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Rumors Swirl That Secret Zuma Satellite Launched By SpaceX Was Lost (scientificamerican.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the top-secret dept.

Many media outlets are reporting that the U.S. government's top-secret Zuma satellite may have run into some serious problems during or shortly after its Sunday launch. Zuma was launched atop a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from Florida's Cape Canaveral Air Force Station Sunday evening -- a launch that also featured a successful landing back on Earth by the booster's first stage. While everything seemed fine at the time, rumors began swirling within the spaceflight community that something had happened to Zuma. "According to one source, the payload fell back to Earth along with the spent upper stage of the Falcon 9 rocket," Ars Technica's Eric Berger wrote. Scientific American reports: To be clear: There is no official word of any bad news, just some rumblings to that effect. And the rocket apparently did its job properly, SpaceX representatives said. "We do not comment on missions of this nature, but as of right now, reviews of the data indicate Falcon 9 performed nominally," company spokesman James Gleeson told Space.com via email. Space.com also reached out to representatives of aerospace company Northrop Grumman, which built Zuma for the U.S. government. "This is a classified mission. We cannot comment on classified missions," Northrop Grumman spokesman Lon Rains said via email. All we know about the satellite itself is that it was destined for a low-Earth orbit and built for the U.S. government. We will update this story if we hear anything else about Zuma's status.

27 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. It may be lost .. it may be not by sTERNKERN · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I was a secret agency with an agenda and everybody watched my satellite being sent up into space I'd claim it was lost, too.

    1. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by MrKaos · · Score: 4, Funny

      If I was a secret agency with an agenda and everybody watched my satellite being sent up into space I'd claim it was lost, too.

      Maybe it's fake news.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    2. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Smart people around the world have learned to look for the extra "darkness" of a US sat thats trying to hide.
      No new darkness, no new bright light ? No new sat? Did they get it just right this time?
      Misty (satellite) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I was the head of a secret agency with an agenda that just watched my multi-billion dollar spy satellite burn up in orbit due to my own agency's extreme incompetence I'd proudly declare that it was a complete loss and instruct my mockingbird CIA puppets in the media to call anyone who said otherwise a conspiracy theorist.
      Then I'd go have a drink and give myself a raise.

    4. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Depends on who is making the claim it was lost, if it was the Govt, then i would say possible cover up. If it was neutral 3rd parties that might have been monitoring the launch then there might be some truth to it. For example you could have been following the launch with a telescope and see the upper stage blow up in space. Though thats not to say that the upper stage couldn't have had multiple components, one piece designed as a decoy to blow up, while the real payload continued on is way. Would make it seem to a witness on the ground that something wrong happened, while the actual payload continued safely on its way.

    5. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      AC if it was a 100% gov/mil project then its cool to just try again. Nobody would know.

      The problem now is the private sector wants to claim its been successful for their role.
      So other projects have faith in their ability to put their things into space without fall apart.
      It got into space at the right location and time. The private sector did everything correct and then something after it moved away and became a gov/mil project?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      If they have nearly unlimited resources to hide or obfuscate something, there is basically no way to know. It doesn't matter what they say, does it work, does it not work, what does it do, what does it not do. We can't know, because anything could be another layer of the cover story.

      Same as it always was.

    7. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

      Hopefully the US is building a Rods from God kinetic bombardment system with all those secret launches.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The God Emperor will smite North Korean rockets with his mind! With our mind! My cup runneth over!

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    8. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by fred911 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "It may have had it's own thrusters that failed to operate after separation from the rocket"

      Except that Northrop Grumman provided its own payload adapter for this mission and wasn't SpaceX's design, nor their responsibility.

      https://www.theverge.com/2018/...
      "So what actually happened? No one is saying for certain, but there are a couple scenarios in which the Falcon 9 could have performed as it was supposed to and the spacecraft didnâ(TM)t deploy correctly. Typically, SpaceX uses its own hardware on top of its rocket to send a satellite into orbit, what is known as a payload adapter. Itâ(TM)s an apparatus that physically separates the satellite from the upper part of the rocket and sends it into orbit. However, a previous report from Wired noted that Northrop Grumman provided its own payload adapter for this mission. And if that payload adapter failed, it would have left the satellite still attached to the upper portion of the rocket. Thatâ(TM)s certainly a mission failure, but it wouldnâ(TM)t necessarily be the fault of the Falcon 9."

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      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    9. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yep.

      Right now the focus is being put on the payload adapter, which mates the spacecraft to the stage. Normally SpaceX provides their own adapters, but for this mission, Northrop created a custom adapter for the spacecraft (makes you wonder what the unusual requirements were?)

      If the satellite was to be some sort of "stealth" payload, capable of hiding from ground observation, then "faking a separation failure" might be a perfectly prudent course of action. However, for most satellites, it would be immediately obvious whether it had separated or not, to any nation paying attention. And I'm sure lots of nations were paying attention to this.

