water, you just drill for it.

      Meanwhile, I wouldn't even want to imagine what an âoebucketâ is. Sounds formidable.

    15. Re: Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Oh don't be a mo.... oh. Nice.

    16. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but households in the UK use more electricity per household than in many other European countries.

      [CITATION NEEDED]

    17. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      Oh, and it's the EU so energy saving light-bulbs are mandatory.

      While this quote didn't have a direct negative connotation to it, I'm going to assume by the tone that they don't like that they can't buy incandescent any more. My question is why? I hate incandescent lights. I have two ceiling fans and a chandelier that I am continuously changing bulbs on. It doesn't matter if it's "expensive" GE bulbs or the cheapest ones I can find at WallMart, they just don't last. Dimmable LED bulbs from WallMart go for around $2-3 a piece. The fact that these lights are the most used in my house means I'll likely make up the cost difference in a big hurry, and I (hopefully) will spend less time on a ladder changing light bulbs.

    18. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by dj245 · · Score: 2

      Secondly, and I don't know if this is a good or bad measure, but households in the UK use more electricity per household than in many other European countries. Of course the number is much lower than in the USA, which is profligate in its domestic electricity use.

      Note that many people use electricity for heating. They use storage heaters, which store heat when electricity is cheap (at night) and release it during the day.

      The US has a quite a few cities where the average high is 85F or more for 1/3 to 1/2 of the year. The US also has very low electricity prices, Google tells me that UK electricity costs around 15.5 pence (~$0.20)per KW/hr, which is nearly double my rate.

      I live in the southern part of the US, and my electricity cost peaks at ~$200 per month in the summer. The biggest energy saving measure I could take (aside from removing my pool) would be to install double pane windows. The cost for that ranges from $18k to $45k (I have many large windows). If doing that saved $50/month in AC costs , it would pay for itself in 30 years. The US is generally fairly efficient as far as electricity goes. Despite population increases, especially in the southern US, our electricity use has remained flat or decreased over the past 15 years. I would argue we are as efficient as the current economics dictate.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    19. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Well, it does not really make sense to use the peak output of a power plant and the 'assumed households number' it can supply to calculate the average power consumption of those households.

      Your mind gymnastics was for nothing. Of hou had tried to take a capacity factor into account it would have been more fruitful, but still not leading to the goal :)

      See here: https://www.ovoenergy.com/guid...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    20. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by rgbatduke · · Score: 2

      I also live in the southern US, and installed low E argon filled windows two decades ago. They dropped my electricity bill by maybe 10%. My original equipment furnace/AC units failed ten years ago, and I replaced them with ultra high efficiency HVAC (giant outside condensers etc). That cost a lot, but I had no choice about the replacement and the marginal cost of high efficiency was a few thousand each for the three floors of my house. That (plus finishing my attic and adding 16" of insulation under the roof in addition to the floored in attic insulation that was already there) dropped my bill by another 25%.

      The problem with all of this is that now my house is down to an EPP payment of $145/month (big house, air conditioning, perimenopausal wife so we keep it pretty cold). This basically means that I have little marginal benefit left to receive if I install something like rooftop solar. The amortization time stretches out to over ten years, and while I've probably amortized the cost of the windows and the extra marginal cost (at least) of the HVAC, rooftop solar plus 30 KWH of battery (or more) would cost more than all three HVAC units combined. I keep looking into ways of doing it at zero out of pocket investment, and NC has just passed a bunch of laws that may make it possible -- basically finance it for the cost of my current electric bill over whatever, ten years. If I can work this out, I'll probably do it.

      In other words, I agree that we are as efficient as the current economies dictate, although the rapidly changing CBA for both rooftop solar and commercial solar is going to be changing that over the next three years. Duke Power is planning to install 2.6 GW of solar in NC over the next three years. That is a bit more newsworthy and interesting than installing 30 MW of capacity in Scotland that (I suspect) will amortize "never" unless electricity is incredibly expensive in Scotland. At $0.11/KWH (which is pretty much what I pay in NC IIRC) it takes around 12 years for rooftop solar to pay for itself, assuming it lasts that long without any additional expense, and that is just too damn long.

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    21. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Your larger electricity use (compared to the UK) is probably largely due to living in a house that is much larger than the average house in Europe.

