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Uber Drivers Have Rights on Wages and Time Off, UK Panel Rules (apnews.com)
Uber suffered a blow on Friday to its operations in its biggest market outside the United States when a British panel ruled in London rejected the company's argument that its drivers were self employed. The decision, which affirmed a ruling made last year, means that Uber will have to ensure its drivers in Britain are paid a minimum wage and entitled to time off, casting doubt on a common hiring model in the so-called gig economy that relies on workers who do not have a formal contract as permanent employees. From a report: Judge Jennifer Eady rejected Uber's argument that the men were independent contractors, because the drivers had no opportunity to make their own agreements with passengers and the company required them to accept 80 percent of trip requests when they were on duty. The tribunal, Eady wrote in her decision, found "the drivers were integrated into the Uber business of providing transportation services." The ride-hailing service said it has never required drivers in the U.K. to accept 80 percent of the trips offered to them and that drivers make well above the minimum wage. Employment lawyers expect the case to be heard by higher courts as early as next year.
I just took like 2 weeks off from Uber. Time off? Bro, hit the switch from online to offline. Tada, you have time off. In fact you can take a 15 minutes break, 1 hour, 2 weeks, whatever. And minimum wage? If you're sitting there for an hour and no jobs come up, that's called not working.
firemen are paid to wait for the call so why not for other people who provide on call services?
sounds like a Mr.Burns joke from the Simpsons.
Because firemen are required to wait and Uber drivers aren't.
If I don't eat at McDonald's I don't pay McDonald's.
And if they don't want to serve me food for 2 weeks I'm definitely not paying them for those 2 weeks.
Same is true if I had a meal plan somewhere.
My job (software consultant) says they want me sooo bad they'll pay for me to have 3 weeks off. The US gov doesn't make them do that.
So why is a gov MAKING some businesses PAY for services in exchange for NOTHING?
Another place where we are paying the government for someone else's generosity.
Because firemen are required to wait and Uber drivers aren't.
Ah, so clarity is needed around necessity? That's easy.
Go to any major city that has a long-established history with ride-sharing services and immediately shut every single one of them down.
You would find proposed legislation in front of the mayor within hours, re-defining ride-sharing as "critical infrastructure", with the pitchfork-wielding masses storming city hall by midnight...
Uber is the one contracting the drivers. The drivers are using their own equipment, at their own cost, and setting their own work schedule.
The drivers no more get to negotiate prices with their passengers than an independent contractor that's hired by a construction firm gets to negotiate their prices with the construction firm's clients.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Because firemen are required to wait and Uber drivers aren't.
Hmmm . . . well, maybe firemen could become hobby pyromaniacs in their spare time, and thus reduce the waiting time . . . ?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Because firemen are required to wait and Uber drivers aren't.
how convenient to create a system designed from scratch to screw its employees
you are literally insane if you desire to win the race to the bottom
It has one major problem There is always someone who will take a job for a lower rate than you need.
This lead to unionization, insurance, paid time off etc. etc
If I am signed into the Uber app AND the Lyft app but don't accept any jobs, do they both have to pay me minimum wage?
I can understand why a business owner would want to treat their employees unfairly. But why would someone who works for another object to being treated fairly? After all labor laws are the bare legal minimum yet that's too much for some. And no, you shouldn't be allowed to demand more immigrants to undercut people already here just so you can buy your 3rd Mercedes.
Ridiculous. Uber did not exist ten years ago. Plus 95% of the population have never used them.
In many small towns, the firemen are part time workers who are "on call" from their day job. They only get paid for time spent either training or responding to alarms. They usually keep some equipment, such as extinguishers and first aid kits, in their home or workplace, so they can go directly to a reported problem in their neighborhood, rather than going to the station first. This generally works well, since response time is often the most important factor in an emergency.
Disclaimer: When I was growing up, my dad was a volunteer fireman.
maybe firemen could become hobby pyromaniacs in their spare time, and thus reduce the waiting time . . . ?
They already thought of that. About 100 firefighters a year are convicted as serial arsonists in North America.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
It was about time somebody put a stop to this 'business model' which amounts to pure exploitation.
I am all for innovation and new business models, but what uber was doing is crass and blatantly illegal in the UK. They've stretched intepretations of labour laws, stretched definition of what a contractor is, not to mention licensing and passenger and driver safety. Above all, it's a wrong and exploitative model and I hope the UK courts will continue to enforce laws in this and all similar cases.
you are literally insane if you desire to win the race to the bottom
Judging by this site, a lot of Americans value exactly that type of freedom and will fight adamantly for it. It boggles my mind.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
they may be forced to schedule shifts and take any ride that comes up. But uber can be forced to pay full mileage / some kind of liable insurance coverage / cell phone reimbursement (very in us states) / toll fees / etc.
