Ask Slashdot: Thoughts On Star Wars: The Last Jedi One Week Later? [Spoilers] (independent.co.uk)

AmiMoJo writes: After what feels like an eternity of waiting, Star Wars: The Last Jedi has finally reached cinemas, scoring a whopping $450 million opening weekend worldwide. While reviews have been unanimously positive for Rian Johnson's blockbuster, there's been huge backlash online, many fans expressing disappointment. There's no better place to see the great divide between critics and fans than on Rotten Tomatoes, where the critical consensus scores 93% while audiences score The Last Jedi 56%. The Last Jedi is apparently worse than Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith. Conversely, critics say The Last Jedi equals A New Hope and The Force Awakens, only falling behind The Empire Strikes Back.

One problem with Rotten Tomatoes' audience score, along with IMDB, is there's no vetting process. Instead, we should look to the movie's CinemaScore, an America-based exit poll system that scientifically works out an audience score. The Force Awakens earned an A score, with 90% of all respondents being positive, the average score being 4.5. According to Deadline, non-Disney sources are saying the backlash has been primarily online "trolling." The publication also points to one Facebook page titled "Down With Disney's Treatment of Franchises and Fanboys" who are claiming to use bot accounts to target the film's score. SPOILERS: With Star Wars: The Last Jedi being released one week ago, we ask you to share your thoughts of the film now that you've had some time to watch and digest it. How did you like Daisy Ridley's performance? Do you think Kylo will try and turn Rey again as Supreme Leader? How will General Leia's future be dealt with now that Carrie Fisher has passed away last year?

Comments

Was Okay

[Anonymous Coward]

It had corny pleb joke, a useless side plot, some entertaining space action, and cool CG.
I didn't like it enough to go out of my way to recommend it to just anyone, but I wouldn't take back watching it.

Hated it!

[evanak]

I grew up in the 70s/80s and loved the original 4-5-6. Prequels 1 and 3 were okay, 2 can be wiped off the face of the universe for all I care, but I liked 7 and Rogue One. Episode 8 ... crap!!! What ruined it for me was all the stupid jokes. Han Solo made a wisecrack now and then, and those were funny because they were rare and witty. But it felt like Episode 8 had an idiotic joke every 10 minutes. And it's one thing if a new/younger character makes a joke, but Luke???? What will episode 9 bring, fart jokes? Cut the jokes and re-release it as-is, the movie would be 20 minutes shorter and then I can actually evaluate the plot. Extremely disappointed.

Re:Hated it!

[Anonymous Coward]

The fans hate Disney's movie and they blame internet trolls. What a joke!

**spoilers**

The movie is getting a love it/hate it response, mostly based on the plot around Luke.

Luke in he original trilogy was a hero-turned-jedi that rose to the challenge, defeated his enemies, and faced certain death to save his father from the dark side of the force.

Luke in this movie is a coward and a quitter who contemplated murdering his own nephew in his sleep (because he was falling to the dark side).

For people who care about character motivation, this plot is a terrible insult to Luke. Luke simply deserved better.

Similar for Poe; formerly a loyal and masterfully skillful badass hero of the resistance, now a reckless loose cannon who commits mutiny and is ultimately responsible for the resistance being slaughtered.

If you like watching your heros turn out to be miserable failures as people, then it's a great movie. Well, provided you can overlook the other plot holes and characters acting in ways that contradict their character motivation, as well as the subtle undercurrent of man-shaming. But the special effects were great.

Re:Hated it!

[Xest]

Yes, this was by far the worst Star Wars to date.

What's perhaps most frustrating though is the apologists trying to excuse it's abysmal reviews - the summary highlights one example of that "Oh if we write off the raw data as trolling and instead vet aka fix the reviewers so that they're 90% positive then the reviews actually look positive!". No fucking shit. I'll stick to the real numbers though.

I read the BBC article about the controversy and for some god unknown reason they asked one of those female supremacist types from "Empire" whatever the fuck that is (I had to Google it) who theorised that people were just made uncomfortable by it because there weren't enough white males in it. Yes, that's right you dumb fuck, I'm uncomfortable because a film whose cast has historically been mostly filled with aliens and robots doesn't have enough white males in it.

Here's a better theory to all those, maybe the film really was just fucking shit? Maybe people found a fucking space ship flying through space for an hour entirely dull? Maybe the dialogues between Luke and Rey just weren't very interesting? Maybe the weird laugh Yoda did as he engaged in a god damn fucking book burning was just all too fucking weird and nonsensical? Maybe writing off a female ace like Tallie Lintra was an astounding waste of an opportunity to introduce a new interesting character to the starfighter side of things to rival Poe? Maybe the subtle jabs at the fanbase with lines from the likes of Kylo Ren as to how it's time to let go and make way for a generation were a little bit too obvious? Maybe Rose was one of the most boring new characters ever introduced into the Star Wars franchise? At least you could laugh at how bad Jar-Jar was, Rose was just a fucking dullard waste of space.

