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A Hacker 'Hero' Has Been Banned From Cyber Conferences After Decades Of Inappropriate Behavior (buzzfeed.com)
Several readers share a report: John Draper, a prankster hero to an early generation of hackers, used his status at cybersecurity conferences to arrange private meetings with teenage fans and a reporter where he touched them inappropriately, multiple men have told BuzzFeed News. The allegations are the latest in what has become in recent weeks an explosion of sexual misconduct reports that have roiled a seemingly endless list of industries, from Hollywood to the news media to the Alabama Senate race. As in many of those other cases, Draper's actions were well known to at least a core of people who had regular contact with him. Apple cofounder Steve Wozniak told BuzzFeed News that Steve Jobs once told him that Draper, an early associate, once asked Jobs to sit on Draper's back in the 1970s, an offer Wozniak said Jobs declined as being "out of the ordinary." But in the hacking world, where unusual behavior is accepted and often celebrated, there were few official steps taken to prevent Draper's overtures to unsuspecting fans. Volunteers who worked the annual DEF CON hacking conventions in Las Vegas recalled that one of their responsibilities was to separate Draper from his teenage followers. Draper's behavior drew attention at other conventions as well, where he was a frequent presence. Brandon Creighton, a long-standing volunteer at hacker conferences who was familiar with rumors about Draper, recalled escorting him from a private party after ToorCon in San Diego in 2007, though exactly why was not clear.
Some people still don't get it...
The problem is - when the person "asking" is in a position of authority, the person being asked doesn't always "feel free to say 'no'". And often the person "asking" uses their position to imply there will be negative repercussions if the other person does say no, or (as appears to be the case with Roy Moore) to use their position to bully the other person into silence.
#DeleteChrome
Flirting, making passes, and asking permission - when the askee is free to say 'no' - isn't criminal. Even if it's kinky.
The summary and TFA make it clear these actions were directed toward teenagers and that he would offer to take them somewhere private for "'energy' exercises or stretches."
It's not a witch hunt if event organizers for years have been trying to prevent unsuspecting people from falling into his traps.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
What position of authority was Draper in?
News at 11.
#DeleteFacebook
For a minimum of a decade or decade and a half. Draper extensively hit on a friend of mine, who at the time was 18 or 19.
Apparently, not all the teenagers were above 18. That's the part not being mentioned. He wasn't exclusively hitting on dudes under 18, but he just wasn't remotely cautious about the age of the folks he was hitting on. Usually people were NOT interested.
What kind of authority is he supposedly having? He's no teacher, he's no scout troop leader, he has no way of handing out any kind of repercussions whatsoever, what the hell are you talking about?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It worked for another hacker hero.
I think they didn't want some old homo aggressively cruising for teenage dates because it's bad PR even when it's not in and of itself illegal.
"These included him massaging men in public and urging them to come to his or their hotel room for private sessions. In multiple cases in which the men agreed"
It's safe to say most of the men who went along with it and agreed to meet him in his room did it with their eyes wide open, you can assume some level of intelligence and worldliness at a hacker conference. The ones who were terribly naive got a nasty surprise, since draper obviously didn't really grok consent well (though he did understand the concept of stopping, as far as the story goes there was no rape).
I used to hang out in the #2600 IRC, Drapers panache for young boys was being discussed as far back as 1998 according to my recollection.
Jesus Christ you dumb fuck, are you so embittered about your tiny penis and lack of social skills that everything has to be about feminists?
This is a man in his 70s, who made a routine habit of making inappropriate advances to underage teenage boys and the like.
This has nothing to do with feminism, and it has everything to do with an old man who was using his waning piece of celebrity to make inappropriate advances and generally be a creepy old man.
But go ahead, demonstrate how much of a butt-hurt dejected bitter loser you are by making this about feminists. Maybe because you're sad that the creepy old guy never stuck his fingers in your ass? Or maybe you're feeling guilty because he did?
You fucking people who go on an on whining about feminists and SJWs ... you're assholes, plain and simple. And what you're defending is the right to be an asshole. In real life, if you go around talking like that someone is going to break your jaw for you.
Your right to be an asshole isn't something to celebrate.
So, in other words, a person should not be able to try to hook up or date anyone below their "strata"?
That sound suspiciously like the caste system and we see how well that works out in place like India, eh?
Look...real aggression is one thing, rape is rape, etc....but geez, the definition of this is going down to ridiculously low levels.
As a guy, we all (mostly) know that hooking up with a lady is a numbers game. You flirt with and make passes, whatever you want to call it, with as many attractive women as you can, and out of that, you'll get hits.
You get rejections too....but hell, is it now that any girl you hit on and get rejected, means this was an "unwanted sexual assault" on her???
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Some people still don't get it...
lots of people want to please folks in power or folks who are wealthy because they want access to that power and wealth. Sometimes its about sex sometimes its about something else, really irrelevant. What it comes down to is are you willing to sell yourself out or not when an offer is placed on the table. Such is the nature of people and power YOU can't change that with any amount of legislation, awareness, moralizing, etc.
