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Russian Military Base Attacked By Drones (bellingcat.com)
A Russian military base in Syria was recently attacked -- 20 miles from the frontline. The only video of the attack is from a Facebook group for a nearby town, which identifies the noises as an "anti-aircraft response to a remote-controlled aircraft," while the Russian Ministry of Defence claims at least 13 drones were involved in the attack, displaying pictures of drones with a wingspan around 13 feet (four meters).
Long-time Slashdot reader 0x2A shares a report from a former British Army officer who calls drones "the poor man's Air Force," who writes that the attack shows "a strategic grasp of the use of drones, as well as a high level of planning." The lack of cameras on the drones suggest that they are likely pre-loaded with a flight plan and then flown autonomously to their target, where they dropped their payload en masse on a given GPS coordinate... The lack of any kind of claim, or even rumours from the rebels, indicates that whoever is producing these drone and launching these attacks has a high level of discipline and an understanding of operational and personal security...
Although some regard the threat from commerical off-the-shelf and improvised drones as negligible, they have the power to inflict losses at both a tactical and strategic level... Although the plastic sheeting, tape and simple design may belie the illusion of sophistication, it seems that the use of drones, whether military, commerical off-the-shelf or improvised, is taking another step to becoming the future of conflict.
The article notes there's already been four weaponized drone attacks in Syria over the last two weeks, which according to CNBC may be part of a growing trend. "Experts said swarm-like attacks using weaponized drones is a growing threat and likely to only get worse. They also said the possibility exists of terrorists using these drones in urban areas against civilians."
Long-time Slashdot reader 0x2A shares a report from a former British Army officer who calls drones "the poor man's Air Force," who writes that the attack shows "a strategic grasp of the use of drones, as well as a high level of planning." The lack of cameras on the drones suggest that they are likely pre-loaded with a flight plan and then flown autonomously to their target, where they dropped their payload en masse on a given GPS coordinate... The lack of any kind of claim, or even rumours from the rebels, indicates that whoever is producing these drone and launching these attacks has a high level of discipline and an understanding of operational and personal security...
Although some regard the threat from commerical off-the-shelf and improvised drones as negligible, they have the power to inflict losses at both a tactical and strategic level... Although the plastic sheeting, tape and simple design may belie the illusion of sophistication, it seems that the use of drones, whether military, commerical off-the-shelf or improvised, is taking another step to becoming the future of conflict.
The article notes there's already been four weaponized drone attacks in Syria over the last two weeks, which according to CNBC may be part of a growing trend. "Experts said swarm-like attacks using weaponized drones is a growing threat and likely to only get worse. They also said the possibility exists of terrorists using these drones in urban areas against civilians."
A "swarm" of a dozen of these big beasts, as reported, should be pretty easy for modern radar systems to spot, no?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I just designed and built a similar, though smaller plane from scratch. Based on the reported wingspan of three to four meters, we estimate the payload capacity at around 6kg.
Based on my experience with people professional pyro, I'd say that a 6kg weapon using a simple explosive like black powder would be a dangerous item to have laying around the house, but not particularly effective as a military weapon. (Remember most of the weight is the casing, it would be less than a kg of explosive composition.). Modern military explosives are significantly more powerful, and much harder to make, if the people launching these have access to a good supply of military explosives.
The days of piloted military aircraft are waning.
"You can't get air superiority with drones."
I can.
You fly into my territory with your $200 million a pop super jets and you'll fly into a swarm of cheap-ass drones, use up your bullets and then it's easy pick'ins - and body bags going home.
Rinse and repeat.
Guess who's gonna win in the long run. The F-22 and F-35 are already obsolete.
"Build quality terrible! Would not bomb again!" ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
it's only a matter of time when drones will be used in Western cities for terrorist attacks. And I doubt it'll be a long wait, because we have no real deterrent or countermesure. It's about as efective as a suicide bomber, without having to use up a suicider.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
You can't put technology "back in the box" and drones are here to stay. This type of weaponry has been in a popular viral video. Swarms of small drones can be quite dangerous, though we are maybe 20ish years behind on the on board processing shown in the linked video and it's uncertain how you would design a power source light yet powerful yet stores tons of power to give them enough run time. Unfortunately, drone weapons like these don't suffer from needing overly complex processing nor mission run time and can tide us all over 'till true Armageddon arrives.
