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More Wall Street Pundits Caution Against Investing In Bitcoins (cnbc.com)

Peter Boockvar is the Chief Investment Officer of Bleakley Financial Group, a $3.5B wealth management firm -- and he predicts "an epic crash will hit the cryptocurrency market," according to CNBC. "He isn't sure if it'll come to a grinding halt or be a slow and steady drop -- but he says it's coming." "When something goes parabolic like this has, it typically ends up to where that parabola began," he said on CNBC's "Futures Now." Boockvar, a CNBC contributor, contends bitcoin is in danger of dropping 90 percent from current levels. He calls it a classic bubble. "I wouldn't be surprised if over the next year it's down to $1,000 to $3,000," he added. That's where bitcoin, the largest cryptocurrency player, was trading less than 12 months ago. Friday afternoon it was trading above $11,000.
Meanwhile, today the International Business Times chronicled the predictions of tech billionaire Mark Cuban. In June of last year as bitcoin was climbing toward the $3,000 threshold, Cuban cautioned potential investors about jumping in on the bandwagon... "[C]rypto is like gold. More religion than asset. Except of course gold makes nice jewelry." He told his followers at the time that he wasn't questioning the value of Bitcoin but was questioning the "valuation" and said , "I think it's in a bubble. I just don't know when or how much it corrects." Cuban suggested that when everyone is "bragging about how easy they are making [money]," that indicates there is a bubble happening...

Still, the Dallas Mavericks owner was open to the idea of using cryptocurrencies as a volatile investment vehicle. "If you're a true adventurer and you really want to throw the Hail Mary, you might take 10 percent and put it in Bitcoin or Ethereum," he said. Cuban also cautioned, "If you do that, you've got to pretend you've already lost your money"... Showing just have far Cuban has come on bitcoin and cryptocurrency, he announced earlier this week that his Dallas Mavericks will accept bitcoin and Ethereum as a method to pay for tickets starting next season. Even if the tech investor doesn't fully believe in cryptocurrency, he's clearly willing to try to profit off it...

177 comments

  1. Of course they do... by CRB9000 · · Score: 1

    ...they may be sane. They abide by buy low sell high. Bitcoin may never be stable enough to ever be a good idea.

    1. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "as it can't be manipulated by corrupt goverments and banks.
      If governments regulate the exchanges so much that they close, then the value will pretty much drop to zero.

    2. Re:Of course they do... by Koby77 · · Score: 1

      Because governments have successfully regulated stuff like marijuana and cocaine, and now their value is zero, right?

    3. Re:Of course they do... by jonesy16 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even if Bitcoins stay the same in value, it beats the living shit out of gold, and is far more secure against theft.

      Probably not a lot of gold owners sweating it out over the fear of their gold being stolen via the internet, or becoming worthless if their computers crash or they forget a password. But now we're getting into the differences between a store of value and a currency. Gold is a store of value, you don't use it for transactions as it's not well suited for that. Bitcoin wants to be a currency, but has its own shortcomings there (and let's not even get started discussing the number of high profile thefts of bitcoin to date ...)

    4. Re:Of course they do... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      It's possible to smoke a joint without leaving evidence of it all over the Internet. I don't think you can say the same for using BotCoin.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    5. Re:Of course they do... by thestuckmud · · Score: 1

      "Past performance is no guarantee of future results." This disclaimer is required by the SEC and NASD. It is often ignored by naive investors.

    6. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I don't think so. Even if every government in the world banned bitcoin exchanges, there would still be a value, and everyone would be free to trade them back and forth. There is already a very active community at http://localbitcoins.com/ where people exchange bitcoins for cash, gold and services without the need for an exchange. In reality, few governments can agree on anything, so we'll see some make moves against exchanges, but not many. Even if my country banned bitcoin outright, I'd be happy to fly down to say Thailand with my bitcoins printed on paper/emailed/etc for a few months and party hard every year....

    7. Re:Of course they do... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      If governments regulate the exchanges so much that they close, then the value will pretty much drop to zero.

      I don't think so. That sort of authoritarianism is exactly what Bitcoin was designed to circumvent. When governments start turning the screws on their own citizens, the demand and value of cryptocurrencies will soar.

    8. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean by "when"? You realize this is happening now right?

    9. Re:Of course they do... by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Funny

      You can store your bitcoin private key on a USB stick, next to your pile of gold coins, and it will be just as secure.

    10. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except gold doesn't self-destruct if you spill a glass of water on it.

    11. Re:Of course they do... by roca · · Score: 2

      How long does the memory on a USB stick last?

    12. Re:Of course they do... by c120plus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How long does the memory on a USB stick last?

      It's not safe. However, you can also burn it on a couple of blurays, print it and transfer it to microfilm. All these storage methods should easily outlast your lifetime... if you speak German, here's how to get your coins on a vinyl record https://www.heise.de/security/...

    13. Re:Of course they do... by rotovator · · Score: 1

      you consume marihuana, but how do you "consume" your bitcoins if the government shuts all the bussiness accepting it?? You trade them with people who can't use them either?

    14. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good grief, you are a gullible fool.

    15. Re:Of course they do... by djrosen · · Score: 1

      As long as you have the seed phrase it does not matter. If it dies, you buy another, give it your phrase and you get your wallet back.

