Slashdot Mirror


Can Japan Burn Flammable Ice For Energy? (cnn.com)

dryriver writes: Japan is a country that currently has to import 90% of its fuels for energy generation, having very little in the way of oil, coal or natural gas reserves in the country. Since the Fukushima disaster, its 50-plus nuclear reactors have been mostly idle. This makes Japan one of the least self-sufficient countries in terms of energy generation in the developed world. But there is an untapped energy resource that Japan has in abundance: ice that has large quantities of methane trapped in it. These ice crystals hold a remarkable quantity of natural methane gas. It is estimated that one cubic meter of frozen gas hydrate contains 164 cubic meters of methane. Japan has so far spent over $1 billion on research and development efforts in order to find a way to efficiently extract the methane from the ice. Where is this methane rich ice located? Engineers have so far focused on Nankai Trough, a long, narrow depression 50 kilometers off the coast of central Japan, which had been extensively surveyed over many years. Analysis of extracted core samples and seismic data has revealed that 1.1 trillion cubic meters of methane -- enough to meet Japan's gas needs for more than a decade -- lies below the floor of the trough. Some experts think that if an efficient method is found to extract methane from flammable ice, it could change the energy map of the entire world. Flammable ice has either been found, or is suspected to be present in large quantities, off the coastlines of all 5 continents in the world (the linked article has a map showing the currently known locations). Ten years from now the price of energy around the world may thus not be set by how much oil, coal or natural gas costs at that point in time, but rather by how much methane extraction from flammable ice costs.

9 of 153 comments (clear)

  1. Re:As usual you have to determine cost/benefit by Kamamura · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That's a common misconception shared by journalist who write about shale gas and oil, etc.

    The real question is not "how many dollars does it cost to produce a barrel", since dollar cost is an arbitrary value set by humans, but rather "how much energy does it cost to produce a barrel"?

  2. Re:As usual you have to determine cost/benefit by robbak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This methane ice (clathrates, a trapping of methane in a crystalline structure of water) is only stable at pressure. So, if pulled to the surface - not difficult, because it is lighter than water is - it breaks down and releases the methane.

    --
    Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
  3. Why shut down nuclear? by aberglas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The 2011 Thoku tsunami killed some 16,000 people. Dead now.

    The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear "disaster" killed Zero people directly. Maybe a dozen will die eventually. Maybe.

    So you would think that the focus would be on tsunami protection. Better walls, better alerts etc.

    But instead, it is on the nuclear "disaster". Which only happened as a result of a freak event. And lessons learned meant that the same would not happen again.

    But they close down 50 nuclear plants. At huge cost.

    Knee jerk reaction based on political perceptions and column inches of news print rather than any rational analysis.

    1. Re:Why shut down nuclear? by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nuclear power is definitely the answer to our current power problems. Fusion is hopefully eventually the answer but regular old fission is orders of magnitude more safe and more efficient than anything else we have. A "person" is smart, "people" are just absolutely dumbfuckery stupid.

      Fusion is available now! It's cheap, safe, and it only requires the will to use it, but on the plus side, anyone can!

      True, we only have one useable fusion reactor, so everyone has to share it, but as it puts out HUGE amounts of power, there's plenty enough for all. Some may fret about radiation, but that's why we cleverly made sure to keep population centers at a safe distance, of 1 astronomical unit from the reactor. We should all make use of that. Failing to do so is just stupid, honestly.

      --
      Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
  4. That's called the 'Clathrate Gun Hypothesis' by robbak · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Clathrate Gun Hypothesis is the scary climate change idea, that we will heat up the planet until methane trapped in arctic soils and clathrates will start to be released, and, as methane is a really bad greenhouse gas, results in more warming, triggering the release of more methane, and forming a fast, tight positive feedback loop.

    It's a really scary prospect.

    --
    Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
    1. Re:That's called the 'Clathrate Gun Hypothesis' by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Are they something that survived the previous interglacial periods

      Some methane was released at the end of the last ice age, but not enough to trigger a feedback loop. But current temperatures have exceeded interglacial temps, so we don't know what could happen. There is evidence for a runaway methane release about 110M years ago.

      The arctic contains about 1400 Giga-Tonnes of methane. A release of 50 GT would be equivalent to a doubling of current atmospheric CO2 levels.

      The Clathrate Gun is possibly the biggest danger in delaying agressive action on global warming.

  5. Re:As usual you have to determine cost/benefit by viperidaenz · · Score: 5, Informative

    You've vastly underestimated the energy density of methane.

    164m3 of methane is about 6GJ of energy (55MJ per kg, 0.656kg per m3, 164m3. 55 * 0.656 * 164 = 5.9GJ)
    1 cubie metre of ice, minus the ~100kg of methne is 900kg.
    Melting 1kg ice takes 333.5kJ of energy. Melting 900kg of ice takes 300MJ, so there's an excess of about 5.6GJ of energy per cubic metre. That assumes the ice is already at 0 degrees. Add on 3.6MJ per degree below zero to heat up 900kg of ice and 200kJ per degree to heat up 100kg of methane.
    Assuming the ice is at -20 degrees, that's another 76MJ, still insignificant compared to the 5.9GJ of energy in the methane.

    However, you don't need to burn anything to melt ice. It would take a while, but you can use the energy in the atmosphere to melt it, effectively for free. You can use a heat pump to speed it up, without using as much energy.

  6. Because the cost is completely unjustifiable by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear "disaster" killed Zero people directly. Maybe a dozen will die eventually. Maybe.

    Maybe you're getting figures from the same people who say drones have only killed 100 civilians. But putting the issue of deaths aside completely, nuclear power is unjustifiable based on cost alone.

    It simply costs too much to build, to maintain, to secure, to decommission, and that's before getting to storing the waste for thousands of years. For the same startup cost you can build out wind and solar generation in a fraction of the time with none of the long term liabilities, and that's including pumped storage facilities to neutralize the baseline canard that is invariably brought up when discussing wind and solar.

  7. Re:As usual you have to determine cost/benefit by KiloByte · · Score: 5, Funny

    "It is estimated that one cubic meter of frozen gas hydrate contains 164 cubic meters of methane". How does 1 contain 164?

    Don't be dense.

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.