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How Data Science Powered the Search for MH370 (hpe.com)

"In the absence of physical evidence, scientists are employing powerful computational tools to attempt to solve the greatest aviation mystery of our time: the disappearance of flight MH370." Slashdot reader Esther Schindler shared this article from HPE Insights: Satellite communications provider Inmarsat announced it had found recorded signals in its archives that MH370 had sent for another six hours after it disappeared. The plane had been aloft and flying for that whole time -- but where had it gone? As Inmarsat scientists examined the signals, they saw that what they had was not data such as text messages or location information. Rather, the signals contained metadata: information about the signal itself. This was recorded as the satellite automatically contacted the plane's communications system every hour to see if it was still logged on. Bafflingly, whoever had taken the plane hadn't used the satcom system to communicate with the outside world, but had switched it off and then on again, leaving it able to exchange hourly "pings" with the satellite. Some of the metadata related to extremely subtle variations in the frequency of the signal. "We're talking about changes as big as one part in a billion," says Inmarsat scientist Chris Ashton.

Nobody had tried to use this kind of data to try to locate an airplane before. At first, Ashton's team didn't know if the attempt would work. But painstakingly, over the course of weeks, the team figured out how the movement of the plane, the orbital wobble of the satellite, and the electronics within the satcom system all interacted to create the data values that had been received. "We had to create the model from scratch," Ashton says. Their work revealed that the plane had flown into the remote southern Indian Ocean. They didn't know where exactly. But since there are no islands in that part of the world, it was impossible that anyone could have survived. For the first time in history, hundreds of people were declared legally dead based on mathematics alone.

Then mathematician Dr. Neil Gordon led a team from the Defense Science and Technology Group "to extract a path from a subset of the Inmarsat data called the Burst Timing Offset. This measured how quickly the aircraft responded each time the satellite pinged it, and was used to determine the distance between the satellite and the plane." They ultimately generate "a probabilistic 'heat map' of the plane's most likely resting places using a technique called Bayesian analysis. These calculations allowed the DSTG team to draw a box 400 miles long and 70 miles across, which contained about 90 percent of the total probability distribution.

60 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. Very userful by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Their work revealed that the plane had flown into the remote southern Indian Ocean. They didn't know where exactly."

    Amazing stuff.

    1. Re:Very userful by fermion · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The problem with fake science is that reporters state supposition as fact even when the data suggests it is not, and scientists hang onto to their 90% confidence level even when data suggests there is no such thing.

      This is an old story, and I think the analysis has shown it to be more conjecture that a real model. There is simply too many assumptions that need to be made, the variables are too complex.

      The analysis was interesting, and if it had worked would have a great feat of data analysis. But over a year ago drift analysis of the wreckage indicated that any probably location was nowhere near the IMSAT estimated locations.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    2. Re:Very userful by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2

      The funny thing is everyone knows that the plane went down in the ocean but don't know where exactly.

      Everyone except those that look at the alternate interpretations of the same data.

      Again, if the data analysis had actually led to something that would be one thing; but it hasn't. There's still only a high likelihood that MH370 ended in the Indian Ocean. And yes - I'm aware of the components found; consider that if if it went on the Northern Arc (again - a path predicted by the data) that it would have been in the interest of parties to make it look like it went on the Southern Arc by giving some evidence. Conspiratorial? Yes; but until the plane is actually found we have to consider all possibilities that fit the findings.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    3. Re:Very userful by sycodon · · Score: 3, Funny

      CNN is still looking.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    4. Re:Very userful by mikael · · Score: 1

      How big is the area? 400 x 700 square miles. How big is the aircraft in miles (73 meters x 4 meters = 0.043 miles x 0.0024 miles). Simplifying the shape of the aircraft to a box 73 meters x 73 meters, and assuming that these are aligned in a regular grid, then there are 100,000,000 possible grid squares. Submersible sonar systems can scan up to 10,000 meters, but they trade resolution for depth. but there are very few of them.

