Patreon Scraps New Service Fee, Apologizes To Users (theverge.com)

Patreon has decided to halt its plans to add a service fee to patrons' pledges, a proposed update that angered many users. "We're going to press pause," CEO Jack Conte tells The Verge. "Folks have been adamant about the problems with the new system, and so basically, we have to solve those problems first." The company plans to work with creators on a plan that will solve issues with the current payment system, but won't create major new problems in their stead. From the report: Conte published a blog post laying out the core problems, alongside an apology. "Many of you lost patrons, and you lost income. No apology will make up for that, but nevertheless, I'm sorry," it reads. "We recognize that we need to be better at involving you more deeply and earlier in these kinds of decisions and product changes. Additionally, we need to give you a more flexible product and platform to allow you to own the way you run your memberships. I know it will take a long time for us to earn back your trust. But we are utterly devoted to your success and to getting you sustainable, reliable income for being a creator."

Conte says that any new system will need to take the popularity of small pledges into account, and preserve the benefits of aggregation. It will also need to give artists more autonomy, rather than announcing a sweeping overall change directly to users. "The overwhelming sentiment was that we overstepped our bounds" with the non-negotiable fee, he says. "I agree, we messed that up. We put ourselves between the creator and their fans and we basically told them how to run their business, and that's not okay." Webcomic creator Jeph Jacques previously quoted Conte as saying Patreon "absolutely fucked up that rollout."

Comments

Re:I have altered our deal...

[DontBeAMoran]

Why not link to the actual joke?

Breach of Trust (A wound that doesn't heal.)

[sehlat]

They didn’t ASK. Instead, they simply said “All your wallets are belong to us.”

They forgot that trust, once broken, is damn near impossible to repair. I am reminded of an exchange in the British Parliament after Dunkirk, when an admiral was being upbraided for risking the fleet. The admiral replied, “We can rebuild the fleet in thirty years. We can rebuild the tradition in three hundred.”

I may check in on Patreon in 2317.

Re:Breach of Trust (A wound that doesn't heal.)

[tlhIngan]

They didnâ(TM)t ASK. Instead, they simply said âoeAll your wallets are belong to us.â

They forgot that trust, once broken, is damn near impossible to repair. I am reminded of an exchange in the British Parliament after Dunkirk, when an admiral was being upbraided for risking the fleet. The admiral replied, âoeWe can rebuild the fleet in thirty years. We can rebuild the tradition in three hundred.â

I may check in on Patreon in 2317.

Good for you. Now what are you going to do in the meantime?

Patreon could do these things as they're one of the top "tip jar" places on the web, and they manage things such that "creators" can offer donators special perks. All this managed on one convenient interface. Sure the creators could use Paypal, but then you lose out on the perk management.

So they did it, assuming everyone would see it this way.

They did explain later on what happened.

First off, they used to aggregate the payments - at the end of the month, they charged everyone. Great, except that lead to a problem of someone who say, donated on the 28th of the month, then paid again 3 days later. Not ideal. So then they decided they would do it on the anniversary, but then it resulted in increased fees for the creators because instead of being charged once, people were charged multiple times and incurring multiple fees.

So some creators complained again - they got $1200, but after fees, they got only $800. (Which happens because if you do $1 donations, the creator really only keeps around 65 cents of that if you billed individually. If you aggregate, the fees go down)

And yes, apparently fees are the #1 issue at Patreon - creators just complain constantly how much money is taken away. So Patreon decided to shift payment fees away from the creator and onto the donator in an effort to quell the complaints. End result was what happened last week when creators realized that the shift may mean more money for them per donator, but a lot of donators simply left.

Re:Breach of Trust (A wound that doesn't heal.)

[Sarten-X]

It seems to me that the best option would be to provide more options.

As a creator, let me pick who's covering the processing fees. If I'm aiming for wide appeal, it might be beneficial to pay my own fees, just to keep the apparent prices low. If I have a small appeal to some highly-contributing individuals, a few cents in processing fees won't change our relationship that much.

As a patron, let me pick when and how I'll be charged. Let me pick a schedule, and just show me the fees associated with it. If I'm picking something that causes costs to rise, I'm fine paying for it, but give me the option up front. I might be fine shifting my payment schedule a few days if it cuts down the fees, but let me make that choice. To compromise with the creator, a middle-ground option might be that the creator picks a plan for which he's willing to pay the minimized fees, and the cost of any deviations from that schedule would be paid by the patron choosing to be different.

As a business, Patreon can do a few other things to mitigate the apparently-high risks involved. Rather than passing chargebacks directly through to the creators, Patreon could hold a one-month buffer of donations, collecting the individual charges (and chargebacks), then releasing them to the creators 30-60 days after the charge deadline. Essentially, Patreon itself takes the role of a clearinghouse, maintaining account balances and payouts for each creator. Having floating balances would also open the door to allow creators to support other creators directly from their accounts (preferably with reduced fees), promoting collaboration under the Patreon banner.

Now, implementing these choices would be a significant development and logistics effort, but certainly possible.

They could have explained themselves here

[pots]

They're really not doing well with communication here. They make this announcement claiming that it's for the benefit of creators, and that it would improve the payment system... A bunch of people make a bunch of guesses about what they're actually trying to improve, confident that they know what Patreon's costs are and that Patreon is screwing them. Here is Patreon's chance to explain themselves, but their apology just says that there are "issues" that need to be solved.

If they would just be upfront about their costs and margins it could settle an awful lot of this... Provided they're being honest, and not actually out to screw everyone.

What about the SanFranBans?

[Anonymous Coward]

When is Patreon going to stop banning people for being "conservative", i.e. they were leftist a week ago but the party line changed...

The mainstream media is now calling Noam Chomsky an alt-right nazi. This bullshit needs to stop.

Clueless?

[swm]

From the new blog posting

Aggregation is highly-valued, and we underestimated that.

Aggregation is pretty much their core value proposition.
How could they "underestimate" this?

Re: but nevertheless

[Type44Q]

Did the world already ended?

Patience; we're working on grammar first.

TOO LATE, you are not un-replaceable

[furry_wookie]

Too Late Patreon. I like many others deleted ALL my pledges and was in fact encouraged to do so by those I supported.

I deleted all my pledges via your site, and instead I have donated directly to all those who I was sending funds via your service, just as I did before you existed.

You have been cut out of the process because your only value was convenience, and that is easily replaced with direct payments and just about 5 minutes more effort to contact each person I supported individually.

BTW, I am not going back to you no matter how much you "change", the deed is done.

Frankly, I don't know why PayPal does not lift a pinky and replace you. They already have monthly subscriptions supported in their service, all they need is to spend 15 minutes adding a page that allows you to setup monthly payments yourself instead of requiring it to be initiated from the provider. You guys are one webpage and about an interns afternoon of work from PayPal away from being replaced.