    16. Re: Of course they do... by denis.goddard · · Score: 3, Informative

      ... which is why there is Monero

    17. Re:Of course they do... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      it goes up far more than it goes down.

      The word you're looking for is "went".

      it went up far more than it went down.

      That's better.

      I could point that it went down by 50% in the last few weeks. Is anybody here betting it's about to quadruple in the near future? If so, I've got some Bitcoin to sell you...

      --
      No sig today...
    18. Re:Of course they do... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      They don't have to ban any exchanges, they just have to understand blockchains.

      Your bitcoins only belong to you if more than 50% of the bitcoin mines agree that they do. A government-level agent with as many nodes as the NSA could easily spoof that if they wanted to "confiscate" somebody's bitcoins.

      --
      No sig today...
    19. Re:Of course they do... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      When do you estimate we'll start valuing the US dollar against the Bitcoin instead of the other way around?

      --
      No sig today...
    20. Re: Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As soon as thereâ(TM)s a $20T economy focused on holding inflation to 3% by adjusting supply as needed?

    21. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bitcoin may go up and down, but it goes up far more than it goes down. I'll take a tenfold increase with a 5% drop. It is currently the best investment out there, bar none, and only going to gain value, as it can't be manipulated by corrupt goverments and banks.

      Lets look at the US dollar. It is 5% of what it was worth 100 years ago. Bitcoin can't be affected by some group deciding to print more because they can. Fiat currencies are a scam. They make the rich richer, because their assets are not bound to currencies, while people taking home a paycheck wind up making less and less every year.

      Even if Bitcoins stay the same in value, it beats the living shit out of gold, and is far more secure against theft.

      Try telling that to your fellow zombie-slayers after the apocalypse. Seriously though, in the event of a government collapse, gold would be the first real currency (after we've evolved past gasoline, guns, ammunition, cigars, whisky, canned food, horses, etc.

    22. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like this: trunk car learn space garage frown jumbo locust exam unique anxious vacuum

    23. Re:Of course they do... by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      it goes up far more than it goes down.

      The word you're looking for is "went".

      it went up far more than it went down.

      That's better.
      I could point that it went down by 50% in the last few weeks. Is anybody here betting it's about to quadruple in the near future? If so, I've got some Bitcoin to sell you...

      The word you looking for is out. I'll let you figure it...

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    24. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been laughing at these guys every time they say this same old bullcrap for the past three years, buying more -- and I'm a LOT richer for it!

    25. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead it is manipulated by rogue governments and large criminal enterprises.

    26. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'll take a tenfold increase with a 5% drop.

      5%? It was above $19,000. Now it's about $10,500. Granted I'm no mathematician, but I'm not sure that 5% is correct.

    27. Re:Of course they do... by ASDFnz · · Score: 1

      Your bitcoins only belong to you if more than 50% of the bitcoin mines agree that they do.

      That is really not how it works.

      If more than 50% of miners conspire to take your ownership of bitcoin away from you they just made an altcoin. You still have your bitcoins.

    28. Re:Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bitcoin wants to be a currency, but has its own shortcomings there (and let's not even get started discussing the number of high profile thefts of bitcoin to date ...)

      Actually, Bitcoin Cash (BCH) wants to be a currency, Bitcoin (BTC) wants to be a store of value. At least that's how things have turned out.

    29. Re:Of course they do... by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      It's also a good way to spot fake "financial advisers." No real FA will risk his or her license by promising future returns, at least without such carefully chosen weasel words that FINRA and similar agencies will allow.

    30. Re: Of course they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and a dozen other privacy coins...

  2. He's not trying to profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [QUOTE]Even if the tech investor doesn't fully believe in cryptocurrency, he's clearly willing to try to profit off it[/QUOTE]

    He is taking a risk by accepting it as a form of payment.

    1. Re:He's not trying to profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if the tech investor doesn't fully believe in cryptocurrency, he's clearly willing to try to profit off it

      It's also a false statement. He said he believed in cryptocurrency but that he doesn't believe in its current valuations.

  3. By definition, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of pundit.

  4. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I am not sure what is. current crop of crypto is nearly 100% pure speculation and gambling.

  5. Uses of gold by theweatherelectric · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Except of course gold makes nice jewelry.

    And gold also has uses in electronics, medicine, and aerospace applications.

    1. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Goldschlager, like Jaegermeifter, is not medicine.

    2. Re:Uses of gold by Koby77 · · Score: 1

      Gold can be confiscated by the government as it crosses a boarder. Also, transferring $5mil in gold might be much more expensive due to security concerns, not to mention time-consuming depending on the distance. Bitcoin isn't perfect, but it does have a several advantages.

    3. Re:Uses of gold by sheramil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Gold can be confiscated by the government as it crosses a boarder. Also, transferring $5mil in gold might be much more expensive due to security concerns, not to mention time-consuming depending on the distance. Bitcoin isn't perfect, but it does have a several advantages.

      Gold doesn't disappear when the exchange vanishes.

    4. Re: Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You donâ(TM)t need an exchange to transfer between two wallets.

    5. Re: Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're stupid enough to keep your gold in a bank and the government decides to seize it.. yes
      Same with Bitcoin why would you keep them on an exchange? Move them to your fucking wallet, people..

