Samsung To Let Proper Linux Distros Run on Galaxy Smartphones (theregister.co.uk)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Samsung has announced it will soon become possible to run actual proper Linux on its Note8, Galaxy S8 and S8+ smartphones -- and even Linux desktops. Yeah, yeah, we know Android is built on Linux, but you know what we mean. Samsung said it's working on an app called "Linux on Galaxy" that will let users "run their preferred Linux distribution on their smartphones utilizing the same Linux kernel that powers the Android OS." "Whenever they need to use a function that is not available on the smartphone OS, users can simply switch to the app and run any program they need to in a Linux OS environment," Samsung says. The app also allows multiple OSes to run on a device. Linux desktops will become available if users plug their phones into the DeX Station, the device that lets a Galaxy 8 run a Samsung-created desktop-like environment when connected to the DeX and an external monitor.

Comments

Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

Slow it down with Gnome 3 and Wayland :D

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean slow it with X, which will also use all the available space.

Re:Slow it down

[Fly Swatter]

Someone fell for the the wayland hype. Sure the new thing may be technically faster, but if X is that bad, it would have been dumped decades ago, yet its still here.

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

Various groups have been trying to dump X almost since it was invented. Wayland is just the latest.

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

How bad does it have to be to be something that needs to be replaced instead of making gum fixes?

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

When it actually does the job of what it replaces? So far nothing has replaced what X's original design.

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but can it run a Beowulf cluster?

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

Wayland doesn't have drivers and is dead slow

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

I can play that game too. Watch.

"If C was that bad, it would have been dumped decades ago, yet it's still here."
"If PHP was that bad, it would have been dumped decades ago, yet it's still here."
"If Windows was that bad, it would have been dumped decades ago, yet it's still here."

Popularity does not imply technical merit.

Re:Slow it down

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't just magically take a full software with all the features out of a hat. It's called developing. Secondly, Wayland has not taken over nothing yet, so there's no need to be so hostile about it. Thirdly, is X's original design up to the needs of today?

Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get what Samsung is trying to do, and while I think the idea is clever, I'm not sure the "Dex" platform is the solution. If need a monitor, mouse, and keyboard attached to their dock I need to bring a dock everywhere I go. I'm not IT, but I don't think they would be keen on people unplugging their periferials from workstations. At my own desk it's much more valuable to just have a computer. Or a laptop. Or even a tablet.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[aap]

Some companies, or at least their management, might appreciate a cube farm full of docks, mice, and keyboards, with no permanent seat assignments.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[djfunkisdead]

I get what Samsung is trying to do, and while I think the idea is clever, I'm not sure the "Dex" platform is the solution.

Clearly Samsung should've called Motorola for some been-there-done-that information. Moto tried this whole thing with the Atrix line (which was an awesome phone with the best biometric implementation), and it BOMBED!!! Web-dock, Desktop-dock, TV-dock; no-no-no.

I get that they exist to make money, but if they think a few thousand Penguin worshippers are going to affect the bottom line...might be time for some new employees. Also, I'll be interested in the EULA.

P.S. "Penguin worshippers" is meant lovingly...

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[philipmather]

An S8+ with Dex system is actually very close to perfect for me, what Canonical's Unity aspired to be probably. Even the Standard Android Dex desktop "thing" is pretty close to acceptably good. It's actually only really let down by the quality of the apps, I can't find a decent resizable "sh"-ish terminal or SSH client. There's quiet a few but they all have their own little oddities. After that there is a little bit of clunkiness in the GUI because Android isn't really "desktop" orientated but it's better than some tablet UI's.

They're very, very close. If this works well they'll potentially have nailed it.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Companies routinely buy docks for your desk and you home, the places where you need a traditional personal computing environment. If you are on the road, it's still hard to beat a laptop experience that bundles all of you human interface inputs into one platform. A phone does that as well, but small touch screens and typing leaves a lot to be desired

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[TWX]

Termux. launches Bash and provides a debian-style package management system for extra tools. think Cygwin for Android.

If you have a [physical keyboard then your phone can essentially become just a screen.

The one thing I wish it could do on a stock phone is talk to a USB-OTG serial adapter. unfortunately that requires root and I haven't felt like modifying my phone's base system to get it.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[ArhcAngel]

And Motorola should have called IBM, OQO, Asus, etc. Until the iPhone took off nobody thought a full color phone with less than a days worth of battery and data heavy would sell. BlackBerry was blindsided because their entire ecosystem was built around low bandwidth and long battery life. This model keeps coming up because it's a good idea and all it will take is for enough people to switch to reach a tipping point. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a [physical keyboard then your phone can essentially become just a screen

I busted my ass to get this 27 inch screen, so you'll have to pardon me when I give this bit of news a big whoop-dee-freakin-doo

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Scoth]

I was seriously tempted by the Atrix, but the main thing that turned me off was the expense of the various docks. There's nothing the docks do that shouldn't be possible with a simple MHL cable and bluetooth peripherals, or a relatively cheap dock/hub. I believe there were hacks to force the Atrix into webtop mode with other things, but I can't recall now.

It looks like the DeX dock is just under $100 on Amazon which isn't terrible, but could really add up if you wanted one in multiple locations. Give me a cheap cable with maybe an HDMI out and one USB port (add a cheap hub) and I'd be happy.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get what Samsung is trying to do, and while I think the idea is clever, I'm not sure the "Dex" platform is the solution.

Clearly Samsung should've called Motorola for some been-there-done-that information. Moto tried this whole thing with the Atrix line (which was an awesome phone with the best biometric implementation), and it BOMBED!!! Web-dock, Desktop-dock, TV-dock; no-no-no.

I get that they exist to make money, but if they think a few thousand Penguin worshippers are going to affect the bottom line...might be time for some new employees. Also, I'll be interested in the EULA.

P.S. "Penguin worshippers" is meant lovingly...

This is basically an "add-on" feature to a core product line, not a core product feature in itself. The product does not depend on this feature being successful.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

your yours have no r's

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[pr0fessor]

Didn't one of them have a cellphone that docked in a laptop chassis that never made it to market. The cellphone that can dock and become more is a good idea but the hardware hasn't been ready, it probably still isn't but it's a lot closer.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[torkus]

Forget the cheap cable...miracast should be the answer (and charge a DeX license fee instead of selling hardware if they want).

I actually proposed this to the engineers on-site for the launch event and caused some consternation at the time. I was "that guy" asking for the feature they didn't have, didn't think of, and pretty much would make their product useless :)

With that said, I have one and use it. It needs some refinement around the apps and all to be truly useful by itself. Instead it does work as a good platform for Citrix and getting back to our VM farm at work.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a note 8, and my USB-C hub works fine on it, givng me vga, hdmi, and usb. Works surprisingly well.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[TheFakeTimCook]

An S8+ with Dex system is actually very close to perfect for me, what Canonical's Unity aspired to be probably. Even the Standard Android Dex desktop "thing" is pretty close to acceptably good. It's actually only really let down by the quality of the apps, I can't find a decent resizable "sh"-ish terminal or SSH client. There's quiet a few but they all have their own little oddities. After that there is a little bit of clunkiness in the GUI because Android isn't really "desktop" orientated but it's better than some tablet UI's.

They're very, very close. If this works well they'll potentially have nailed it.

Close to perfect?

So you won't mind having to RECOMPILE every-single-Linux-Application from scratch for ARM, AND solving all the x86-isms in it?

Yeah, sounds like a GREAT idea... NOT! Just like that ARM laptop that MS announced a day or so ago...

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[aardvarkjoe]

While I haven't read anything about how this works beyond the Slashdot summary, it sounds to me like this could appeal to the type of people who have a smartphone as their only computing device. They may not want to get a "new computer", but if they could plug their phone into a dock when they want to write a document, or browse the web with a normal keyboard in mouse, they might go for it.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you talking about?

