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The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year Was Ultimately Caused By UI Confusion (arstechnica.com)

Yesterday, the U.S. Navy issued its report on the collisions of the USS Fitzgerald and USS John S. McCain this summer, which was the fourth U.S. Navy collision this year. "The Navy's investigation found that both collisions were avoidable accidents," reports Ars Technica. "And in the case of the USS McCain, the accident was in part caused by an error made in switching which control console on the ship's bridge had steering control. While the report lays the blame on training, the user interface for the bridge's central navigation control systems certainly played a role." From the report: According to the report, at 5:19am local time, the commanding officer of the McCain, Commander Alfredo J. Sanchez, "noticed the Helmsman (the watchstander steering the ship) having difficulty maintaining course while also adjusting the throttles for speed control." Sanchez ordered the watch team to split the responsibilities for steering and speed control, shifting control of the throttle to another watchstander's station -- the lee helm, immediately to the right (starboard) of the Helmsman's position at the Ship's Control Console. While the Ship's Control Console has a wheel for manual steering, both steering and throttle can be controlled with trackballs, with the adjustments showing up on the screens for each station. However, instead of switching just throttle control to the Lee Helm station, the Helmsman accidentally switched all control to the Lee Helm station. When that happened, the ship's rudder automatically moved to its default position (amidships, or on center line of the ship). The helmsman had been steering slightly to the right to keep the ship on course in the currents of the Singapore Strait, but the adjustment meant the ship started drifting off course.

At this point, everyone on the bridge thought there had been a loss of steering. In the commotion that ensued, the commanding officer and bridge crew lost track of what was going on around them. Sanchez ordered the engines slowed, but the lee helmsman only slowed the port (left) throttle, because the throttle controls on-screen were not "ganged" (linked) at the time as the result of the switch-over of control. The ship continued to turn uncontrolled to port -- putting the ship on a collision course with the Liberian-flagged chemical carrier Alnic MC.

220 comments

  1. Damn developers... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    See? This is what happens when the project team is made up of "full-stack" developers - no one knows how to code a decent UI... That, and the whole thing was written in Angular...

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Damn developers... by magarity · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is what happens when people get too caught up in method A that they forget about method B. The ship has a steering wheel. If the trackball method seems out of whack for even a second, someone should grab the physical wheel while the video game steering is diagnosed.

    2. Re:Damn developers... by Inviska · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd much rather have a programmer design the user interface than a UX designer. With a programmer you usually get a logical, well constructed interface that follows standards and offers easy access the software's functionality. Meanwhile, most UX designers turn up and say, "let's recreate the interface with flat design, remove all the colours, hide all the options, remove all customisation, spread the buttons all over the place, and after we've finished let's redesign the whole thing again next year."

      I've used Windows and commercial applications all my life, but in recent years I've found myself using free open source software far more, and Windows 10 has me moving to Linux. This isn't for idealogical reasons, but with free software the developer generally creates the user interface, so you get something that's usable. Commercial software tends to bring in UX designers who have a nasty habit of taking good software and rendering it totally worthless.

    3. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you just suggest that this UI was too Modern and that not enough Chrome was used? Maybe they could fix it with some Fluent Material Design System. It is all German you see. ;)

    4. Re:Damn developers... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Come on, you can do better than that. You didn't even try to tie it to Hillary Clinton's email server once.

      We can't. You know it got wiped (with a cloth) long before this happened...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    5. Re:Damn developers... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With a programmer you usually get a logical, well constructed interface

      Gimp is an obvious counterexample.

    6. Re:Damn developers... by bobbied · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually...

      As I understood the article, the issue was that the physical wheel that controlled the rudder can be moved electronically between multiple locations. The same is true with the throttles. The problem here was the physical control location got switched accidently and they lost track of where it went.

      A good UI would have two key features. First, it would have a visual indicator at ALL possible control locations where the one primary physical control was currently configured. Second, it would provide some kind of warning both when the primary control location was changed and when any physical control which was not primary was being moved.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    7. Re:Damn developers... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Actually, this seems like the UI was fine. Nowhere in TFS does it say the UI didn't match reality. It just said people got confused and fucked up when the UX screwed them over. I fucking abhor the term "UX", but this is a rare case where it actually applies.

      The helmsman sent all control (not just throttle) the the other station. It's not clear from TFS if this was due to a bad UI or not.
      The system did something unexpected when it reset the rudder position. This is bad. Control transfer shouldn't change the current state under normal circumstances. It should have the ability to reset the state, however, because the first console may be fucked up and yo may be switching because it's fucked up.
      The second helmsman throttled down only one engine. It's not clear from TFS is this was due to a bad UI or not.

      But nowhere in TFS does it state that the UI at any time was inaccurate.

    8. Re:Damn developers... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

      Heh, I just installed Gimp a few minutes ago and used it for the first time in 3 or 4 years and, yep, some things don't change.

      --
      Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    9. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I suspect that the modern UX designer no longer models the interactions, the actors and state space. It takes time and is therefore too expensive and most of all, it's boring because it is almost like math! (the ultimate horror) Funny that we have these computers these days that can be made to execute boring things.

    10. Re:Damn developers... by MikeMo · · Score: 1

      I find that developers make UIs which are perfectly understandable and logical to *them*, but they already know how everything works. As a result, they make the worst possible of all UIs.

    11. Re:Damn developers... by LesFerg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes but if you had more than one control, and one stopped working, wouldn't your first thought be to try the other one?
      I can't accept everybody just ran about waving their hands in the air shouting "we've lost steering control".

      I agree it is reasonable to expect an indicator of which device is active, and preferably each inactive device should have an indicator to show which one was in use, couldn't take more than a few Arduino's and some LEDs. heh.

      --
      If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
    12. Re:Damn developers... by presidenteloco · · Score: 2

      The UI on control station B (let's call it) clearly didn't PROMINENTLY indicate to that operator that they had both the steering control and throttle control.

      It also didn't PROMINENTLY show that only one throttle and propellor (of the left and right one) was being adjusted rather than both.

      These facts should be visually direct and hit-you-over-the-head prominent on that ui. Bright big colored things in the corresponding shape of the real thing.

      Also, the fact that the other console A (that formerly had control) no longer had steering control and had transferred it (to station B) should also have been visually prominent in console A's UI.

      And of course a little simulator training for the crew wouldn't have hurt either, but this was also a serious BAD UX problem.

      Also, the control logic for transferring steering from console A to console B on the bridge is different from how that transfer works to console C (Aft steering station, at back of boat.)

      A => B : station B rudder control always starts at midships rudder regardless of station A rudder setting prior to transfer.
      In this case, station A had a starboard roughly 4 degrees rudder setting to compensate for drifting in ocean current. That changed to midships rudder on the transfer without anyone realizing it had been different.

      A => C : station C rudder control resumes at whatever setting station C already had the last time it was used, regardless of the rudder setting on whatever console transferred to it.
      In this case, station C was at 30 degrees port rudder when it got control. It's operator didn't realize that for a while.

      These differences in the control logic are also probably very bad human-factors design, and would have required large amounts of repeated training to have people get the different transfer procedures straight. UX fail again.

      --

      Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    13. Re: Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine that, having to know how to use a tool to... Use the tool. God forbid anyone read a manual.

      I bought a hammer drill a while back. I couldn't figure out how to change the bit based on the UI... I checked the manual, saw i needed to push a button while turning another piece counter clockwise. I then cleared a room full of tile in twenty minutes.

      Power tool manuals are hardly concise, what with the usual disclaimers if electrical hazards, etc. I'd expect a helmsman or whatever on hundred million dollar vessel to be able to read even a thousand page manual before being cleared to drive the boat.

    14. Re:Damn developers... by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      A UX designer should focus on utility and functionality, but if the PHB's decided they "need" a dedicated UX designer, it usually means they want eye-candy, and that's what they hire for.

      As far as commercial versus open-source, I usually find the commercial UI's more friendly, I have to say. Windows OS UI's indeed do suck, but because we have to use them at work, we just learn and memorize our way around the swamp.

    15. Re: Damn developers... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that Zumwalt uses Angular.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re:Damn developers... by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      If the UI was a web app...they should just total the ship, and start over from scratch. That's the safest route.

    17. Re: Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nuke the ship from orbit, it's the only way to be sure...

    18. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually...

      As I understood the article, the issue was that the physical wheel that controlled the rudder can be moved electronically between multiple locations. The same is true with the throttles. The problem here was the physical control location got switched accidently and they lost track of where it went.

      A good UI would have two key features. First, it would have a visual indicator at ALL possible control locations where the one primary physical control was currently configured. Second, it would provide some kind of warning both when the primary control location was changed and when any physical control which was not primary was being moved.

      You keep using that word "Physical".I do not thin it means what you think it means...

    19. Re:Damn developers... by rtb61 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      No it's a scam investigation, they don't want to admit the US Navy is forcing right of passage always demanding all other ships move and even trying it with light house. They are trying to slime out of it buy relying on gullibility and the typical mug punter association with driving a car, how soon they see the car and how much time they have for evasive action. Shh, but this a two bloody large ships and you have minutes for evasive action and with radar basically a whole lot longer than that to establish a safe course. Basically right up until the end, with the US navy waving it's dicks about trying to force the other ship to alter course regardless of international maritime law and then and only then, when they visibly new the other ship would not be able to take sufficient evasive action, did they in a panic attempt to alter course and failed, through incompetence upon a course set by swollen testicles and an erection.

      I don't know how idiots run a Navy but logic would demand a constant state of training, I would expect naval vessel to see and not be seen. Run courses to target and identify every ship they come across as training and to strive to not been seen ie shadowing patterns, this again as training. I would expect that the crew at all times keep full control of their vessel and that it would be impossible for any merchant vessel to ram them no matter how hard that merchant vessel tried.

      The final failure was steering but what led to that point was not, that was a purposeful exercise by the US Navy to force big dick authority upon all merchant vessels. Maybe the captain was too busy in his cabin having some getting off time during the stupid manoeuvre.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    20. Re:Damn developers... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      You also need the frigging Christmas Tree at each station, a pendant of lights that shows everyone on the bridge who has what controls. Say Red for throttle and Blue for steering or whatever, and white for offline.

    21. Re:Damn developers... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      A => C : station C rudder control resumes at whatever setting station C already had the last time it was used, regardless of the rudder setting on whatever console transferred to it.