Wait until somebody catches on to modding a large Styrofoam model into a UAV. Fly it nice and high and it might look like a bird on radar if it shows up at all. Fly a bunch of them like a flock of birds, maybe even paint them to look vaguely like something indigenous to the area just in case... then let them drop on their GPS target.
Military bases putting up walls of lead are going to be VERY unpopular with the surround area where said lead walls will eventually drop.
These drone attacks came not long after a mortar barrage at the same base in Hmeimim, Syria. In that attack, two Russian soldiers were killed and seven Russian jets were either damaged or destroyed, with another report saying up to ten planes were hit. Of those confirmed damaged, only two returned to operational service.
Whoever is behind these attacks has a high level of sophistication and operational awareness. With the ease of making and using drones, expect to see more such attacks and in even greater numbers.
If we make them illegal then it will be a whole lot harder for these terrorists to get them, which will make everyone much safer.
Its only a few steps to automating vehicles and magnifying your potential payload about 1000x. Scale the Tech with Relays. Any first year electronics student could do it.
" Although the plastic sheeting, tape and simple design may belie the illusion of sophistication, "
The only people who care about that are the Drone Design Fashion Police.
The rest just doesn't want bombs to fall from the sky or worse, fly into building via doors and windows.
Begun This Drone War Has
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
The Clinton Foundation has been investing in drone technology using saudi money for years now. Add in the well known Soros penchant for weapons systems and their shared anti-Russia nuttery and you have a perfect storm brewed up for this attack. Lock them up.
A bit of elbow grease and you can have your very own personal air force. "You looking at me? YOU LOOKIN' AT ME?!"
Is it supposed to be 'here here' or 'hear hear'?
No, he's not there, he's here.
The thread already has 38 posts and not a single "In Soviet Russia" joke?
I guess I'll have to be the one.
"In Soviet Russia, drones attack YOU!"
Soon it will take over.
If 10 drones are coming and need to shoot 10 patriot missiles, it gets a little expensive. Especially if it happens every other day. Also, it's not really sure current defenses work really well against a swarm.
Maybe the old-style anti-aircraft weapons can be brought back into action.
In my payload estimate I forgot to account for how far they are going. If they take off from the front line, 20 miles away, they'll burn very roughly a kilogram of fuel (could be half that, or twice that). So figure 5kg of payload.
The fuel burn over such long distance for a craft that small will significantly affect CG unless it's carefully designed to have the tank right at the CG. That makes design and flight harder.
Laser platforms would work well.
These drones literally grown on trees, which is how the Russian separatists were able to get hold of so many of them without needing to get them from the regular Russian army.
I guess it must be the same in Syria too.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
They should check carefully if they have 'property of CIA' inscribed anywhere.
Actually, on a side note: Some of the chips that are needed for drones (ARM controllers, IMUs) have serial numbers (such as mac addresses). Could track the supply chain!
46137
........
In world war 2, aircraft could only fly to altitudes at about 30,000 feet. This was considered 'high altitude'. The USAAF (US Army Air Force) would drop bombs using the "Norton Bomb Sight" which was considered a high precision instrument, and top secret. Its accuracy: about 3/4 of a mile. 3/4 of a mile was considered "right on the pickle barrel". Up to about 1970, accuracy didn't improve that much, until GPS and "steerable tail kits". Then you could take a "dumb" world war 2 style bomb, and stick a GPS attached to steerable fins (usually a few thousand dollars worth of parts), and get "dumb bombs" to hit targets within a few meters or less, and if they were off, they were at least heading in the right direction. To take a drone which can only lift maybe a few pounds worth of material, and make that material 1/4 pound of HMX and 3/4 pounds of ball bearings, and you have an anti-personnel bomb that can kill everyone within 300 feet. If the material is rust and powdered aluminum and a battery that gets a wire to red hot, you have a thermite device that can melt tank armor. GPS chips are cheap, and all the drones have them. Even if you lost all of your drones, you can do a lot of damage.