Linux for ARM, with proper compiled packages, exists for years.
Also, compiling for ARM (or any other non-x86 arch) very rarely is an issue.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[ConceptJunkie]

I'll second the recommendation for Termux. SInce you can install python, clang, go, lua, etc. and a ton of console apps, you get a goodly portion of Linux desktop functionality right there on Android. No X, but you can be a Real Programmer and use the CLI.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really an issue linux and arm have been harmonious for a while now. Just look at the RPi

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[smammon]

This was the problem with Ubuntu Touch. I had the tablet and would have loved it except it's a different processor architecture and the software you are used to is not available. They did provide LibreOffice and a couple other minor things but other than that there is only so much that can be done in HTML 5. Maybe if a major manufacturer like Samsung does this and provides a relatively easy IDE or even starts / funds a project to compile software for the architecture it will take off.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[BronsCon]

I still have the Lapdock from my Atrix. I use it with a Pi Zero. I don't have a real use case for it, to be quite honest, but I had the hardware laying around and decided to see if I could get it working and, well, I could. No real point to this comment, figured someone might find it interesting.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am still waiting for a computer I can wear on my wrist or comfortably put in my pocket that I can set down on a table where it will then project an image and virtual input interface. That or have a voice assistant that actually works at least as well as I can type and click. I have been dreaming of such a device since the first iphone came out. If I had the technical know-how or capital to pay people that do I would have it already.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[TheFakeTimCook]

This was the problem with Ubuntu Touch. I had the tablet and would have loved it except it's a different processor architecture and the software you are used to is not available. They did provide LibreOffice and a couple other minor things but other than that there is only so much that can be done in HTML 5. Maybe if a major manufacturer like Samsung does this and provides a relatively easy IDE or even starts / funds a project to compile software for the architecture it will take off.

Well, speaking from Mac experience, most, if not all, of the Linux -> macOS Cross-Compiling tools (like Fink and MacPorts) and sites that supported them haven't exploded in popularity over the years (although they ARE still being actively maintained!), and that is WITH the same Processor Architecture!

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

never heard of archlinuxarm? go back to your counter strike. your mom will be down with the soup soon.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Rob Y.]

It's not quite that the hardware hasn't been ready - it's that the natural audience for the hardware (those businesses that would want to stock a bunch of generic cubicles) is still stuck with Windows. And now with Windows Phone out the window, that audience isn't likely to be served. Of course, there's that other audience (schools, etc, that hand out Chromebooks) that might do well with a dock students can use to plug in their own phones and have a desktop-style browser with all their personal stuff as well.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[ChunderDownunder]

Yep, hot-desking, where you just plug in.

It happened where I worked with consultants. The idea was that they were too busy with work out in the field with clients to require a permanent desk.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

A few MILLION penguin worshippers is obviously not enough to get a phone of their own - but that is not what they get here. They get an APP to run their penguin-stuff on a phone that is otherwise the same kind of phone the masses use. Fun for the penguin folks, a cheap trick for Samsung, gets them some goodwill.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

For serial on the go I guess you can make an ESP8266 based serial to remote (via wifi) dongle.

http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/863.14/tutorials/Programming/serialwifi.html

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

FTDI based USB-UART converter work fine via USB-OTG in my experience. Tested with some random Terminal apps from the Play Store on a non-rooted device Note 3.

Re:Yeah, but can it run linux?

[pr0fessor]

The new Windows 10 ARM is supposed to be out in December depending how expensive it is... it will be running on the same soc.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[TWX]

I meant within termux itself.

I have a USB terminal program but I have to change applications, can't simply launch minicom and be done with it.

Re: Yeah, but can it run linux?

[TWX]

Because I have a 27" monitor with me at all times for when I get unexpectedly called because the network is down somewhere and I have to help restore it...

Now I get to troubleshoot X windows on my phone

[enjar]

Progress? Will the sound drivers work? Wifi?

Re:Now I get to troubleshoot X windows on my phone

[Anonymous Coward]

You know that sound and wifi is provided by kernel, and they generally already work on Samsung smartphones?

Re:Now I get to troubleshoot X windows on my phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Progress?

Will the sound drivers work? Wifi?

They'll be using PulseAudio and systemd.

So, no. They won't work.

Re:Now I get to troubleshoot X windows on my phone

[Anonymous Coward]

i have never had any problems with systemd and pulseaudio

About time.

[jonr]

About time. Why can't my phone be my PC? Plug in a monitor, wireless keyboard, and voila! Unless you are running seriously heavy software (Where you would probably use a desktop anyway) a smartphone could probably run 99% of your stuff. I am only talking as software developer here.

My daily-driver laptop is an 8GB RAM 128GB SSD i7 8 core computer.
I can get a, say, Samsung Galaxy Note8 with 6GB RAM and 128GB SSD ARM 8 core CPU. Definetly not fast as my laptop, but probably fast enough to compile some files and run a development environment.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't my phone be my PC?

Because they are two different things with two different use cases.

When I buy a phone, number one thing I look at is how it fits in my pocket. A phone that doesn't fit in my pocket is a desk phone. When I buy a PC, number one thing I look at is the number of PCI / PCIe slots. If I need to add a faster graphics card, I don't want to have to replace my PC.

But then again, I use my phone for texting and calls and my PC for everything except Facebook. If you use both for Facebook, why do you need both in the first place?

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, better let the uber/lyft driver get ripped off

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Having owned an ubuntu phone I am very skeptical. It failed to please me because it ran a subset of possible Linux apps and was slow as molasses. I'd wait to see what limitations you would have. Meanwhile I've found the GPD Pocket to be an awesome little machine when it is running Ubuntu. But it is a separate device from your phone.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Why can't my phone be my PC?

> Because they are two different things with two different use cases.

Not necessarily. They are two similar things with different operating contexts, but the goals are the same - communication and managing data.

I would love to have a smartphone that I can just insert into a laptop or tablet case and have all my data and apps in one place, but with more battery life, screen size, full keyboard + trackpad, etc. Pull the phone out and take all your work with you when you hit the road.

Ideally the "computer" would just be a VM hosted by both your phone and your laptop/desktop.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

^^This^^ A thousand times this.
Back in the day, I had a PDA, a phone, a desktop and a pile of books.
Now all I have is a phone and a laptop.
I would love it if my phone can replace my laptop as well.
I do not think that this is it, but it is very much a step in the right direction.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

In my case, I'd rather have a $200 phone and a separate $300 desktop that far outperforms said phone than need to buy a $600 phone to get less performance. Sync is a solved issue, so I don't really see the benefits of using a single device.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

Yeah, just like I "rip off" the grocery store clerk by shopping at the grocery store with the lower prices.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

They are already letting themselves be ripped off with their time barely being compensated and the wear and tear on their car not being compensated at all.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are ripping off grocery store clerks when you buy grey market groceries off the back of a truck from a shady dealer who circumvents tax and labor laws, thus undermining everyone else's ability to make an honest living and live in a functional society.

Re:About time.

[nightfire-unique]

lol

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

So... those farmers markets are a big no-no then. I'll keep that in mind.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Iphone SE fits your requirements.

Re:About time.

[TheFakeTimCook]

Why can't my phone be my PC?

Because it's a PHONE, dammit!!!

Just because it has a LITTLE computer inside of it, like your Microwave Oven, DVD/BD Player, and Set Top Box, does NOT make it a "Desktop Replacement", FFS! There are a MILLION reasons why; not the least of which is an entirely different CPU architecture. Yes, I've heard of Compiling for a different Target; but that only solves 80% of the problems, and the other 20% are the toughies...

Remember, PHONES are optimized for BATTERY LIFE. Slow-Ass RAM (as compared to a modern Desktop), Slow-Ass Flash (as compared to a modern SSD), Slow-Ass CPUs (when not running code specifically designed for the PHONE's environment).

Not to mention the Human Interface, unusably small screen (especially for Developers), primitive LAN stacks, etc. etc.

Someday, maybe. But for now, and for a great many applications, a Laptop still smokes that idea to a very large extent. And guess what? It's PORTABLE TOO, just like a Smartphone!!!

And I'm talking as an Embedded Developer.

Re:About time.

[TheFakeTimCook]

It's not just about the hardware. I want to be able to buy a reasonably priced phone that doesn't phone back my private life to Google and yet has apps like Uber/Lyft so that I can travel without getting ripped off by cabs. Too much to ask?

Depends on what you call "Reasonably Priced"; but you can get a CURRENT MODEL iPhone SE, with a 4.7" screen, 12 MP camera capable of shooting 4k video, 64-bit A9 Dual Core ARM, WiFi, Bluetooth, Fingerprint Reader, etc. etc. (and a headphone jack!) for only $349 for 32 GB or $449 for 128 GB, Brand New. UNLOCKED (Carrier-Free) directly from Apple! Or you can get Carrier-Subsidized models for around $15 per month.

https://www.apple.com/iphone-s...