    6. Re: Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      because wallets can be lost/stolen/hacked. The exact same reason people don't put all their money under a mattress. if your stupid enough to keep your life savings personally hidden with no insurance that is your business but please don't suggest to others that it is a smart decision. Banks and Governments provide certain benefits and insurance that bitcoin etc do not and most of us prefer that.

    7. Re:Uses of gold by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      A thought experiment on selling gold when needed in the future under very different regulations in a fictitious nation that has new tax rules.
      What to do with gold? Hold the gold until needed, selling domestically for cash sounds great.
      Who is going to give a good cash payment for that gold even with full ID and paperwork?
      Do they have to report that payment for gold to the gov?
      Steep new tax considerations could be in place after selling the gold?
      A short holiday to a more normal nation might allow bitcoin to be used without risking that domestic physical gold sale and any new regulations about a luxury tax, reporting.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re: Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gold doesn't disappear when you forgot your password, have your house burn down, have an accident that leaves you incapacitated and requires your family to access it to intercede on your behalf or any number of a thousand other really bad things that can happen when you are the only person to control your wallet. it is estimated a large percentage (upwards of 20%) of bitcoins are already irretrievably lost forever due to this already.

    9. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gold can be confiscated by the government as it crosses a boarder.

      Not if it's cemented to my teeth. The government might not like gold bugs, but that doesn't mean that they're going to yank my bridge out with a pair of pliers on my way through customs./p.

    10. Re:Uses of gold by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Says you. But I can vouch that it can cure all sorts of ailments. Especially consciousness.

      Much like bitcoins.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Uses of gold by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      History had enough bank crashes where the gold in the bank vanished ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    12. Re:Uses of gold by religionofpeas · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Industrial use of gold only account for 10% of the mined gold. The rest is hoarded in the form of coins, jewelry and bullion bars. The small amount of industrial use does not explain why it's being sold at such a large premium over production cost.

    13. Re:Uses of gold by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Gold recycling is huge. CPUs, motherboards, anything either made of gold or gold plated gets stripped clean in a chemical solution (aqua regia) only later to be re-solidfied and melted down into pure gold and resold.

      There's a reason all that e-waste gets shipped overseas. The labor is cheap enough to where it's worth-while to go through all the trouble.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    14. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GOLD IS NOT CURRENCY.
      Gold only has value because people who trade in gold pay a lot of money for it. It is a closed circle, an echo chamber. Unless you are specifically buying or selling gold as GOLD and not ornamentation or as part of a technical device it has very little value. I cannot go into a store and buy a loaf of bread with a gold coin unless the baker agrees to trade the gold for the bread. I cannot demand that the baker take my gold at its current value, give me a loaf of bread and all the change I would be due.
      Anyone who believes that gold will somehow magically keep it's current sky-high value in a real financial collapse should have their bank accounts taken away and never be allowed to do anything more than play Monopoly every again.

    15. Re:Uses of gold by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      One doesn't need an exchange.

      I would say that cryptocurrencies and gold have advantages and disadvantages. Cryptocurrencies can be easily stolen by a compromised app, or lost forever if one loses their password to their wallet, or loses their wallet. If someone has backups of their wallet, has something like a TREZOR or other hardware based item, it can be said that their security is better than having physical precious metals.

      Maybe a feature to be added would be the ability to recover a wallet from multiple places, a classic shared secret, where "x" out of "y" items (like 3 out of 5) are needed to remake it. That way, you can have a wallet backup split among three trusted people, where two of the three are needed for a recovery.

    16. Re:Uses of gold by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      If a bank has their safe deposit items "on the books", if they fail, everything in the safe deposit box can be taken. In fact, some banks explicitly have a warning or recommendation to not store coins in their vault, because of this.

      Of course, there is the fact that the government can ban ownership of gold at any time...

      Not to say that cryptocurrencies are the be-all and end-all, but gold isn't completely bulletproof either.

    17. Re:Uses of gold by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Also, people can't just invent a new form of gold with new features and security, thereby making gold obsolete.

    18. Re: Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with all of your points completely (in the current state of the world) but I do want to point out that gold was used as a currency dozens of times in the past and is very likely to be used as such again in the future, long after many current countries have their inevitable demise.

    19. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither does Bitcoin. Only dumbasses keep their coins on an exchange.

    20. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gold can be confiscated by the government as it crosses a boarder. Also, transferring $5mil in gold might be much more expensive due to security concerns, not to mention time-consuming depending on the distance. Bitcoin isn't perfect, but it does have a several advantages.

      Have you seen Bitcoin transaction fees lately?

    21. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did though, it's called bitcoin.

    22. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It USED to be and it is *GOLD STANDARD* (pun intended) currency in human history, you moron

    23. Re:Uses of gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have to keep your cryptocurrency in an exchange. Buy it from an exchange, send it to an offline paper wallet. It won't matter when exchange X crashes.
      When you're ready to cash out, sweep your paper wallet back to a software wallet and sweep it back to an exchange and cash out.
      If *all* exchanges shut down, then you'd have a problem. If nobody kept blockchains and recorded transactions anymore, then you'd have a problem.
      And the vast majority of "Gold" are bookkeeping entries, unless you have the metal in your hot little hands.... same as I have my paper wallet.
      Disclaimer: I don't think crypto currency is a suitable investment vehicle at all. I just have some because it's fun to gift people with a little Bitcoin Cash.