      Pretty huge fail - it could have been days since Station C had control (assuming I understand right). Current heading should override all previous settings. Person who gained control should be alerted to the current data when they get control.

    22. Re:Damn developers... by John.Banister · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most of the civilian boats on board which I've worked have a button at each station: "give control to this station right here." You don't have to find the station that has control to release it. You just take it where you stand. I can understand that the Navy might want to temporarily disable that sort of capability (perhaps using a physical key at the station from which control cannot be taken) if they had immediate concerns about hostile actors on the bridge, but not to have the capability at all seems destined to cause just this sort of problem.

      On boats with this system, the "take command" button is lit on the station that currently has command. Also, they generally require the controls at the incoming station to be in "neutral" before command can be taken - the response to the change to neutral is delayed enough on changing stations that you can switch the steering back to autopilot and move the throttles quickly back to the position from the former station without hassling the course or propulsion engines.

    23. Re:Damn developers... by fisted · · Score: 1

      Blue for steering.

      Can't do, pretty sure blue is already reserved for the standby/power indicator (mandated encoding seems to be: standby: blindingly bright blue, power on: even more blindingly bright blue)

    24. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks... I just got a patent approved for this invention!

    25. Re:Damn developers... by uldics · · Score: 1

      You should take a look at HP commercial products interfaces. They are so convoluted and makes simple things so timeconsuming, that every user who has to return to their product usage considers retiring. Two examples: Service Manager (SM7, SM9 etc.), HP Extream (high vol print data design).

    26. Re:Damn developers... by Puls4r · · Score: 2

      Which is exactly why the stack lights should have WORDS on them..... so that there isn't any confusion.

    27. Re: Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the blind sailors? Gotta meet ADA requirements.

    28. Re:Damn developers... by gravewax · · Score: 1

      but with free software the developer generally creates the user interface

      what fantasy world are you living in? this is the one area where Linux and most OSS projects fail so fucking huge it is unbelievable, the inconsistent nature and usability issues across all the main OSS projects is astounding.

    29. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I installed photoshop a while back. That thing is even more of a mess.

    30. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Features" are as big a problem as the UI. It is quite obvious to me that switching control from one station to another is an example of a solution looking for a problem. It adds unnecessary complexity for the sake of unnecessary convenience. Is this a problem with all designers, not just programmers? I bet those control stations also doubled as flashlights and bottle openers, why not? Appears to me that feature creep is just as much a cause of the collision(s) as poorly designed UI. I'm not sure it is a thing, but "sail by wire" and "sail by software" sounds like a bad idea for a military war machine, even one that floats.

    31. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and Windows 10 has me moving to Linux

      Your epiphany struck me as pretty funny... but with such a high UID, perhaps you are very young. But if not, it's like saying, "That is it! Rocky XIX was terrible! I'm never watching another Rocky movie." IOW, wtf took you so long? Windows 9 was bearable? Windows 8 was the bees knees? Windows 7 was superfly? Windows XP should have been left alone? Fuck, dude. Windows began it's slide into intolerable right when Microsoft stole it from DEC.

      It amuses me so much I won't even /bin/bash Linux for screwing up perfectly good UNIX for no fucking reason whatsoever.

    32. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the physical wheel that controlled the rudder can be moved electronically between multiple locations

      A physical wheel cannot be moved electronically!

    33. Re:Damn developers... by Aereus · · Score: 1

      Then they're a shitty UX designer. Logical layout, common workflow patterns, and readability etc. should be primary concerns in UI design.

    34. Re:Damn developers... by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      No it's a scam investigation, they don't want to admit the US Navy is forcing right of passage always demanding all other ships move and even trying it with light house. They are trying to slime out of it buy relying on gullibility and the typical mug punter association with driving a car, how soon they see the car and how much time they have for evasive action. Shh, but this a two bloody large ships and you have minutes for evasive action and with radar basically a whole lot longer than that to establish a safe course. Basically right up until the end, with the US navy waving it's dicks about trying to force the other ship to alter course regardless of international maritime law and then and only then, when they visibly new the other ship would not be able to take sufficient evasive action, did they in a panic attempt to alter course and failed, through incompetence upon a course set by swollen testicles and an erection.

      I don't know how idiots run a Navy but logic would demand a constant state of training, I would expect naval vessel to see and not be seen. Run courses to target and identify every ship they come across as training and to strive to not been seen ie shadowing patterns, this again as training. I would expect that the crew at all times keep full control of their vessel and that it would be impossible for any merchant vessel to ram them no matter how hard that merchant vessel tried.

      The final failure was steering but what led to that point was not, that was a purposeful exercise by the US Navy to force big dick authority upon all merchant vessels. Maybe the captain was too busy in his cabin having some getting off time during the stupid manoeuvre.

      Look, stop prevaricating and say what your real opinion of the US Navy is!

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    35. Re: Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your uncritical acceptance of the (very old) lighthouse joke as a fact invalidates your post, and even your opinions on the matter.

    36. Re: Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Each station has a wheel. At most one of them can move the rudder at any given moment. Quick! Which one? This one worked a second ago! I didn't touch anything...we lost steering!

    37. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a programmer you usually get a logical, well constructed interface that follows standards and offers easy access the software's functionality.

      ...

      I've used Windows and commercial applications all my life, but in recent years I've found myself using free open source software far more, and Windows 10 has me moving to Linux. This isn't for idealogical reasons, but with free software the developer generally creates the user interface, so you get something that's usable.

      Oh dear. Please sit, there's something you need to know about a little thing called systemd...

    38. Re:Damn developers... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      I'd much rather have a programmer design the user interface than a UX designer. With a programmer you usually get a logical, well constructed interface that follows standards and offers easy access the software's functionality.

      For systems such as ship control, I'd rather have the UI designed in consultation with the end users so the designers can understand the operator's needs and how they operate the system and design the UI accordingly. If you don't understand how a system will be used it's easy to get caught up in what is logical to you but doesn't work in the real world.

      Years ago, I was involved in a control room design project. The programmers made nice digital readouts of plant parameters, all located on various screens. Unfortunately, digital gauges are useless when a pump's output is fluctuating rapidly while an analog one lets you estimate the average output while you address the casualty. Having to page through four screens in an emergency to find a critical parameter is problematic as well. Fortunately, in this case we worked with the programmers to come up with a design that worked.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    39. Re: Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt there are many blind sailors out to sea. Particularly in the Navy.

    40. Re:Damn developers... by rwise2112 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes but if you had more than one control, and one stopped working, wouldn't your first thought be to try the other one? I can't accept everybody just ran about waving their hands in the air shouting "we've lost steering control".

      I agree it is reasonable to expect an indicator of which device is active, and preferably each inactive device should have an indicator to show which one was in use, couldn't take more than a few Arduino's and some LEDs. heh.

      Good points. Even better would be a button 'take control here'.

      Either way the system is too complex. They are confused while just sailing along. Can you imagine if there was a war on, and they were getting shot at or something!

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    41. Re:Damn developers... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I'd much rather have a programmer design the user interface than a UX designer.

      Fuck NO!. I agree in the consumer field UX designers need their balls chopped off, but the only thing worse is to let programmers run amok. We had that for many years in industry and the resulting UI clusterfucks have lead to countless incidents. In the mean time critical industries and HMI interface specialists who support them have been doing many years of research and perfected models of operator interaction.

      The UX designer: No need for visual indicators. Oh the steering control should look like the main wheel of a ship. It will be awesome!
      The programmer: Put every visual indicator on the same screen at the same time. Make most of the screen red because everything is important. Make sure all information is available all the time in every possible unit.

      Both are just as bad as each other and open source provides a great many examples of just how little programmers know about UI.

    42. Re:Damn developers... by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      You say that, but Windows 7 when configured to look like Windows XP is the standard to beat. Later Windows' don't stand up and both Gnome and KDE remain hideous.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    43. Re:Damn developers... by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      If the UI caused confusion about which station had what control then it's a situation known as "design induced human error." It means the UI design sucked rocks.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    44. Re:Damn developers... by gachunt · · Score: 1

      "let's recreate the interface with flat design, remove all the colours, hide all the options, remove all customisation, spread the buttons all over the place, and after we've finished let's redesign the whole thing again next year."

      Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your UX Designer is actually just a low-rate Graphic Designer.

      Fire him/her and get an actual UX Specialist, such as one certified by the Nielsen Norman Group.

    45. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd much rather have a programmer design the user interface than a UX designer. With a programmer you usually get a logical, well constructed interface that follows standards and offers easy access the software's functionality. Meanwhile, most UX designers turn up and say, "let's recreate the interface with flat design, remove all the colours, hide all the options, remove all customisation, spread the buttons all over the place, and after we've finished let's redesign the whole thing again next year."

      I've used Windows and commercial applications all my life, but in recent years I've found myself using free open source software far more, and Windows 10 has me moving to Linux. This isn't for idealogical reasons, but with free software the developer generally creates the user interface, so you get something that's usable. Commercial software tends to bring in UX designers who have a nasty habit of taking good software and rendering it totally worthless.

      Geez, what kind of UX Designer have you been dealing with? LOL!

    46. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong.

      They make an UI that is hell for beginners, but ok and efficient for experts/power users.

      Designers make UIs that are easier to figure out as a beginner. But that are clunky and hassle you every day once you no longer wonder how to do things. I'll take the first option any day - but then, I am an expert.

    47. Re: Damn developers... by GateGuy · · Score: 1

      Back in the 80s I was a submariner in the US Navy stationed in Norfolk VA. The parking lots ran right up to the piers. I always thought it funny that the closest parking spots were all handicapped.

      I wondered how the handicapped person got into the submarine with his wheelchair.

      --
      Maryland State Motto: If you can dream it, we can tax it.
    48. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    49. Re:Damn developers... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      There was actually an icon to show that the station didn't have full control. However it was light medium grey on a medium light grey background and looked like a turnip.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    50. Re: Damn developers... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I doubt there are many blind sailors out to sea.

      They'd probably be better at spotting a joke than you, though.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    51. Re:Damn developers... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'd much rather have a programmer design the user interface than a UX designer.

      I'd rather have an ergonomist/human factors wallah do it, but then I actually know what the fuck I'm talking about.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    52. Re:Damn developers... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's as if interior designers started calling themselves architects and this went on until people forgot what an actual architect was.

