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Inside Faraday Future's Financial House of Cards (theverge.com)

Sean O'Kane, reporting for The Verge: When Faraday Future emerged from stealth mode in 2015, it promised to transform the car industry with an American-made luxury electric vehicle that would someday be fully autonomous, maybe even sold through a subscription service. As we learned at CES 2017, the company was taking aim at Tesla with a car -- the FF91 -- that was designed to dazzle, with a 0-60 time of 2.4 seconds as jaw-dropping as the proposed $180,000 price tag. Since then, though, Faraday Future has been more focused on survival than speed. The Verge has learned from multiple sources about the nature of the company's financial plight. While Faraday Future posed as the newest California electric car startup that attracted top auto industry talent, 10 former employees and one person close to the company say the behavior and business practices of its chief investor have brought business to a halt. Also read: Everything wrong with Faraday Future's "Tesla killer"

44 comments

  1. To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer too by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >> the company was taking aim at Tesla with a car -- the FF91 -- that was designed to dazzle

    To be fair, Tesla's having trouble attacking major auto manufacturers too.

  2. Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by King_TJ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    He pushed for a much bigger factory in Nevada, like Tesla — a company that Faraday Future’s executives viewed as a competitor, and one that it had poached talent from — and increased the production target to multiple models and 150,000 units per year. The finance team spent weeks recalculating for this change in scope, these people say, and eventually determined the necessary investment cost would be about $3 billion.

    "Once he saw that plan, he was like, ‘Well if four models and 150,000 is good, then we ought to be able to go to 5 million cars. What’s it going to take to go to 5 million cars?’” recalls one of these former employees. “That’s the kind of guy that he was, it was like, ‘Okay, but lets even think bigger. I need to be at 5 million cars by the end of 2025. In 10 years.’”

    The statement, above, speaks volumes about the problems this company is having. The owner has NO clue how to build a business from the ground up, and apparently thinks funding will just "happen" because his ideas are cool.

    1. Re: Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, that's basically three times the existing business plan. Not completely ridiculous. But over ten years, it might be difficult to produce such a plan in the auto industry.

    2. Re:Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by rjune · · Score: 1

      The plan sounds grand, but are there buyers for 5 million cars?

    3. Re:Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by torkus · · Score: 1

      Not at $180,000 per car at least.

      Are there buyers for 5 million ~$40k EVs? Absolutely...and that's what Tesla is aiming for now.

      FF seems to have missed the intermediary steps where you build a brand, a production line, a customer base...and grow them because that's how you fund more of the same.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    4. Re:Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While Faraday has no future, the house of cards I'm really looking forward to dying is Nikola Motors. At least Faraday isn't making promises based around numbers that are physically impossible, and even changing their plans for what sort of energy source their vehicles will use at regular intervals.

      --
      "This wallpaper is killing me. One of us has got to go." -- Oscar Wilde on his deathbed
    5. Re:Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by youngone · · Score: 1

      He sounds like a Chinese money launderer to me.
      Opaque sources of funds, keeping the financial people in the dark, complex corporate structures, etc.
      At some point FF will disappear, and so will YT and his friends. They probably have boltholes already someplace else.

    6. Re:Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its what i guessed over a year ago. im no expert, but apparently i know how to spot chinese fraudsters. gung hay fat choi, motherfuckers.

    7. Re: Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most fun will be when Tesla finally collapses, though.

    8. Re: Sounds like a dreamer, not a businessman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol,keep dreaming shorty

  3. Faraday Future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who???

  4. Faraday Future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the fuck are they and why is this important?

    1. Re:Faraday Future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck are Google or Wikipedia?

    2. Re:Faraday Future by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Crowd sourced information.... As accurate as the crowd usually is. Now let's get on with the mob hangin'

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  5. Telsa Killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know who this company is but if you're making a car for twice the price of a Model S I would certainly expect it to be better. That's like "duh".