  6. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by gravewax · · Score: 1

    Pure FUD on your part. All those mentioned work for investment type firms, they do not lose by crypto's success, they will invest in whatever makes sense at the time, property, shares, currency, gold or hell even polished turds if it had a return. So should it make sense I am sure they will happily add cryptos to that, but first that would require some stability in the crypto market of which their is currently none.

  7. Incumbents scared of incoming disruption. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    News at 11

    1. Re:Incumbents scared of incoming disruption. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Umm... what disruption?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Design by perpenso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I remember a recent Ars Technica article correctly, bitcoin has had 4 exponential spikes in prices similar to the current one. After each there was about a 75% drop in price. The last one was in 2014, up to $1,100, then down to $250-300 and staying there for years until the current spike to $19,000 occurred.

    But now we have a new variable. Those past spikes were when bitcoin owners were largely geek speculators who were also true believers in bitcoin. This current spike coincided with wall street speculators getting involved and soon followed by speculators from the general public. These "newcomers" may not be as forgiving as the preceding "true believers".

    That said, don't conflate blockchain and bitcoin. Blockchain technology is likely to be part of our future. Bitcoin is just one user of blockchain technology, it may or may not be part of our future. "Not" is a serious possibility given that bitcoin has deviated from its design and its assumptions about its blockchain security are no longer valid. Its security required a global distributed community of miners who are regular individuals using their own computers and this has not been true for years. Bitcoin is plausibly vulnerable to mining cartels and government intervention due to the current state of affairs where we have a relatively small number of miners using expensive specialized ASIC hardware that is geographically located in a single country and reliant upon inexpensive government supplied electricity. Are cartels or the government likely to subvert the bitcoin blockchain? Probably not, but it remains plausible, and bitcoin security is based on the assumption that such things are not even remotely plausible.

    Bitcoin is entirely replaceable by a another coin with better security, new features and/or better performance. Before anyone makes a "network effect" argument, keep in mind that a network effect needs high switching costs to be effective. There is little to no switching cost to move from bitcoin to a different coin.

  9. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Plenty of stability. Crypto on the long run only goes UP.

  10. Could You Short Them? by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Could you short them in the usual way, betting that the price will drop against a current owner?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Could You Short Them? by Koby77 · · Score: 1

      Yes you can. Simply find an owner, and come up with an agreement where they will give you some bitcoin now, and then you will give it back to them at some point in the future. (Naked shorting may face certain complications, however.)

    2. Re:Could You Short Them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you short them in the usual way, betting that the price will drop against a current owner?

      Sure you can but before you do, read this:
      As The Bitcoin Short Quietly Grows, Is A Short Squeeze Imminent?

    3. Re:Could You Short Them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure you can but before you do, read this: As The Bitcoin Short Quietly Grows, Is A Short Squeeze Imminent?
      If link gets removed again, search for the article.

    4. Re:Could You Short Them? by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      Readers should be aware that Zero-hedge is NOT a mainstream financial publication. Not that it's necessarily wrong. But you aren't looking at the Wall Street Journal or Financial Times here. There's a wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... that doesn't seem to be wildly unbalanced.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    5. Re:Could You Short Them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Readers should be aware that Zero-hedge is NOT a mainstream financial publication.

      This is considered a compliment now days. If you like to reads something amusingly stupid about cryptocurrency or underlying technology, read MSM.

  11. Bittards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sadly, they are driving up the cost of high-end video cards...

    1. Re:Bittards by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      Sure. But if crypto-currencies collapse, you're gonna be up to your neck in cheap high-end video cards, right?

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    2. Re:Bittards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. But if crypto-currencies collapse, you're gonna be up to your neck in cheap high-end video cards, right?

      Video cards? Let me guess, you have no idea wtf you are talking about. Do you know what ASIC is?

  12. I agree with the pundits by Hrrrg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The valuation of bitcoin surged on the assumption that it will become a major currency. However, it's hard to see how bitcoin is going to be good for much of anything. Transactions are too expensive and too slow for it to become a regular currency. Early on, people believed it was an anonymous form of payment - but in fact every transaction is public. It was also supposed to be a democratic currency, but that promise has failed as well because now a few big players hold most of the bitcoins. By all reports, it wastes a tremendous amount of electricity and contributes to global warming.

    To quote one economist, "It's not a currency until people are paid with it." I don't see it ever getting there, especially with governments against it. And if it isn't destined to become a currency, then it it is destined to crash, maybe even disappear.

    1. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are tons of alts that would be a fantastic currency. Fast with incredibly small fees.

      The problem is the whole market is tied to Bitcoin as your ignorance has proven. Few know about the other coins.

    2. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you need to learn to read before calling people ignorant. He was talking about Bitcoin, not the "other coins".

    3. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The problem is the whole market is tied to Bitcoin as your ignorance has proven. Few know about the other coins.

      I know about BitConnect. I think a lot people know about that now.

    4. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The valuation of bitcoin surged on the assumption that it will become a major currency" This is entirely false. The valuation of bitcoin surged on the assumption that there would be a surge. And indeed, there was - the assumption was correct. That is all.