      Then you get doorways that you have to crouch down and turn sideways to go through. But aren't the walls a lovely colour!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    53. Re:Damn developers... by gtall · · Score: 1

      This is not unlike putting a diagram in a talk with slides. If everyone knows the ground rules governing the diagram, then it will be meaningful generally. If some don't, the diagram will not self-explain anything. I once saw a brief by Gen. Pataeus while he was still a general. He's going through the brief and then hits a slide with arrows all over it, arrows pointing at the door, arrows pointing at the ceiling, arrows pointing at other arrows, arrows point to nothing at all, etc. It was a very noisy slide. He complimented the help he got from Microsoft for constructing that slide for him. That would explain the arrows, what it doesn't explain is why he thought the slide conveyed anything but confusion.

      UIs are similar. If you know the rules, they are fine. Otherwise, they are opaque. Apple once had a development system called MPW. It had a command line tool generator called Commando for putting together Unix like (but different) command lines. Every command has a lot of variations, but when you typed in the name of the command, it would pull up a dialog box with radio buttons, text boxes with labels, etc. You could just select what you needed and it would build a command line in a window. You could run the command line there or copy and paste it into a terminal window. It was refreshing never needing to recall some arcane syntax just to execute a command.

    54. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The helmsman and lee helmsman are two of the least qualified individuals on any U.S. Navy vessel. They are members of Deck Division, which is the group of individuals who are there basically because they do not qualify for any Navy school due to their low ASVAB scores.
      In other words if you go to a recruiter and your test scores are so low that you can't get into a Navy "A" school then after boot camp you go to Deck Division and eventually become the guy steering the ship.
      Back when all these watches did was turn a wheel that was probably alright. The traditional job of the lee helmsman was to work the engine order telegraph, which relayed the Deck Officer's engine orders to a throttleman, an engineering petty officer who actually controlled the engines. So the lee helmsman actually controlled nothing.
      Now they expect this same caliber of individuals to operate computer UIs and actually control systems. Training was certainly the problem, but the lack of training started way back before these sailors ever got to a ship.

    55. Re:Damn developers... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yes but if you had more than one control, and one stopped working, wouldn't your first thought be to try the other one?
      I can't accept everybody just ran about waving their hands in the air shouting "we've lost steering control".

      Yes and no. If you have 2 controls but they run through a common system, and your "we've lost steering control" strategy is to use an independent 3rd system then it is perfectly reasonable to assume that on loss of one control you jump straight to the air shouting strategy. Mind you that strategy is quite solid:

      Look at the timeline:
      0521 The Helm reported loss of steering to the Officer of the Deck.
      0521:13 Steering units on the port rudder were shifted as ordered.
      0521:15 Steering units on the starboard rudder were shifted as ordered
      0521:55 The first watchstander reported to After Steering.

      Remember that a shitty UI brought them into confusion in the first place. Their backup strategy was in place within 45 seconds. How long do you dedicate time to debugging your control loop on a shitty UI?

      The problem wasn't the speed of switching to a backup, it was diagnosing the drift in the first place, compounded by the followup action that the engines weren't ganged. Reading through the report I get the opinion that the collision may have been avoided if the order wasn't given to reduce propulsion, or if that part of the order was executed correctly because only 10 seconds after steering control was taken by the offline units the course had already been largely corrected.

    56. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's got it reversed. Foreign vessels have a habit of trying to force U.S. Navy ships to back down when they have the legitimate right of way. It's like a truck trying to cut off a sports car because they are larger heavier vehicles. The big multimodal merchant refuses to give way or keep to starboard, as international maritime rules say they should. Instead they "play chicken", trying to force the U.S. flagged ship to give way.
      Usually the U.S. ship backs down, because a collision is a career ending move, even if you did the right thing. In this case there was a problem with the steering system, due to poor training, and there was a collision.

    57. Re:Damn developers... by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Hey, GIMP interface is perfectly logical.

      won't say a thing about "well constructed" though. I mean:

      The button layout in toolbox, filling the rows depending on toolbox width, buttons behaving like characters, auto-filling the width, which is perfectly logical if you want to read them left to right like text... not quite so if you want to remember their positions.

      Each configurable tool opens own pop-up with its options once you start using it. Perfectly logical. So what if the popup covers the area of the image you just wanted to modify (using the defaults from previous use). Who cares about some image, you're getting the important UI!

      Selection has own settings of opacity, so do layers. If there's a doubt what to grab, when you want to drag, the top-most layer/selection with >50% opacity is chosen, so if you want to move the background and not the watermark, you don't need to seek around the watermark for a place to grab the background. OTOH, if you want to grab the watermark, you'll need to push its opacity above 50% for duration of the move. Perfectly logical, not quite comfortable. Also, moving that layer with only thin ink lines; area between lines empty? You'd better grab by a line, no matter it's 3 pixels wide.

      There are at least 5 ways to change a numerical value under every slider. If you want to drag the slider at same speed as mouse cursor, just position the cursor on the *bottom half* of it, at where it's currently. Otherwise you'll get some incremental changes, proportional reduced rate, numerical entry, up/down buttons, or some other way to change the value. So many interesting choices.

      If you want to apply a tool to image, you need to have the image window selected. Illogical choices like trying to paste current selection into the toolbox window or into a brush selector window are explicitly disallowed and won't produce any results.

      And if you want to pick a font, you're sure to receive its name in a neat, readable default font, sure no junk like 'windings' written in windings! You'll also receive a sample of the appearance of the font: the letters A and a.

      Zoom out is under the '-' key. Logically, Zoom in, obviously, is '+', (reachable as shift-'=').

      You really can't fault the logic. Everything is perfectly logical. You need to be a programmer to appreciate that. Artists... they just won't understand it.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    58. Re:Damn developers... by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Blender is hell for beginners, but efficient for experts/power users.

      Gimp is hell for beginners and power users alike. It's not made to be efficient; it's being made to be a showcase of capabilities of the technology (of GTK+).

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    59. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem was probably that nobody pushed that button.

      It sounds roughly like the chain of events was:

      helmsman was fucking up the throttle control (probably because navigating with a trackball made it hard to precisely adjust the rudder to compensate for the current without making small changes to the throttle)
      captain ordered throttle control offloaded to a secondary station.
      When the change occurred the computer put the rudder amidships causing the ship to drift off coarse.
      Helmsman reported loss of control because he didn't order the rudder amidships but was seeing the indication that it changed.
      Capitan ordered reduced speed to limit the impact of the unexpected change while they got control back.
      Second helmsman hand't grouped the throttles yet and accidentally slowed half the engines causing the ship to more severally drift off coarse and being in a busy channel they hit someone.

    60. Re:Damn developers... by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Some programs are written to make users' lives easier.

      Some are there to let everyone see how clever their author is. Hey, if you were given sensible defaults you'd never get to learn how many different options there are! And if you're feeling overwhelmed, you should understand only GREAT MINDS can comprehend something this complex and advanced - and only GENIUS can create it! Don't touch, just stare in awe.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    61. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the worst posible. But generally pretty bad.

      In practice it tend sot be a: functional, elegant, intuitive; choose X.
      Engineers chose functional, designers choose elegant.

      The main problem is that X is usually less than 2.

    62. Re:Damn developers... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      XP was better. You didn't need an add-on to get a sane start menu.

      Also, if there's a way in 7 to show free space all the time in file explorer (or whatever it's called) I'd like to know it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    63. Re:Damn developers... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      If the UI caused confusion about which station had what control then it's a situation known as "design induced human error." It means the UI design sucked rocks.

      Not necessarily. I've seen plenty of people fail to understand simple and obvious UI.
      Without seeing the UI myself, I can't make a judgment either way. But nothing in TFS indicates the UI was inaccurate.

      Further, even if the UI is esoteric, everyone certified to operate it should have been trained on it. Even if the UI isn't optimal, a person trained to use it should know that. They should know how to tell if the throttle control is ganged or not.

    64. Re: Damn developers... by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      FTS: fourth US Navy collision this year

      I would beg to differ.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    65. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys sound retarted. gtfo. NT4 forever!

    66. Re:Damn developers... by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      And of course a little simulator training for the crew wouldn't have hurt either, but this was also a serious BAD UX problem.

      I'm wondering WHY the simulator training didn't expose and force a rewrite of the bad UX.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    67. Re:Damn developers... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Your complaints about modern UX are valid, but if you're moving to Linux and using the default desktop environment (GNOME 3), it's not going to be any better, and in fact it'll be worse in many ways.

      Commercial software tends to bring in UX designers who have a nasty habit of taking good software and rendering it totally worthless.

      The GNOME project epitomizes this.

    68. Re:Damn developers... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'd rather have the UI designed in consultation with the end users

      As long as you don't interpret "in consultation with" as "by". This does happen, and the results can be ... interesting.

      Unfortunately, digital gauges are useless when a pump's output is fluctuating rapidly while an analog one lets you estimate the average output while you address the casualty.

      Rookie error, that's 101 level stuff. Good that they eventually remedied it, but it shouldn't have made it off the drawing board.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    69. Re:Damn developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of a time I was riding with a friend in his sports car. We came to a 4-way stop at the same time as someone approaching from the left.

      The car on the left started through the intersection. My friend gunned it and laid on his horn, while the approaching driver slammed on his brakes to avoid hitting us.

      Me: "Why didn't you just let him go first?"
      Friend: "I had the right of way!"
      Me: "Physics has the right of way!"

    70. Re:Damn developers... by mcswell · · Score: 1

      "Windows 9 was bearable?" Indeed, Windows 9 had the best UI I never used.

    71. Re:Damn developers... by mcswell · · Score: 1

      I basically agree with you, except for one thing: the use of color. On a ship's bridge at night, the use of any color light except red is discouraged, because it harms your night vision. And since you want the controls to work the same day or night, you shouldn't use multiple colors in the daytime either.

      That said, I believe everything you're saying could have been done with black/ white/ gray, and done much better (more clearly) than it was apparently done.

    72. Re: Damn developers... by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Your uncritical acceptance of the (very old) lighthouse joke as a fact invalidates your post, and even your opinions on the matter.

      Came here to say something like this, but you beat me to it. Turns out I was typing on my other keyboard.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    73. Re:Damn developers... by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      +5 Perfect Sarcasm really should be a mod option, because even after determining that it is sarcasm, I still had "... but, this is the kind of shit many OSS developers say......." going through my mind...