    1. Re:Telsa Killer by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

      Well it does have more horsepower (1000+!) and a better range. The interior seems eccentric but nice. It's slightly more expensive than the top version of the S. The company seems financially fucked but the car could very well be awesome.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:Telsa Killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Well it does have more horsepower (1000+!) and a better range.

      Only in Powerpoint.

  6. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 4, Informative

    As far as I know, the goal of Elon Musk was to push other manufacturers into making electric cars.

    I'd say he succeeded, at least partially.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  7. Bioshock flashbacks... by JoeLinux · · Score: 1

    Anyone else read this first as "Fontaine Futuristics"?

  8. What's do they call this car? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Faraday's cage?

  9. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is more like Enron trying to make money off of the Level(3) business plan, but only buying Level(3) bandwidth and reselling to customers at a lower rate to 'pretend' they are a competitor while benefiting from the hype around the actual network at Level(3).

    Unfortunately, like when Enron hit the skids, the stock shorts will use fear mongering to try and take down the company with actual value to it

  10. What the heck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    READ MORE(links to youtube).

  11. Wrong path by Frederic54 · · Score: 2

    We don't want car that do 0-60 in 2 seconds, we want a normal sedan with 500 miles autonomy

    --
    "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
    1. Re:Wrong path by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not even the most wanted time-related feature. 0-60 time is much lower in importance to me than 60-0 time and the 60-0 time of the car behind me. The guy in front of you is going to take his sweet time accelerating anyway (and if he doesn't, 60-0 will be kicking in again soon...), so the practical benefit is essentially 0. But car people obsess over this crap, so here we are.

    2. Re:Wrong path by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >We don't want car that do 0-60 in 2 seconds, we want a normal sedan with 500 miles autonomy

      Well, I DO want my car to accelerate rapidly enough that the guy behind me at a freshly green light isn't honking for me to get out of his way. I really don't see how an electric vehicle is going fail to meet my standard given how good electric motors are at accelerating from zero.

      The range thing... definitely. I can easily go 400km in my gas-guzzler with safety margin in case I end up sitting in bad traffic. While I usually use only a small fraction of that range, it's not terribly uncommon for me to make round trips of that length. An electric has to match that or at least be as convenient to charge up as it is to refuel my current car before I can replace what I have.

      In short, yes, I generally agree with you, but I think asking for a 500 mile range is a bit extreme, half that would be competitive. Then again, you also need competitive pricing. My current car cost about 1/6th of the sticker price on an unsubsidized electric, and there's no way I'd save that much in gas over the life of my car, so... yeah, price is important too.

    3. Re:Wrong path by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is "we"? How often do you drive 500 miles? Personally, I last drove 500 miles about 4 years ago. It's not worth more than $20 to me for my car to be able to drive 500 miles without a re-fuel - especially when the car gets 378.

      99.9999% of car rides are less than 100 miles. I'm making that statistic up, but you know it's true.

    4. Re:Wrong path by torkus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The 0-60 time is a byproduct of EV design as much as it is an inherent feature of high power, high efficiency electric motors.

      EVs get significant boots to efficiency by being able to reclaim energy while stopping. Car brakes are typically significantly more powerful than the engine...so if you want to rely on electric braking to the equivalence of physical brakes, you need a generator (motor) capable of that level of power. The cost is moderate to small while the benefit (range) is a fundamental, key selling point of your vehicle so of course you do it.

      The incredible 0-60 times are a *byproduct*, but make a much more flashy and easy to understand selling point than '500kW peak engine braking power to maximize battery range'

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    5. Re: Wrong path by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends entirely on how long charging takes and how many chargers you encounter along the way. 500 miles is 800km. That's still less than what most diesel and many petrol cars manage today and they can be filled up in less than five minutes. 500km would be fine, but only if charging doesn't take more than fifteen minutes or so and can be done along the motorway without detours. Otherwise holiday trips by car become very difficult.

  12. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by larryjoe · · Score: 1

    As far as I know, the goal of Elon Musk was to push other manufacturers into making electric cars.