    5. Re:I agree with the pundits by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 0

      There are actually plenty of jobs that are payed with crypto currencies.
      I was on a web site with job listings a few weeks ago ... but did not bookmark it. I guess you find it easy to google.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lightning network, exchange addresses holds most of the bitcoins not individuals, proof of capacity.

    7. Re: I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you chose to prove your point by not providing a link that is both easily googled and in your browsing history.

      These are the people behind the price surge of bitcoin, people. Keep that in mind.

    8. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show me "plenty". I'm sure you can find one or two, but you said plenty, I want to see it. Personally I'd not accept them as payment as my bank doesn't accept them to pay my mortgage, nor do the utility companies accept them to pay for my water/gas/electricity. My grocery store doesn't accept them either. With being paid in cryptocurrencies I'd be homeless, in the dark, cold, thirsty and hungry. So if I were to be paid with them, I'd have no choice but to trade them for dollars. And with their instability, I can't know how much I'd be able to get for them. As such, I'd prefer to avoid the middle man, simply pay me in dollars. We agree on a price, I've got a good idea what they'll be worth in a months time and so long as I'm happy with the proposed price, we can just get on with things.

    9. Re:I agree with the pundits by djrosen · · Score: 1
    10. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone who signs up for that "service" is also signing up for the charlatan smorgasbord. Enjoy your phone calls from Nigerian princes.

    11. Re:I agree with the pundits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > "It's not a currency until people are paid with it."

      People *are* definitely being paid with it.

      It is just that the people using it to pay people are rogue governments and large criminal enterprises.

      Economist tend to assume that their data is the entire story. Black markets are opaque by their nature.

      Investing in BTC is investing not in the value of BTC, but in the value of an untraceable currency to illegal markets and funds.

    12. Re:I agree with the pundits by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      lol

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    13. Re:I agree with the pundits by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      I take it you haven't been paid with it yet? Man, you need to get out more. They've even bought Papa John's pizza with bitcoin. Famous example done years ago.

      Do your homework. You're a babe in the woods if you don't realize it. No, I really mean it. If you don't know what a wallet is, how to secure it, exchanges, which ones to get on and such, you're like a babe with say $1000 or whatever you have walking downtown in NYC flashing it around. You won't have it long unless you learn how to handle your money. Get etherium, the fees are lower than bitcoin and it seems to be just as good. Myetherwallet, get the hardware wallet or at the very least use it locally. Buy yourself a usb stick if you're not getting a hardware wallet and store it there. Make sure you disconnect it from your machine. Follow what they say. Good luck. Guard it like you would guard say 1 million or 10 million in gold. People will want to take it away from you. Never get lazy. Be as good with removing the hardware wallet or your usb as you are zipping up your pants. Always do it.

  13. problem of trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The thing is, are these people actually giving their opinion or are they trying to sway bitcoin away because it is not in their best interest?

    I certainly cannot trust any of these people, they have shown themselves repeatedly to by amoral liars and even criminals.

    Take their opinion with a very gracious pinch of salt

  14. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any tech created by the alt coins can always be adopted by Bitcoin. As we see happening now.

  15. If your that worried, play around with litecoin. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Even on the small drops and increases, a person can make 50 bucks here and there. If your out $1000 it isnt the end of the world and watching the numbers and trying to make that 50 is a lot of fun.

  16. One small problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "When something goes parabolic like this has, it typically ends up to where that parabola began."

    Except the housing market. House prices will never drop, and there is absolutely nothing wrong about that.

    1. Re:One small problem... by jonesy16 · · Score: 1

      You know, except for 2007-2010, during the financial crisis, when home values plunged about 30%.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    2. Re:One small problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except... you're wrong. Housing prices drop as in any other bubble. As a matter of fact, just search "housing bubble" to inform yourself on the matter since you didn't when commenting.

      As an example, the US housing bubble in 2000's, where housing prices reached it's peak in 2006 before bursting and made prices reached new lows from 2007 to 2012 consistently. And the rest you know, it led to what we know as "subprime mortgage crisis".

    3. Re:One small problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except the housing market. House prices will never drop, and there is absolutely nothing wrong about that.

      National Association of Realtors advertising BS aside - housing actually tracks wage growth pretty closely. It doesn't actually appreciate in value, just price. It's an inflation hedge.

      Another poster noted the drop a few years ago - note that housing payments stayed pretty close to constant. The amount individuals could pay each month for their mortgage stayed the same, but since interest rates increased, the price of property had to drop to keep payments constant. When interest rates went back down, the 'prices' recovered.

      Noting we're around 0% interest rates, and they were around 15% a few decades ago... are you sure you believe the 'prices' won't drop? Feel free to do the math on your own.

      You can also confirm the wage growth/inflation correlation by pulling ~200 years of U.S. gdp and housing index data.

      And, finally, don't believe anything the NAR says. Their entire transactional business is built around convincing you that you should buy/upgrade your house as often as possible. They're not unbiased economists, they're salesmen.

  17. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any tech created by the alt coins can always be adopted by Bitcoin. As we see happening now.

    Except when inertia, politics and greed stop it from happening. You think those folks with the huge ASIC mining farms are going to support switching to a GPU friendly algorithm?