  2. Many problems caused this by jfdavis668 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes, the displays could be improved, but there were many issues involved. The proper crew members were not on the bridge. The captain had let them sleep an extra hour, so the most experienced crew were still at breakfast. The crew involved were not experienced enough to make quick changes to the ship configuration in a critical situation. Lesson learned, don't get in a critical situation you know will happen with the back up crew. Another good point - don't have just one set of high quality bridge crew-members.

    1. Re:Many problems caused this by Calydor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A better point might be to not have an elite team and a standard team, but to mix and match between the different shifts so there's always a couple of highly experienced guys around.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Many problems caused this by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

      Because ships sail around all the time, you get overconfident in your abilities. Suddenly it is critical that you do something you rarely do, and you realize you're not as experienced as you think you are. Due to the long range of modern weapons, even ships sailing in tactical formations are far apart. It gives you plenty of time to think before you have to make a move. The leadership of the ship needs to train on things like this during the course of normal operations, so the crew gets experience with it. Have them change the helm configuration at unexpected times, and see if they do it to standard. Don't wait for a situation where you would normally perform that operation, they happen to infrequently.

    3. Re:Many problems caused this by Shinobi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One of the issues that has been highlighted is how little bridge watchkeeping experience US Navy officers(including CO's) can rack up in their careers, hour counts that wouldn't even qualify them as a 3rd mate on a commercial coast freighter, much less anything really big:

      https://www.usni.org/magazines...

      And from another article, published more recently:

      "Mitch McGuffie, a former U.S. surface warfare officer who served in an exchange with the U.K. Royal Navy for two years as a bridge officer, said that other navies place a higher value on navigation and ship handling than Americans.

      âoeI was the go-to office of the deck on my first tour, and I thought I knew a lot of stuff. And then I went to the Royal Navy and I went through their navigator school, and it was the hardest class that I have ever gone through, with a 50-percent attrition rate,â he said.

      British sailors specialize in a specific discipline at sea, unlike the U.S. surface warfare officers that are generalists. As a result, narrow specialties like navigation or bridge watches maybe given short shrift.

      âoePeople squeak through the system. They may be great officers and they may great engineers, but they might not have had a lot of time handling ships in busy waterways,â McGuffie told USNI News in an interview.
      âoeWe have guys that are commanding ships right now that have 400, 500 hours of bridge watchkeeping time in their career.â

      In contrast, as the bridge officer on a Royal Navy frigate for a six-month deployment, McGuffie stood watch for more than 2,000 hours â" all of them logged."

    4. Re:Many problems caused this by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      I'd like to offer another explanation. In hindsight, It seems like any idiot on the bridge could have over-ridden the auto-piloting controls and manually steered the ship in a direction other than directly at The Alnic.

      What happens in real life, in real time, during an emergency, is that people freeze up and don't always think to do the rational thing. Are more seasoned sailors less likely to fail in a high stress situation? Absolutely, and yet, for every Sully, there's a dozen well-trained individuals without nerves of steel.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    5. Re:Many problems caused this by tomhath · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In contrast, as the bridge officer on a Royal Navy frigate for a six-month deployment, McGuffie stood watch for more than 2,000 hours â" all of them logged."

      The guy averaged 77 hours per week? I find it hard to believe he was actually on watch while the ship was underway that much.

      In my experience (US Navy for four years) the biggest problem is that the enlisted men who stand duty on the bridge (lookouts, helmsmen, etc.) are not the brightest people you'll ever meet (to put it very politely).

    6. Re:Many problems caused this by tomhath · · Score: 0

      but to mix and match between the different shifts so there's always a couple of highly experienced guys around.

      That's what is normally done. But when a ship is entering or leaving port you always want the best team on watch. It sounds like the captain was trying to do that by giving some of the crew an extra hour of rest to have them ready when they got to Singapore; but he didn't anticipate the traffic jam he would go through in those straits, nor did he allow for having a helmsman who couldn't steer and control the ship's speed at the same time (the guy probably couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time either).

    7. Re:Many problems caused this by Shinobi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In the Royal Navy, officers are specialized for their roles, so as a bridge officer, yes, he'd spend most of his duty time on the bridge.

      And if they ran the Traditional 2 Section RN dogged watch, he'd have spent on average 36h on watch every 72 hour period. Which would give you 2160h watch hours logged.

    8. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > In my experience (US Navy for four years) the biggest problem is that the enlisted men who stand duty on the bridge (lookouts, helmsmen, etc.) are not the brightest people you'll ever meet (to put it very politely).

      No, if that is the case the problem is the fucking officers that are allowing them on the bridge in the first place. Why isn't the Captain doing his damned job?

    9. Re: Many problems caused this by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      A better point might be to not have an elite team and a standard team, but to mix and match between the different shifts so there's always a couple of highly experienced guys around.

      Almost sounds like the solution to the US two party system woes!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re: Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ultimate boss of the Captain should be fired for endangering American sailors lives. Oh wait, he was busy tweeting about football players for some reason or other. Quick, change the subject to Hillary Clinton!

    11. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ships need to sail, and you can't sail with an unmanned bridge.

    12. Re: Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main problem is that the US armed forces are staffed largely by folks too dumb to get a job where initiative is valued, and who join because it's the only way they can can get decent healthcare and other benefits.

    13. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody said anything about that. Are you actually implying that there aren't enough sailors that know their ass from their anchor to form a bridge crew competent enough to avoid running into shit?

    14. Re:Many problems caused this by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I think that even the manual controls are by-wire - and that was part of the problem. Your set of controls has to be the active ones before they do anything.

    15. Re:Many problems caused this by uldics · · Score: 1

      True for any northern Europe country. Navigation is trained for many hours and starting with basics, simplest terrestrial nav, only adding all the electronic devices by years. The watch officer gets quite good at evaluating which inputs weigh more and which can be dismissed. He has control himself not just by chain of command like US has. There in contrast you have full bridge with officers each doing his own narrow part and constantly reporting, which can quickly get dull as the watch officer only gets voice information for his decisions.

    16. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Background: Serve in the Royal Canadian Navy from 1981-1985 as a Radar Plotter, RP, aboard HMCS Huron (DDH 281) and HMCS Ottawa (DDH 229) with a duty station in the Operations Room, which is equivalent to the CIC on a US Navy vessel. As all sailors, I was trained in damage control and firefighting and well as having spent time a the Damage Control School as a safety person on the fire field training recruits.

      An RP mans the radar displays tracking contacts and reports contacts to the watch officer located on the bridge; a half-deck above the OPs room. As such, RPs have very good situational awareness, if they are doing their job!

      Based on prior experience, the Fitzgerald accident is far worse that the McCain collision described in the report. The actions of the Officer of the Deck on the Fitzgerald rise to the level of criminal negligence that resulted in the death of 9 sailors.

      Repeatedly, the OoD knowingly violated standing orders and procedures and fail to take the proper corrective actions that would have avoided the collision and loss of life. The CIC watch officer and crew through their inaction fail in their responsibility to inform the OoD of the situation that was developing in front of them. You can't miss a ship passing 650 yards from you! The CIC watch office should have been on the internal COM system asking WTF was going on up on the bridge.

      The McCain incident, based on the findings, does nor rise to the level of negligence, but strikes me as a typical loss of situational awareness based on human factors and could be addressed with additional training and the implementation of a aviation like Crew Resource Management process. Immediately following the collision, the crew quickly asserted positive control on the damage control and recovery operations, even though the hull breach was significantly larger than the one the Fitzgerald suffered.

      If I were on the Board of Inquiry for the Fitzgerald accident, I would recommend that the Officer of the Deck be charged with the criminally negligent death of the 9 seamen who perished as a result of their inaction and willful disregard for SOP when transiting a densely populated shipping channel. All other crew members on watch in on the bridge and CIC should be summarily court-martialed and dishonorably discharged from the Navy.

      The command team on the Fitzgerald, CO and XO, must also face charges for their failure to institute proper corrective action as a result of an earlier near miss. A properly applied RCA exercise would have likely uncovered serious deficiencies at all level, officers and enlisted, and would have likely prevented this tragedy. I'm not sure if they lack of action rises to the level of criminal negligence, but they should never be allowed to command any vessel, military or civilian, let alone act as crew in any capacity.

    17. Re:Many problems caused this by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Lesson learned, don't get in a critical situation you know will happen with the back up crew.

      It is a warship - critical situations can and do occur without notice! You should be expecting the unexpected at all times - ie should not have the ship at sea without competent people at the helm.

      Heads should roll here, as well as at the contractors and whoever signed of the thing as fit to go to sea..

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    18. Re:Many problems caused this by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      That and inexperienced navy captains. They're just passing for a brief stint on their career path and never build up the experience for the job.

    19. Re:Many problems caused this by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If the displays require that level of training and expertise to run in a critical situation, then the root cause has nothing at all to do with the crew. That should be relegated to a side issue for continuous improvement.

    20. Re:Many problems caused this by tomhath · · Score: 1

      That assumes the ship was at sea the entire six months. Unless they're fighting a war I don't know about it seems very unlikely a ship would be out that much.

    21. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the biggest problem is that the enlisted men are not the brightest people you'll ever meet

      Enlisted men are mixed bag - which is why there normally is an officer or two around. You don't expect too much from the enlisted. When they men mess up, the officer takes over (and possibly hands out punishments later). Do Americans leave the bridge entirely to enlisted men?

    22. Re:Many problems caused this by tomhath · · Score: 0

      Are you actually implying that there aren't enough sailors that know their ass from their anchor to form a bridge crew competent enough to avoid running into shit?

      Yes. We're not talking about college graduates here. More like flunked out of high school and couldn't cut it as a burger flipper.

    23. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe he meant that you cannot do the job unless you have previously logged 2,00 hours somewhere else before you get delployed for 6 months as a bridge office.

    24. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Around 92% of enlisted personnel have at least a high school education. That's greater than the general population of the US - 88%.

    25. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well they're people who volunteered to join the military when their country has over a dozen active wars so unimportant most citizens forget they're happening.

      Of coarse they're not very bright.

    26. Re:Many problems caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The guy averaged 77 hours per week?

      Well yes. When I was with the Royal Canadian Navy, I stood 1 one and two watches. Five hours on, five hours off, seven hours on then seven hours off. That's a total of twelve watch hours per day for each day at sea. Or 84 hours per week at sea. On a 30 day deployment that's 30*12 = 360 watch hours.