Is it supposed to be 'here here' or 'hear hear'?
There, there.
Ezekiel 23:20
Old news is old!
the remnants of Syria and the CIA-backed rebels don't have the means to purchase, build, and operates these drones, even if some company would actually sell them to a non-adress in a war-torn Syria. Without a doubt, America's own terrorist organization CIA is behind this.
Be aware that all drones will be marked in such a way that would they be brought down and inspected, they would implicate another of America's targets, such as Iran.
He's where? I didn't hear he was here.
More complex than 3 or 4 religious devotees building a weapon in a garage.
This was built by a compartmentalized chain of command invoking medium-term strategies, not front-line troops using materials on-hand.
The lack of individual pilots means a smaller task-force not burdened by a communications array with the downside of being unable to attack individual or opportunistic targets.
> I don't think you grasp why so much weight is in the casing... which is to produce shrapnel.
First, what in the world would make you think I don't know why I build my casings the way I do? Second, you are mistaken about the reason. With a low explosive such as black powder, flash, etc casing thickness is all about the pressure developed. Unconfined, these explosives don't so much as explode as burn quickly. The explosion comes from what's essentially a pressure vessel explosion. The burning composition produces a lot of gas very quickly, which creates a lot of pressure. Eventually it blows like a balloon that's been inflated too far. A weak casing will rupture exactly like a balloon - weakly. A strong casing won't rupture until there is a very high pressure, creating a powerful explosion.
A casing that's TOO strong will waste weight, peel open instead of fracturing, and some point not rupture at all.
Next time you think about correcting you might first ask yourself "do I have a clue what I'm talking about?" When you're considering educating someone about what they do, maybe ask yourself "have I ever even once *tried* doing this? Do I really know better than the people who do this stuff?"
They have the motive and CIA has a very long history of supporting Islamic terrorism, Al Qaeda and ISIS. CIA is behind this.
Several NGO's have been working at the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Yes, high explosives don't require confinement to explode, or much confinement. As I said, they are also much more difficult to make or acquire especially to make safely.
Which is why I discussed the two separately, saying "simple explosives like black powder", flash comp, etc ... ...
If they have ready access to modern high explosives
I can make LE at Walmart or Home Depot, using items readily available in those stores. HE is a different animal. If I tried to make HE from readily available ingredients, there would be a significant likelihood I'd die.
A closer look at the drones, I noticed bicycle chain in this picture
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2018/01/12/104943898-GettyImages-903852522.530x298.jpg?v=1515783408 ... from article ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/12/russia-says-it-eliminated-rebels-behind-swarm-drone-attack-in-syria.html
From the looks of it, the drones are easy to make, which makes it a very useful tool for terrorists everywhere to launch their terror campaigns
A lot of people are criticising how cheaply made these drones were, but simplicity is genius...
The amount spent by the Russians to shoot these drones down must have vastly exceeded the cost to build and launch the drones, not to mention the cost of repairing/replacing anything that the drones managed to hit. If you can spend $50 and cause your enemy to waste $500 repelling your attack then you've achieved a successful result.
The drones didn't have cameras, but assuming they did - how would the footage have got back to the drone operators? Chances are the Russians would be jamming any transmissions, and if the drone was programmed to fly back with recorded footage the Russians could follow it and attack whoever came to collect the footage.
As for a lack of GPS, there are plenty of other ways to navigate especially if you know where the target is, the nazis had flying bombs which were built to just run out of fuel and crash onto london.
These drones look like they were built to be cheap, easily/quickly manufactured and disposable. Modern militaries are typically set up to fight similar forces, they will need to adjust their strategy to deal with this kind of threat.
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But Trump just keeps on winning
A lot of people are criticising how cheaply made these drones were, but simplicity is genius...