I'm not even easily disappointed, I'm one of those rare breeds that didn't actually mind Episodes 1 - 3, I loved the OT, and I thought Force Awakens and Rogue One was great. This was literally the first ever Star Wars film that I just didn't like, that I found just outright disappointing and a waste of time.

Hopefully Rian Johnson will never work on anymore Star Wars stuff, the fact is the film just didn't flow well, the casting and use of certain characters was abysmal, the story was full of random pointless bits and devoid of interesting useful bits that would've driven the story forward. It just wasn't a well directed film, and that's got nothing to do with problems with political correctness, or "online" trolling as the idiots are trying to deflect it as. It was just bad, Rian Johnson did an awful job, there's really no more to it than that.

FWIW I thought Rogue One was the best of the newest three films, closely followed by The Force Awakens, this new film just didn't come close to either and frankly I think the IMDB reviews are pretty much bang on and are exactly where I'd position this.

Rather than trying to pretend that the criticism of this film isn't real, Disney would do well to learn from the mistake, prevent Rian working on any future Star Wars work and work damn hard to make sure the next films live up to the same standard as Rogue One - they need to understand Star Wars is a beloved franchise and if they don't get it right people are going to call that out, and accept that the call outs when it's bad are legitimate and learn from them.

Re:Hated it!

[ravenshrike]

The thing is that this was by far the WORST Star Wars movie both when it comes to the addition to canon as well as storytelling devices. Previously, the Sith took decades to amass significant political power and to advance their plan. Now random Burny McScarface comes out of nowhere and kickstarts an empire with four separate superweapons all of which were designed by a five year old and still gets his ass kicked by acting like he didn't even know what had happened in the 50 years previous. Then there's the fact that all the new force powers are asspulled by the Resistance whenever they need to avoid dying. Along with an evil empire run by people who shouldn't be in charge of a Kwik-E-Mart and you have the WORST entry from a writing standpoint. Yes, worst. As in makes the prequels look like pure fucking genius.

Re:Hated it!

[Anonymous Coward]

Paul turned into a religious dictator against his will. He resisted that role fiercely but it is what people demanded of him, and furthermore his ability to see the future clearly showed him that any other path would lead to the destruction of the human race.

And it turned out to be too much for him to bear. He just couldn't become the tyrant that humanity needed to survive, so he passed the mantle to his son Leto, who became the tyrant and instituted the breeding program that produced humans possessed of true free will (as evidenced by his own inability to see their futures, which is what allowed them to overthrow him, which was the final necessity in ensuring that they would not fall into extinction).

  That is a far fucking cry from just giving up and running and hiding and leaving your friends to die after almost murdering your own nephew in fear. This doesn't give Luke depth, it just makes him a colossal failure in every way that matters! That isn't necessary to make the story interesting.

And contrary to your belief, there are people in the real world who aspire to rise above their weaknesses, be there for those who need them, and make the world a better place. Fanciful heroes embody that spirit and give us inspiration to keep trying. People like you shitting on the heroes that inspire us doesn't make anything better.

Take your cynicism elsewhere, thank you.

Thank wikipedia

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

As the movie ended and as we were walking out I told my family, "Going to look up in the Wikipedia to know what I just saw", and about six people within ear shot we nodding, "I'm with you buddy!"

Isn't it interesting the personal body guards serving an evil personified show such great loyalty to him even after he was dead?

It is three generations after Anakin was burnt completely except his head. And they were able to keep him alive. They can't to that to Snoke?

What is there that could burn with such nice orange and yellow hydro carbon flames in space ships?

How come the dreadnought class battle cruiser or whatever it is can be split into two but still there is breathable atmosphere for all?

Why do I get flash backs of Guns of Navarone like barrels and recoils? and why do spacecraft bank when they turn?

I was hoping for an ultimate plot twist like, Rey is the daughter of a long living space being being that is the "father" of Anakin with Shmi (and erased her memory after). Thus making Rey a step sister of Anakin and an aunt for Luke. No such luck. I don't believe Kylo. There is a story behind Rey's origins.

The movie was fine, but full of problems.

[fahrbot-bot]

The movie was fine, but full of problems that detract from the story. The best review I've read discussing those problems is 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi': The Full Shapiro Review (spoilers). The review also discusses good parts and things that work toward the bottom, but that list is way shorter than the list of problems.