    27. Re:Many problems caused this by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be surprised if they ran out at sea for that long. Consider, for example, patrols down and around the Falkland Islands. I know they also had talk of 9 month deployments a few years ago.

  3. In civilspeak by nospam007 · · Score: 2

    It means that the navigation UI was overlaid by the Solitaire UI,

    1. Re:In civilspeak by bobbied · · Score: 1

      It means that the navigation UI was overlaid by the Solitaire UI,

      No no.. Angry Birds and Minesweeper..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re: In civilspeak by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      Not "2 Sailors 1 Cup?"

    3. Re: In civilspeak by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Nada, was beaten out by this year's hotness, "2 Marines 1 MRE".

  4. Seems to me this is a case of "too much going on" by guruevi · · Score: 1

    Whether or not it's a UI-issue, it seems to me whoever was on the bridge was simply confused about all that is going on and a variation of the mythical man-month. Splitting controls across multiple officers in multiple locations is harder to manage than just having a single person responsible. I understand the need for fail-over but that doesn't mean you can simply distribute higher loads.

    Not knowing whether you are dealing with a human error or a mechanical issue is another one of those things that just reeks of bad management and having too many cooks in the kitchen, the captain just couldn't keep track of all the information coming in and made bad decisions as a result.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  5. Some things never change by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    Who's controlling it?

    What's "it"?

    The ship!

    You are, right?

    Only the rudder.

    Whose controlling the propellers then?

    I thought you were.

    No, I thought you were!

    Let's ask Mikey. Mikey, are you controlling the propellers?

    I was earlier, but I thought you guys took control of them. See, the red icon is on.

    That's not a red icon, that's the object we are about to collide with...

    1. Re: Some things never change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hoo's on watch.

    2. Re:Some things never change by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Sounds familiar:

      Capn: "Left hand down a bit. Mr Pertwee"

      AB Pertwee: "Aye, Aye sir"

      (short pause, followed by long and loud crashing sound).

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    3. Re: Some things never change by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      Lumme Cap'n, do you think HMS Troutbridge will be ready for manoeuvres with the US Navy next week?

    4. Re:Some things never change by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

      yup, impressive, some things never change :)

      --
      "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
  6. Sounds like the Titanic by whoever57 · · Score: 1

    It sounds a little like the Titanic and the suggestion the it hit the iceberg because of confusion between the use of Tiller Orders and Rudder Orders.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  7. No cyber, no other nations? by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just design, humans, contractors and internal gov/mil policy.
    Who would have expected not having a good design and testing that design with crews would have been an issue?
    How to do a "navy".
    1. Your crews have to have skills. Find the best people to work in your navy. Give them the wages, support and education they need.
    2. Read up on how other winning nations did the "navy" design over the many, many years.
    Saying a ship is new or a different "design" is no excuse.
    The UK built its Dreadnought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... having to consider new designs and new ideas. The new parts got made with skill and people worked very hard to get the new design ready.
    Any unexpected issues got corrected by real engineers and top experts before they became an issue for the navy.

    Find the experts, test things a lot, have good crews and ensure the skill sets are ready.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:No cyber, no other nations? by tomhath · · Score: 1
      Gee, you make it sound so easy.

      2. Read up on how other winning nations did the "navy" design over the many, many years.

      Great idea. The US Navy has no experience at all, does it?

    2. Re:No cyber, no other nations? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking the issue is not enough simulator time for the bridge crews myself...

      Please tell me somebody had actually practiced the "We lost control of the rudder" scenario more than once and that the fault analysis tree and check lists included a "Determine where the rudder controls are supposed to be" step..

      What? NO simulator? Are you guys nuts?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:No cyber, no other nations? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Any well funded navy should have enough experts to study most of the more common crew issues by 2010.
      Human issues should have been studied and finally understood in the 1970-90's.
      Lack of sleep, needed skills, GUI design is not some unexpected new science that needs a few more decades to get ready....
      Is it budget cuts so the number of crew at any time with skills has been reduced?
      The GUI and systems are now too complex given budget reductions to the time to learn and understand the tasks?
      The crews do not get enough study time with complex systems?
      Sleep?
      Something unique to the US navy and for how long it works its crew over more hours?
      Are fewer people with less skills taking on more complex tasks with less sleep?
      Most nations would have worked out in the 1950-70's that complex new systems need new methods to get a fully professional crew ready.
      Then studied how humans on average work with tasks, GUI over time and what happens with less sleep.
      Add more expert crew for shorter shifts if performance issues got found. Ensure crew with skills get the sleep they need.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:No cyber, no other nations? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Commercial airlines found the funding and human performance professionals to work out what helps with their crews decades ago.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:No cyber, no other nations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The US Navy has no experience at all, does it?"

      Based on the number of fucking crashes of late, NO, it fucking doesn't.

    6. Re:No cyber, no other nations? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Who would have expected not having a good design

      Everyone. The dumber question: who would know what good design looks like? That ultimately is the key problem here. Everyone is aware of the importance of design but there petty few that are actually aware of what "good" looks like.

    7. Re:No cyber, no other nations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US Navy has no experience at all, does it?

      Failing to learn lessons is actually worse than not having the experience in the first place.

      So the problem is actually worse than a lack of experience.

  8. Not a UX issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This ship has had the same controls for decades. What has changed is the people operating it are incompetent!

    How much intelligence does it take to know you are steering, or not? To know if you turned down the power on one engine, or both?

    How stupid are you when the HELMSMAN can't manage direction and speed at the same time?

    1. Re:Not a UX issue by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Hey, to be fair.. There was only one track ball where the helmsman was and have you ever tried to play a FPS game using a single track ball?

      (sarcasm off)

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Not a UX issue by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Ah, a potential Counter Strike issue. A track ball would be taxing on the hand.

  9. Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by Shinobi · · Score: 5, Informative

    Despite Ars Technica's single-minded view on the incident, there were multiple levels of failure, including but not limited to:

    Insufficient lookouts
    Overcrowded bridge interior
    Insufficient training(What Ars Technica neglects(possibly deliberately) to mention is that parts of the crew on watch on the bridge were on temporary assignment from the cruiser Antietam, which according to the report has a different control system)
    Contrary to protocol, the CO issued orders, without announcing that he was taking direct control, and then didn't keep a firm grasp of the situation.
    Insufficient bridge watchstanding experience in general in the US Navy officer corps, partially due to the generalist nature of US Navy surface officers, rather than the specialization found in the Royal Navy for example. As highlighted by a USN officer: "âoePeople squeak through the system. They may be great officers and they may great engineers, but they might not have had a lot of time handling ships in busy waterways,â McGuffie told USNI News in an interview.
    âoeWe have guys that are commanding ships right now that have 400, 500 hours of bridge watchkeeping time in their career.â

    In contrast, as the bridge officer on a Royal Navy frigate for a six-month deployment, McGuffie stood watch for more than 2,000 hours â" all of them logged"

    The Fitzgerald was both better and worse. The OOD had 0 situational awareness, ignored technical tools such as AIS that'd have given him sufficient situational awareness, ignored warnings by the junior OOD, insufficient lookouts posted(none on starboard side), the OOD had no knowledge of the TSS(despite being based out of Yokohama!!!!), and the TSS was not mentioned in the navigation briefing.

    And, as on all USN surface warfare ships, non-pilots seem to be chronically sleep-deprived.

    So, you have systematic issues at multiple levels, of which the UI was just one small part

    1. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by techno-vampire · · Score: 5, Informative

      Contrary to protocol, the CO issued orders, without announcing that he was taking direct control, and then didn't keep a firm grasp of the situation.

      I've been in the US Navy and I've served Bridge Watches. Any time the Captain gives a direct order to the helm, or directly orders a change in speed, he automatically has the con, and retains it until he says otherwise. This is so that there's no time wasted in an emergency when the time saved may make the difference between a collision and a near miss. Yes, most of the time he goes through the proper protocol for taking over, but he's the only person who doesn't have to, and it's his decision whether or not there's time to jump through the hoops.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    2. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but as I mentioned, he didn't keep the grasp of the situation, and never handed conn back either, which causes confusion, which is part of the protocol breach.

    3. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Not keeping a firm grasp of the situation was a problem, of course. Not handing the con back wasn't. Once the Captain takes control, he has the con until he says otherwise, and he can keep it as long as he thinks he needs to. Nobody's going to question him if he keeps it longer than expected, although he might have to answer for his actions if he returns the con before the emergency is over.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    4. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but according to the report, after issuing the order about about reducing speed, he seems to have remained quiet, yet not handed Conn back, which leaves the crew in a confused state(or, more likely, it'll turn out to be like on the Porter recording that leaked, with massive confusion, everyone talking over each other etc).

    5. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Insufficient training(What Ars Technica neglects(possibly deliberately)

      I would deliberately not mention that too. If you require specific training for something as simple as deciding which direction you're pointing and how fast you're getting there then there's something very VERY wrong with the interface.

      The rest of what you talk about is a critical disaster management strategy. The fact that they were able to get to that position was the disaster initiator. You can't eliminate human error, so you don't consider it a true root cause of failure.

    6. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      After reading many, many accident investigation reports, I would say that the FAA strongly disagrees with you. Nearly every report includes the phrase "pilot error". As in, "after the left wing fell off, the pilot failed to maintain coordinated flight..."

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    7. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. You should never put "human error" as the cause. "Human error" is a symptom of some other conditions, and you need to keep asking "Why?"

      You can definitely put "insufficient training", especially if you can back that up with a lack of certifications, or expired certifications. That leads you directly to thinking about corrective actions, like training programs, certifications, refresher courses, live drills, etc.

    8. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      After reading many, many accident investigation reports, I would say that the FAA strongly disagrees with you. Nearly every report includes the phrase "pilot error". As in, "after the left wing fell off, the pilot failed to maintain coordinated flight..."

      That's called a contributing factor, not a root cause. And just because something is done in the FAA doesn't make it necessarily right, especially when it comes to something like the human error of not understanding the display that was presented to them.

      It's an interesting dichotomy given the FAA's long history of blaming the pilot while also having an even longer history of developing exceptionally good human interaction models that other industries look to keenly for guidance.