The amount spent by the Russians to shoot these drones down must have vastly exceeded the cost to build and launch the drones, not to mention the cost of repairing/replacing anything that the drones managed to hit. If you can spend $50 and cause your enemy to waste $500 repelling your attack then you've achieved a successful result.
Only if you have at least 10% of the resources of your enemy available... otherwise you will run out of steam before the enemy, which is not a successful result.
I don't give a rats ass about why you build your casings the way do you. Your casings aren't the topic of discussion here. Military weapons are the topic of discussion.
Nobody with an IQ over the freezing point of water is talking about low explosives, because the odds that someone is using such explosives are roughly nil.
Again, nobody with an IQ above the freezing point of water (a group which excludes you) is discussing a casing that's "too strong".
I did, and the answer is, I do.
You have provided absolutely zero evidence that you've done such things. You've provided abundant evidence you have zero clue - and even more evidence that you're an ignorant shithead trying to impress someone who does know. You've failed.
Well needing 10% of their resources is better than needing 100%, you have to be frugal in war especially when fighting a superior enemy.
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In the real world, antiaircraft missiles are a couple million dollars each.
I seriously doubt it costs a tenth as much to build these. More like 1/100th, if that much. Possibly as little as 1/1000th.
Santa Ana Winds: Like the Dustbowl, but with awards shows.
I seem to remember reading Hitler claimed that Poland attacked some German border posts and as proof displayed the bodies of the dead German defenders. Based on that he declared war on Poland, thus starting WWII.
Of course the dead bodies were those of executed convicts and the attacks were just set up to give him an excuse to invade.
So now Putin (I presume) is claiming an attack on Russian forces. So letâ(TM)s see who the prime mover behind all the âoeFake Newsâ in the world will decide to blame. (Trump isnâ(TM)t the prime producer, heâ(TM)s the prime consumer). Will it be the Iraqis? The Kurds? The Americans? If itâ(TM)s anyone other than ISIS, Iâ(TM)d be skeptical of what he claims
Has he given secret service a bigger budget for him to steal this year?
Even the hamas monkeys manage to work with HE just fine.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
The same principle still applies however.
The Russian ecconamy isn't small, and they don't have to be efficient if they can absorb the waste longer than the enemy can afford the offensive.
Nobody with an IQ over the freezing point of water is talking about low explosives
Go back and read your own post that I replied to. Maybe read this part:
Black powder is a low explosive, btw. You're ranting maniacly without even reading, even your OWN posts.
As for a lack of GPS, there are plenty of other ways to navigate especially if you know where the target is, the nazis had flying bombs which were built to just run out of fuel and crash onto london.
If you're thinking of the V-1, they didn't "just run out of fuel and crash onto london." See "Guidance system" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb.
The V-2 didn't "just run out of fuel and crash onto london." See "Technical details" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket.
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
The drones didn't have cameras, but assuming they did - how would the footage have got back to the drone operators? Chances are the Russians would be jamming any transmissions, and if the drone was programmed to fly back with recorded footage the Russians could follow it and attack whoever came to collect the footage.
Jamming does not work like that. You jam a receiver so it cannot distinguish the transmitter and this is much easier when you have proximity to the receiver instead of the transmitter. In this case, if the jamming transmitter is on the ground, it may not even have line of sight to the receiver further reducing its effectiveness compared to the transmitter which is airborne.
Jamming GPS is made easier, it is actually trivial unless the receiver is built to be jam resistant, by the transmitters being far away and the receivers being close which is the opposite of a drone transmitting back to its sender.
As for a lack of GPS, there are plenty of other ways to navigate especially if you know where the target is, the nazis had flying bombs which were built to just run out of fuel and crash onto london.
I looked into this a couple years ago and concluded that dead reckoning, magnetic compass, and radio direction finding of broadcast transmitters like FM , TV, and cellular would be suitable for gross navigation until GPS jamming stopped however I do not think this would be sufficient for precision bombing unless the broadcast transmitters were close and radio direction finding could also be jammed.
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