      Electricity per household use in Italy is considerably lower than in the UK. Italy is a much hotter country than the UK.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    22. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but someone who needs AC when the temperature is 85F is probably an idiot.
      I'm to lazy to look it up, but 100F is body temperature (37C). I would not activate any AC below something like 130F.

      OTOH my GF is a Thai, she cools down her car to 16C. I got a bladder infection because of driving to much with her. Now I always have a thick jacket in her car.

      Most places on earth that I visited, where people were using AC don't need AC.

      Either you simply construct better buildings (e.g. as in Germany or UK or for that matter: Spain) or it is actually not "that hot". The idea that you need AC (which implies you are inside of a building) is just overrated or just utter nonsense most of the time.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    23. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by haruchai · · Score: 1

      "I would not activate any AC below something like 130F"

      Wow, you're hardcore. The European Heat Wave of 2003 killed thousands at lower temps than that.

      "my GF is a Thai, she cools down her car to 16C. I got a bladder infection because of driving to much with her. Now I always have a thick jacket in her car"

      ?? Thailand is a fucking hot country - I can't believe anyone who grew up there would enjoy temps that cool.
      I spent a couple decades working outdoors in northern climates so 16C sounds like heaven to me & I'm quite uncomfortable above 22 - 25C especially if it's humid

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    24. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by haruchai · · Score: 1

      +1 Informative

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    25. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're hardcore. The European Heat Wave of 2003 killed thousands at lower temps than that.
      That is nonsense.
      People died in areas where it was much hotter, and they behaved stupid.

      Thailand is a fucking hot country
      It is not. The coast is to windy to be hot and the northern oart is to high to be hot.
      I suggest to travel there once ...
      Of course if you are stuck in a big city ... obviously it is hot,

      - I can't believe anyone who grew up there would enjoy temps that cool.
      She is wearing her pelt inside of the car, unless she is giving it to me, because my skin is becoming blue :)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    26. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by haruchai · · Score: 1

      "That is nonsense.
      People died in areas where it was much hotter"
      130 F is FIFTY-FOUR deg Celsius.
      The vast majority of people who died in the 2003 heatwave were stiff & cold long before it got that hot - which it didn't ANYWHERE

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    27. Re:Scotland's homes don't use much electricity by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Ooops, my fault, I calculated in my head and got it wrong.
      Anyway, it was not that hot ... at least not in the UK, hottest day way 38.5 degrees C 10 August 2003.

      https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/l...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  2. HTML Encoding is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Step one, put all your knowledge into a âoebucketâ

    1. Re:HTML Encoding is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it isn't even html, it's just bad at unicode.

    2. Re:HTML Encoding is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rhymes with "hey oh potater". Maori for "learn to prooread, you fucktard".

  3. And the fish thank you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For letting them be your friend, again.

  4. It's the first one- hope they don't blow it. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's a dumb joke... but it's mine.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  5. 30 MW is good but not a lot by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A typical power plant is often on the order of 100s of MW http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/our-energy-choices/how-is-electricity-measured.html, but this is of course what will be just the first such, and more will follow. Since they have a large battery farm, it will also not suffer from the general problem that many solar and wind farms have of being essentially intermittent in their production and often producing more power than one needs sometimes with no way to store it. Taken together with the fact that new wind systems are so efficient that many are repowering wind farms early https://electrek.co/2017/10/16/new-wind-turbine-efficiency-so-great-utilities-repowering-farms-early/, it appears that we're finally at a point where wind is starting to be a a serious competitor. Even if natural as were not killing coal and oil, solar and wind would seem to be doing almost as effective a job.

    1. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      30 MW is not good. It's complete shit. A 500 MW combined cycle power plant consumes 10 MW in parasitic load. In other words this wind farm is just doing nothing. 20,000 homes? That's if the wind is blowing all the time. More likely a coal burner is picking up the slack.

      You spent millions to do nothing. Thanks whoever built this. What a waste.

      This is the first of its kind, dumbfuck. Scotland only has 1 coal plant in operation but it's a big one.
      They do have quite a bit of hydroelectric, both pumped & conventional

    2. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wind has been competitive or on the cusp of being competitive for about 5 years now. Especially off of Scotland, which has the highest capacity factor for wind in the world (capacity factor = ratio of actual electricity produced to peak production capability). In most of the world, onshore wind has a capacity factor of about 0.2-0.25, offshore wind about 0.3-0.4. Off Scotland it's closer to 0.6, with some locations going over 0.7. So if there's one place where wind will be viable and competitive, it's Scotland. (Not true for solar, which still relies heavily on subsidies to be cost-competitive.)