  18. Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1. If the total supply of bitcoin remained the same the price would increase because fiat is inflationary. Although the amount of bitcoin in circulation increases over time the total supply decreases as wallets are lost.
    2. The utility of bitcoin increases every time someone new obtains some and every time a business agrees to accept it as payment - 2017 saw an explosion in both of these. The utility of bitcoin will increase farther with improvements to the underlying technology - ie. lightning network.
    3. Anyone who looks at the US Debt Clock should realize pretty quickly that fiat isn't something to hold long term - there's nothing more liquid than cryptocurrency.

    Bright future ahead, boys - the average man will understand soon enough.

    1. Re:Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      1. If the total supply of bitcoin remained the same the price would increase because fiat is inflationary.

      Which is exactly why fiat currency is far superior to bitcoin.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    2. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gotta be fucking kidding, right?
      So you're saying fiat is better because it loses value? People saving fiat losing value over time? How does this incentives a healthy economy? You know, where people 'economize'? Hit: it doesn't
      On the other hand, a deflationary currency does exactly that, encouraging people to save more and not spend their money on useless shit.

    3. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      Fiat currency guarantees that everyone has access to fiat currency. My understanding is that bitcoin is limited, there is only so much to go around. The more people there are, the more money that is needed. Bitcoin does not address that dire need.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    4. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If currency doesn't maintain or slightly lose value (and a low rate) then it no longer is a viable currency as if it grows it encourages hoarding which has a spiralling negative effect on the economy. Crypto Coins already have this problems as people are buying them as investments to hold rather than currencies to use.

    5. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fiat currency guarantees that everyone has access to fiat currency. My understanding is that bitcoin is limited, there is only so much to go around. The more people there are, the more money that is needed. Bitcoin does not address that dire need.

      Actually, no. If everyone can get as much as they want, it's value will be 0.
      Take a look at 100 inflation chart. You be amazed how much value USD, for example has lost. Idiotic models requiring perpetual spending (wasting, buy crap you don't need) to show economic growth have to go.

    6. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      How healthy do you think an economy would be if people did not spend money? I swear, taxes should be on wealth, not income. Money trading hands is what keeps everything rolling.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    7. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Deflationary currency is terrible for an economy. Money (cash) isn't meant to be an investment vehicle. It is meant to be spent.

      You can disagree all you want but thankfully more intelligent people are in charge.

    8. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be pretty damn healthy.
      People would spend they're money only on good, reliable, quality goods.
      They wouldn't be incentivized to spend they're money on useless shit, contributing to the environment polution and mindless resource utilization. We live on a finite planet and we need to learn how to be good with the environment and the resources we have.
      The current model is deeply broken, requiring people consuming increasingly higher qualities of goods, in order to keep the economy 'growing'.
      Guess what, you can't have infinite growth on a finite planet, with finite resources. Any God damn fool knows that.. but we refuse to acknowledge it.

    9. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see that as a problem, but rather as a feature. It encourages people to spend only what they really need to spend, and save more. It makes them think twice before they upgrade that useless iPhone, before they buy all those useless gadgets which they use once they they throw to the garbage.
      A deflationary currency is a MUST for keeping a healthy economy.

    10. Re: Horse breeders warn against Automobiles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get it that you just started your first year in college and you've been "enlightened", but do yourself a favor and read up on the flaws of the gold standard. You see, what bitcoin is and what you're proposing has been done before (see gold standard mentioned previously). It's not some "new" idea that the hip kids who are so clever thought up that was just never thought of before. It was the norm for human history up until about 60 or 70 years ago. It didn't work out. Basically as soon as technology moved to a point where true fiat currencies could be viable, the entire world moved to them. They're a thing that comes with great responsibility. You have to be careful with them and control their availability closely as to not cause hyper inflation. But they've generally been far more successful than the gold standard ever was.

      And I speak as somebody who moving to deflationary currency would be very beneficial to. I'm a saver as it is. A deflationary currency would make me very, very rich. It would make the ultra wealthy even more impossibly wealthy. And as somebody who would benefit from it financially, I think it's a terrible idea. It would be a blood bath for most people and my head might very well end up on a chopping block. And I mean that in the literal sense, not the figurative sense. Desperate people do desperate things.

  19. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't really matter what ASIC mining farms want if the POW algo is changed....

  20. Bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Bitcoin was never a serious contender for replacing the dollar. What we need is a cryptocurrency that can maintain a very large volume of transactions. There's a problem with the size of the blockchain. We need the blockchain to maintain trust, but it quickly becomes a serious impediment to new comers. Further, we need a way to reward processors of transactions even after the currency becomes stable and there's no need for new coins.

    1. Re: Bitcoin by denis.goddard · · Score: 1

      Ripple scales orders of magnitude better than Bitcoin. Txns take under 5 seconds and fees are less than a penny

  21. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I feel their investors would be upset if crypto tanks 90% next month and they are told "don't worry, in the long run it always goes UP".

  22. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by antifoidulus · · Score: 2

    Can you create an algorithm that is sufficiently hard so that coins don't flood the market but sufficiently energy efficient that we don't roast ourselves to death from greenhouse gasses mining computer money? I am opposed to crypto from a purely environmental standpoint, I think there are better things humanity could be spending its limited resources on than a bunch of calculations that prove you did a bunch of calculations.