      I do wonder whether weather satellites over the Indian ocean would have picked up a contrail from the aircraft. Researchers were able to measure the difference in cloud cover on Earth during 9/11, when all the flights were grounded. Systems like Meteosat or Russia's Elektro-L.

      --
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    5. Re:Very userful by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Drift analysis relies on the average value of year's worth of estimated currents and winds. The satellite data analysis relied on precisely known satellite positions and the speed of light (which is also precisely known). My money is on the satellite analysis being more accurate.

      But until the plane is actually found, there's no point arguing which is correct. We can't draw any conclusions until the plane is found. And it probably will never be found. Even if the search area indicated by the satellite signals is accurate, finding it there was always going to be a long shot (after the pingers stopped after 30 days). Given the relative sizes of the plane and the search area, finding a needle in a haystack is child's play by comparison. This is like trying to find a needle in field of haystacks.

      If they wanted to test the accuracy of their satellite analysis, they should be running it on planes on regular flights. They can calculate a plane's position at certain times based on similar satellite ping times, then check it against the plane's actual flight path. Do it enough times and you can figure out just how accurate the methodology is.

    6. Re:Very userful by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      400 x 700 square miles

      2800 quartic miles?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re: Very userful by Jesus+H+Rolle · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is like trying to find a needle in field of haystacks.

      Use a really big magnet.

      Technology makes things easier.

    8. Re:Very userful by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      "draw a box 400 miles long and 70 miles across"

      where did the 700 come from?

    9. Re:Very userful by brindafella · · Score: 1

      I have attended three long-form talks by Dr Neil Gordon, and some others involved. He is always the most compelling speaker. I have followed up in one-on-one discussions, at least twice. This effort has been a hugely consuming effort for most, and there is an 'answer' to where MH370 is: It is MOST likely to be in the next-most-probable statistical area, currently to the north-east of the last-most-likely area. Read the 'Full' report and get the picture. https://www.atsb.gov.au/public...

      --
      Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
    10. Re: Very userful by ls671 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Last time I tried, I couldn't grab aluminum with a magnet.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    11. Re: Very userful by jabuzz · · Score: 5, Informative

      I can. Just need to induce an electric current in it, and bingo. They are known as Eddy Current Separators, and are used extensively to separate non ferrous metals from recycling waste, usually after removing the ferrous metals first using a magnet.

      Where I live we put all our metal and plastics in the same bin, because the metal can be separated from the plastic with ease automatically.

    12. Re:Very userful by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      If they wanted to test the accuracy of their satellite analysis, they should be running it on planes on regular flights. They can calculate a plane's position at certain times based on similar satellite ping times, then check it against the plane's actual flight path. Do it enough times and you can figure out just how accurate the methodology is.

      You shouldn't need to test the satellite's accuracy until you ensure that you have an accurate way to find the location. In other words, what you should be questioning is the accuracy of data analysis (look at the quote from TFA below). The satellite collected only the time difference when it pinged the plane. That would give you a uniformed error distance (if the data is inaccurate) each ping. Then you should calculate for the satellite's location when it pinged and received the signal. Sadly, these informations are not enough to pin point a location even with multiple points.

      The DSTG used its computers to generate a huge number of possible routes and then test them to see which best fit the observed data. Their endpoints were pooled to generate a probabilistic “heat map” of the plane’s most likely resting places using a technique called Bayesian analysis.

      What do you think you would get from a known location and the distance from the location? Of course, a line drawing into an enclosed shape (a circle in a smooth plane/sphere). However, there are 6-hour data (about 6 pings), so they could narrow the area down to a certain region from the movement. Yet, it is still far from accurate. Why? The problem is the satellite does not know whether or not the plane was sinking into the ocean while the data was being collected. If it was, then there are plentiful scenarios that can be used to explain the movement of the black box under the ocean, and that could cause the region calculation to be even more inaccurate.