      The 1 MWh battery they have is laughably tiny. For a typical power plant churning out 500 MW, that's 7.2 seconds worth of electricity. Even for a 30 MW wind farm with 0.6 capacity factor, it's only 3.3 minutes worth of electricity. What's going to save them is that the winds off Scotland are very consistent so they're not going to need that battery much.

      Also, as stated in summary, these floating wind turbines borrow a lot of technology from oil platforms - anchorage, stability in heavy seas, survivability against ice floes, and underwater pipe/cable for pumping the oil/electricity back to shore. Some people like to think nothing good comes from oil, but that's simply not true. If it weren't for the R&D done by the oil industry, it probably would've taken 20 more years to get this floating wind farm working. This isn't an Us vs Them situation. This is simply All of Us finding the most cost-effective and least damaging forms of energy generation. Most oil companies are also heavily invested in renewable energy technology. Because they're not really oil companies; they're energy companies.

    3. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "That's if the wind is blowing all the time" I take it you have never been to Scotland.

    4. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Barsteward · · Score: 2

      "That's if the wind is blowing all the time." - you'd be hard put to find a spot in the North Sea where the wind doesn't blow.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    5. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true for solar, which still relies heavily on subsidies to be cost-competitive.

      Maybe in Scotland, but there's plenty of places (including the US) where the levelised cost of solar without subsidies is lower than that of coal. In a few places it's even less than the cost of the fuel alone, let alone plant costs.

      And never forgetting that no fossil fuel would be remotely competitive if their externalised costs were included on the sticker.

    6. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Maritz · · Score: 1

      "It isn't perfect so it's worthless" - Dumbass AC, 2017.

      Did it ever occur to you that there might be more of these? Did it ever occur to you that maybe other people aren't the idiots you assume them to be, and maybe you're not quite as smart as you fucking assume?

      Nope on both counts, I expect.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    7. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by rapiddescent · · Score: 1

      Interesting that Scottish electricity producers have to pay to connect to the grid because there is so much electricity being produced and not enough population density to use it; whereas electricity producers in England (much more densely populated) are subsidised to connect to the national grid.

      It seems new production records are announced every few months

    8. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they're not really oil companies; they're energy companies.

      Because they're desperate oil companies trying to offload toxic assets (worthless oil fields that should never be pumped dry if we want to seriously limit CO2 emissions) and attempting to re-brand themselves as energy companies.

    9. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

      Yeah, those silly engineers and accountants forgot to ask Mr. AC during the planning phase. People like that need to take long walks off short piers. Preferably short piers extending into the North Sea.

    10. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

      Scotland is not renown for its sunny days. The US spans a much larger range of latitudes.

    11. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " Did it ever occur to you that maybe other people aren't the idiots you assume them to be"

      no , as we are talking about Trump fodder merkins , it is the exception to find one that isn't as dumb as none americas assume them to be. (hint a bag of rocks would win in commparision).

      They were probally more suprised to find Scotland had electricity as you know it''s Not America !!

    12. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Solar is one of the cheapest forms of energy, one of the few that is subsidy free in the UK, compete with battery storage. https://uk.reuters.com/article...

      The battery isn't a UPS, it's for smoothing the output as the wind fluctuates slightly. It also gives them some capability to meet short term peaks, which are very profitable.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The 1 MWh battery they have is laughably tiny. For a typical power plant churning out 500 MW, that's 7.2 seconds worth of electricity.

      So exactly the right size to allow a windfarm to ride through a sudden grid induced load shift and thus potentially avoid a cascading outage of the entire wind farm as it loses synchronisation to the grid.

      Not everything is about powering homes.

    14. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      20,000 homes? That's if the wind is blowing all the time. More likely a coal burner is picking up the slack.

      By now they have probably upgraded the peaking plant to either Russian natural gas - or even better, to American wood chips. By EU carbon accounting rules, that counts as a renewable.

    15. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      That's if the wind is blowing all the time.
      Which part of:
      a) Scotland
      b) offshore

      did you not get? Did you no notice that mentioned in the article or is your brain not capable to grasp the implication?