  23. Only a very short term risk. Accepting like Paypal by raymorris · · Score: 1

    He's not pricing tickets in BTC, or holding BTC. He's accepting it as a payment METHOD just like Paypal or Visa; it's converted to dollars either shortly after he gets it, or before he even gets it, allowing the payment provider to take the risk of a drop in the hours it takes to convert it.

  24. Bitcoin is now useless as a currency by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

    Bitcoin's high-cost high-latency transactions make it a lot less useful as a currency than everyone hopes. Without some sort of centralized credit agency backing it to amortize those transactions, it'll never be able to take off for e.g. buying a cup of coffee.

    It seems obvious the bubble will burst and I'd question how many more bubbles it'll be able to recover from without major changes.

    1. Re:Bitcoin is now useless as a currency by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      Lightning Network is spinning up as we speak, with near zero transaction costs, and without need for trust in centralized parties.

    2. Re:Bitcoin is now useless as a currency by mentil · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As much as I'd love Lightning to be a panacea, I don't see how it'll work out. It's too easy to anonymously bring your competitors to financial ruin by challenging the off-blockchain ledger, forcing the ledger to be posted to blockchain, costing your competitor a huge transaction fee every time you do this. Now, say you have a bot challenging the ledger every 5 seconds, or 5 milliseconds; those savings become a huge liability very fast. This just brings us back to the real problem: posting to blockchain is way too expensive. If Lightning fails to work as advertised, Bitcoin will be out of magic bullets.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  25. Re:If your that worried, play around with litecoin by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    If your out $1000 it isnt the end of the world and watching the numbers and trying to make that 50 is a lot of fun.

    Dunno about you all, but I'm guessing this contribution comes to us from a teenager with rich parents.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  26. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    anyone that believes that bullshit deserves to lose everything they have

  27. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    plenty of people cleaning toilets who believed that about the stock market and the housing market and the tulip market and just about any other market you care to name. nothing only goes up, especially when you have to take into account opportunity cost, ROI etc.

  28. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It actually does. The Bitcoin network (and all secure distributed networks) depend upon consensus, whomever controls 51% of the mining effort controls the transactions and in turn dictates how things happen. The bigger issue is the politics-heavy update side of the actual protocols which don't change the minting process at all. The new lightning network they've been trying to roll out has some pretty serious security flaws nobody seems to be discussing but to say they don't want to use it (since a hint of insecurity could itself spoil the fun, especially when it's already been technically implemented and it's just that nobody is using it.)

  29. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You assume that no solution will come about to this problem. There is a cost to innovation. In order to get there you have to start from somewhere and that starting point may not be as clean and efficient as whats coming. That doesn't mean the cost ultimately isn't worth it. Bitcoin didn't start off anonymous. It started off with users in control. That has pseudo anonymous properties. Ultimately people didn't understand it wasn't anonymous and then started acting like everything is a lie. No, you just didn't understand it. Today we have genuinely anonymous crypto currencies coming into existence. Zen Cash and ZCash are primarily what I'd call truly anonymous. The others are more or less just making it difficult to untangle. As time moves on we'll see the problem of scaling solved. That might be phase 3. Right now we are in phase 2. Maybe phase 4 will by a solution to the environmental. Ultimately removing government and third parties from controlling our transactions is a huge advancement that will have significant positive ramifications for all of society. It's hard for many to understand why this is so important. However I can explain why Bitcoin and whats followed alone has serious value. All current digital payment methods like credit cards, wire transfers, PayPal, etc have significant financial costs to them. Everything you buy with a credit card or other digital payment option increases the prices by 3%+. I'm not even going to pretend to know what government created physical currencies result in added costs to goods. Undoubtedly if we eliminated manufacturing physical currencies and replaced it with a cheap digital solution prices would fall by far more than 3%. We might see a 10% reduction in prices indirectly because now the tax payer isn't paying for the creation and maintenance of a currency that everything is based on.

  30. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... "You may think that the cryptocurrency boom has already peaked. You may think you’re too late. But consider this

    I recently came back from a blockchain conference in New York. One of the most remarkable comments made was that the “big money” (hedge funds and large money managers) isn’t really in the cryptocurrency market yet.

    The total cryptocurrency market sits at around $500 billion. But the institutional funds need the market to hit $1 trillion before they can start investing heavily. And when that happens most likely sometime this year the crypto market will really take off.

    And the institutional money will first put their dollars to work in the cryptocurrencies that have the largest market capitalizations. That means investors should be looking closely at bitcoin, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, and Bitcoin Cash, to start.

    There will certainly be some pullbacks and high volatility along the way, like we’re seeing today. But I’m here to tell you now’s the time to get in."

  31. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Can you create an algorithm that is sufficiently hard so that coins don't flood the market but sufficiently energy efficient that we don't roast ourselves to death from greenhouse gasses mining computer money? I am opposed to crypto from a purely environmental standpoint, I think there are better things humanity could be spending its limited resources on than a bunch of calculations that prove you did a bunch of calculations.