There are lines and we need to be careful about where we draw them. Consent is a matter of degree, there are huge gaps between. "Seems interesting", "I want this person to like me for whatever reasons so I am going to go along with this even though I am uninterested", "I don't want to but it might have negative consequences for me if I don't roll with it", "I don't feel like I have a choice", "I don't actually have a choice", and "oh God oh God deliver me from this".
Personally I think the issue needs to focus on the last two. The rest of those people need to learn to spine up or accept living as sheep.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Hey dumbshit. Sexual assault, sexual abuse, rape, and sexual misconduct in the workplace are not partisan issues. Get that? Your straw man about banning males from positions of authority is retarded. You clearly do not understand the dynamics that play themselves out in abuse situations. You are the classic asshole that blames the victim -- "can't place all of the blame on the perpetrator"?? Seriously, what the fuck dude? Rapists rape. Abusers abuse. Do you think people choose to be victims of rape and abuse? Do you think they choose to place themselves in a "victim mindset"? When your daughter is assaulted, will you blame her? Seriously think about that. She was askin' for it, right?
You sir, are a fucking asshole, and obviously part of the problem. You can politicize anything. You can make robbing an old woman a political talking point -- the old bag shouldn't have been there in the first place, right? She should have been home baking cookies, right?
This type of constant and complete divisiveness will be the downfall of the US.
"...these people." Go fuck yourself.
Beware of the Leopard.
If you're at a hacker convention that is not the appropriate time to hit on a women (or a man). That's why the good Lord made singles bars. You're professional environment is not a dating site. How hard is that to understand?
There is literally no right or wrong time to meet a significant other. In fact, a convention where people of similar interest gather, is probably a time when you'll meet people, exchange with them, and form bonds. Some of the those bonds could lead to friendships and more. Dating and meeting people is not an activity in and of itself. It happens organically during social activities of all sorts, of which your job, schooling, shopping are all a part of. To try and paint any non-professional bonds that happen in professional settings as wrong is simply to ignore human nature.
That being said, harassment and assault should not be tolerated. But you're saying that flirting, or simply having a nice chat with someone you feel you're connecting with should be banned, which is downright ludicrous.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
I've personally seen what Draper did. This was 20 years ago at XMas Con. Draper was a friend of a friend, and staying in our room. The guy frankly creeped me out and I wasn't very happy with it, but it was only one night, so whatever.
Later that night I went back to the room for something, and found Draper lying on the back of a local hacker I knew. The hacker later described the weird "energy exercise" thing described in the article. The hacker was also tripping on Robitussin at the time, and not in his right mind. He thanked me later for waking him up to what was happening, and was convinced Draper was going to rape him.
Now, I didn't see any rape happen. And nobody in the article exactly described rape. But I sure wouldn't call this particular series of incidents part of a witch hunt either. What Draper did is seriously seriously creepy. I don't know if it is/was illegal, but what he did wasn't right and shouldn't be tolerated.
It's important to keep in mind, though, that the lines for behavior that will get you arrested and behavior that will get you sued, fired, shunned, and/or asked to leave and not come back aren't and shouldn't be the same.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
that the whistle is being blown on man who became famous by blowing a whistle.
They're trying top broaden the definition of power. Same with some of the Louis CK. Because people "look up" to you or even if you're popular/famous/powerful in your field doesn't mean people don't have the choice to say no, or report your behavior. It's a way to absolve people of their responsibilities. And yes, sometimes victims do have responsibilities. If you enable your perpetrator to continue to hurt other people by keeping quiet, especially for money, you are wrong and don't get the "but, but, but... victim blaming!!! Muh victims!!!" card. This halo of sainthood and complete lack of responsibility we seem to be bestowing upon the Sacred Victim is getting way out of hand.
The issue with Draper is there are documented cases of his Yoga exercises with boys under the age of consent, 15 years old. This has been well known for many years and even though some of us tried to get the word out, too much hero worship surrounds the guy.
The problem is that when you idolize someone as much as we did (Draper was a member of my group back in the day.) when they ask something weird, you aren't as likely as a kid to say no to your hero. We quickly learned what he was really like...
The guy is just a dirty bum with serious mental issues who has a thing for young guys and doesn't keep the bar above age of consent.
Nonsense nobody should assume they can penetrate me just because we took our clothes off and touched all over each other. Why can't you just act like a normal human being and get explicit consent for each new touch and sexual act. "Hi can i touch your boobs". "ok one finger" "ok two fingers"
I mean doesn't everyone have sex like this?
He had a great deal of influence in the community, due to his living legend status.
The same as other celebrities who do this kind of thing. They use their fame and the offer of access to the circles they move on, as well as the perception that their fame makes them untouchable.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Are you really trying to suggest that Lewis CK, a successful guy in an industry where who you know is everything, had no power over women at the start of their careers trying to break in?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
So, in other words, a person should not be able to try to hook up or date anyone below their "strata"?