Personally, I call that pretty Reasonably Priced. ...And it will run the latest iOS (iOS 11), and will continue to get Updates (and it will REALLY get them!) for a long, long time!

And no, Apple doesn't make YOU the customer, like Google does.

Period.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just like I "rip off" the grocery store clerk by shopping at the grocery store with the lower prices.

Yeah, in a sense you do, forcing grocery stores to use substandard wages to get your business. Not that your paying more would result in stores payed their clerks more. Predatory capitalism works that way. Not that Predatory socialism doesn't also work that way. Power structures just work that way.

Re:About time.

[therealspacebug]

"Why can't my phone be my PC? Plug in a monitor, wireless keyboard, and voila! "

You CAN!

https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/


:-)

Re:About time.

[bazorg]

erm... Get a Windows Phone with Continuum while it still exists?

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF rock have you been living under? Flagship phones of the last couple years can easily keep with a moderately speced laptop of their era. We aren't talking about $50 pay as you go bottom of the barrel smart phones here.

If you're an embedded developer you must be playing around with embedded shit from a decade ago.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

And no, Apple doesn't make YOU the customer, like Google does.

Period.

Umm, Google sure as hell doesn't consider you the customer. Period.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, there's no 8 core laptop.. back to school Linux boy. That's' Linux interpreting hyper threading as cores

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

Life works that way. As a species we are resource-constrained, so we jockey for resources. Barring a perfect intelligence that can make perfect resource allocations, we are always going to have resource winners and losers. My kids think this is deeply unfair, and they are right. But at the end of the day, you need to get yourself into a position as a resource allocator by out-competing the rest. If you still want to live like a monk and strive to make stuff fair in that position, go nuts - it will make you a better person than most of us.

In nature you see this all the time. The giraffe with the longest neck gets food that the other giraffes cannot. Even our propensity to cooperate as a species is entirely a result of competitive pressure with other species. If we manage to get to the point where we fairly allocate all resources to all humans, it will be at the expense of most other species on the planet... how's that for cynical? :)

Re:About time.

[jez9999]

He means they don't make you the product.

And no, they don't. They just commit daylight robbery with their prices. And contribute happily to the liberal censorship in Silicon Valley.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

how fast did they ship it to you after backing the project?

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

So... those farmers markets are a big no-no then. I'll keep that in mind.

You're happy with this argument? I mean, really? You think you have made a good point here by conflating the black/grey market with farmer's markets? You're glad you went with this?

Re:About time.

[thegarbz]

So just buy any Google phone. You know a Google account is optional right? As is running Google's Launcher, and anything else by Google on it.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

If you are happy conflating Uber with a black/grey market, then I am absolutely thrilled to return in kind.

Re:About time.

[TheFakeTimCook]

Thank you, to both TFTC and anonymous. It looks like that it definitely does and I'll be looking into it tonight.

No problem! Glad to help!!!

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

About time. Why can't my phone be my PC? Plug in a monitor, wireless keyboard, and voila!

You are seriously asking? Seriously: because Android UI sucks for basically anything that does not resemble media consumption. I know what I'm talking about, I've been using Android this way for years, and it's a slit-your-wrists painful experience, with exactly one advantage: it runs on the tablet, with typically 3-8X battery life of a laptop, doesn't give you spinal curvature when carried in a backpack, and fits on an airline folding tray. Oh, and has touch screen, gps, etc... stuff that somehow didn't make it into Microsoft's PC revolution (well, touch screen kinda did, but only on stupidly overpriced laptops).

Android could have been fixed years ago to have something better than the ultra crappy, nigh-on useless cut and paste it has, and normal resizable/draggable windows. But the smart people at Google are apparently not smart enough to do that, or hey, maybe making you suffer so they can sell you as a product better is smart, if making Google richer is the only metric that really matters.

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

He means they don't make you the product. And no, they don't. They just commit daylight robbery with their prices. And contribute happily to the liberal censorship in Silicon Valley.

Oh hey, no they do. They do that too. Apple is busy selling you as a product just like Google does, they just aren't as good at it.

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

Good luck putting that desktop in your backpack.

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

Why can't my phone be my PC?

Because it's a PHONE, dammit!!!

Earth to you: no it isn't! Phones stopped being primarily phones years ago, and are now general purpose computers.

Re:About time.

[nasch]

Now imagine you're someone who 1) wants a $600 (or more) phone anyway 2) doesn't do anything with a computer that a phone couldn't do and 3) uses your phone much more heavily than your computer. Now a phone dock starts to look more attractive.

Re:About time.

[TheFakeTimCook]

Why can't my phone be my PC?

Because it's a PHONE, dammit!!!

Earth to you: no it isn't! Phones stopped being primarily phones years ago, and are now general purpose computers.

I get it. Do you think I don't own a Smartphone?

But seriously, there are a bunch of reasons why Smartphones/Phablets will always remain VASTLY inferior with what you can put together in a desktop or rack system, and will LIKELY remain VERY inferior with even what you can do in a laptop. For some things, we're already " there" with phones; but never kid yourself that they are in any way a replacement for desktop and laptop systems in many applications.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

I'm just trying to picture the teeny-tiny little overlapping circles on the Venn diagram for how many people fit that description.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

You are going to carry around the dock, monitor, keyboard, and mouse for your phone? No, probably not. You leave the desktop sitting wherever it is you planned on sticking the dock.

Re:About time.

[nasch]

I was hoping to find some numbers but didn't find anything about how people actually use computers at home. I'm thinking the most common uses are:

- social networking
- general web surfing
- email (among those who use email)
- video streaming
- gaming

A phone is obviously not suited for technically demanding games, so PC gamers will continue to have dedicated PCs. The rest of it could be (and is) powered by a phone just fine.

It's been a year since at least by some measures mobile web use exceeded PC: http://bgr.com/2016/11/02/inte...
That's a trend that will only continue, and more and more people won't have a PC at all.

Finally, the $600 phone. That isn't even a particularly expensive phone, and there are phones that cost almost twice that now.

None of this specifically addresses the overlap between the three groups, but I would be surprised if it were not very very large.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

The problem is there aren't a lot of people who enjoy social networking, web surfing, email, and watching videos with their phone who think, "You know what would make this more enjoyable? Anchoring this thing that I'm playing with on the couch to a fixed location in the house that costs a couple of hundred extra dollars."

Video streaming is better on the couch. Web surfing is better on the couch. Social media is better on the couch. Casual gaming is better on the couch.

Things that suck on the couch are Office apps, editing video, editing and organizing photos... stuff like that. Even low-end phones can easily handle office type stuff, but editing video and photos is going to suck on a phone (photos less so). So yeah, I guess for the narrow case where someone needs to do some light word processing or spreadsheet work and they for some reason really, really want to keep it all on their phone instead of using Dropbox, iCloud, or similar... yeah, that is the sliver of a Venn diagram that I was referring to. I just don't see many of those people opting for the docking station over a desktop. Hell, most people just buy a laptop these days, which can still be used on the couch when your phone battery runs out! :)

Re:About time.

[nasch]

How about a dock that sends the display to the TV, and a wireless mouse and keyboard? It would probably have to be significantly cheaper than a laptop to appeal to a lot of people though. I doubt $200-300 is going to cut it. But if I had a tablet that I used a lot, I would probably want a keyboard anyway. Some come with one. Adding a $30 bluetooth mouse and a $50 dock could be interesting (just making up numbers).

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your missing the point. What we should all be talking about is how this now the year of the Linux Desktop! about time!

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

You can already cast to a TV (at least with Android), and you can already pair a mouse and keyboard via Bluetooth. You don't need to use Bluetooth - you can also use USB OTG - I know for a fact that this works because I've done it for ha-has... a little pointer appears.

But people don't really do it very often, even though it is available right now for no added cost. I just don't see the market for a dock that replicates this, but to a fixed location. And if people desired this capability, they could do it right now using an OTB-capable charging dock (I have one, don't typically use the OTB part) which has a keyboard and mouse plugged in. For the monitor you can either cast to it or use a USB-to-HDMI adapter. I guess what I'm saying is I've never heard of anyone doing this on a regular basis even though it is already possible and fairly convenient.... the only thing missing is an automatic action to turn on the mirroring when the phone is slipped into the dock. The mouse and keyboard are already automatically detected.

