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Tesla Proves To Be Too Pricey For Germany, Loses Tax Subsidies (reuters.com)
Tesla has been removed from Germany's list of electric cars eligible for subsidies because its Model S sedan is too expensive for the scheme. Tesla customers cannot order the Model S base version without extra features that pushed the car above the 60,000 euro ($71,500) price limit, a spokesman for the German Federal Office for Economic Affairs and Export Controls (BAFA) said on Friday. From the report: Germany last year launched the incentive scheme worth about 1 billion euros, partly financed by the German car industry, to boost electric car usage. A price cap was included to exempt premium models. "This is a completely false accusation. Anyone in Germany can order a Tesla Model S base version without the comfort package, and we have delivered such cars to customers," Tesla said in a statement. The carmaker said the upper price limit was initially set by the German government to exclude Tesla, but later a compromise was reached "that allows Tesla to sell a low option vehicle that qualifies for the incentive and customers can subsequently upgrade if they wish." It said, however, it would investigate whether any car buyers were denied the no-frills version. Under the subsidy scheme, buyers get 4,000 euros off their all-electric vehicle purchase and 3,000 euros off plug-in hybrids.
Several companies make more electric cars than Tesla does. Nissan is one you've heard of, probably. The Nissan Leaf is the most popular. They also make some all-electric vehicles for business use.
Several companies in China make electric cars. In fact China makes more electric cars than the rest of the world combined. BYD is one Chinese company.
> I have only ever heard of Telsa manufacturing them.
Nissan and BYD executives don't announce they're building a tunnel, without permits, for a scientifically questionable vacuum subway from their parking lot to some other city. They just make good cars. Elon Musk is the PT Barnum of our age.
Note I am in no way against the wealthy. I wish them every success.
But they don't need government assistance to buy a luxury vehicle.
Tesla's subsidy runs out next year.
They pre-sell all their cars. They won't go bankrupt at all. LOL
If demand goes down 15%, they're still selling exactly the same number of cars. And making the exact same amount of money per car.
It is a premium car with nameplate value, but they haven't tried to explore the upper end of the tolerable price. Instead they're building up their manufacturing so they can output more, and keeping surplus demand. Everybody already knows they have surplus demand. It is a brilliant and well-funded growth strategy.
Because the Germans are using a Volkswagen calculator.
It's doubtful that the law would be valid if it outright said "except Tesla" in its language. So they tried to infer it by putting a price cap just under what a Tesla S costs. Then Tesla started offering a trim package that meets the law's price criteria.
What exactly is the problem again? Oh, what it said in the summary: this program is partially paid for by the German auto makers, and the German auto industry doesn't want to have that money going to Tesla. So let's fuck around with sock puppets in the government rather than build a competitive offering. Because clearly someone that was going to buy a Tesla is going to change their mind over this subsidy and get an electric VW Golf instead?
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW... there's a reason Tesla lost its subsidies and even other car manufacturers have a hard time in the EU. Germany runs the EU and they are very protectionist.
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The result of german newspaper investigation was:
Tesla does not produce the base version - although it was offered.
Some buyers got the premium version for the price of the base version.
In a testbuy scenario, Tesla sell staff told its not possible to buy base version, base version does not exist - IT is just to Trick german law. So the customer had to buy the premium version.
Sounds like trouble for tesla.
German newspaper:
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/kaufpraemie-fuer-elektroautos-infos-und-antragsformular-8535657.html
Just out of curiosity, who else makes viable electric vehicles?
Audi, BMW, BYD Chevy, Citroen, Fiat, Ford, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Peugeot, Renault, Smart, and Volkswagen. And I was being kind only listing the companies producing cars that I have actually seen driving around in the streets, and skipping over the producers I haven't seen in the wild. In the USA Nissan probably makes that list but I've yet to see a Leaf, strange given that it's the 3rd best selling electric car in Germany.
The vast majority of them are budget cars too. Several of my colleagues own Renault Zoes, VW e-Golfs, Opel (GM) Amperas, and we often joke about the one who owns the Fiat 500e. Fiat 500s have a long reputation of breaking down, but there's so little to go wrong in an electric drive train but we always say I'm sure the 500e will be the car to make that happen :-)
Where does Tesla sit in Germany? Year to date in 14th place. The Audi A3 has sold 5 times as many as the Tesla S this year, followed very closely by a Renault Zoe (which I nearly bought myself, but there was a 6 month waiting list on getting charging infrastructure installed in my street and I needed a car right now so I bought a Clio). BMW and VW's electric vehicles are far more popular in Germany than Tesla, and curiously so is the Kia Soul.
People who buy a Model S are not looking to save money. The car is about a 100K if you take a reasonable package. When you can dump 100K on a car, you're not counting how many cents you save per kilometer.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Price also matters. In my country you get between 2.5 - 3 Ioniq:s (not Ionic) for the price of one Tesla.
You have never met a German, have you?
Real life is overrated.
To those who claim that the 60000 Euro price limit for the cars was created specifically against Tesla - nope, it was against luxury cars in general, since everybody who can afford a 60000+ Euro car does not really need a 4000 Euro tax break. Also, the subsidies were not only for pure EV, they were also for hybrid models. So the price limit also excludes models from Porsche (Panamera hybrid), Mercedes (S class hybrid), BMW (7 series eDrive) and other big manufacturers.
Tesla cheated, pure and simple. The rules for the subsidies state "the base model of the car must cost below 60000 Euro", so Tesla created an imaginary Model S without any options which would be normal for any car in that price range (parking sensors etc.) which made it squeak in at just below 60000 Euro. That way, they could point at the price list and say "look, base model is below 60000, so all Model S deserve the tax credit!", safe in the knowledge that no customer would actually order that barebone model. Well, the test buyers for the tax credit actually did, and Tesla told them that you cannot actually order it, because Tesla does not produce any vehicles without parking sensors etc. Tesla salesmen even told the test buyers that this model was only on the price list to allow Tesla customers to get the tax credit (by existing on paper). Tesla clearly committed fraud here, and now the customers might have to pay back the tax credit they received.
Percentages do not tell the whole tale of lobbying to set the price cap that excludes their competitor.
for example, on the Leaf you have to rent the battery - it isn't included in the car price and you can not buy it for any money
As a (used) Leaf owner, I can confirm that I own the whole damn car - including the battery. It has traveled over 30,000 miles while dropping 1 bar out of 12 for range. The range is still over 80 miles per charge.
It has snow tires on it for Winter driving. The Leaf warms itself up on a timer before I leave for work. I never have to stop at a gas station, and get about 40 miles per day for $1 (roughly $38 in electricity per month).
By the time that I need to purchase a new battery ($5000 at the moment) I will have saved significantly more money in gasoline alone. Outside of tires and windshield washer, maintenance is not an issue.
This is not an advertisement. My other (gasoline) cars are a Mitsubishi, Toyota, and Porsche. The bottom line is that the Leaf is the cheapest car to operate and maintain.