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Germany Is Burning Too Much Coal (bloomberg.com)

Several readers share a report: Germany is widely seen as a world leader in the fight against climate change. Thanks to its investments in renewable power, wind and solar energy provide a third of its electricity, more than double the U.S. share. Germany's goal to lower carbon-dioxide emissions 40 percent by 2020 is significantly more ambitious than that of Europe as a whole or the U.S. After the U.S. withdrawal from the Paris climate accord, Chancellor Angela Merkel vowed even greater determination. "We can't wait for the last man on Earth to be convinced by the scientific evidence for climate change," she explained. But there's another, troubling side to the German story: The country still gets 40 percent of its energy from coal, a bigger share than most other European countries. And much of it is lignite, the dirtiest kind of coal. As a result, Germany is set to fall well short of its 2020 goal. This dependence on coal is partly a side effect of Germany's abandonment of emissions-free nuclear power and partly foot-dragging on the part of a government wary of alienating voters in German coal country. During the summer election campaign, Merkel largely avoided the subject.

20 of 451 comments (clear)

  1. fucking krauts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The emergency move away from nuclear has been incredibly short sighted. I understand not wanting to build new reactors, but shutting down running reactors, with all the capital investment involved, just doesn't make any sense. Especially when there is little risk of natural disasters in Germany.

    If people are serious about maintaining the same quality of lifestyle that we have today without burning as much coal, the current solution is Nuclear Energy. Yes it does pose many risks but so does burning coal, and the latter seems to be destroying our environment.

    1. Re: fucking krauts by atomicalgebra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nuclear energy isn't unlimited

      Neither is solar, but we can run our civilization for 10000's of years with nuclear. That makes is sustainable. If we include seawater extraction and thorium we can run our civilization for millions of years.

    2. Re: fucking krauts by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nuclear is not an option only after you've converted all matter available to you into iron. We'll want viable fusion reactors built before we run out o fissile materials that are easily mined on the surface. Something that will happen, but not likely in our lifetimes. And thankfully we've been working very hard on fusion reactor technology and we will continue to do so.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    3. Re: fucking krauts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thanks asshole, you the greens and the sierra club have inadvertently killed us all by turning the public against nuclear power and forcing governments to rely on coal

    4. Re:fucking krauts by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The emergency move away from nuclear has been incredibly short sighted. I understand not wanting to build new reactors, but shutting down running reactors, with all the capital investment involved, just doesn't make any sense. Especially when there is little risk of natural disasters in Germany.

      If people are serious about maintaining the same quality of lifestyle that we have today without burning as much coal, the current solution is Nuclear Energy. Yes it does pose many risks but so does burning coal, and the latter seems to be destroying our environment.

      Nuclear energy is great up until the point the time comes to dismantle an aging nuclear plant and all the nuclear waste that goes along with it. Then the power companies duck away by buying themselves out of the equation and letting taxpayer money take over.

      Nuclear power is a really nice deal. Reap all the profits and let the taxpayer take care of the dirty work.

      And if the unthinkable happens and one of the things blows up in your face due to incalculable risks, as has happened before at least two times, well, the taxpayer will also have to step in because like Fukushima taught us, the costs of a nuclear meltdown are so immense, it will bankrupt any company.

      Whatever way you look at it, nuclear is a shady deal with corporations reaping profits while carrying none of the risks.

  2. Sounds like a Base Load Need by DatbeDank · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That 40% sounds like a required need for base load. I doubt they will be able to eliminate it without much wailing and gnashing of teeth from their utility engineers.

    They could have accomplished their goals by keeping those nuclear plants going. Shame they let feelings get in the way of good energy policy.

    1. Re:Sounds like a Base Load Need by harperska · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That link doesn't 'disprove' the concept of peaking/base load grids. That concept is still sound and was in fact how the US grid operated at least as of 2010 when I was last personally involved in the energy industry. It just makes physics sense that it is more efficient to run your big plants at a constant rate 24/7, and bring your smaller plants on and off line as demand fluctuates throughout the day.

      What it sounds like your link is arguing is that Germany was playing games by generating more base load than they needed and then exporting the remainder, not that they didn't need base load at all. .

  3. But they signed a meaningless piece of paper! by CajunArson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But but but.. they SAID all the right things and virtue signaled in the prescribed manner!

    It's great they completely dumped nuclear power though, because OMG RADEYAYSHUNS!!

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    1. Re:But they signed a meaningless piece of paper! by grasshoppa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not sure why you're being modded down, because you nailed it.

      For all their lofty goals, paranoia and empty gestures are all Germany has thus far achieved.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    2. Re:But they signed a meaningless piece of paper! by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sigh. "Virtue signaling" is something that has real meaning. It doesn't just means "does something that I don't like or don't sympathize with". Your sarcasm is essentially correct regarding nuclear power, and their turning off their nuke plants was a terrible idea, but that doesn't mean the people here weren't sincere.

    3. Re:But they signed a meaningless piece of paper! by s122604 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the US, despite having a major political party completely infected with the AGW denial lunacy has been doing well re: carbon
      That's mostly due to having more methane than we know what to do with, but still...