      Perhaps a look on google maps might give you some insights?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by dcarmi · · Score: 1

      30 MW is not good. It's complete shit. A 500 MW combined cycle power plant consumes 10 MW in parasitic load. In other words this wind farm is just doing nothing. 20,000 homes? That's if the wind is blowing all the time. More likely a coal burner is picking up the slack.

      You spent millions to do nothing. Thanks whoever built this. What a waste.

      This is the first of its kind, dumbfuck. Scotland only has 1 coal plant in operation but it's a big one. They do have quite a bit of hydroelectric, both pumped & conventional

      Actually, the last Scottish coal-fired plant closed in early 2016 (Longannet). The UK as a whole will only have 4 of the old coal-fired plants left, by the end of next year. Most of the well over a hundred plants we used to have in the UK were closed in the 1980s and 1990s.

      Besides the Peterhead floating wind farm consists of just 5 turbines, as a pilot. If successful, they plan large scale deployment in much deeper waters.

    17. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally ironic that it's a oil company hedging it's bet on R&D for future of renewable.

      All those silly engineers have no idea what they're doing, but Mr. Archair A/C Supergenius is here to save the day!

    18. Re:30 MW is good but not a lot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nope not even remotely subsidy free..

      https://www.gov.uk/feed-in-tariffs

  6. Insulate miles of Under Water delivery by charliemerritt03 · · Score: 0

    Salt water and electrical stuff tend to not mix, so how do they send (high voltage?) power - Must be some impressive insulation.

    1. Re: Insulate miles of Under Water delivery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Salt water and electrical stuff tend to not mix, so how do they send (high voltage?) power - Must be some impressive insulation.

      Thanks for dropping by, genius. Electricity has been transmitted underwater for 100 years; offshore wind turbines have been around for 1/4 century. It's all transmitted by pixies.

    2. Re: Insulate miles of Under Water delivery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's a photo of the cross-section of a similar cable. It's pretty impressive.

      The above cable contains 3 wires, each 500mm^2 in cross section. It's rated at 245kV, but I think it runs at 230kV, meaning it can carry 860A at full capacity.

      dom

    3. Re: Insulate miles of Under Water delivery by Maritz · · Score: 4, Funny

      They use cables. You should look them up, it'll blow your mind.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    4. Re: Insulate miles of Under Water delivery by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Salt water and electrical stuff tend to not mix, so how do they send (high voltage?) power - Must be some impressive insulation.

      Underwater transmission lines are not the problem here, but with time rotating mechanical parts exposed to salt spray will be. Each wind turbine nacelle has about the same mechanical complexity as an automatic transmission.

    5. Re: Insulate miles of Under Water delivery by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      If only there would be ways to make things water tight ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re: Insulate miles of Under Water delivery by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of ways to make things water tight. However, said things tend to be stationary and without rotational/moving bits on them. Thus even ships need bilge pumps to deal with leakage around the prop shaft - and those seals are really well developed over a hundred plus years...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  7. aye, the batty wind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it goesh rite up yer batty

  8. Gotta be water, not air by swillden · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Essentially, an enormous, empty, upside-down âoebucketâ is placed on the seafloor, and air is sucked out of the bucket, which forces the bucket downward, further into the seafloor sediment.

    If there's a lot of air in that bucket, you're going to have a hard time getting it to the bottom. I'd guess they actually just open the suction hole and let the air flow out and fill it with water as they're lowering it, then once it's on the bottom they suck water out. The flow of water over the bottom edge seems like it would loosen the sand and make it easier for the bucket to sink, at the same time that the water pressure on top of the bucket (due to the pressure differential from the suction) would force it downward.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    1. Re:Gotta be water, not air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not if your bucket is heavy enough

    2. Re:Gotta be water, not air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe the air is liquid.

    3. Re:Gotta be water, not air by hey! · · Score: 1

      This just like setting up an inertial platform in the ocean. You tow the long tube out horizontally and then flood one end of it. The flooding end sinks while the not-flooded-yet end pops up.