(based us laws don't know how it works in the uk)
Part timers vs fake 1099's (some people are working the full 40 hours)
The 1099 in name only needs to stop good think the UK is cracking done on that.
Lot's of cable systems use middle man to have there cable guys be 1099's when they have little control over the pay or workload.
In the UK, if you are on-call and required to stay at or close to a workplace, you must be paid. Volunteers have no such constraints.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Well, Firemen are occupying that waiting time with a bunch of stuff that is also their job like physical training, or maintaining vehicles.
I couldn't find details on the implication of this ruling. Does this mean that if I sign up to be a Uber driver in the UK, I can flip the switch to online, never take a single rider, and Uber is required to pay me a minimum wage for doing nothing more than sitting at my desk doing my regular day job? How do traditional taxi services in the UK handle things? Are those drivers paid by the hour? And if so what repercussions do they face if they never take a fare? Can they be easily fired?
If Uber drivers have to be employees because they don't get to negotiate with the end-client, then it sounds like Amazon Mechanical Turk is in the same situation.
Must make sure they pay all users completing hits at least £7.20 / Hour.
In the UK, if you are on-call and required to stay at or close to a workplace, you must be paid.
Uber drivers are not required to stay at or close to a workplace. They can go offline anytime they want.
Even when online and waiting for a fare, they are not required to stay in their car, just nearby. I am rarely more than 100m from my car, so that doesn't seem like much of a burden.
Uber may not have existed but Uber's market did. Ride-sharing is not a new phenomenon. Why does it always come as some big shock to Americans that companies that want to operate in European markets actually have to follow established European law?
after graduating from University of Washington, I haven't had more than two days off contiguous in that time, which is more than thirty years! Why should someone that just drives a car get more time off?
who don't take enough rides or who turn down rides that aren't profitable. Uber does lots of stuff to control it's workforce. Sorta like an employer (hmmmm....).
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if Uber didn't tightly control working hours by punishing drivers for not accepting unprofitable trips or not accepting enough trips. Uber has been caught doing both and I imagine a subpoena could find lots of other examples of Uber dangling carrots to force certain behavior if we actually had a working labor board anywhere on earth.
I could probably come up with other reasons why Uber drivers are, for all intents and purposes, employees, but I'll give other's a chance to chime in. Also, you probably don't want to break the employee/employer social contract. Maybe in the UK. In the States it's probably a bad idea. Guns we got, mental health services and a safety net, not so much...
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I'm a UK IT Contractor and like most I use a company, my company pays me a salary even if I'm not actually doing billable work. I actually take around 3 months paid leave each year. That is my choice. My company charges my clients a billable rate around ten times the UK minimum wage. This sort of setup is common with contractors in the UK, some take less time off, some more, that is their choice, they get paid a annual salary that is well above the minimum wage including leave. I could work a couple months a year and I would still be better off than these drivers.
Uber drivers are employees, that is what this case has determined, Uber think they should be able to operate under US conventions, the UK employment law has ruled they cannot.
Probably because all the other US companies already in Europe flout EU law.
Uber suffered a blow on Friday to its operations...
That opening line says it all. Uber's business model is treat employees as shitty as it possibly can.
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
The real problem in situations like this is the classic one of an imbalance of power. Basically, certainly in this case, the employer has nearly all the power. Thatâ(TM)s why there are regulations of various kinds, to even out the balance somewhat. Thatâ(TM)s what unions are for, and sometimes they get too powerful and then they start misusing their power.
Itâ(TM)s all about balance.
"Cats like plain crisps"
It's not there to provide flexibility, but to dodge benefits. Those that have flexibility are those that have it anywhere. Perhaps it should DIAF.
"Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
I think that 100m counts as "close", don't you?
So, these drivers are somewhere near their car, monitoring their cellphones for rides. How is that not on-call?
In traditional employment in the UK, you could be in a cinema, or down the pub and still expect to be paid for your time if you are on-call at that time.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
What aspect of this is 'ride-share'? Is your uber driver actually going to the same destination as the ride other than for the purpose of driving them there? If not, it's not a 'share'. Stop drinking the cool aid!
How is that not on-call?
It is not "on call", because answering the call is completely optional. If a fireman or ambulance driver is "on call", he can lose his job if he doesn't respond. For an Uber driver, there is no repercussion, other than that fare going to someone else.
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