Critical success, but is it Star Wars?

[steveha]

This movie did a lot of things right, and I'm going to watch it again, but there are many things that make me question whether it should have been made as a Star Wars movie.

Visually it's great. It looks like a Star Wars movie, and speaking as a fan I'm glad they used so many practical effects instead of computer generated effects.

Plot-wise it is a bit of a roller-coaster ride. Ups and downs. Some funny moments.

But when you think about the overall story and what is going on, it's bleak and depressing, far beyond what is tonally appropriate for Star Wars.

Spoilers follow. This whole topic is spoilery anyway.

People didn't like how The Empire Strikes Back ended on a "down" note. Oh my gosh, this movie was at least a thousand times bleaker. Apparently after the big success of blowing up the second Death Star and the death of the Emperor, the Rebellion spent the next 40 years or so losing and losing and losing. The Rebellion starts the movie with one capital ship, a medical ship and some sort of freighter or something; and only a few dozen X-Wing fighters. Then they take horrific losses and end the movie with literally a couple of dozen surviving members on board a battered old freighter. The only senior figure left in the Rebellion is Leia. They have no resources, and no allies (the allies they thought they had did not come when they were needed the most).

This is so bleak and depressing that it's painful to think about. But at least we get Luke training Rey as a Jedi, right? Oh no; Luke is bitter, and instead of learning from what happened and moving on, he spent decades in self-imposed exile; he said, in so many words, that he went to that planet to die. And in fact he didn't give Rey any useful training. He promised three lessons, and gave two, and they were great lessons if her big problem was that she was stuck-up and had an inflated sense of her own importance; her actual problem was that she was truly gifted in the Force yet had no idea what to do or how to use the Force, in short that she needed good training.

Then there is the whole Finn and Rose sub-plot where they try to get a codebreaker. Their efforts are worse than useless. The codebreaker somehow figured out that the rebels were sneaking away and tipped off the First Order. (I really don't know how a codebreaker could figure this out; Finn couldn't have told him because Finn didn't know either.) The rebel plan to sneak away was working until the codebreaker tipped off the bad guys, so something like 90% of the surviving rebels died because of that codebreaker guy.

And why did they take the risk of the whole codebreaker thing? Because the Vice Admiral didn't tell Poe that she actually had a plan, and she went out of her way to let him think she had no plan and everyone was going to die. Was this to "teach him a lesson"? Makes no sense, and that lesson came at a horrific cost.

I hope that the writers have a plan already for Episode IX. The story is at such a low point that it will take a truly amazing plan to have the Rebellion come roaring back and defeat the bad guys.

Now, I'll briefly talk about stuff I liked.

I really enjoyed the bit at the beginning where Poe was all alone in an X-Wing in front of the First Order ships. Some people say all the comedy fell flat, but the bit where he was stalling for time by pretending he wasn't hearing anything was IMHO laugh-out-loud funny.

I think that one of the stupidest George Lucas ideas from the prequels is being redeemed. (Not midichlorians... that bit of stupidity is irredeemable.) There was this prophecy of "the one who will bring balance to the Force" and that whole thing went nowhere in the prequels. Well, maybe Rey is about to bring balance to the Force. She isn't afraid of the Dark Side and the Dark Side doesn't seem to be pushing her to do evil things... and Yoda seems to think she will do better without the historical teachings of the Jedi. Maybe she will be able to embra

Re:Critical success, but is it Star Wars?

[Anonymous Coward]

You wrote "Finn couldn't have told him because Finn didn't know either."

There is a moment where Poe Dameron radios Finn to hurry because they are getting ready to evacuate the survivors on small craft. He didn't reveal the part about the hidden planet because he didn't know, but this is how the codebreaker overhears the part about the small craft.

That brings me to what I couldn't stand about the movie; the over-the-top political correctness where they have consciously decided that white men are evil. I have three daughters; I welcomed the female hero and inclusiveness of the previous movie. But it was clear in this movie that the filmmakers weren't just expanding the tent to bring in diversity but making white men not welcome in the tent at all.

The First Order is led and dominated by white men - the "axis of evil" of Snoke, Hux, and Kylo are all white men. White men on the side of the Resistance are broken or incompetent. Luke is a broken man and Poe Dameron is twice shown to be an incompetent leader who loses more lives then he saves. Meanwhile, Princess Leia has developed the ability to rise from the dead and fly though space like Superman, and Laura Dern's character shows actual leadership incompetence that is praises onscreen as a paragon of virtue.