No, but when they have influence over the prospects of the person want to hook up with they need to be extremely careful to say the least. Imagine if your boss started flirting with you, would you really not expect there to be any negative repercussions to turning them down?
There are other issues here. It's a security conference, an odd one perhaps but still, it's not exactly a venue people go to in order to hook up. And it seems that some of the people he propositioned may have been under 18. What is the age of consent in that state?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I started going to cons in the early 1990's and John Draper "Captain Crunch" was always notorious for trying to invite newbie hackers to his hotel room for "meditation" sessions which included massaging and touching and whatever else happened if you allowed it go any further. The guy was always known to be a pervert. Everyone joked about it. He would literally go person-to-person through the crowd and invite whoever he could upstairs for a little one-on-one if you know what i'm sayin. Every con he would show up and do this. The best was at summercon 98 he showed up and did a talk about how everyone owes him thousands of dollars because he is so old school and how he invented the hacker scene. The guy was a fixture at every con. pumpcon, defcon, summercon.
It's such a ridiculous, outlandish claim, I just wanted to check.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
"Feminism infantilize women."
A movement to give women power over their own lives, such as the ability to decide who they want to screw, is "infantilizing". Slashdot: come for the tech stories, stay for the brain-dead comments. Thanks for coming through.
What the whoring commenters are not factoring in is Weinstein's willingness to destroy the careers of those who wouldn't sleep with him, or especially those who talked about it. It's not just about sleeping with him for the career boost.
Play Command HQ online
The "whistle" was not created by "Captain Crunch" the hacker, it was a toy prize included in boxes of Captain Crunch the cereal, from which the hacker took his nym.
The tone was used to disconnect an existing long distance call. Your local end of the trunk knew it was still in use because your local loop was still active. The remote end thought the trunk had gone idle and disconnected the call from that point onward.
When the tone was stopped, the distant end believed it was being asked to initiate a new call and started listening for the DTMF in-band signalling that would route the new call. This was not the same set of tones as a touch-tone phone produced, so a device called a "blue box" was used by the hacker to generate the correct tones.
There were codes used to route the call via specific paths, so one game was to see how many trunks could get involved before the call was completed. Or you could force specific undersea cables to be used.
This was all described in a paper published in the Bell System Journal, intending to inform other Bell technical employees of the internals of the system. Hackers discovered this information and designed a simple tone generator system (the "blue box") to take advantage of it. Bell attempted to scour all the libraries where this journal was shelved to remove that article, and it is hard to find a bound copy from that time period that still has the article in it.
Because it was the local end of the call that maintained the record of called number and time spent on the call, it was usually a toll-free number that the hacker used. The only evidence of the hack would be extremely long calls to toll-free numbers.
If you practiced, you could actually whistle the disconnect tone yourself. It was somewhat fun to walk past someone who was on a long distance call and then whistle 2600 Hz for a few seconds or even less. If they were engrossed in the conversation they wouldn't notice the whistle, but the phone system did. Their next words were usually "hello? Hello? Are you there?"
That is ancient history to most folks these days.
Perhaps that is your experience, but I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that it is probably more common that they are abducted from their parents, or run away at a young age and are subsequently exploited.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
First of all this isn't about "inappropriate places", it is about a gathering of like minded people. ... who are on the whole there to talk about tech stuff. Yeah you might meet your SO there, but it's not the place to just go hitting on people. Sure if you actually have a strong connection, xchange contact details and that sort of thing, or if its someone you already know well, then yes go for it but tread carefully.
If you're treating it like a singles bar and just hitting on people then no it isn't the time or the place.
WTF is the ludicrous equivalence being drawn between "you might meet a partner there" and "anything goes".
You are thinking of funerals. Second of all I have no doubt you don't realize this but women are actually attracted to men too.
OK, so you're talking the line "you don't agree with me therefore you must be stupid". Well, nice to see.
Yes women are attracted to men. No that does NOT mean they want to be hit on all the time at a tech venue. Sometimes, in fact most of the time, they like the men want to talk about tech with any other random conference goer.
It isn't the one way street you experience daily for many of us.
Except it kind of is. Imagine you're at a conference with a strong gender imbalance where gender A is common and gender B is less common. Now lets say both are equally likely to spot someone they want to hit on and both equally likely to hit on someone in those circumstances.
Which group, A, or B do you think will get hit on most?
Now hypotheticals aside, I've been to many tech conferences and witnessed more than enough shitty behaviour which could fall under the general guise of being hit on. In practice it happens to women far more than men though I have witnessed it in both directions.
Interesting thing thoguh, at the last conference I was hanging round a mixed but female dominated group. A few drinks were had and I guess the women in the group felt reasonably comfortable because then all the stories of incredibly skeezy hitting on behaviour (and other) came out. ALL the stories.
Hold fucking shit. I had no idea.
So yeah you might meet your SO, or you might be yet another guy hitting on her in a very long line already and she would rather talk about cool tech and cool hacking.
SJW n. One who posts facts.