Re:About time.

[nasch]

That's true, but doesn't the application have to support casting? And definitely the TV does, or you need another device to do it. That would probably cover almost everything most people want to do though.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

You can "mirror" the screen to the TV via casting. You can also run something like Sentio Desktop to run a full-fledged Desktop-like environment. The novelty wears off quickly :)

I think most people just cast things like YouTube to the TV or music to the speakers.

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

Yes, I carry the bluetooth mouse and keyboard in my backpack. No, I do not carry a monitor, the phone is perfectly fine as a monitor. I use it in landscape mode and prop it up. No dock in any of this. Works great, gets me my 90 WPS typing speed back.

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

there are a bunch of reasons why Smartphones/Phablets will always remain VASTLY inferior with what you can put together in a desktop or rack system, and will LIKELY remain VERY inferior with even what you can do in a laptop.

Nonsense, the only substantive limitation of a phone is not being able to open it up and add expansion cards and disks, iow, purely mechanical. Laptops have much the same restrictions. But you can use external peripherals for this if you like. There is really only one serious reason why phones are not commonly used as desktop replacements today: the OS is intentionally broken for that, to force you into the cloud and media/ad consumption.

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

Well it sounds like you are already all set and don't need a "Desktop" version of your phone. Again, that's my point - the market for this is tiny. You can already cast to a TV/monitor. You can already use corded or cordless keyboards and mice. You can already run Sentio Desktop if you want your phone to look like a Desktop computer. But frankly this sucks as a "desktop" unless you are doing trivial office tasks - or just typing up your screenplay or something. Coding, spreadsheets, video editing, photo manipulation and organizing all suck on a tiny screen. This is why even craptacular office PCs now come with a 19" monitor and "netbooks" grew up into 13" laptops.

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

Well it sounds like you are already all set and don't need a "Desktop" version of your phone.

And then you immediately talk about Sentio Desktop, which tries to make Android look like a desktop, implying that I do need a desktop. Thanks for pointing out the existence of Sentio, which undermines your argument (that I have no idea why you are making) but I am more than a little skeptical that it is possible to deliver a seamless experience of the type that a typical desktop provides, when implemented as an app and not as part of the Android libraries proper.

Color me unconvinced that this problem is solved, and color me unconvinced that there is no substantial population of users who want it solved.

Re:About time.

[Tough Love]

Excuse me, correction: "Sentio apps" are actually part of the Sentio desktop framework, not user-facing apps, so slight inaccuracy there. The other points stand, and more: why should I be forced to put up with in-app ads or extra upfront cost, probable spyware, proprietary lockin etc, beyond what Android already has, just so I can have functionality that Google smart people in their infinite and patronizing wisdom deny me, and which would certainly available if Android had community governance, actually acting in the interest of users?

Re:About time.

[MightyYar]

The point I was trying to make in my original reply to jonr was that a phone makes a terrible desktop replacement, especially for the uses he listed (compiling files and running a development environment). For that kind of use, you NEED a keyboard and - unless you want to go nuts - you need a big monitor... preferably two. Even laptops are less than ideal to develop on. So what we were talking about is a monitor or two, a dock of some kind, and a keyboard and mouse. You have steered the conversation to exclude the monitor. If you are happy with the 6" or whatever screen that you have, that's great - but it's not the context that my first comment was made in.

Re:About time.

[TheFakeTimCook]

there are a bunch of reasons why Smartphones/Phablets will always remain VASTLY inferior with what you can put together in a desktop or rack system, and will LIKELY remain VERY inferior with even what you can do in a laptop.

Nonsense, the only substantive limitation of a phone is not being able to open it up and add expansion cards and disks, iow, purely mechanical. Laptops have much the same restrictions. But you can use external peripherals for this if you like. There is really only one serious reason why phones are not commonly used as desktop replacements today: the OS is intentionally broken for that, to force you into the cloud and media/ad consumption.

Of COURSE that would be your assessment.

Ever hear the phrase "Just because you CAN do a thing, doesn't mean you necessarily SHOULD?"

That applies.

Re:About time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this what Canonical tried to do with their Ubuntu phone?

A step in the right direction

[gweihir]

After all, it is totally ridiculous to carry around powerful universal computers and restrict them to be used as a phone and phone-type app only.

Re:A step in the right direction

[omnichad]

Of course that could just mean you can get by with a cheaper, less-powerful phone. Spend the money on your upgradeable computer.

Re:A step in the right direction

[GuB-42]

The issue is more about the form factor : small screen, no keyboard, no mouse.
Even if my phone had all the capabilities of a full Linux PC, I don't think about any app that I would use that doesn't have a better adapted alternative on Android.

Attempts to address this issue with docks have all failed. If you want to stay mobile and do real work, the proper tool is a laptop. All solutions that involve a phone, or, to a lesser extent, a tablet, feel like a kludge.

Re:A step in the right direction

[Tough Love]

After all, it is totally ridiculous to carry around powerful universal computers and restrict them to be used as a phone and phone-type app only.

Actually, media consumption device, and most importantly, advertising media consumption device. Ridiculous to you, certainly, but not to the billionaires at Google.

Crouton anyone?

[TWX]

Isn't this just Crouton for Android?

Re:Crouton anyone?

[jaklode]

Baiscally

Devious

[Anonymous Coward]

Notice how its we'll allow you to run linux applications on a hardware device you already own.

Just like an old Motorola

[Anonymous Coward]

A truc?

Lessons from Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

So... How long until this feature is removed? Should there be a countdown from this announcement?

Re:Lessons from Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

If they are taking lessons from Sony, then they've come to two possible conclusions:

1. They should not do this, period.
2. If they do this, they must never undo this unless they want to be hit with a class-action.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Yo dawg.

[Anonymous Coward]

We heard you like Linux, so we put Linux in your Linux so you can run Linux in your Linux.

Re:Yo dawg.

[Thomas Charron]

And then, run Android inside your Linux on Linux running Linux.

Re: Yo dawg.

[Anonymous Coward]

So meta

Re:Yo dawg.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this mean we can douche out all that Google shite?

A room full of...

[jabberw0k]

VT-100's with no permanent seat assignments, worked perfectly well back in the days of horse-drawn computers. Ah, the reedy "beep" sounds!

Re:A room full of...

[torqer]

As someone who daily needs VT-100 emulation... I appreciate the imagery behind horse-drawn computers.

Re:A room full of...

[Anonymous Coward]

Siemens Step 7, single ass-drawn at best.

I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux used to be the core of my computing experience. I used it on my desktop, I used it on my laptop, I used it on my servers, and I used it on my phone (through Android).

But changes within the Linux ecosystem have been ruining the experience for me. Systemd brought me some serious reliability problems. While GNOME 2 was excellent, GNOME 3 has been terrible. Wayland has never worked on any system I've tried it on, and X is feeling long in the tooth. PulseAudio meant that my sound would often not work. Even Linux's filesystems have stagnated, with us still using the old and limited ext4 FS, while other OSes are getting excellent modern filesystems like ZFS.

Over time I've realized that I'm better off without Linux.

When I needed a new desktop and a new laptop, I just got a MacBook Pro. macOS gives me the UNIX-like environment that Linux gave me, but it's far more reliable and the macOS UI is so much nicer than any of the open source desktop environments. While I routinely had to waste hours fixing problems with Linux, especially problems involving systemd, macOS just works reliably pretty much all of the time. It's a no-fuss environment that makes me way more productive than I was with Linux.

All of my servers now run FreeBSD or OpenBSD. FreeBSD gives me the UNIX-like environment that Linux gave me, but it's not infected with systemd, and it's far more reliable. OpenBSD gives me extreme security in cases where that's most important. Both of them are a pleasure to work with, compared to the burden that I came to realize that Linux was.

When I needed a new phone I got an iPhone. Android was perhaps my least-worst Linux experience, but I also got tired of Google not providing updates only a couple of years after I got my Nexus 4 phone. I don't want to have to jailbreak or root my phone just to be able to upgrade! At least iOS supports devices several years old.