      To me, nothing can be done right now. We can predict or suggest what happen, but no one really knows. Maybe some days in the future, we would be able to.

    13. Re:Very userful by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      I want to know if the team ran any baseline data. Can the use this technique to locate a plane that isn't lost? There might be some surprises in that result.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    14. Re:Very userful by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Full title: Nancy Guerrero, Dircetor of Creimer Amebas

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    15. Re:Very userful by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      How big is the area? 400 x 700 square miles.

      Well according to Wikipedia the Indian Ocean is (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean) 70,560,000 km2 (27,240,000 sq mi) (approximately 20% of the water on the Earth's surface) - about 2 orders of magnitude higher than your calculation - which only gives 280,000 square miles.

      Now figure you're looking for things that are more like 1 meter x 1 meter in size or smaller. Yeah - it's not going to be easy; you might be able to find large parts (tail section, wings, etc) but most things are going to be quite small - and nothing be 73 meters x 4 meters - which is also a far cry from the reported size of the 777-200ER (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777) - which is 63 meters x 60 meters (to square it all off); even if we ignored the wings - the best is still 63 meters by 6 meters - though it'll no longer be 63 meters long; more like 3-6 meters wide by 1-10 meters length chunks.

      All-in-all, it's like finding an exact grain of sand that was laser edged with an ID number dropped into Lake Superior.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    16. Re: Very userful by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      Set the hay on fire. After it burns down, blow away the ash.

    17. Re: Very userful by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      Not very efficient. Simply announce a line of new Green Needles, a sustainable product made from dried herbaceous plant matter. Now you've reduced the problem to finding a needle in a needle stack.

  2. Well... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 5, Informative

    all that science worked well!

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    1. Re:Well... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      No religion needed to kill people.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    2. Re:Well... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      all that science worked well!

      Back in the old days, we called it math and statistical analysis. "data science" sounds cooler I suppose.

  3. Shia Labeouf by QuadEddie · · Score: 5, Funny

    If Shia Labeouf were on the plane, 4chan could have found it in less than 24 hours.

    1. Re:Shia Labeouf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think /pol/ is getting bored of ruining Shia's life. A week ago he put the flag on top of some music hall in France and all they've done so far is launch a flaming drone at it in a half-hearted attempt to set it on fire.

    2. Re:Shia Labeouf by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I think it's less of a challenge. They know exactly where it is. They could probably get it with a little effort, but why bother? There's not a lot of bragging rights for that.

  4. You had one thing to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Perhaps you shouldn't gloat about how great your Data Science is, if you haven't actually achieved your one goal.

  5. Re:Just Use Logic by MightyYar · · Score: 1

    The "ringing phones" isn't a thing.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  6. Re:Painful TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How about we just forego all this back patting until the plane is found?

  7. Let's not forget what brought us here by eclectro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everybody would not be needing to comb over minute pieces of data and vast esoteric computations if service providers had behaved better.

    The satellite service was capable of gathering the gps data from the plane instantaneously and throughout its flight path. But the satellite company was charging for it, and Malaysian authorities did not want to pay for it presumably because it cost too much.

    If the gps location service had been available for this flight, one can't help but wonder if there was a possible intervention that could have been undertaken when the plane would have been discovered wildly off course, and even though it appears the crash was not survivable, the quick crash site discovery and possible apprehension of possible criminals involved (if there are any).

    As it is, everybody was chintzy all the way around at the expense of the safety of the flying public.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    1. Re:Let's not forget what brought us here by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As it is, everybody was chintzy all the way around at the expense of the safety of the flying public.

      No lie. What year is it? It's really not acceptable that we don't know where all airlines are, all the time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Let's not forget what brought us here by barbariccow · · Score: 1

      GPS data isn't available throughout an entire flight and isn't completely accurate. And it doesn't get reported to authorities.

    3. Re:Let's not forget what brought us here by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      As it is, everybody was chintzy all the way around at the expense of the safety of the flying public.