    9. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by mcswell · · Score: 1

      "something as simple as deciding which direction you're pointing and how fast you're getting there": I suspect you know you're over-simplifying, but in case others who read this don't know, in the water (and in the air, but I'm only familiar with navigation on water) it is nowhere near that simple. The direction you're pointing and the direction you're going are two different things--and if there's a current, they can be substantially different. Same for the speed you're making through the water vs. how fast you're getting "there". That's why (as I understand it) they had several degrees of rudder on.

    10. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No you're misunderstanding what I mean by training, and training on what specifically. Moving a ship is incredibly complex, as is operating a chemical plant. People most definitely need to be well trained in both.

      What people should need almost zero training in is the actual operation of the equipment they interact with. If I get an operator from a Exxon oil refinery in America, and sit that person down at an ethylene cracker in China, if that person can't instantly tell me if a control loop is in manual, auto or cascade, and if he can't instantly tell me the value the alarm points, and how to adjust the setpoint, then the HMI person seriously fucked up.

      I don't mean to say that he can run the other plant, but doing things like not knowing where your steering control went, combined with not immediately seeing that the controls are ganged should not be possible. Likewise the idea that the rudder position reset is something that was solved in industry with "bumpless transfer" back in the days before electronic control where plants were still huffing and puffing 3-15psi air tubes around rather firing off electrons in the direction of a computer.

      In that entire report where it talks of lack of training, not following maritime rules, and not communicating properly, the phrase that still sticks out to me the most is "lack of situational awareness".

    11. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      Everything requires training to get used to, even something as simple as knowing where to look for information. In this case, some of the bridge crew on duty were on temporary reassignment from a cruiser, which has different controls, but had not been properly trained. But the lack of training pertained to more than just the UI. Many sailors in the US Navy have not done some required qualification training etc, due to overburdening of duties and the optempo.

    12. Re:Ars Technica showing how far they've sunk again by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No, complex things require training to get used to. It doesn't matter if they were from a cruiser, an oil refinery or a spaceship, a control action should make immediately obvious if it is active or inactive. As someone else has posted: Which of these are ganged? Did you need to be a trained electrician to figure that out?

      There were multiple failures here, but lack of situational awareness stood out and a shithouse UI that defaults to non-ganged controls / doesn't make it immediately obvious, and two people who are sitting right next to each other don't immediately realise who has steering control just by glancing at their screens, that is not something that needs to be fixed by training. .... errr unless we're talking about training for the idiot designer of the HMI.

      The Navy could learn a lot from the Airforce.

  10. "Avoidable Accidents" by freeze128 · · Score: 1

    I wonder, what kind of Naval Collisions are unavoidable accidents?

    1. Re:"Avoidable Accidents" by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Exactly my question.
      And also, the helmsman had difficulty controlling both course and speed??? Of a ship with a top speed of 30knots??? Is the crew related to the Spaceballs' assholes?
      I mean no matter how "complicated" the UI is, this was still not a space shuttle, and people were actually piloting those...

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    2. Re:"Avoidable Accidents" by John.Banister · · Score: 1

      Perhaps ones that happen during warfare or immediately after a meteor strike or a rogue wave, or during an occurrence that was beyond the capability of the human mind to prepare for in advance. Sometimes it's necessary to prioritize other goals above avoiding accidents. Other times, accident causing problems come from out of a blind spot you didn't know you had.

  11. On-screen throttle controls? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    WTF is this, star trek?

    They don't need reconfigurable controls, do they? Wouldn't it make more sense to have discrete controls? They can be electronic displays if that's your thing, but probably shouldn't be.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:On-screen throttle controls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, physical controls are nice and clear and obvious, especially if they are dedicated per function, with dedicated indicators, and can be used blindly.

      But with software, you can redesign the whole thing cheaply every year according to the latest research results. e.g., try another configuration after a couple of crashes to see if it works better. With physical controls that would be much more expensive.

    2. Re:On-screen throttle controls? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      try another configuration after a couple of crashes to see if it works better.

      Ah, the Steam release model. What we need is something more modern than a Steam ship. You plan and figure this all out before building the giant ship.

    3. Re:On-screen throttle controls? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It wasn't the design of the controls which caused the problem, but rather if they were active on the station.
      If your follow up question is wouldn't it be better to only have controls in one place, let me answer with a resounding FUCK NO!

  12. The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Was Ultimately Caused By Failure Of the Captain, Commander Alfredo J. Sanchez, to maintain control of his Ship.
    That is why they fired his ass, and that of his XO.
    Ships have been navigated safely for Centuries before Trackballs and User Interfaces. The Command Structures are set, and everybody is supposed to know their job. Blaming the Tools for a piss-poor Carpentry job is common these days, but the Carpenter is ultimately responsible.
    And you know what? I don't blame the training either, or the lack of it. For a couple of decades now at least, when shit like this happens, training is blamed, and more training is laid on, and shit like this still happens. It ain't the training.
    Some people should just never go to Sea. They shouldn't fly Planes either. Hell, they shouldn't even drive a car. They have neither the aptitude nor the temperament, and this can't be trained into them, although that is the US Military way.

    1. Re:The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by techno-vampire · · Score: 2

      I don't blame the training either, or the lack of it.

      I do. As I've written elsewhere, I'm ex-Navy. If every shift of bridge crew had been properly trained, and there'd been regular drills, everybody would have known exactly what to do and would have done it automatically, without even needing to think about it. It's just like knowing how to hit the brakes and swerve to avoid a crash when you're driving your car. If you were properly taught in the first place, you don't think about it, you just do it, and this is no different. The big problem here is, people who don't think that the requirements for training and drills applies to them, when it's intended to apply to everybody without exception.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    2. Re:The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. You missed my bit about aptitude and temperament. The US Military has this Interchangeable Widget concept of manpower; and anybody can be trained to be a Navigator or a Fire Controlman. This simply isn't true. I fought this at my last job, which recruited largely from ex-Navy personnel, because they didn't mind the poor pay so much.
      I was in charge of, among other things, Procedures and Training. After a certain point, I was reporting directly to the DOE on certain issues concerning Procedures. DOE at that point emphasized Boilerplate and Documentation; my interest was in clarity of Writing.
      Writing a Procedure by Boilerplate is relatively easy, because it is always is set at the Lowest Common Denominator. Any Widget for any job. Just follow the Procedure; don't question why. Navy Training.
      Well, I set a higher Standard for Applicants, and fought for, and got them, higher pay. After three years, all of the old retired-from-Navy-farts found more relaxing employment elsewhere, which I helped them get. Since I wanted my Employees to actually understand what they were doing, and to show a past history of applying themselves, I made a BS Degree, or equivalent, a prerequisite. It didn't actually matter what the Degree was in, although I did prefer those with a Degree in the Hard Sciences. But perhaps my best most dedicated Operator didn't have a degree; he managed to get published without one. Another was still working on her Biochemistry BS, and I arranged her schedule around her classes.
      We were undergoing a long put-off Technological upgrade, and I needed experts in Electronics, Physics, Programming, Mechanical Engineering, Vacuum Technology, etc... so I went for Diversity. If I needed an Operator with a particular Skill, I advertised primarily for that Skill. Three of them, after two decades, are still there. For a Facility with a mediocre record previously, we started reaping Outstanding Performance Awards.
      I fought for, and won, the right to not call a group of related operations a Procedure. (The DOE can get quite tedious when something is called a Procedure.) By the time I moved on, we were down to only 13 Procedures, based on whether the operations could cause physical harm, cost more than $10K to remediate, or get our name in the Papers unfavorably. For the last of that decade, we had a spotless Safety Record.
      For the Record, all the ex-Operators were older than me. So were all of the replacements that I hired. This turned out not to be a problem. I didn't give Orders, I culled Consensus. I also brought Cookies to mandatory Meetings.

      " If every shift of bridge crew had been properly trained, and there'd been regular drills, everybody would have known exactly what to do and would have done it automatically, without even needing to think about it."
      And that is where this Navy consistently screws up. People need to think about what they are doing. If they feel something is going wrong, they have to have the freedom to request a Stop Work, without consequences. Every single action of the Crew here demonstrates just what happens when they encounter something that they haven't been "Trained" for, because it is impossible to unthinkingly Train for every possible, or seemingly impossible, iteration.

      Pay attention to what others outside your sphere of experience have to say about this, especially the comments from the senior members of the Royal Navy. This Accident was avoidable, but the people on that Bridge were a disaster waiting to happen. They shouldn't have been on that Bridge; they possibly shouldn't have been in that Navy. They had neither the Aptitude, nor the Temperament, and those traits are innate.
      BTW, outside of the Navy, Sanchez would be up before an Admiralty Court for Criminal Negligence. All that the Navy did was reassign him. Joseph J. Hazelwood was convicted for his part of the Exxon Valdez disaster, and nobody there was killed. Hazelwood never captained a vessel again.

    3. Re: The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But your own Procedures were Flawed by Too Many Caps, leading to confusion over Proper Nouns and What was Important.

    4. Re: The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you train Them on Inappropriate capitalization too?

    5. Re:The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      The US Military has this Interchangeable Widget concept of manpower; and anybody can be trained to be a Navigator or a Fire Controlman.

      And again, not so. Very early in Boot Camp, you take a series of aptitude tests, so that the Navy can find out what you're good at and what you're not. Then, they compare your aptitudes with their needs and come up with the best fit they can. That way they don't try to train a sailor who can't do math to be a Quartermaster's Mate, responsible for navigation, or a dyslexic as a Yeoman, a clerical job.

      People need to think about what they are doing. If they feel something is going wrong, they have to have the freedom to request a Stop Work, without consequences.

