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Facebook Ends 'Dark Posts' -- All Ads Will Be Visible To The Public (seattletimes.com)

"Under pressure in advance of hearings on Russian election interference, Facebook is moving to increase transparency for everyone who sees and buys political advertising on its site," reports the Associated Press. Here's the official announcement from Facebook's "VP of ads" : Starting next month, people will be able to click "View Ads" on a Page and view ads a Page is running on Facebook, Instagram and Messenger -- whether or not the person viewing is in the intended target audience for the ad. All Pages will be part of this effort, and we will require that all ads be associated with a Page as part of the ad creation process... We know how important it is to our community that we get this feature just right -- and so we're first rolling it out in only one country. Testing in one market allows us to learn the various ways an entire population uses the feature at a scale that allows us to learn and iterate... We will start this test in Canada and roll it out to the U.S. by this summer, ahead of the U.S. midterm elections in November, as well as broadly to all other countries around the same time... During this initial test, we will only show active ads. However, when we expand to the U.S. we plan to begin building an archive of federal-election related ads so that we can show both current and historical federal-election related ads.
Facebook "will verify political ad buyers in federal elections, requiring them to reveal correct names and locations," adds the Associated Press, noting that the effort is "likely meant to head off bipartisan legislation in the Senate that would require social media companies to keep public files of election ads and try to ensure they are not purchased by foreigners."

In addition, Facebook insists that "For political advertisers that do not proactively disclose themselves, we are building machine learning tools that will help us find them and require them to verify their identity."

68 comments

  1. awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't get me wrong; they need to open up about the politics, but don't you think it's really awesome the way that they use this as an excuse to demand more identity information about people, even if it is just those "involved" in politics and those "mistakenly thought to be" involved in politics. It's almost like a car thief getting to agree he'll only take cars from tax-dodgers and he'll pay of their taxes whilst keeping the rest as a fee in future. If you are going to be a true criminal, go big. They'll certainly make you CEO and they might even make you President in the long run.

    1. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Well for the most part it is about preventing regulations from being applied as a gut response to a problem.
      If a company is able to show a good will attempt at fixing the problem themselves then chances are they wont have an agency telling them how to do something.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      While I am all for anonymity for people on the internet. I am against it for corporations and states, for the same reason I am against treating corporations as people.

      What possible legitimate use could someone have for anonymously posting a targeted advertisement?

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    3. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by OYAHHH · · Score: 0

      The hypocrisy is the troubling element for me. So a political advertiser, basically someone who wants to espouse a position, must show his papers while it is a crime against humanity for a person who actually casts a vote to be required to show papers?

      --
      Caution: Contents under pressure
    4. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not hypocrisy in any way.

    5. Re: awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They might, but the people chose not to elect Hillary.

    6. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not hypocrisy in any way.

      True, but apart from that he has a good point.

    7. Re: awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are a fucking idiot

    8. Re: awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good point for sure. People canâ(TM)t break free of working contradictions. Weâ(TM)re too greedy.

    9. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hypocrisy is the troubling element for me. So a political advertiser, basically someone who wants to espouse a position, must show his papers while it is a crime against humanity for a person who actually casts a vote to be required to show papers?

      Well the advertising has been shown to be abused in horrifying ways. The pizzagate mess was one of them. The fake news story suggested some kind of child sex ring ran out of the basement of a pizza retailer. Flynn's son apparently retweeted it, or at least his sons account. There were various other examples.

      Basically the moral of the story is you can't have nice things if they are abused like this. The voting issue, otoh, is mostly garbage. There is no proof of any significant number of false ballots. Otoh, I'm willing to go with requiring ID, but the ID must be free, obtainable same day with reasonable effort, and should not be required to be frequently updated.

      In fact, I'll go even further than no proof. The Trump crew is using the lies about votes to grab all kinds of valuable voter intel, so they will be able to microtarget better, and if needed really fake votes or at least selectively figure out where to encourage purges of voter rolls of undesirables. It is unsurprising. Most of the things Trump says someone is guilty of are things he is guilty of.

