Catalonia Declares Independence; Spain Approves Central Takeover Of Region (npr.org)

Readers share a report: Lawmakers in Catalonia have declared independence from Spain in a historic vote that prompted protests and celebration. The government in Madrid, vowing to halt any would-be secession, has authorized the Spanish prime minister to take over direct rule of the previously semi-autonomous region. The vote in the Catalan Parliament comes nearly a month after the region held a referendum on independence, over Spain's objections. The regional president then declared his support for separation from Spain but also called for talks with Madrid, in an ambiguous speech. Spain's central government, promising to crack down harshly if the declaration was real, told the region's leaders to make up their mind: Yes or no? Independence or not? Now it's final: Independence, Catalonia said.

Comments

Re:Support Right to Independence

[luca]

Sure, we all saw how well the EU "protection" worked in, e.g., Greece (or everywhere else).

It's a complicated thing

[Baron_Yam]

We kind of have some experience with this in Canada... the problem will be the separatists who want full autonomy (fine) will not care if they drag non-separatists with them (not fine), and likely won't even respect the concept of parts of their region separating from them to stay with Spain (also not fine).

Spain kind of has a responsibility to the citizens of the region who DON'T want to go (even if there's only one of them, because they don't have a lot of responsibility for those who are at least technically traitors due to acts of sedition).

And if you magically get all that sorted out, there's still the endless bickering over how to divide up Spain - borders, debt share, citizenship rights, trade agreements, government pensions... every single item on the list (including bajillions of items I've likely overlooked) has the potential to bring the two sides to civil war.

Re:It's a complicated thing

[rhazz]

So what you are saying is no matter how many people want to leave, as long as you crack enough heads open during the vote to keep people away from the polls, you can always claim a minority want to leave?

No, he is saying that unless the vote is fair and open and legally legitimate, there will be people who don't bother to vote because they've been told that the vote is irrelevant. Anything else is essentially just taking a survey from a biased group.

Spanish Civil War, part 2

[jfdavis668]

Many of the driving forces involved were the same ones that started the Civil War in 1936. Just without the fascists this time.

Re:nasty situation

[jez9999]

While I generally support self determination for geographic regions the law in Spain does seem to make the declaration of independence illegal.

Could someone explain this one to me? So you support independence unless the mother country passes a law declaring it illegal lol. Not exactly difficult for the mother country to do that, is it? In fact almost all countries have laws against secession. The Scottish referendum was an oddity (and frankly I still don't know why Cameron even allowed it).

Re:Support Right to Independence

[alvinrod]

Existing EU member states can veto membership proposals for new countries, so there's no chance Catalonia would get in unless Spain withdrew. This won't even make it to that point though as Spain won't legally recognize the succession as it wasn't even close to legal and there aren't such an overwhelming majority of Catalonians who want to be independent to make a war possible.

Re: Support Right to Independence

[halivar]

The Articles of Secession disagree with you. Maybe the original authors should have consulted you first?

Re:Support Right to Independence

[Oswald McWeany]

I fully support the right of any region to decide who rules them (if decided by fair and free referendum).

All members of my census block have voted unanimously to succeed from the country and immediately cease any and all tax payments to local and national taxing authorities.

Thanks for your support.

Duely noted- you shall receive a demand for $100,000 as your share of the national debt; plus several million in legal work to separate our two countries. Expect to produce a visa when reentering the country, failure to do so will be seen as an invasion- we shall retaliate by taking your land and putting you in a military prison. Because we have no trade agreement with you- you shall pay a major tariff on any goods you move between our two nations.

Re:This is Why Geographic Income Concentration is

[Anonymous Coward]

Apart from the fact that they were a nation of their own once, have a separate cultural identity and language that was suppressed via fascist dictatorship, your correct, it's just a group of rich people gathering together to screw the poor.