      Oh, yeah, that's going to go over real good when the helmsman tries to issue a Stop Order when the ship's on a collision course because he thinks the ship should be turning Port instead of Starboard, or when the ship's in combat. You may have worked with people who were ex-Navy, but you clearly have no understanding of how the Military works, or why.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    6. Re: The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Procedural Keywords. Know them. Use them.
      You don't write much in the way of Technical Documentation, do you? This isn't the bloody Chicago Sun-Times. The "Rules Of Capitalization" that you cling to were written for Newspaper Reporters. For instance, the most recent edition of "The Chicago Manual Of Style" has gone all out on a crusade against Capitals. The Internet is now the internet. Hell it is.
      Style guides are just that- guides. Let us all know when L'Academie Anglaise comes back with definitive rulings.
      In the early days of Computer Indexing, about the only way the primitive Algorithms could tell if a Keyword could be extracted is if it was Capitalized other than at the beginning of a sentence. This formed a feedback loop. Writers in dense Technical Fields started Capitalizing what they thought should be indexed. So, Names, Places, Fields of Study, Ideas, Technical Terms, etc. were all Capitalized. Note that the early Physicists at the University of Chicago did _not_ use the Style Guides developed there, they used the University of California Style Guides, which differed in significant respects, especially when it came to Footnotes and Endnotes. (Chicago used Footnotes; California used Endnotes. Mostly.)
      These weren't the only Style Guides. For instance, the APS were quite strict here, because they were early adopters of the primitive Electronic Compositing machines, which were easily confused. It would be decades before NROFF, TROFF, and eventually LaTeX, (All developed mostly at Berkeley and Stanford.), made it possible to just sit at a Terminal and write and layout a Publication-Ready paper. (Inline References are still a mess, where ibids are tossed around like confetti.)

      of course there were outliers the young idiots who lived outside of village fringes who insisted that since c and unix were lower case everything else should be too and they werent too fond of punctuation either unless something boolean was involved they didnt last very long in the newsgroups bt thy liv on n instnt mssging

      Since you have nothing at all to contribute here, other than displaying your utter ignorance about Style Guides, may I suggest you find a Capital, say Moscow, the Kremlin is suitably knobby, sit on it, and spin.

    7. Re: The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You don't write much in the way of Technical Documentation, do you?

      You are posting on an internet forum, not writing a Technical Instruction Manual.

      Most modern casual written English avoids capital letters as far as possible, it's nothing to do with following style guides.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re:The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by mcswell · · Score: 1

      "Ships have been navigated safely for Centuries before Trackballs and User Interfaces." I think I basically agree with your post, but: ships have also been navigated unsafely for that time, see for example the Honda Point disaster.

    9. Re:The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Blaming the Tools for a piss-poor Carpentry job is common these days, but the Carpenter is ultimately responsible.

      I'm sorry, but this is complete BS.

      In this particular case, there were many reasons these crashes happened other than UI (poor and nonexistent training being a really big one, plus non-usage of AIS). But this stupid saying really irks the hell out of me. If you actually think it makes any sense, then I have a challenge for you:

      I want you to take a bunch of 2x4s, all 8 feet long, and cut them into 4-foot pieces. For your tools, I give you a spoon and a fork.

      Come back after you've done this simple task and tell me that the carpenter is responsible and shouldn't blame his tools.

      If you want partial credit, I'll let you use an orbital sander.

    10. Re:The Fourth US Navy Collision of the Year... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Are you German? This is an English-language forum. In English, we don't capitalize nouns, except for proper nouns. This may seem odd to you if you're used to German, where all nouns are capitalized, but that's how we do it.

  13. A bloody great Wheel for steering by aberglas · · Score: 1

    Makes a pretty good UI.

    This sort of thing has crashed airplanes. When they went from yokes to joysticks. There was the air France one where an idiot pilot held the joystick back and the other pilot had no way of knowing.

    Crude and simple works.

    That said, on traditional naval boats, the helmsman working the wheel had no idea of where the ship is going. Often cannot ever see out the front. Look outs tell the officer, the officer tells the helmsman a course, and the helmsman is just like an auto pilot. This has cause other accidents.

    That bit about having trouble controlling throttles and steering at the same time is dubious. Traditionally that would be done by many different people, each trained to do one tiny task -- naval ships have huge crews. But how hard can it be to handle them together? Presumably the helmsman has had some training and practice before taking primary responsibility.

    1. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      But how hard can it be to handle them together? Presumably the helmsman has had some training and practice before taking primary responsibility.

      I assumed that by now we would have drones flying station around all military vessels, providing external camera views being among their duties. Alas.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re: A bloody great Wheel for steering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not a bad idea. You can make it cheap too, by making it a tethered inflatable balloon or dirigible, with power supplied by the ship to enable it to keep up.

      Published here so not patentable.

    3. Re: A bloody great Wheel for steering by aberglas · · Score: 1

      The time you need visibility is foul weather. Drones, although fashionable, are not going to do it.

      But if you have a bureaucracy inside the bridge, it does not matter how many systems can identify target if people do not communicate in complex ways to effect an action. In this case, they knew the other ship was there. They just ran straight into it anyway.

    4. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      In an Airbus aircraft, if the aircraft receives input on both yokes, there is an audible warning of "DUAL INPUT". Also, holding down the autopilot disconnect switch of either yoke causes a "PRIORITY LEFT (or RIGHT)" audible warning so everyone is aware who has control. And if the FWS system fails (that's the one that gives audible warnings), there are still visual warnings which alert the same thing.

      Also, in the case of dual input, the control systems average the inputs. For example, if the captain gives full right and the F/O gives full left, the aircraft will stay in its previous configuration.

      What caused the Air France crash was the pilot trusting his "feeling" for the aircraft's attitude in 0/0 conditions over what the aircraft was telling him. With multiply redundant systems in place, it's a safe bet to trust what the aircraft is telling you. That pilot chose... poorly.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    5. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      Sorry. s/yoke/joystick/g;

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    6. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      What I don't get is how averaging the inputs would ever make sense.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    7. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's this thing called radar...

    8. Re: A bloody great Wheel for steering by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The time you need visibility is foul weather. Drones, although fashionable, are not going to do it.

      Drones (notably multicopters) can fly in relatively foul weather. If all you do is waterproof the electronics and spray the motors with lubricant before every flight, they will cope with environments which would ground any other kind of flying craft. And what they provide is not visibility (which you have with your own eyes) but perspective. Think of every video game you've played with a third person perspective. It makes it a lot easier to do certain kinds of things, right? Like park a truck? Or pilot a boat.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The only thing that really makes sense is to have physical controls with force feedback that makes it obvious if they are doing anything. In my mind the ideal would be to be able to set every redundant control to either be off or on, with the FF being used to show when a control is disconnected (just flops around when thrown) or slaved together with other controls (rotates/slides in sync with the controls at other stations.) You obviously need a way to assign control of a function to a specific station so that another station's malfunctioning controls don't interfere with the operation of the vessel, but it sounds like they have that part already.

      In the Airbus incident where one pilot was holding back the stick and the other didn't know about it, the lack of feedback is what caused the problem. Implementing digital controls can provide superior results; consider the example of aircraft which literally cannot be flown without advanced avionics, like multicopters or the F-22. But they have to actually be at least as good as the original, which is not a given — take electric power steering (please.)

      Mechanically linked or hydraulic controls which move in tandem because they are physically connected to one another offer instant tactile feedback of interference or disconnection, and a digital control scheme should offer the same or it is inferior. This is the reason why I personally would always advocate against touch screen controls for actually controlling the fine motion of any vehicle. It's a common science fiction trope to fly a ship with button pressed and then have an analog control pop up out of the console any time anything delicate is being done, but there's a good reason for that. There's just nothing like a physical control, unless you can just have a computer do it for you. And even then, so far you need a human standing by in case something goes wrong.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Controls without feedback are manageable - A320 is a very safe airplane and nowadays the most common aircraft in its class. Fly by wire and envelope protection are one of the reasons why it is so safe and like previously mentioned, there is a clear warning about dual input.
      It is the averaging of the input that doesn't make sense. I cannot think of any situation where this "feature" would be of any use.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    11. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Makes a pretty good UI.

      Makes for a horrible UI in a computer aided control environment.

    12. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't want a mandatory "I have control" button because in an emergency you might forget to press it causing the window of opportunity to correct the problem to pass, and averaging the controls prevents oscillation between the controls when they are in conflict.

    13. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It is the averaging of the input that doesn't make sense. I cannot think of any situation where this "feature" would be of any use.

      What if one pilot is trying to fly into the ground? The other pilot countersteering will prevent that. Having a simple "take control" button won't work, because you'd have to have one on each side, since there's no way to know beforehand which pilot is going to go nuts. So averaging the inputs seems to me to make some sense here, to allow counteracting the nutty pilot's commands, and give the rest of the crew enough time to hit him over the head with something.

    14. Re:A bloody great Wheel for steering by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      It is not a Boeing, so due to the envelope protection steering an Airbus into the ground would take so much time that the crew would not need any counteracting. The Germanwings 9525 suicide took 10 whole minutes because the flight computer simply did not allow the aircraft to sink faster.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  14. One thing I really respect about the military... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is that they are willing to look long and hard at their mistakes so they can do better in the future. That's
    an incredibly valuable trait. (Disclaimer: never served, but spent many years working with military and
    ex-military).

  15. Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The three stoog's would be proud

    Impressive the the Navy fessed up.

  16. Where was the ECDIS by MountainLogic · · Score: 2

    I was part of the team that shipped the first ECDIS' to the the Navy over 20 years ago. Electronic Chart Display and Information System are the marine equivalent to aircraft automated flight navigation controls. ECDIS was in response to the Valdez finding a rock and folks asking why can ships' navigation systems do that planes can do? The charts are "smart" and will not let you plan a route over too shallow of an area. I know our product was on the Enterprise and Constellation 20 years ago. Why are they not on these smaller ships? FYI, back then the navigator on these nuclear aircraft carriers (yes there was a specific officer assigned to this) also had a sextant, watch, paper charts and compass, just in case.

    1. Re:Where was the ECDIS by FrankHaynes · · Score: 1

      We all saw what Matt Decker did to the Constellation: a wrecked ship and a dead crew.

      --
      slashdot: A failed experiment.
    2. Re:Where was the ECDIS by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Why is this relevant? It wasn't a charting issue in the slightest. It was a control issue. The plan was just fine.

      I'm more interested in who would implement a controller that:
      a) doesn't show information about if it is currently in control
      b) doesn't show information about who currently has control
      c) doesn't bumplessly transfer to another station but instead assumes you wanted to go straight ahead
      d) doesn't display if engine speed is ganged or not.
      e) assumes the default is that you want to control engine speed independently screwing up your steering instead of defaulting to ganged.

    3. Re:Where was the ECDIS by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

      ECDOS does a lot more than just charting. They include searing, radar target plotting and collision alert/avoidance. The ECDIS should have reported have reported a imminent collision or at least a radar target tending into the planned/current path of the vessel. The ECDIS should have set the oogha horns off.

    4. Re:Where was the ECDIS by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yes the report does identify that the horns may have helped avoid the collision, but that doesn't fundamentally change that human decisions and misunderstanding of the control system lead people to manually accidentally steer the ship into the collision. It *may* have mitigated the problem, but another supervisory control system when all others were disabled and actively fought against would unlikely have helped maintain control.