So I can't see why I'd want a phone running a traditional Linux distro. My life and computing experience has gotten much better the more that I've distanced myself from Linux. There are a lot of great alternatives out there these days. Maybe Linux was useful around 1999. But the computing world has changed, and Linux has fallen behind nearly all of its competitors.

Thanks for the effort, Samsung, but this product is useless to me.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

ty m$ shill.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[TheFakeTimCook]

And just like clockwork, the AC above was punish-modded by all the Fandroids and Linuxbots, because it praised Apple and denigrated Linux and Android.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

an ass kicking would be more appropriate. maybe grab you by the feet and bash him with your corpse.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[TheFakeTimCook]

an ass kicking would be more appropriate. maybe grab you by the feet and bash him with your corpse.

Big words coming from an ANONYMOUS COWARD.

Logon and say that, fucker!

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Tough Love]

...Linux's filesystems have stagnated, with us still using the old and limited ext4 FS, while other OSes are getting excellent modern filesystems like ZFS.

You may think that ZFS is excellent right up to the point you side-by-side it with Ext4, and discover it makes your desktop run like a tablet and hogs all the memory. And if/when ZFS blows up, there is no such thing as e2fsck to bail your ass out.

ZFS always sounds great, to hear people talk, who never side-by-sided it with anything else. In reality, it's a giant creeping ooze of a grandiose exercise in system bloatware. For one thing, there is no way a file system should ever inhale the volume manager inside itself, resulting in the file system team taking over the volume manager project except doing it worse. Just to pick one glaring flaw off the top of a huge rotting pile of design flaws.

The fact is, 99% of users who think they need ZFS's new shiny and are willing to trade away some performance and safety for it, will be better off just sticking with the tried and true, boring, efficient and reliable system they already have, that has hundreds of man years of development and debugging investing in it, way beyond what has gone into ZFS. Better off and less likely to lose their data.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Tough Love]

And just like clockwork, the AC above was punish-modded by all the Fandroids and Linuxbots, because it praised Apple and denigrated Linux and Android.

And, just maybe, because of being a lazy-ass cowardly AC. Just maybe.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[TheFakeTimCook]

And just like clockwork, the AC above was punish-modded by all the Fandroids and Linuxbots, because it praised Apple and denigrated Linux and Android.

And, just maybe, because of being a lazy-ass cowardly AC. Just maybe.

Don't try to. Kid a kidder: An anti-Apple AC does NOT get Punish-Modded on these here pages!

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Megane]

I think it was as much from the Apple hatebois as much as anything else. And it is now at +2. Looks like Slashdot's meta-moderation system has worked again.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

I use BTRFS for it's volume manager. It takes 20-30MB of memory. It provides me data integrity and redundancy (RAID-1). Performances are identical/better than EXT4 (don't know if that's because of RAID-1 though). I used EXT4 for years and concluded it was unreliable as long as the memory support is not 100% reliable (meaning always). e2fsck didn't keep me from losing my data after each filesystem crash.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

> I think it was as much from the Apple hatebois as much as anything else.

Nope. Systemd fanbois.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

Btrfs indeed has rougly the same features as ZFS, in much less memory.
But ZFS is considered mature, while with Btrfs there have been reports of data corruption.
Personally I love and use Btrfs for its checksums/snapshots/compression (and low ram compared to ZFS).
Maybe the bugs are in other features, such as multi-device or send/receive support, or maybe I'm (and you are) just lucky.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[TheFakeTimCook]

> I think it was as much from the Apple hatebois as much as anything else.

Nope. Systemd fanbois.

Well, that's funny; because if a systemd fanboi wants to see a SUCCESSFUL implementation of the systemd concept, they need look no farther than MacOS, which has been running under Apple's "launchd", which systemd is a bad clone of, since 2004!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

And what's even funnier, is that Apple OPEN-SOURCED launchd, but Apple Hate is SO strong that the idiot Linux Devs couldn't must accept Apple's gift to the FOSS "community", and so they developed their own borked-up "clone" of launchd... Systemd.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, that is funny. We laugh so we don't cry.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Megane]

"launchd", which systemd is a bad clone of

Quoted for truth. And it's 100% Pottering-free! The jelly must be strong in the systemd lovers. Maybe someone should do a launchd-based Linux distro, just to rub it in.

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[TheFakeTimCook]

"launchd", which systemd is a bad clone of

Quoted for truth. And it's 100% Pottering-free! The jelly must be strong in the systemd lovers. Maybe someone should do a launchd-based Linux distro, just to rub it in.

One of the BSD variants did exactly that. Can't remember exactly which one offhand.

And remember, YOU brought up Lord-God-King Pottering, not me, LOL!!!

Unfortunately, starting with MacOS Yosemite, IIRC, Apple seems to have Closed-Sourced launchd and launchctl, which frankly surprised me. But, I believe that earlier versions remain under the Apache License. So it should still be possible...

Re:I'm finding less use for Linux each day.

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the BSD variants did exactly that. Can't remember exactly which one offhand.

I'm pretty sure NextBSD (fork of FreeBSD) was going to use launchd. Judging by their website, that project appears to be effectively dead.

Well somebody caught the drift ...

[Qbertino]

... on how to catch the attention of the opinion leaders. Sort of like Apple with Mac OS X back in the day.

If they can get feasible convergence on its way, more power to them. It's just a shame that I find Samsung's phones and their UI so ugly.

But this might prompt other vendors to follow suit and fingers get convergence going. It's not that today's phones aren't powerful enough.

I wish

[JustNiz]

I wish they would just run Linux natively and dump the whole Android part.

Re:I wish

[thegarbz]

This to me sounds like the Worst Idea Ever (TM).

A few companies have put a huge amount of effort into making GNU/Linux usable on a smart phone and have failed spectacularly. You only wish for Linux on your smartphone because of altruism not because you have put any thought into how well in its current form it would actually work.

Re:I wish

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why? What big advantage does that give?

For one thing, it would get rid of all that Java overhead. And you could compile and install whatever Linux software you like without doing end-runs around the OS.

> Why do I care?

Only you can answer that question. :)

Re:I wish

[TheFakeTimCook]

I wish they would just run Linux natively and dump the whole Android part.

You do; but hardly anybody outside of this website would agree with you.
As shitty as Android is (and it IS shitty!), it's STILL more-optimized for being a "phone appliance" than anything that would run under stock Desktop Linux.

Re:I wish

[Anonymous Coward]

It's bitztream the autism-hating, custom EpiPen-hating, Musk-hating, Qualcomm-hating, Firefox tabs-hating, Slashdot editors-hating Slashdot troll!

Re:I wish

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux "desktop" on the smart phone probably fails for the exact same reason linux on the actual desktop fails. The whole thing is an inconsistent mess.

Maybe work on fixing linux on the actual desktop, get people adopting it on their actual desktop, then they might be excited about being able to use the same on their phone though a dock

Re: I wish

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno... I'd be willing to bet gnome3 would be fairly decent on a smartphone

Re:I wish

[Anonymous Coward]

yes and the baseband OS be FOSS too.

Re:I wish

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia did it in 2009 with the N900, and mine still lasts almost a week with the original battery. There interface is actually quite usable compared to more "modern" phones, with clever tricks to work around the missing multi-touch on resistive touch screens. You can install the official "are you sure?" tool to get full root access and the official repositories contains things like the GNU C compiler, which means almost any software can be installed from source code. The Windows phone is a niece market, there is room for more competitors to android.

Re:I wish

[Anonymous Coward]

You only wish for Linux on your smartphone because of altruism not because you have put any thought into how well in its current form it would actually work.

The word you're looking for is "autism."

Re:I wish

[JustNiz]

Because there's lots of Linux apps that I'd like to run on my phone.
And because then I can unistall all the pointless crapware and spyware that I dont even want on my phone.
But mostly because I could then finally get my phone to work how I actually want it to, not how Samsung/Google thinks I should change myself to fit their phone.

Re:I wish

[JustNiz]

Baloney.
If my phone ran Linux I could simply dump my work laptop/desktop and keep/do everything on my phone.

Re:I wish

[Tough Love]

If my phone ran Linux I could simply dump my work laptop/desktop and keep/do everything on my phone

If your Linux also includes support for all the phone functionality you currently get with Android. That's a pretty big if. Not rocket science, but practical obstacles are in the way, mostly put there by vested interests.