    10. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PIzzagate is real. Not fake news.

      Soon to be very very real news, son.

    11. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Most people who use FaceBook assume that they are the owners of the experience and their data regardless of the reality. The use of FaceBook is taken as an unalienable right. Zuckerburg and team better wake up because this sentiment that their users hold is going to exert serious political pressure on them given an incident or if something happens to jar this sentiment. My hope is that some backlash does happen and FaceBook is forced to provide an API to users that will let other innovators and competitors easily move people off of the centralized, dangerous, exploitative scam that FaceBook is and is becoming. It would be nice to see FaceBook and other companies struggling to give users control over their data instead of the opaque data orgy that is currently unfolding.

      I picture users being able to enable or disable access to their data and getting compensated by companies (with crypto-currency) who bid for certain levels of access or classifications--all in a decentralized way. FaceBook is awesome, not because it is special tech, it is not, but because of all of the users that have joined and use the platform. It is too big and important to be centralized and "owned" by a single entity.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    12. Re: awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They might, but the people chose not to elect Hillary.

      Can I, the original poster, second the other AC. "you are a fucking idiot", not because you think Hillary is a criminal; she may well be; but because you imply that stopping Hillary stopped a criminal getting into the Whitehouse.

    13. Re: awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Similar to the way the payment card industry created PCI-DSS because their industry was about to get gov't regulated.

    14. Re:awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      No not at all. If you are going to communicate a position, especially if such a position is expecting use to vote a particular way, which it is to changed how we are govern, then we need more information about such position. You can't anonymously run for president, why should you anonymously advertise who you are pushing to be president. Voting needs to be anonymous, to prevent a backlash from the community, for a choice based on the information you have. Vs trying to give such information, if lies or an attempt to polarize a group, is a way to force the community to backlash against their opponents. I have freedom of speech, which has rules that prevents the government from criminalizing me for my words, however it doesn't mean what I say will not have consequences.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    15. Re: awesome - avoiding regulation as a power grab by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      In general if an industry can self regulate themselves, and work for the general public interest without having the government regulate them, it is a good thing all around. That doesn't mean that we should label them good guys, and stop all vigilance towards them. But the bureaucrats who make up these regulations, have a tenancy to go overboard in some areas and lax in others, Allowing the bigger organizations to take advantages of the loopholes, while the smaller ones are crushed in red tape.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. Not for long by t4eXanadu · · Score: 1

    And within a week of rolling out the test case in Canada, someone will find out to game it and purchase fake ads under a fake name that Facebook will verify as real. I'm pretty confident enterprising Russian operatives will have no problem getting around the new system. All they need to do is find some Americans to act as a front, wittingly or unwittingly. All those stolen identities from the Equifax hack could come in handy here.

    1. Re:Not for long by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      But if you can tie the fake ads to a particular user, it will be easy to see they are a shill/agent/troll/whatever.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    2. Re:Not for long by epine · · Score: 1

      And within a week of rolling out the test case in Canada, someone will find out to game it and purchase fake ads under a fake name that Facebook will verify as real.

      When is the last time you participated in a discussion thread by offering a constructive path forward?

      You entire post amounts to "security is difficult". Seriously? That's the dumbest thing I've heard since Trump say "who knew health care could be so complicated?"

      So I guess your path forward is to repeal and replace whatever is presently being done, only you're 99% vague on what "replace" would finally amount to (spoiler alert: something else difficult and imperfect), and I'm not sure you're 100% up to speed on the repeal part, either.

      You don't even get around to completing your thought. Security is difficult therefore ...? Therefore what? Therefore we should all pick up our toys and go home?

      Another field of human endeavour with no perfect solutions: romance. Romance is supposed to cure this kind of shallow moaning. Unfortunately, since we invented the Internet, too many people are not even getting to first base. You wouldn't think that romance was something that young adults could find their way around (in large numbers), but evolution has apparently been proved wrong. What can evolution possibly do? It could double the voltage, but then how could we possibly build enough prisons to hold all the sex offenders that would surely result.