      At some point I would hope that people stop throwing money at the already ludicrously safe experience of travelling via aircraft and instead spend those savings on maybe making my car drive to the airport safer given I'm far more likely to die there on the road than in a aircraft crash.

      And that goes double, triple and then some for driving or just living in a city like Kuala Lumpur.

  8. Where were the editors? by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

    Where were the editors? HPE's not Slashdot's.

    Then mathematician Dr. Neil Gordon led a team from the Defence Science and Technology Group...

    Given that this is a proper noun the article's spelling is incorrect even in the US. The rest of the world is constantly making allowance for US spelling but it seems that the favour is not being returned.

    --
    Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
  9. Has theoretical model been validated? by craighansen · · Score: 1

    While the theoretical model has been carefully studied (See for example, http://epubs.siam.org/doi/pdf/... ), I'm not aware if any entity ever validated the model by actually flying an aircraft along one of the potential flight paths and comparing the ping times and doppler offsets from the theoretical model with an actual flight path. Does anyone know if that was ever done? Second best would be to compare the metadata from some other known flight with that flight's actual path.

    1. Re:Has theoretical model been validated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They used the data from planes in the air at the time of all of this to compare the metadata. That is why they feel they have it correct. They were able to reproduce the results across a variety of aircraft and figure out arcs for them, using this method.

  10. Re:Just Use Logic by Megane · · Score: 1

    As I recall, there actually was a possible motive. He had a friend who was on trial for the crime of homosexual conduct. Yes, that's right, we're not talking 1940's UK here, we're talking about the 21st century. I'm by no means left-leaning and I think it's pretty dumb. I seem to recall but not very well that there was also something going on where his wife and kids had moved out.

    And yeah, he was a flight simulator junkie and could easily have planned and practiced this from his own house. Of course flight simulators wouldn't have had the subtle detail of the pings on an unsubscribed satellite link, so if he really did do it, he wouldn't have known he was leaving a trail behind, no matter how faint.

    I think he very probably snapped and decided he wanted to punish the Malaysian government by crashing a plane where it couldn't be found. Little did he know that they would get a double whammy a few months later over the Ukraine. I hope they find the damn plane already so we can see what the fuck really happened.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  11. Re:MH370, aka the moment CNN stopped being real ne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    CNN has been shit for a lot longer than that.

  12. Re:Just Use Logic by MightyYar · · Score: 1

    Yeah, CNN isn't the greatest. Tell you what - supply your "source" and we'll compare reputations :)

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  13. Re:Just Use Logic by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

    Somewhat speculation on my part, but cell phones that have been spuriously disconnected from a network can cause issues for the related telephone networks trying to ring through to them, especially when they were last associated with less developed switching systems. If I pull the battery from my phone, the number of rings before voice mail is reached becomes erratic (T-mobile). If the phones still worked in any capacity, there'd be significant amounts of data (in any of the telecom systems along the routes) to attest to this, owing to people from many origins systems trying to ring them. Simplest explanation ("something" happened, plane flew on autopilot until fuel exhaustion and crashed) is likely the least-incorrect one here, at least in my opinion.

    --
    There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  14. Re:Just Use Logic by thegreatbob · · Score: 1, Insightful

    While I generally disagree with your original post, CNN is inherently an absolutely awful citation.

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    There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  15. Re:MH370, aka the moment CNN stopped being real ne by thegreatbob · · Score: 2

    That's the epoch you chose? I'll admit, they've been on the decline, but I hope you don't seriously believe it started there.

    --
    There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  16. Re:Just Use Logic by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    CNN is well known as a middle-of-the-road, trustworthy source.

    You sound a like a nutter sheep. Bahahahahahaha little sheep bahahahahahaha! Just bleet out whatever the newsvertainment outlet told you to.