Re:I wish

[Tough Love]

As shitty as Android is (and it IS shitty!), it's STILL more-optimized for being a "phone appliance" than anything that would run under stock Desktop Linux.

That's a broad claim. One thing a stock Linux system can do is, run thousands or millions of user-installed programs. For example, when you run Kodi, it makes your Linux desktop look and act exactly like a DVR, because, ahem, Kodi is exactly the same software the DVRs run (on top of basically stock Linux, for that matter).

In case it isn't clear, what I just said is: run Android as an application, if you must.

Re:I wish

[TheFakeTimCook]

As shitty as Android is (and it IS shitty!), it's STILL more-optimized for being a "phone appliance" than anything that would run under stock Desktop Linux.

That's a broad claim. One thing a stock Linux system can do is, run thousands or millions of user-installed programs. For example, when you run Kodi, it makes your Linux desktop look and act exactly like a DVR, because, ahem, Kodi is exactly the same software the DVRs run (on top of basically stock Linux, for that matter).

In case it isn't clear, what I just said is: run Android as an application, if you must.

Yeah, that's a practical example! Kodi's a dumbass pseudo-embedded application, that you should be able to run on any 8 bit microcontroller from the 1980s. Impressive that Linux running on hardware easily few thousand times more powerful could pull that off, LOL!!!

Re:I wish

[thegarbz]

Yeah but you'd only be able to use it around a screen keyboard and mouse setup for you, which is kind of the point. You won't be doing shit on your phone while it acts as a phone, and you'll be lucky if it can even make phone calls. So why not carry a NUC around?

Re:I wish

[samwichse]

I mean, isn't it running natively?

The Android kernel is based on the Linux 4.4 LTS branch with extra goodies like wakelocks tacked on. This "distro" is just running the user-facing parts of a regular distro on the existing kernel.

Unless there's some kind of virtualization happening here?

Re:I wish

[Tough Love]

Ahem, I think you forgot just how ugly and limited everything was on 8 bit computers (you're drivelling a bit when you say microcontroller).

Re:I wish

[JustNiz]

I really meant GNU/Linux not just the Linux kernel.

Re:I wish

[TheFakeTimCook]

Ahem, I think you forgot just how ugly and limited everything was on 8 bit computers (you're drivelling a bit when you say microcontroller).

Oh no I'm not.

Re:I wish

[Tough Love]

Ahem, I think you forgot just how ugly and limited everything was on 8 bit computers (you're drivelling a bit when you say microcontroller).

Oh no I'm not.

Yes you are: "they decided to start with something simpler: a single-chip microcontroller. But the engineers soon realized that the microcontroller market was crowded with very good chips. Even if theirs was better than the others, they’d see only slim profits. Zilog had to aim higher on the food chain, and the Z80 microprocessor project was born". By the time it becomes a CPU a home computer, it's not called a mcrocontroller, it's called a microprocessor. By convention. Go ahead, define your own terminology, but don't be surprised if people look at you like you're wearing nose glasses on a dinner date.

Friggin awesome

[jwymanm]

This is pretty damn cool. This will bring about a large homebrew workforce that will only help Samsung sell even more sets. Great news. Makes me like mobile even more now.

Re:Friggin awesome

[redmid17]

I can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic.

Re:Friggin awesome

[Tough Love]

Serious, obviously. It just made up my mind to pick up an S8... I've been waffling about which way to go for my next phone for a while now.

GNU/Linux

[pD-brane]

Samsung has announced it will soon become possible to run actual proper Linux on its Note8, Galaxy S8 and S8+ smartphones -- and even Linux desktops. Yeah, yeah, we know Android is built on Linux, but you know what we mean.

So you mean GNU/Linux? Or a GNU/Linux distribution (often referred to as "Linux distro")?

Is it really that difficult to use the right terminology? Android is a modified Linux with components around them (I think -- I don't know Android that well). Then there is GNU/Linux, again Linux, but with a different userland around it, namely GNU. Especially when speaking about Android, GNU/Hurd, GNU/kFreeBSD and so on, it brings clarity if you call the system GNU/Linux.

One will not be 100% accurate, because there may be all kind of other modifications and additions that you would not always mention. But it is a hell of a lot more precise than just calling everything "Linux".

There are other important reasons why it should be called GNU/Linux, e.g., often iterated by Richard Stallman, it is technically and philosophically right, but here we have a very practical reason for calling it GNU/Linux: it disambiguates.

It is not difficult.

Re:GNU/Linux

[iamacat]

Aren't you late to the party? In 2017, you should be lecturing us on correct use of preferred gender pronouns and evils of Columbus Day and Cinco De Mayo. Although I am curious on overlap between language Nazi crowds now and then. Maybe there is a generational tradition too?

Re:GNU/Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

...evils of ...Cinco De Mayo...

But Cinco de Mayo makes brown people happy, so doesn't that make it a good thing by default?

Re:GNU/Linux

[omnichad]

why it should be called GNU/Linux, e.g., often iterated by Richard Stallman

Well of COURSE he would say that. He's behind GNU and would love his name associated with Linux. Don't assume his main push for technical accuracy is technical accuracy.

Re:GNU/Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

...evils of ...Cinco De Mayo...

But Cinco de Mayo makes brown people happy, so doesn't that make it a good thing by default?

Brown people really enjoy having ignorant whites pander to a caricature of their culture, in order to sell more salsa and Dos Equis and Corona, only to forget all about it the next day?

Re:GNU/Linux

[grumpy_old_grandpa]

Mod parent up. This is Slashdot, not Huffington Post. We should expect a higher level of accuracy in the details we know most about.

Regarding the labeling, Stallman cleared up that confusion decades ago, by insisting that the complete OS be called GNU/Linux. More recently, in 2011, he also made the Android naming clear:

"Android is very different from the GNU/Linux operating system because it contains very little of GNU. Indeed, just about the only component in common between Android and GNU/Linux is Linux, the kernel. People who erroneously think "Linux" refers to the entire GNU/Linux combination get tied in knots by these facts, and make paradoxical statements such as "Android contains Linux, but it isn't Linux". If we avoid starting from the confusion, the situation is simple: Android contains Linux, but not GNU; thus, Android and GNU/Linux are mostly different."

Source:
https://www.theguardian.com/te...

Re:GNU/Linux

[ChunderDownunder]

Which always confused me with Microsoft and Canonical's collaboration.

Windows Subsystem for Linux contains very little Linux and mostly GNU running atop an NT kernel.

Re:GNU/Linux

[Tough Love]

Android contains Linux, but not GNU; thus, Android and GNU/Linux are mostly different." -- RMS

No they aren't, they are only mostly different if you try to pretend that the kernel is a simple little component. It isn't, it is in fact a gigantic pile of literally hundreds of essential APIs with tentacles reaching into essentially every library and application on the device, whether the device is running Android on top, or libc, or whatever. And BTW, Android bionic is a gnu libc clone with very few differences at the API leve. It's really disingenuous to say it has nothing to do with standard Linux.

What Android offers is a bunch of libraries primarily (and arguably stupidly) oriented to Java that implement some occasionally clever and elegant but just as often often crappy and arbitrary interaction between components, and all the rest of Android that makes it work really well as a web device is basically the Linux kernel and copyleft-avoiding clones of standard Linux libraries. Android is really basically a piece of shit a bunch of guys pulled out of their collective asses, lacking security, performance and elegance. its only real superpower being, it's a bit less shitty than the Apple competition.

Nothing new...

[Excelcia]

This is nothing new. This has been very doable for a long time. I love how they pitch it... they are going to let it. This is just them trying to remove the incentive for rooting the devices. Appeal to the nerds who won't take no for an answer by tossing them enough of what they want to de-incentivize them. Samsung used to be the champion for letting you unlock and root your own device. Sad.

Re:Nothing new...

[iamacat]

There is also Debian noroot with some performance hit (it rewrite paths with strace). It's a shame that anything uses hardcoded paths in 2017. Ideally userland should run on Android/ChromeOS with at most a recompile and replacement "X" libraries that do native graphics.

Re:Nothing new...