The entire Finn-Rose adventure is pointless. It does not advance the plot as they fail in their mission, nor does it advance character development. Every scene with Finn and Rose from the moment they meet until the moment they come crashing back onto Crait could have been cut from the movie and there would be no important loose ends left behind. The only reason I can think this sequence was left in was for social equality reasons. It gives the asian woman and black man something to do, it introduces class struggle to Star Wars via the primarily white 1% on Canto Bight, and it demonstrates once again the recklessness of Poe Dameron.

I genuinely enjoyed the beginning of the movie, corny humor and all. But at some point I realized that Rian Johnson was making everything in the story meaningless (Snoke, Rey's background, Luke, etc.) and going beyond inclusiveness by making white men the evil behind every corner. Combine this with his off-stage comments and I realize he is out to reshape Star Wars to fit his own agenda, not extend the franchise that was 40 years in the making.

*

Sabers are swords

[Freischutz]

Just like the rest of these children's movies for stupid kids who don't know shit, especially not physics. Advertisement for action figures for children, it should be forbidden or at least called what it is.

Hell they didn't even get the name for the stupid light_sabers_ right? Sabers are _curved_, that's what differentiates them from a sword.

Firstly, sabers are swords just like a Ferrari is a car. Secondly, while the saber started out as a curved bladed adopted by Europeans through contact with the Ottomans, by the 19th and early 20th century sabers became progressively more straight bladed. The US Model 1913 Cavalry saber for example, had a completely straight blade as did many other contemporary sabers. but you are right in that the 'light saber' has nothing in common with any kind of saber. If the lightsaber is anything it's a kind of 'laser shikomizue' or something (one of the few straight bladed Japanese swords I can think of other than a Shinobigatana). Kylo Ren's weapon is more of a 'laser longsword' and he uses it a bit like one too. That was kind of interesting to watch because the 'light sabers' in Star Wars are used in a somewhat 'katana-esque' manner and it is always fun to see Talhoffer and Liechtenauer's ideas clash with the Japanese mindset. Mind you it's way more fun to watch at a HEMA event where the Longswordsman and the Katanna fanboy are both purists and both of them actually know precisely what they are doing.

Re:We need a better ratings system for movies

[JohnFen]

The only reviewers whose opinion matters are those who have similar tastes to yours. That's the whole point -- to give you an idea if you, personally, would enjoy the movie or not.

Re:**more spoilers**

[Digital Avatar]

The take-away is clear: men are violent and selfish and foolish, whereas women are wise and loving and competent.

Yeah, that did annoy me. It would've been great to see Rey buy into Kylo Ren's speech and join him, so the failure of the Jedi would've been complete. Likewise, Poe didn't have to be a gun-happy dumbass, nor did Holdo have to maintain secrecy around what she had intended. Also, Rose didn't need to exist as a character, and that entire sub-plot around her and Fin looking for some cryptologist was so fucking contrived it made it really hard to stay awake when they were on screen.

Re:Good movie, but Luke == Flynn in Tron Legacy

[SuiteSisterMary]

I liked some of what they did, but so much of the movie was just a series of straight-up 'take that's' at TFA and the prequels. Rey's parents? Nobodies. Luke's lightsaber? Tossed away, then broken for no good reason. From a certain point of view? Ben and Luke's different perceptions of that fateful night. Poe is a swashbuckling derring-doer and gets his whole squad killed? Fuck you, Star Wars is swashbuckling space opera, it's SUPPOSED to work like that.

My main problem with the Luke story is that it erased all of his growth from ESB and ROTJ, and turned him right back into a whiney little bitch who wanted to go to Tosche Station and pick up some power converters. They could have had him being an inscrutable old master who went into seclusion to discover where he went wrong, and figure out where to go from there, but instead, he was just running away and hiding. He should have been training Rey like an old kung-fu master, or like Yoda. Yoda's force ghost should have shown up and been like 'That bad, was I? So silly, my training techniques were?'

Having Luke's final interaction with Leia and Ben be nothing but an illusion robbed it of EVERYTHING. Luke should have shown up on the planet in person, kissed Leia, apologized for Ben, then strode out and called Ben out. The AT-ATs and what not should have been wiped away with a wave of the hand when they tried to interfere. Luke should have absolutely CLOWNED Ben, then simply turned off his lightsaber, said something like 'You see? Even though I'm far more powerful than you, I still failed. Strength alone is never enough' and Obi-Wan'd out. Rey should have been left on the Falcon, at the end, looking across all of the old Jedi texts, and one new one, written by Luke Skywalker. She should have been the inheritor of his new understanding, the one to actually put it into practice.