    5. Re:Where was the ECDIS by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

      The ECDIS should have also set-off internal bridge horns to get everyone's attention.

    6. Re:Where was the ECDIS by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      An alarm that is untargetted is useless in a situation of chaos, it only serves a purpose in a generally organised and peaceful time.

      That is one of the biggest issues facing industry right now, how to best reduce the alarms people get to a point where they actually make sense when something is going wrong.

      I don't think anyone was in any doubt in the 5 min leading up to the collision that they needed to do something. The problem was the lack of information they had about what they were doing combined with the actions they were taking were making the situation worse.

  17. It might have been Googles material design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Light gray text on a white backgroud, even I would have crashed and android ship.

  18. Oy, configurable controls... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 2

    I guess it sounds good in theory to have controls that can be configured to allow a single person or multiple people, as needed, drive the ship. Until this happens. What's the point? One less body on the bridge, saving a few bucks? On a warship that costs billions of dollars, a few redundant personnel at the controls seems like cheap insurance.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    1. Re:Oy, configurable controls... by LesFerg · · Score: 1

      I would electrify the controls which are not enabled, then if somebody tried to use the wrong one there would be instance feedback without relying on visual indicators.

      --
      If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
    2. Re:Oy, configurable controls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could still work if you have a big button next to each one to take control for that station, or if every control is always in control unless specifically disengaged.

    3. Re:Oy, configurable controls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make that a big button illuminates when engaged. Now -that- would be a proper starting point for proper UX design. Of course one would then have to test said control in a simulator, or on a 20 foot real yacht, or ideally both, with multiple crews, both experienced and in-experienced, in stressful situations, and make sure everyone gets it, and the button is is the right position, illuminates the correct colour, at the correct brightness for the time-of-day, and at the various angles of the sun, to always be visible, without causing eye-fatigue, or reducing night vision.

      Basically, good UX design starts with understanding how people think, and what has been proven to work, and not work. Then testing to validate the assumptions, and refining from there.

      For some situations this level of testing would be overkill, but to maximize effectiveness in battle situations, potentially with large portitions of the crew incapacitated, it is absolutely worth it and justified.

      It also isn't like we haven't gone through similar control design problems with cars.

    4. Re:Oy, configurable controls... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What's the point? One less body on the bridge, saving a few bucks?

      Actually this is more expensive. But the body on the bridge thing is interesting especially in a war type situation. A ship that can be crewed at a minimum is critical. But ultimately it wasn't even a case of the number of crew or redundant personnel, but rather redundant systems.

      The entire control fuckup seems to be based on the idea that you could transfer control between two stations. This has been fairly standard in everything from large ship navigation to chemical plants, or even basic things like breweries since the 80s.

  19. Metaphorical McCain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The USS John McCain, much like its namesake, is apparently confused, bumbling, dangerous, and incompetent.

  20. What a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right! It sure is great that the US military learned from the Russians to not invade Afghanistan. What a winner. And how about when they totally learned from the Korean War and then declined to invade North Vietnam? And all the CIA color change revolutions have worked out GREAT for the Middle East. Thanks, US military; you totally got it all right and surely did not cause the death of millions as a result of Washington imperialism.

    1. Re: What a joke by mixed_signal · · Score: 1

      Those are political decisions for the most part.

  21. Brannigan strikes again! by thygate · · Score: 2

    I'm pretty sure the Officer of the Deck's name was Zapp Brannigan.

  22. EADS by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1, Troll

    Who knew that the Airbus Consortium designs ships for the United States Navy?

  23. Too many cooks by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

    ..in the kitchen. Look, the organization of a bridge crew and the controls of a naval ship are archaic, a vestige of a passed age when all those controls were mechanical.

    You don't need all those damn people on the bridge anymore. Even Star Trek has it all wrong, you just don't need that many people with the ways we can control everything via a computer workstation. Having all these people just introduces delays in ship's response time to the Captain's orders, and human error.

    So there you go, DoD, there's your solution, get rid of most of the bridge crew, streamline the Captain's control center so (s)he can properly control all the ship's systems. Better response time, less error, less people, all wins.

    1. Re:Too many cooks by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Read the report, there's nothing of the sort. The entire issue could have been resolved by one person knowing that he moved his steering command to another panel, and a follow up with another person knowing that his recently enabled steering and propulsion system had it's propulsion setup differently than expected.

      The report itself chronicals if anything that the cooks and chefs all actually worked quite well together. From the moment steering was incorrectly assumed lost, to 45 seconds later the bridge being reconfigured to have steering independently controlled by someone elsewhere. There were absolutely no unreasonable delays between orders and execution at any stage.

      There was however a great lack of situational awareness by 2 key people caused by their control system giving them garbage information.

  24. If it's not clear, it's bad by definition by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > The helmsman sent all control (not just throttle) the the other station.

    And neither he nor the anyone else looking at the situation didn't realized all control had been sent away, because the UI didn't gray out of the inactive controls or anything. Two people looked at it and couldn't tell it had been inactivated. Guess which controls are disabled here:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    > The second helmsman throttled down only one engine.

    When he too couldn't tell that a) he had control of steering or that b) the engined weren't ganged. Again, try to figure out which controls are ganged and which aren't:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IOWi...

    It's not hard to make it obvious.

    1. Re:If it's not clear, it's bad by definition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who provided this software? CSC or what?
      Sorry, you only bought the $2billion steering wheel, not our 'enterprise' $4billion version.

    2. Re:If it's not clear, it's bad by definition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those examples are so boring and intuitive. A modern design has all the UI elements drawn with light gray text onto white background and people can point and click on the elements to find out which are functional and which are not. That dimming of nonfunctional UI elements is so 2000's, modern UI's don't use such distractions; they engage the user to experiment and find out by trial and error what works and what not.

    3. Re:If it's not clear, it's bad by definition by mcswell · · Score: 1

      I know you were being sarcastic, but geez...it sounds so *real*, esp. the part about "engaging" the user. Reminds me of the Navy instructions back in the early 70s: "Operate the O N / O F F control to the O N detent." It was a fake, but it was funny because it sounded so much like the real thing.

  25. Its obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They were running Gnome software that follows their design guidelines!

    The poor sailor guy couldn't figure out how to operate it!

  26. God help us in war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One has to wonder if the training is that bad, or the controls are that complicated? In either case we have a problem controlling ships and we may have a case of over using technology so much so that we can't fly our planes, ships, and whatever else and that could be a big problem in the stress of war. If we can't handle it in peaceful conditions.

    1. Re: God help us in war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should just hire the crew of the Orville or those Spaceballs assholes.

  27. Re:Seems to me this is a case of "too much going o by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    Splitting throttle control from steering was a well intentioned move, executed (and verified) very badly.

    I believe this kind of separation of the two types of controls used to be fairly common, in the days of old physical levers and such controls.

    In any case, after mistakes were made, the next problem was that no one was able to come quickly at correct "state awareness", and that is down to both bad training, bad procedures or procedure following, AND terrible UI design on the computerized control consoles.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  28. Let me bloody guess by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    They brought in some material UI "clean" designers - and all the fucking things they need to interactive with, have UNLABELLED icons and they're all the same bloody colour.

    Also there's animations anywhere and everywhere they can put them.

  29. bumper cars? by edxwelch · · Score: 1

    Maybe they should just design US destroyers with a huge rubber skirt, like bumper cars. Then cargo ships would just harmless bounce off them.

    1. Re:bumper cars? by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      I was thinking more of a game with submersible water sprites (2-men boats, relatively fast), with your commanding officer given a paintball gun. If he hits you (your sprite, with his sprite or the a paintball, depending on his mood), you don't drive that week. Learn to watch all sides pretty quick ~and below~...

  30. It's a win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean the navy may not be able to pilot a ship, but they are dam sure top notch in gender inclusiveness a d divers8ty affirmation. I for one don't want out military messed up with the hostile male dominated ideas of warfare. We want our soldiers designing th3 best uniforms and learning about the importance of being safe and inclusive

  31. Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows 7 GUI?

  32. Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A case of automation bias gone awry.

  33. I'm confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do these ships no longer post a watch anymore?

    Like, guys with binoculars to look at the seas around them for obstacles?

  34. Re:One thing I really respect about the military.. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    is that they are willing to look long and hard at their mistakes so they can do better in the future. That's an incredibly valuable trait. (Disclaimer: never served, but spent many years working with military and ex-military).

    I am not an expert, but I thought the whole point of the story is that they keep crashing their boats? This would suggest they aren't in fact learning from their mistakes, or is each crash caused by something new and unique?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  35. DII-COE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember working with that back in the day - the UI was pretty horrible (NAVSSI segment in particular).

    That said, this sounds like a training issue.

  36. we happy few by itchybrain · · Score: 1

    The problem is ship trajectory is controlled by the elitist few. They should give each seaman a remote steering wheel so the ship will veer based on majority vote.

  37. Liberian-flagged chemical carrier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Liberian-flagged chemical carrier Alnic MC.... the only way to stop and check what this guy has on board without international incident was to do what they did...crash the F@#@3 and then make up the story nobody can sail the ship

  38. Nothing new under the sun by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    A book written 20 years ago explains it.

    In their terms, (computer) + (ship) = (computer)

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  39. sure shoot the UI designer by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    but it's hard to imagine after months or years using a system that is this flawed that there had not been previous occasions somewhere in the fleet where a misunderstanding of this nature occurred and everyone had a good laugh about it because they didn't hit anything.

    My point is that after these issues occurred in the past the crew should have been aware of this pitfall and done something to mitigate it, even if it meant putting a line of masking tape over the screen of the console that had no control - I don't know, but some kind of low tech solution that everyone on the bridge understood and verified.

    If however, after millions of ship-hours of use this is really is the first time this issue arose then maybe it's harder to mess up operating the UI than the Navy are letting on

    --
    Nullius in verba
  40. If this can happen now, what about in a war?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This just seems incredulous - What if they were in a war situation?! If the system is so easy to get confused on in a calm peace-time environment, how the hell are they going to use it in a hectic battle situation!?

  41. All at peace time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can only imagine how this unusable software, clueless crew, and out-of-control captain would have fared when actively fired on by a couple of enemy ships/boats/planes while trying not to get killed and actually destroy the enemy. What a complete multimillion dollar JOKE