[Anonymous Coward]

And then there's also Kevin Boone's KBOX project. I'm running the KBOX2 version (you can find it with the Wayback Machine) on my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G, which has a slide-out keyboard and so works pretty good.

Re:Nothing new...

[Anonymous Coward]

There are several Linux distros for the Nexus devices actually.

Here is an example:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation

At least!

[Anonymous Coward]

No more emulation!

Big deal...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple already lets you run any operating system you want. As long as it's iOS.

Re:Big deal...

[omnichad]

Even that's not true. Have you ever tried to downgrade to an older iOS release?

Re:Big deal...

[TheFakeTimCook]

Even that's not true. Have you ever tried to downgrade to an older iOS release?

That's a matter of policy (Code-Signing); not a technical restriction.

Re:Big deal...

[omnichad]

Which means that "Apple....lets you" is false. Maybe read what I replied to.

Re:Big deal...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because you can't install it after they stop signing it doesn't mean you can't run it. It will run just fine, if it's installed. Sheesh!

Re:Big deal...

[TheFakeTimCook]

Just because you can't install it after they stop signing it doesn't mean you can't run it. It will run just fine, if it's installed. Sheesh!

Tru dat!

Whatever version of Linux you're running...

[Anonymous Coward]

You need an explosion- and fire-proof bag to store your Samsung batteries.

Or just get an HP Elite X3

[Anonymous Coward]

Runs full Windows and using a bridge will connect a monitor, keyboard and mouse.

And since Linux is just...

[Anonymous Coward]

...a copy of Unix, might as well use the real thing and run iOS.

Re:And since Linux is just...

[Anonymous Coward]

iOS (or more accurately Darwin) is also a copy of Unix.

Or did you miss that part where Berkeley got a bunch of people to re-write AT&T's utilities so they could distribute their own free version?

Re:And since Linux is just...

[TheFakeTimCook]

...a copy of Unix, might as well use the real thing and run iOS.

Exactly!

Both iOS and macOS are Darwin-based at their Core.

Re:And since Linux is just...

[Anonymous Coward]

Darwin is just as much a clone of Unix as Linux is in a technical sense (not a branding sense). Berkeley and BSDi did the exact same thing that FSF and Linus did to create a free version of Unix.

Re:And since Linux is just...

[Anonymous Coward]

If iOS is Unix, I'll eat my hat.

After 8 long years, the Nokia N900 done right.

[kyubre]

Unfortunately, I just bought a Galaxy S7, so I'll probably sit this one out like I did with the N900 launch. Hopefully, it's still an option with my next upgrade cycle in 2 to 3 years, unlike the Nokia N900 that died on the altar of Redmond before I was ready to upgrade.

Re: After 8 long years, the Nokia N900 done right.

[Anonymous Coward]

I loved my n900 but it was not done properly. Not by a long shot.
It was clunky and difficult to use and the text size was diabolical.
Frig, I would hand the phone to 20 year olds and even thr couldn't read contact details.
I had to give up on it. The S2 that replaced it was like day and night. Usability vs features.
Go for usability every time.

Re:After 8 long years, the Nokia N900 done right.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still running after a few tweaks, and spare N900 parts are easy and cheap to find. People just don't know what they are throwing away. For example the N900 camera works much better in low-light or macro situations than a recent Samsung phone. It has 32Gb of storage space build in, that you can just scp files to/from, over wi-fi. It actually has all the special characters on the keyboard that you need for doing a bit of coding, etc.

Bloat

[merky1]

So, while I appreciate the theme of being able to run a full blooded Linux environment, it doesn't fix the fact that the basic OS provided by Samsung is complete crap and not worth keeping on the phone. Unnecessary processes and constant unwelcome intrusions are the main reason that I replace the OS. Adding a compatibility layer doesn't remove the underlying problem that Samsung's out of the box OS experience is craptacular and abusive.

I'd run a pixel over this any day.

Re:Bloat

[thegarbz]

It used to be, especially prior to KitKat, but it stopped being "complete crap" a long time ago and now is little more than personal preferences. Samsung's launcher is a bit weird, but easily replaced. Underneath though it's pretty much as Android as Pixel and seems to run just as well.

"Unnecessary processes" don't run. Hell half the shit people complain about are basic functionality of the phone. If you want a feature phone, get a feature phone instead of a phone with features. Most of the "unnecessary processes" are listed right in the marketing material and providing the phone without them would be just open up the opposite complaint: "I bought X why can't the phone do it out of the box! OMG class action!"

Whenever I feel like laughing at idiots it's always fun to read the 1 star reviews on the ant+ service helper on Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/... Idiots basically saying the equivalent of "But I never plug my ethernet cable in, why does my computer have an ethernet driver!"

Year of the Desktop!

[grasshoppa]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if 2018 turned out to be the year of the desktop because of mobile phone adoption?

Re:Year of the Desktop!

[Anonymous Coward]

But it'd be the Windows desktop. Now we can run wine and use all our standard windows application on our phone!

I don't need touch-based interfaces. I need a desktop UI that lets you zoom in/out and lets you easily toggle finger presses between right-clicking, left-clicking, and middle-clicking. Provide that and I'll have a vastly better mobile experience than any mobile apps.

Why no modern OQO?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think all the major players are only interested in creating a new environment, re-inventing the wheel because thats where the money is. I would still pay 2-4x more for a 'phone' if it could run Windows2k-Win8/Linux. Modern x86 chips are jsut as power efficient (perhaps more) as the ARM; They make hdmi stick PC's and everything is 'there' but no-one has put it in anything smaller than a 7" tablet(that has a screen).. stick it in a Droid3 form factor with an extra usb port.

Disappointed

[JohnFen]

I though at first that Samsung was unlocking the bootloader so you can install the OS of your choice.

But no, this is an app. Meh.

Re:Disappointed

[Anonymous Coward]

yup i'll still sideload a bootloader and rip what ever security they try to put in place , how hard is it to understand at the second you give up physical perimeter you dont own that box no more , if it's in my pocket in own it

Re:Disappointed

[thegarbz]

Disappointed? Why? When have you ever not been able to unlock the bootloader of a Samsung device other than maybe on the day of release?

Hell I used to preference Samsung phones because other OS images were so well supported on them. But now ... workphone. Sigh. Just as well they got a bit better at making software.

Re:Disappointed

[JohnFen]

Yes, all the Samsung phones can be cracked to unlock the bootloader (sooner or later). This is what I do. I was disappointed because I thought this might have indicated a change in attitude about these things from Samsung, but it's not.

Re:Disappointed

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I don't get it. Simple to unlock a Samsung device.

Fluff

[Anonymous Coward]

This gains nothing. If SAMSUNG controls whether or not you can put it on, then we have really gained nothing. It will still be sandboxed and limited by samsung, not by the owner of the device. You still won't be root of base level operating system.

Wrong type of company

[tomxor]

A few companies have put a huge amount of effort into making GNU/Linux usable on a smart phone and have failed spectacularly

Those companies were working at the problem from the hardest possible angle... if you are doing software only then you have to reverse engineer all the device drivers. If you ARE the hardware vendor on the other hand you have significantly more power over manipulating this effort (albeit at other cost).

Samsung have opted for the most economical option possible here by actually sidestepping that whole hardware support issue, but it's a pretty big compromise (kernel level virtualisation)... By using the same kernel that comes on the phone the device driver work comes free and they retain control over the primary system running on their hardware (yes I said their hardware), that last part is probably more important to them than you might realise.

What I and I imagine most OSS people want is for phone manufacturers to make their hardware more OSS friendly by helping people write drivers rather than letting us mostly scurrying around in the dark. We want freedom to port whatever the we want to our hardware (that's when it starts along the road towards become OUR hardware). We have just about gotten used to this on notebooks (albeit with a number of irritating flaky reverse engineered drivers for certain chipsets that are best avoided), but that has taken a long time. Most phone companies don't have the incentive to help or change here because many of the various chipsets integrated into that monolithic slab of silicone in the middle of it all are closed source which tend to come with closed source binary blob drivers. To even start to care, they would have to be very selective when building their hardware or make less economical deals to free up certain parts... This is exactly what purism does (I'ts only economically viable for them right now because it's their unique selling point), like them or not, they are the closest you will get to having a truly free choice of open source operating system on a phone unless you build one yourself.