      Maybe evolution should simply admit that this is an impossible problem and give up. I'm not so sure that's a great idea myself, but to its credit it does have the ring of an idea you've never found personally unsatisfactory, by what I can glean from your post.

    3. Re:Not for long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if you can tie the fake ads to a particular user, it will be easy to see they are a shill/agent/troll/whatever.

      Will it?

      *Post paid for by Honesty In Advertising Totally Not a Russian AC, LLC of Boston, MA

    4. Re:Not for long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The absolute state of US education. Half the population don't "believe" in evolution, and the other half have no idea how it works.
      Evolution can't "give up" because it's not a guided process. Selection pressure simply exists, and individuals are selected against until the population tends towards a maxmia (or local maxima) for a particular attribute.

      Here's an idea. Start treating people are important, and corporations as just tools. Tweak the anti-trust and privacy legal framework until facebook DIES, and nothing as cancerous can ever grow back in its place.

    5. Re:Not for long by shayd2 · · Score: 1

      A real person such as NotARussian@gmail.com ?

    6. Re:Not for long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And within a week of rolling out the test case in Canada, someone will find out to game it and purchase fake ads under a fake name that Facebook will verify as real. I'm pretty confident enterprising Russian operatives will have no problem getting around the new system. All they need to do is find some Americans to act as a front, wittingly or unwittingly. All those stolen identities from the Equifax hack could come in handy here.

      I see you have applied the talking points about guns to this. Because you cannot prohibit every bad thing that occurs, doesn't mean you shouldn't stop the bad things you can prohibit. After all a lot of crime goes unsolved, so should we quite investigating crime?

      With the gun argument you have, "But cities banning guns have many gun deaths. Therefore bans are useless." Who knew that criminals were familiar with forms of transportation. The talking point is invalid. If the laws were universal and you collected all the old guns, you would eventually reach a point where the laws did work, and likely sooner than later. There are many countries in the world with much lower gun crime, some even have a lot of guns. Simply do what they do and you will, logically, get similar results.

      What facebook is doing is a starting point, but we do need laws in place so they don't all migrate to facebook's evil twin. Over time they will likely have to get more clever to defend against new attacks. That is life. Either you put in the effort to protect, well, truth, and, well democracy, or you don't.

      I rather expect we can see well from history and around the world what occurs in that case.

  3. Just federal election ads, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure these same people certainly won't operate at the state level....

    1. Re:Just federal election ads, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, just in the US? I guess the CIA's still clear to tamper with the elections of other countries. Nothing hypocritical about that, right?

    2. Re: Just federal election ads, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zing zing!

  4. Thanks, Facebook, for facilitating a Russian coup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    America needs to flush the toilet on this turd of a company

  5. Foiling the Russians by applying their tactics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People have a right to speak anonymously. I hope for swift and robust circumvention of this crap.

    Oh well, expect a billion "John Smith"s to sign up...

    1. Re:Foiling the Russians by applying their tactics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People have a right to speak anonymously

      Citation? Mmm, k, thx.

    2. Re:Foiling the Russians by applying their tactics by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Citation? Mmm, k, thx.

      Something like this? Or do you mean more generally?

    3. Re:Foiling the Russians by applying their tactics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *sigh* You're right. Rights are bullshit without the gun to back them up.

  6. I long for when Facebook becomes MySpace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously. Just like how I long for when Google becomes AltaVista. There needs to be new players otherwise we're doomed.

  7. Fantastic. by Weaselmancer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nothing like closing the barn doors after the horses leave.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:Fantastic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's always the next set of horses.

    2. Re:Fantastic. by makomk · · Score: 1

      The whole "dark posts" angle in the press mainly just seems to have been media fearmongering and spin anyway, an attempt to distract from how badly they fucked up with the election. The trouble with dirty tricks with dark posts is that people still end up seeing them - including people who don't support you and will take great pleasure in catching any mischief you might attempt - and there's no way around this because targetting is never perfect. (The only candidate who tried anything interesting in this area was Ted Cruz and his campaign failed miserably.)