  17. MH370 is STILL missing.... by kenwd0elq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd be a whole lot more impressed about the performance of "Big Data" if the submarine ROVs had found any trace of the aircraft. Right now, what they have is a big fat NOTHING. Some control surfaces washed up on islands a thousand miles away are not indicative of the performance of any sort of data analysis.

    1. Re:MH370 is STILL missing.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Given that the black box has enough battery to ping away for 30 days, a nuclear sub would take less than a week to get there and pin point it exactly. Maybe not get to the depth of the sunken plane, but would be able to sit right there above it and say it is exactly below us and have the coordinates.
      Notice that no media has mentioned anything about manned submarines finding it. No sub found it as it was not there to be found. There are military subs all over the world and within 30 days, one would have found it. So I don't think it crashed into the sea. It may get dumped around there at some stage in the future though.

    2. Re:MH370 is STILL missing.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      ... because nuclear submarines, which are expensive and built to 24/7 stand alert, are just willy nillly sent off looking for a missing civil airliner instead of hunting enemy submarines and putting nuclear missiles off the enemy's coast.

      Oh by the way, water affects sonar the same way for sonobouys, dippers, towed sonar arays and submarines. You still have to be relatively close.

      -Dan

    3. Re:MH370 is STILL missing.... by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Now that Big Data works, maybe we should build better underwater detection equipment?

    4. Re:MH370 is STILL missing.... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      I think back to ancients of Samos figuring out the circumference and diameter of the Earth, and the size of the moon in relation to the Earth, and I must agree with you! Blathering on, without evidence, is simply an advertisement pitch. On the other hand, I go with my previous analyses of following the money, and the facts that the Blackstone Group (major owner) and the Carlyle Group (minor owner) owned Freescale Semiconductors, whose foundries were responsible for the FPGAs aboard that aircraft, which a lab attached to Cambridge University declared to be backdoored in its study of the chips involved, and the designer company of those FGPAs was CEO'd by the son of the founder of Blackstone Group. Also, other systems aboard were of ARINC-design and protocol, and ARINC was owned for some time by the Carlyle Group, minor owner of Freescale, which had a bunch of fabrication engineers aboard. Note some suspicious and interesting patterns here????

    5. Re:MH370 is STILL missing.... by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      No, because you have searched the entire area of your bathtub with sensors that are capable of detecting the presence of aircraft debris. We can therefore be confident that MH370 did NOT crash in your bathtub.

  18. HPE Insights by plopez · · Score: 1

    Solves nothing.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  19. Re:Just Use Logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    RWNJ ALERT, Cunt hates truth, whimpers fake news.

  20. Don't declare victory until the airframe is found by kriston · · Score: 1

    Umm, hold up, folks.

    Don't declare victory until the airframe is found.

    .

    --

    Kriston

  21. MH370 huh? by slashmydots · · Score: 2

    Anyone keep reading these headlines and thinking it's the new Intel chipset?

    1. Re:MH370 huh? by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Huh? It's not?! I have been boasting my knowledge of the new intel chipset discovery to my colleagues all morning.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  22. Too early by mseeger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This post comes too early. First find the damn thing, then boast about how this or that method helped finding it.

  23. Dead by mathematics? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How about declared dead after they couldn't find the plane for over 9 months and no one had established contact?

    This article is a load of crap. It's an example of how these data models have failed to achieve anything useful. Firstly after almost 2 years they announced that they were looking in the wrong place: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/... and also that they were confident that after spending $200m the plane was not in the search area they established. https://www.theguardian.com/wo...

    Good work big data!

  24. That is not "Data Science" by gweihir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is merely a bit more special RF signal analysis engineering and not so much different from other radio-location tasks, although you usually have more data. Calling this "Data Science" is nonsense.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  25. Re:Just Use Logic by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

    I don't recall having heard anything from them in quite some time, I'm not really the newsy sort. Apologies, but all I receive is what filters in from folks around me (who I typically disregard for similar reasons). News agencies tend to exposit their information without citing sources, often making them a dead-end citation.