      --
      The chloride owes the sodium money.
    10. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by hey! · · Score: 2

      In that case you have to ask who it is a secret from. China and Russia have anti-satellite weapons and so presumably have the technology to track objects in orbit.

      Unless it is a stealth satellite. The USNRO had a stealth (optical and radar) reconnaissance satellite program which they spent almost twelve billion on by the time it was cancelled in 2007.

      If it actually was cancelled. The only thing better than the ability to spy on your rivals is the ability to spy on them without them knowing you can do it.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    11. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by Arzaboa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are right, and its terrible.

      We live in a society where people have been convinced that they do talk about this stuff. They think yelling at each other about news headlines is equal to putting two and two together. They think holding people to the fire is a tweet-mob. People re-enforce that all of the time, because "They're too tired to think about it right now." How do you convince a group of people that their effort isn't much of one at all, when they are exhausted from trying?

      --
      It's all in the wrist

    12. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      SpaceX is saying they did that, they got the payload to where it needed to be to separate from the rocket. The suggestion is that it failed to separate, but that doesn't mean the actual launch itself failed. It means the mission failed, if that's true, but the launch and the mission aren't the same thing.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    13. Re:It may be lost .. it may be not by erapert · · Score: 2

      What do you want? You want armed insurrection right this very minute? Against the most powerful military in human history?

      That's unrealistic. Things are just too comfy to go burning the entire country down. I got internet and plenty of food and water and shelter. Life isn't so bad that I want to risk it and almost the entire country is thinking this same way.

      Any other option amounts to basically impotent whining that the government can ignore.

  2. Isn't it cute... by unwesen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... how life imitates art?

    "Classified" does not mean secret. It merely means that it got assigned a classification level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    But films in particular seem to find it using "classified" instead of the actual classification level much cooler. And now people use it for real.

    1. Re:Isn't it cute... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The classification level of the classified mission is very classified.

      Posted as AC for classified reasons...

    2. Re:Isn't it cute... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Informative

      In my own experience with military and NATO people, "classified" in everyday parlance means "assigned a classification level other than Unclassified". And in some cases you may not want to disclose the actual classification level. "That is classified" is useful shorthand for "Sorry, you cannot have / share this, because reasons", and applies internally as well between departments or organisations, not just the press. It's not a term made up by Hollywood.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:Isn't it cute... by hey! · · Score: 2

      Stay classy.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  3. Could it simply be a false report? by BlueCoder · · Score: 2

    If it's super secret then maybe they made it disappear. It could be where it's suppose to be or never have actually launched.

    1. Re:Could it simply be a false report? by AHuxley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Keeping the population in closed science cities kept other nations human spies out.
      Re "If it's super secret then maybe they made it disappear"
      Most nations with "nuclear" ambitions and other well hidden production lines have their "university" "astronomers" map the spies above their nation.
      For anything new and bright. Anything "new" that blocks out the existing data. Anything on the move.
      Nobody wants a new spy sat or spy platform thats on the move over their nation at an unexpected times.
      The mil toys get worked on when the spy sats have passed for a time then hide again.
      For the price of a few "astronomers" and a super computer any nation could have had some level of secrecy.
      That space plane upset all their nice calculations with its wide changes every 24h.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:Could it simply be a false report? by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      If they pay to launch an empty rocket, that might cost other countries a lot of money searching for nothing! They probably do that.

  4. Technically it met its goals by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    All we know about the satellite itself is that it was destined for a low-Earth orbit and built for the U.S. government.

    Well, it did achieve low-earth orbit... just somewhat lower than planned, and its tidally locked with the planet. But it's still orbiting once every 24 hours.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Technically it met its goals by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 2

      If only we had a spacecraft that could maneuver close to it, grab it with a big arm, put it in the spacecraft's payload bay, and take it where it was supposed to go. That would be amazing.

      We did but it turned out to be ludicrously expensive to operate, flew missions at a rate an order of magnitude less than it was projected to do, and had an annoying tendency to kill astronauts who rode in it.

      The Shuttle was and still is a shitty design, an example of what you get when too many compromises are made on the original design objectives. We'd have been far better off spending that money on uprated Saturn V's.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    2. Re:Technically it met its goals by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hint: think very very low.

    3. Re:Technically it met its goals by laurencetux · · Score: 3, Funny

      Like say a negative perigee??

  5. How uncertain? by rew · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Government officials confirm the mission was lost".

    Now you might doubt the veracity of that statement and keep your tinfoil hat on, but it doesn't get more certain than that.

    This: "rumors are going around that" story is simply a few hours older than the "it has been confirmed that"....
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technol...
    http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/0...

  6. Payload did not separate by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Informative

    One article specifically pointed blame at Northrop Grumman, stating that the mechanism that controlled the release of the payload from the upper stage was built and controlled by Northrop Grumman. Which is why SpaceX can state that on their end, everything performed perfectly.

    --
    Better known as 318230.