      If you divided the platform into two watertight segments, you could flood just one of the compartments and it would flip up to a vertical orientation with part of the non-flooded compartment below the waterline. You then position the tower where you want it, and flood the upper compartment just enough to settle it on the sea floor with enough force to keep it in place. It remains in part supported in its upright position by bouyancy. The flooded section is under compression; the part with air is under tension up to the displacement point of the above-water part.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Gotta be water, not air by dj245 · · Score: 1

      Essentially, an enormous, empty, upside-down âoebucketâ is placed on the seafloor, and air is sucked out of the bucket, which forces the bucket downward, further into the seafloor sediment.

      If there's a lot of air in that bucket, you're going to have a hard time getting it to the bottom. I'd guess they actually just open the suction hole and let the air flow out and fill it with water as they're lowering it, then once it's on the bottom they suck water out. The flow of water over the bottom edge seems like it would loosen the sand and make it easier for the bucket to sink, at the same time that the water pressure on top of the bucket (due to the pressure differential from the suction) would force it downward.

      That is a generally accurate description.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    5. Re:Gotta be water, not air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much this exactly. Let the air out on the way down. Once stuck into seabed, withdraw water. Differential pressure pushes it down into the sea floor. If you let the differential pressure get too high, you will collapse your "bucket". (It's a suction pile by the way.)

      I have seen 9 foot and 15 foot diameter piles when I was setting them in the Gulf of Mexico. Probably around 2003 or 2004.

  9. like Batty Roy, the batty boy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the batty wind upon his toy

  10. No Doubt Soon The US navy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sponsored by Big Coal will 'accidentally' collide with them all. (Sorry we thought you were a lighthouse).

    #Maga USA #1!

  11. Re:As an EE by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    As someone who thinks you're an extremely stupid piece of whale excrement, I assume you know nothing at all about anything. I am sure Statoil has no engineers on staff to figure stuff out. They totally missed the boat by not contacting Mr. AC EE.

    Please drown yourself in a kiddie pool.

  12. Or you use a lot more than you need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's another possibility.

  13. Be accurate by sjbe · · Score: 1

    And never forgetting that no fossil fuel would be remotely competitive if their externalised costs were included on the sticker.

    Your premise is correct but let's be accurate. Yes you are correct that fossil fuels do not have to include the cost of all their externalities (pollution, carbon, etc) which would add VERY substantially to their price. Not to mention the subsidies to the tune of several trillion dollars annually worldwide. But there are applications for fossil fuels for which there currently are no practical alternatives such as jet fuel, so saying they wouldn't be competitive requires some clarification about the circumstances. Furthermore there are use cases where fossil fuels are and will remain the most practical and economic source of power for the foreseeable future even if you suddenly were to burden them with the full cost of the pollution they cause.

    Don't get me wrong, I think fossil fuels present a real and present danger but the goal should be to minimize their use since getting rid of them completely isn't going to happen.

    1. Re:Be accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >since getting rid of them completely isn't going to happen.
      in 2040 only rockets will require burning fossil fuels. (at the rate batteries are getting more efficient+cheaper+smaller, it won't take until 2030 for planes to use batteries as well.)

    2. Re:Be accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, there are and likely will continue to be cases where fossil fuels are unavoidable, where even with their external costs included it's still an economic gain over the alternatives.

      Of course we should minimise those cases by continually improving the alternatives, perhaps hydrogen or carbon-neutral generated hydrocarbons for jet fuel (certainly practical for rockets). And we should never delude ourselves by ignoring those externalised costs - we still have to pay them, no matter how diffuse or hard-to-calculate they are.

    3. Re:Be accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SpaceX's Raptor engine runs on pollution-free methane, which is a simple hydrocarbon that combusts to CO2 and water, and can even be carbon-neutral too if you generate the methane from air + water + renewable energy.

    4. Re:Be accurate by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      They are very close on jet fuel. If artificial jet fuel got a fraction of the subsidies oil companies did, it would probably be competitive now.

      We would have no need to have spent 2 trillion dollars if iraq wasn't an oil country.

      I'm looking forward to a time when oil is an interesting low profit item and not a major geopolitical force any more.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  14. Wow... Now That's..... by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Shocking!

    At least when the wind blows...

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  15. Re: transmitted by pixies. by Dareth · · Score: 2

    Tinkerbell said, "Let my people go!"

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  16. Re:As an EE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's great that the human race made such strides in communication as the internet to be overtaken by people like you. You're really a testament to everything humans have worked to produce over the past few thousand years.