    --
    There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  26. Best Explanation I've heard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    There was a similar aircraft where the oxygen bottle for the pilots broke its valve top and shot out the side of the aircraft like a rocket, putting a decent-sized hole in the fuselage (A foot or two in diameter). Turning off all the electronics breakers is consistent with fighting an electrical fire. So the theory would be - the pilots' oxygen bottle, in the radio bay below them, starts leaking, producing an oxygen-rich environment underneath them in the electrical hold - an electrical spark then results in a fire, so they immediately turn off the electrics. The oxygen bottle then fails and departs the aircraft putting a big hole in the fuselage; the pilots put on their masks and begin emergency procedures, turn the aircraft around about 180 and program the heading back to the nearest airport on the Malay peninsula. It would take a while for the pilots to realize they have no oxygen, by which point they are probably passing out, before they can program the autopilot for a lower flight level, a rather complex task for an oxygen-starved brain. I'm not sure I believe the Malaysians or Indonesians claiming on somewhat shakey grounds that they tracked the aircraft meandering - possibly that's an excuse for not having good radar data. Most likely, it follows the course set toward the nearest airport, keeps going over the Malay peninsula and Aceh, and out into the ocean. The passengers have 15 minutes or so of oxygen in those drop-down masks, so by the time they realize there's a problem in the cockpit they probably can't do anything about it, and also pass out. The aircraft flies on with it's programmed direction, everyone either passed out or dead or frozen, until it runs out of fuel. Does it stay level until it stalls, or gracefully glide down at greater than stall speed? Do some of the occupants wake up when the aircraft is low enough, only to watch it hit the water in the middle of nowhere?

  27. Data science so good that they didn't find it by mschuyler · · Score: 1

    I'm so impressed. With all this sophisticated data science they know exactly where it is. The only problem is that they haven't found the airplane. They know where it is. They really do. It's just that they haven't found it. Another :"WIN" for science!

    --
    How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
  28. Not accurate by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    Having worked a lot in aviation (even specifically with Inmarsat) I really doubt these results, even beyond the statement that they created this model from scratch (and thus unverified/untested). Navigation isn't even very accurate in planes, so much so that you have things like NAT tracks ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ) which establish fixed routes across the Atlantic where there is little radar coverage, GPS is not complete ( see RAIM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ) and often inaccurate. They need the fixed tracks so that planes don't run into eachother and actually make it across, almost blind. Over land, airports and whatnot broadcast an analog signal that basically says what's nearby and where they are, and based on these a plane can normally tell where it is. The point is -- planes generally don't know where they are, and if they do it's because of a combination of equipment, so the inmarsat ping doesn't contain something like "I received this at XXX N by YYY E". To think that you could track a plane at all with things such as latency to a signal is either the biggest breakthrough in avionic nav ever, or a load of crock.

  29. Re:Just Use Logic by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    If you're not going to go whole-hog and measure a metric ton of horse shit every day to filter out the very small amount of source data implied by it, then yeah, you're best off just not believing anything.

    If you disbelieve everything you're almost there. The problem is, people want to believe something, but they don't want to admit that everybody is full of shit and that it would be a huge amount of work just to figure out what was actually claimed, and what was implied through phrasing but wasn't actually part of the data. In the end if you put the work in, there is a small amount of moderate, dispassionate middle-of-the-road data available, and everything else is a bunch of shrill horseshit.

    For me it is a hobby; I started reading the papers on a daily basis in 3rd grade. If you spend enough time at it, a lot of the lies become standard ones that the exact same talking heads spew both sides of depending on the politics of the day, and so the filters do have opportunities to improve over time. The only problem is, the hobby is more likely to interesting to people who credulously run down rabbit holes than to people who are comfortable declaring most of it to be bullshit day after day.

    It is easy to say that everything is bullshit, it is harder to say, "They don't know, and neither do I!" The more natural human tendency is, "They don't know, so let me tell you!"