  8. All those lost advertiser dollars. by BrookHarty · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Youtube, Facebook, twitter, and other social media companies are turning down advertising money because of politics.

    Conservatives get the bland "purple bed" ads, and conservative groups get ads turned off or demonetized because these corporations are pushing a social idea over an economic one.

    How about allowing the NRA, gun accessories, sport fishing, Christian services, ACLJ, right-wing news, etc to sell advertising. These people are who the advertisers really want and will pay extra for. So when I hear that "not advertiser-friendly" we know that's code for "not our kinda of people" and is just more tribalism in the silicon valley mindset.

    After a while, these conservative groups will have to start companies to compete against silicon valleys attempt to exclude them. Same goes for customers, after a while. A certain customer base will realize they are being actively targeted or even avoided for political reasons.

    So while I think its nice Facebook is trying to have disclosure in advertising, I find it dubious with their history of promoting their social agendas. This is just to appease the public and politicians with the ongoing facebook/Russia advertising investigation.

    1. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crazy libtard conspiracy theories. There was no Russian interference in the election. Censor Trump haters and media trolls!

    2. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How about allowing the NRA, gun accessories, sport fishing, Christian services, ACLJ, right-wing news, etc to sell advertising.

      What exactly would be Christian services, and why would anyone want to buy any?

      "Crucifixion? Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each."

      So while I think its nice Facebook is trying to have disclosure in advertising, I find it dubious with their history of promoting their social agendas.

      This will develop into being most problematic when Zuckerberg announces his candidacy for the President of the United States of America.

      Hmmm . . . will Facebook be counted as one big political advertisement . . . ?

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    3. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it's cool to have a hate-boner for Christians but they do provide a lot of social services, e.g. help lines and groups for suicidal or depressed people, counseling, homeless shelters, paramedics, disaster relief, and so on.

    4. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not exactly the people most advertisers find valuable..

    5. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by theurge14 · · Score: 1

      "How about allowing the NRA, gun accessories, sport fishing, Christian services, ACLJ, right-wing news, etc to sell advertising."

      I get enough of that crap shared from my family already.

    6. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hang on, what Christian services aren't being advertised? I see Christian Mingle ads, and like farmer-only dating sites, it's not even targeted at me.

    7. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      What exactly would be Christian services, and why would anyone want to buy any?

      It is precisely this level of unsophisticated provincialism and lack of empathy that led to Hillary losing. It is not just acceptable, but fashionable to publicly express one's total ignorance in such a manner. Look at all these respected journalists express surprise, dismay, and a total lack of understanding that Hillary lost. They even admit it: "I geniunely do not understand America."

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    8. Re: All those lost advertiser dollars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Won't this just result in shifting tactics? How do you define a political ad? What if I don't name a candidate or a party, but it's just about an issue. More abstractly, about an idea? If it's based on who's paying, why not have private donors buy ads instead of them funding the campaign directly? If I'm in Russia (or other boogeyman country) am I blocked from buying any ads because it might indirectly shift someone's political opinion? What stops a Russian citizen from having a proxy in the US buy the ad? It seems like these are all easily circumvented rules.

    9. Re:All those lost advertiser dollars. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In case you hadn't noticed, there are some thriving right-wing news sites out there. And last I checked, they carry ads.

      The ads that they carry aren't particularly offensive (to me, speaking as a European socialist). Some of what appears on Facebook is far worse.

      Which makes me think that we're *not* talking about "NRA, gun accessories, sport fishing, Christian services" etc. There are venues that are happy to cater to those demographics, and within themselves they're perfectly decent, reasonable people. But when they go into a more mixed environment, the trolls come out. What Facebook needs is a way to identify and isolate those trolls.

  9. Anyone else read that as by waspleg · · Score: 1

    VP of AIDS?

  10. Multiple Ad Impressions on One Page! Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...people will be able to click "View Ads" on a Page and view ads a Page is running on Facebook, Instagram and Messenger -- whether or not the person viewing is in the intended target audience for the ad.