Re:Wrong type of company

[thegarbz]

Sorry but you have that backwards. The spectacular failures were all the result of what the phone was trying to be and none at all to do with the hardware / drivers which basically were provided by partners as it was. Driver support was not some great difficulty, and it wasn't some basement neckbeard reverse engineering some half-arsed support to bake into the kernel.

GUI design is hard. GUI design for a touch is even harder. Adapting an existing GUI to a completely different form factor universally results in the train-wreak that was all the previous attempts at "bringing Linux to the phone". My Worst Idea Ever (TM) comment didn't even consider that there may be driver or hardware issues to overcome. But I guess we can call that My God There Was A Worse Idea OS (TM).

Re:Wrong type of company

[tomxor]

I think we are talking about completely different aspects, GUI design is not uniquely part of "having linux on a phone", sure it's important to consumers, but we are talking about running arbitrary linux distros, not another "phone OS" attempt to compete with the likes of android.

Re:Wrong type of company

[Tough Love]

GUI design is hard. GUI design for a touch is even harder. Adapting an existing GUI to a completely different form factor universally results in the train-wre[c]k...

What is so hard about adding optional, familiar window decorations to existing Android full-screen windows? Just do it like QT, those sunk research costs are so done years ago, there isn't a lot it doesn't already do in a perfectly elegant way. For one thing, let's have our fucking sensible keyboard shortcuts back, it's not like that essential functionality has to be reinvented or anything.

Re:Wrong type of company

[thegarbz]

Yes that's exactly what we are talking about, and no arbitrary linux distros are suited for the human interaction model of a smartphone.

Re:Wrong type of company

[thegarbz]

Nothing hard about it providing you don't expect any users to be able to use the software.

Re:Wrong type of company

[Tough Love]

Huh? I use window decorations now, don't you? I would use them, if they were available, on my tablet(s), just like I use them on a regular PC.

Is this a good idea?

[ilsaloving]

Considering that Samsung can barely get updates out for their devices as it is, how do they have the bandwidth to put out linux distros? The last Samsung device I owned was an S3, and based on my experience with it I will never own another Samsung device again. Trusting Samsung to support their devices is like the frog trusting the scorpion on it's back not to sting him.

Re:Is this a good idea?

[thegarbz]

Considering that Samsung can barely get updates out for their devices as it is, how do they have the bandwidth to put out linux distros?

What the fuck are you talking about when was the last time you use...

The last Samsung device I owned was an S3

ooooh. Yeah man, get with the times. Samsung have kept their devices up to date with security patches since the patching framework in Kitkat was released. Hell even the Galaxy S4 received updates this year.

The Librem 5 has them scared

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting... https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Re:The Librem 5 has them scared

[ChunderDownunder]

And Sailfish running on Xperia.

We do that with laptops (no assigned CITY)

[raymorris]

Our company does basically that, with laptops. Most people work from home most of the time, but I can go into any of the company's office buildings and find a seat. Of course I have to use my badge to get into the building.

Most people have a "home" office or cube they *normally* use, but you're not restricted to only using that one. If you feel like sitting by the window today, do so. I use "my" office once a week, working from home 4 days a week. When I'm not there (most of the time), someone visiting from Europe or wherever can use it.

It works pretty well for us.

VR + BT Keyboard w/ USB-C port

[xanthos]

This is what I want to see! Not for myself, but because it would be hilarious to see a room full geeks outfitted this way!

Programing on a 6in screen? No way! But...

[williamyf]

Checking a .c or .h file to clarify something, or checking and quick changing a config file, or checking a document or making a quick memo in Libreoffice, or quick answering an email in Thunderbird, or quick testing a website with desktop Mozila while conmuting or taking a break in the coffe shop... count me in!!!

the posibilites are endless.

It would be mighty fine that all my environment is with me all the time, and in my pocket, not in a magical cloud, were you live and die by the quality of the connectivity... and connectivity is not always so great...

With a good MDM, this could be great. You get to the office, dock to a 24 in (dual) Monitor setup, and booom! all the paper/doc/email/sap pushing is done from the phone, and backups go to the enterprise backup solution.

You get home, dock and boooom! balance+knox make sure that what you do in the work partition (like a late night email answer) stays in the work partition, and what you do in the home partition (say, erase the red eye and apply filters to the weekend pictures of the children and share them with gramma) stays in the home partition and gets backed up to your very own nas.

This may be golden for a great % of my workloads. Leaving the workstation only for simulators, VMs, and Games.

root baby root

[Anonymous Coward]

oh and i assume that samsungs who shrugs at providing root at android level is going to provide a sudoer account to actually make that linux distro usable ? not holding my breath

Score:-5, Pwned

[Anonymous Coward]

Witness BitZtream getting pwned!... twice.....three times!

Wake me when drivers r released and I get ful ctrl

[Anonymous Coward]

This is like a bad joke or something. Nothing more than a public relations stunt for the naive. You've gained zip by running a proprietary "open source" operating system on a proprietary "open source" base. The whole point and the benefit of running GNU/Linux is in the community and our ability to fix bugs, add features, and generally improve/control developments (and give users a real CHOICE, not just a clone of the status quo).

I'm sick and tired of being stuck on old underpinnings where there are security vulnerabilities and we (as in the community) can't fix the code. We can't improve the efficiency and even end up with less efficient code because of MORE bloat (ie running an OS on top of another OS or christ- almost the same OS in this case).

I've spent years getting sources released for chipsets and SoCs and its always like pulling teeth. It shouldn't take YEARS to get a full set of source code for everything from a single company on a single SoC or the drivers/firmware for a set of a companies particular chipset(s) (ie like USB wifi chipsets, etc). Nor should we have to reverse engineer anything to gain full control over our devices. F'c Samsung's publicity stunt.

fake news!

[Anonymous Coward]

And then the user-chosen linux desktop gets some kernel update that doesn't run on the original
layer provided on the samsung galaxy from 3 light years ago 'cause "buy a new one for new updates".

"endless" upgrade on mobile phones will only happen after nvidia has a ARM SoC w/ wifi, mobile-radio,
camera, HID sensors and all other crap that's needed and will install with a download from www.geforce.com
and "sh nvidia-mobile-soc.sh".

Well...

[Dmitri_Yuriescu]

Potentially "wow"

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

You never had an N900

[Kludge]

The N900 ran native Linux and it ROCKED.
I could compile and run just about any unix/X-windows program on that thing.
It had USB networking built in.
I could write apps using standard python libraries like gtk. You could add/modify GUI widgets with python scripts.
It was a Debian system that used standard repositories with thousands of apps.
Plus it made phone calls. It could make cell calls, voip calls, XMPP calls, all from the same app.
Yes, the average moron would not care about most of this stuff, but for anyone with any hacker cred, it ROCKED.

Re:You never had an N900

[thegarbz]

No I didn't and there was a good reason. The N900 was like a ugly girl who says yes to sex with a desperate 40 year old virgin. It ticked the boxes that make geeks get an uncontrollable erection. Unfortunately it also ticked the box as probably the single least user friendly and hardest to use phone on the market and to drive home the insult I'm including Windows Mobile 6 in that category.

A lot of people said Nokia let it down by dropping it, but the reality was in the sales figures. Its biggest letdown was Linux and the fact that it wasn't nicely optimised for that it was, a computer with a sub 4" screen and a horrific input method.

Already possible, since the first Android phone?

[schweini]

Am I missing something?

I could swear that I once installed and ran some version of Debian on the first Android Phone, the HTC Dream.
Obviously super slow, and IIRC, the display worked via VNC. Was a fun little thing to show off back in 2009, though!

SSH

[Anonymous Coward]

I just run SSH and remote in. Leaves for space for porn

So

[BitztreamNotARealNam]

How's life in the hypocrite lane?

Libre-m purism threat

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe this is in response to a possible threat that linux will take over the landscape as the current lockins are failing to keep up with "what people want" the way opensource could possibly hope to be.

Sure you might not get the incumbent/encumbered likes of Microsofts Office and the grind of google and it's best wishesium but ultimately people more and more want to be untethered from the DRM tracking lockin bs as it becomes publicly knowledgable that moving forward it is less of a hassle when free to roam then jailed to a walled garden.

More info on blog

[Anonymous Coward]

More info about how this works here - http://developer.samsung.com/w...