    I'd say he succeeded, at least partially.

    Google Fiber was trying mainly to spur competition using minimal funds and didn't care about market share or even long-term viability. In contrast, Tesla's survival depends on beating competitors. I doubt merely spurring competition was a real goal.

  13. Best thing about this car would be... by rnturn · · Score: 1

    ...the ``culling the herd'' feature of 0-60 in 2.4 seconds.

    Is there any doubt about the number of rich pukes who fancy themselves as Formula 1 drivers will drive into bridge supports the first time they punch the accelerator on the thing.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    1. Re:Best thing about this car would be... by stooo · · Score: 2

      >> rich pukes .... will drive into bridge supports

      No problemo
      Bridge supports are build well enough for this.

      --
      aaaaaaa
    2. Re:Best thing about this car would be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear musk has invested in bridge support tech. so he means to cash in on this. well played, comrade musk.

  14. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As far as I know, the goal of Elon Musk was to push other manufacturers into making electric cars.

    I'd say he succeeded, at least partially.

    The goal of Tesla is to prove to the world that electric cars do not have to suck. As in, you can only go to the store and you'll run out of battery. Or if you hit the accelerator pedal, the light would turn red before you got moving.

    Tesla proved that, and more - they proved that electric cars are sporty and pretty much the future for performance cars because of the immense low-end torque available.

    What Tesla did was prove electric vehicles are practical vehicles that families could use as their main daily driver and with the supercharger network, you could do some nice road trips, too.

  15. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by torkus · · Score: 1

    Google fiber was a bust. They quickly realized there's no such thing as net neutrality when it comes to local utilities and obviously weren't interested in spending the many billions of dollars to try and take over.

    --
    You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  16. also read? by jlv · · Score: 1

    the "Also Read" link goes to a video. Nothing to read there.

  17. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by HumanWiki · · Score: 1

    Not once have I looked a single vehicle in the Tesla portfolio, save the defunct Roadster 1.0 and thought "sporty".. They're bland, uninspired and the interior is drab at best. I don't refute their straight line numbers, but that's all that's sporty about them.

  18. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    As far as I know, the goal of Elon Musk was to push other manufacturers into making electric cars.

    Ready, fire, aim!

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  19. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not once have I looked a single vehicle in the Tesla portfolio, save the defunct Roadster 1.0 and thought "sporty".. They're bland, uninspired and the interior is drab at best. I don't refute their straight line numbers, but that's all that's sporty about them.

    I liked the look of the early Model S but after the redesign it's such a bland-looking car now as are the other two models.

  20. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by Whorhay · · Score: 1

    If it's too bland pay for a custom paint job or something, perhaps with some hot lesbians on the hood.

    But more seriously what car has ever had universal aesthetic appeal? The Model S is pretty much what I imagined cars of the future would look like as a kid. The body design is mostly functional, anything past that is superfluous. I'm not interested in paying thousands of dollars for something just because it looks cool unless it is actually a work of art.

  21. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by HumanWiki · · Score: 1

    No amount of paint is going to fix the fact that it looks like a 90s era Dodge Intrepid with slight changes and noticeably missing radiator inlet. I get that looks are subjective, but it's hardly a futuristic design and the future cars I've seen in sci-fi were much nicer looking than what they've made.

  22. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's the PR statement. The actual aim is to make loads of money on the stock market.

  23. No CEO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I get the impression the company has no CEO or board of directors, it's being steered by the main investor, and CFO duties handed off to someone he found off the street who plays fast and loose with the cash and with the accounting. How would any outsider expect to get results for their investment from this fustercluck?

  24. Uh huh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When Faraday Future emerged from stealth mode in 2015,

    Who?

  25. Re:To be fair Tesla's having trouble as X killer t by Whorhay · · Score: 1

    I'm just not seeing the similarities to the Intrepid. I mean sure it looks more like the Intrepid than my Fathers 1950's Pontiac Chieftain, but that's not saying a lot.