    And all advertisers will be billed for these views and stats will be padded. Increasing ad revenue, while appearing to care.

    Pretty sly fuckers.

  11. How about THIS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and so we're first rolling it out in only one country.

    And may I suggest that that country be the newly formed independent country-state of Catalonia.

    Nothing against being the testbed, now is there? At least it is too soon or too early for the Russians to be their enemy.

  12. Why am I seeing this add? by Filter · · Score: 1

    An awesome transparency feature would be a button explaining why you were targeted for this ad.

    --

    "better ways of doing things eventually just replace the inferior things" - Linus Torvalds 09-08-07

    1. Re:Why am I seeing this add? by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      You have that now, although you have to select to hide the ad first.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
  13. Why show one ad when you can show five? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why bill only one advertiser for a space when you can bill as many as you have?

    Sly trick.

  14. what is "political"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what if i buy $100,000,000 worth of advertising for a corporation or product that is owned by someone else who directly supports political advertising?

    you can't fix this. zark fuckerberg is an incompetent boob.

    you're all idiots.

    1. Re:what is "political"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything is political. Everything.

    2. Re:what is "political"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So every single ad must be transparent

  15. A reason to click View Ads? by GrahamJ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Presumably the reason there wasn’t a View Ads button before is that they know no one would click it. Now that they’ve generated a reason to do so, I wonder if the view will count as a proper ad view - and doubly so for people who were not targeted.

    If it counts for targeted people then this could be viewed as a way to increase ad traffic for FB. If it counts for non-targeted people I doubt advertisers would like that very much. Thus the right answer would seem to be to make these views not count.

    But then could Pages link to their own View Ads page to get hits they don’t pay for?

    *grabs popcorn*

  16. how about actually vetting advertisers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and clearly displaying the name of the advertiser in the ad itself?

  17. Re:WHO CARES by Shogun37 · · Score: 1

    You aren't the target, either for "fake news" or the proposed "solution." The self-centered snowflakes who can't make up their minds what to have for dinner, without checking on social media, are. Sad part is, these people vote and have children. Those who have a spine, two operating brain cells, and realize other people are not just in our heads, know to fact check and avoid known bad actors. Y'know, the kind of people getting kinda hard to find nowadays. Chill out, just sit back and watch the world burn.

  18. Never by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    "Starting next month, people will be able to click "View Ads"

    Why would anybody do that?
    I'd click on a button saying:" Never see any ads in your life again" but certainly not on one saying "View ads".

  19. Odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hilary spent a billion dollars and lost because of a $150,000 ad buy. Interesting.

  20. Ads will not be visible to the public by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

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    Ads/script/malware rob speed/security/privacy/bandwidth.

    Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).

    Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!

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  21. regulate them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm COMPLETELY opposed to giving Facebook any leeway here whatsoever. They were a platform for swaying the US election. If that isn't a textbook case for requiring regulation, nothing is. They should be subjected to EXACTLY the same regulations re: political ads as tv and radio. If it's a political ad, the sponsor's name has to be CLEARLY identified. Not "available if some tech-savvy person happens to decide to click a button and check out the code underneath the page, where the sponsors will be listed in coded binary lolz".

  22. Don't care..... by MerlTurkin · · Score: 1

    I'm not on facebook.

    1. Re:Don't care..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Promise that you are.

    2. Re:Don't care..... by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

      Facebook as a whole profile of you, all your friends, connections, websites you visit, what you purchased, etc, their cookie track everything you do.
      Once you will want to open a FB account, they will show you all your friends and you will get very targeted ads.
      But you are being tracked, don't worry :)

      --
      "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
  23. Need this at all levels, not just federal by Striikerr · · Score: 1

    It's interesting to note the actual phrasing as it only mentions federal elections but not state elections..

    "Facebook "will verify political ad buyers in federal elections, requiring them to reveal correct names and locations,""

    This needs to be done for all elections because state level elections are extremely important as well..