      The absolute best thing that could happen to the planet re: climate change (other than mass suicide I guess) would be massive, trillion dollar nuclear power plant construction campaigns carried out in europe, north america, and Asia.
      Even if we had another chernobyl ever decade (and there is no reason why we should), but even if, it would still be a net benefit...

  4. Meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The only country not part of the Paris accord is set to meet their goal. Odd.

  5. Energiewende is a failure by atomicalgebra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Germany has spent 100s of billions on renewables without much to show for it. Their electricity rates are among the highest in Europe, yet they still pollute 10x as much as France" If they spent that money on next generation nuclear their emissions would have dropped. As it currently stands nuclear power is the only viable option to mitigate climate change.

    1. Re:Energiewende is a failure by atomicalgebra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      High electric rates are a greeny GOAL.

      You are right. Increasing electricity rates in a goal of the greenies. There is a belief that high electricity rates will decrease demand. In reality it impoverishes the lower and middle classes while doing nothing to lower CO2 emissions.

    2. Re:Energiewende is a failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, they're very smart, they're just not shills for the fossil fuel industry as you seem to be. "greeny's" aren't after high electric rates, they just want the electric rate to accurately reflect the costs of production. If fossil fuels weren't allowed to externalize a lot of their costs on everyone else, their electricity would've been far more expensive than renewables a long time ago. If we stopped all the production subsidies to oil/gas/coal, made them pay for the costs of climate change they're causing, and made them pay for their own security (get your own aircraft carrier groups to guard the middle east), there would be no way they could compete on price. It only looks cheap because they've hidden most of the costs.

    3. Re:Energiewende is a failure by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The energy bill is the smallest part of a household bill. My beer consumption two weeks at home is already more than my power bill. If I go three days in a pub, I likely pay more than for one month for power.

      The price of energy for an house hold is close to irrelevant.

      And: the poor would get social aid if they indeed could not pay the bill.

      Your ideas how "expensive the power in Germany" is completely misleading, as we don't need much electricity.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  6. They're not burning too much coal by geschbacher79 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Correction to your headline: They're not burning too much coal, which makes it sound like they're wasting coal by burning too much. In fact, this is just the opposite. The amount of coal they're burning is the amount necessary to provide 40% of the electricity to their country. A more accurate headline would be "Despite their reputation as a leader in renewable energy, Germany is actually burning more coal than most other European countries".

    Germany is running out of reliable sources of power generation: If not coal or nuclear, then natural gas would be a good choice. But do they have the political capital to switch from one fossil fuel to another?

  7. Re:Leadership needed by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Leadership requires honesty. The brutal sort that doesn't give you the warm-and-fuzzies when it tells you that no, we won't be driving electric cars on the moon by decade's end but will in fact be drilling oil and mining coal and driving gas-guzzlers for decades to come because whatever man-made global warming there might actually be is the price of having the lights go on when you flip the switch and being able to exercise your right to freedom of movement.

    No amount of feel-good nonsense, no amount of promises from Silicon Valley snakeoil salesmen and Wall Street middlemen looking to make a quick buck off your guilt, and no amount of knowitall career academics and government bureaucrats who can afford to drive Teslas and install hundred-thousand-dollar solar farms on top of their million-dollar houses will change the fact that people not only have a right to movement and shelter and prosperity through economic freedom, but are generally smart enough to notice when you shut off their lights and their heat at jack up their fuel prices in the middle of a brutal winter because "global warming."

    Honest leadership recognizes these facts, which are grounded both in hard, immutable, physics and hard, immutable, western morality, and doesn't try to lie around them. Obama did not have that honesty, Hillary did not have it, and the entire Paris crowd and its cheerleaders, Frau Merkel chief among them, were all a party to the big lie. Trump does have that honesty and called bullshit on the bullshit. How about that for a shocker. The serial liar and the most naked of emperors we've put in the White House in a long time is the more honest one.

  8. Only 25 years by XXongo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "According to the NEA, identified uranium resources total 5.5 million metric tons, and an additional 10.5 million metric tons remain undiscovered—a roughly 230-year supply at today's consumption rate in total.

    Yow-- that little??? Nuclear power plants provide about 11 percent of the world's electricity production now, so multiply that 230 years by 0.11, and it says we have a twenty-five year supply of uranium fuel if all of the world's electricity were nuclear.

    I retract whatever I may have said earlier-- according to this, nuclear (at least, uranium-based fission nuclear reactors) is not a viable long-term solution.

    1. Re:Only 25 years by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      25-year supply if nuclear provided all electricity on Earth -- If we continue the once-through throw most of the fuel away non-cycle. Simply adding fuel reprocessing multiplies that number by a few times. Going to breeder reactors multiplies that by several more times.

      Then there's the seawater extraction mentioned elsewhere.

      Beyond that, there's thorium. According to my CRC Handbook, thorium is "about as common as lead", and "there is probably more available energy in the earth's crust from thorium than from uranium and all fossil fuels combined."