    It's already here and has been around for years. Take a look at Peercoin

  32. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by vtcodger · · Score: 1

    FWIW, tulip bulbs -- which have some utility -- seem to be selling for about $200 USD per bushel. There are a LOT of tulip bulbs in a bushel (35 liters). AFAICS, Bitcoin has less utility than tulips and you can probably put millions of Bitcoin into a bushel basket. On that basis, I expect the post mania price of Bitcoin to be pretty low.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  33. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

    People keep saying blockchain is the future... and I just don't get it. It's a way of preventing forking, so great to prevent double-spending. But, and maybe this is me being dense, absent (a) a lack of a central authority and (b) a need to have one and only one block of data being definitive, I don't understand why we care. Transacting in currency/preventing double spending seems to suffer from (b) but not (a), and almost everything else seems to be immune to (b), and probably (a) as well.

    I figure if I keep asking, someone will give me the right metaphor, and I can finally grok why blockchain.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
  34. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Gavin+Rogers · · Score: 1

    I was agreeing with you there until you got to Ethereum classic - which is a (probably) dead project run by refusniks of the DAO hard fork.

  35. Re:Only a very short term risk. Accepting like Pay by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    With a real currency you could buy options to buy or sell in the future, eliminating the risk (or, more precisely, shifting it onto someone else who will get paid by you for taking your risk).

    Does something like that exist for Bitcoins?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  36. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Apparently they either don't think so, or they think that it hasn't reached its low before the eventual rise again.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  37. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

    Creating and maintaining a currency is actually a profit center for most governments.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
  38. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    The only problem I could see here is that the market itself will only grow based on the currency itself. There is no value added aside of the speculation that the value will rise.

    That's not sustainable.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  39. Re: If your that worried, play around with litecoi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I don't know where you buy and sell your coins, but in most places the fees will make the small pump and drop useless to try to trade them, because what you could possibly earn will be less than the fees...

  40. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only because it deprives the users is it a profit center for government. When that profit is eliminated the user gains.

  41. Believe ? by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...Dallas Mavericks will accept bitcoin and Ethereum as a method to pay for tickets starting next season. Even if the tech investor doesn't fully believe in cryptocurrency, he's clearly willing to try to profit off it..."

    He doesn't have to hold the currency longer than a few seconds.  So, he doesn't have to "believe in it" at all.

    1. Re:Believe ? by cmseagle · · Score: 1

      He doesn't have to hold the currency longer than a few seconds.

      More likely, there's a cryptocoin-processing middleman who is guaranteeing that Cuban will get a certain amount in USD for a transaction, and he doesn't have to hold the coins at all.

  42. Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is called cash...

  43. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by roca · · Score: 1

    Bitcoin's proof-of-work is not the only way to implement a blockchain. Real-life applications don't want PoW (and it's an environmental disaster), but you can do interesting blockchain things without it using known identities.

  44. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I recently came back from a blockchain conference in New York.

    Shocking that a blockchain conference would fully tout the "advantages" of cryptocurrency. Truly shocking.

  45. Sounds like someone is grumpy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Missed the bandwaggon, eh Petey?

  46. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pure FUD on your part. They lose everything by crypto's success. There's been no bigger threat to the traditional banking in history than cryptocurrencies. The importance of traditional bankers if inversely proportional to the success of cryptos.

  47. It’s irresponsible not to caution against it by inking · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The crypto space—regardless of what happens to it in the long term—is brim full of intentional Ponzi schemes and pump and dump operations on a scale that would otherwise be difficult to access elsewhere. Operations like Bitconnect collect over a billion dollars from poor sods that don’t know any better and just vanish into the night. Goodbye decades of savings. While far from impossible, it would be very difficult for an illiterate investor to destroy his capital this quickly with the exchange traded instruments.

  48. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you can never lose with real estate. /sarcasm

  49. Profiting off Bitcoin? by kenh · · Score: 2

    Showing just have far Cuban has come on bitcoin and cryptocurrency, he announced earlier this week that his Dallas Mavericks will accept bitcoin and Ethereum as a method to pay for tickets starting next season. Even if the tech investor doesn't fully believe in cryptocurrency, he's clearly willing to try to profit off it...

    Many/most retailers that previously accepted Bitcoin have walked away from the cryptocurrency because the valuation is too erratic - there is a fair to better chance any bitcoins accepted today as payment for goods and services will go down in value before the retailer can convert them to US currency tomorrow, costing retailers rather than profiting them. .

    --
    Ken
  50. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The network effect is easy, first, you can't accept 100 coins (not practical) and second, BTC is listed as a pair for almost all other crypto tokens and coins. There are better designed bills but sorry, I will keep my dollars anyway.

  51. Re: Only a very short term risk. Accepting like Pa by peragrin · · Score: 1

    That's just it. You can't always convert it right away. The transaction fees means you only want to do conversions when you have $2000 or so to convert otherwise a business is losing money.
    Remember there are two fees for a business to deal with in accepting Bitcoin. The first transaction fee which gets covered by the payer most of the time. The second is converting it back to cash. With high fees and long transaction times . The day in and day voltiity is much much to high.

    You want to keep your feed at 1 to 2%

    That is how you maximize revenue. Bit in is too unstable to use as a transaction medium. The majority of current trading is speculator's looking for a quick buck.

    Going around and saying you should invest, instead of gamble is meaningless.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  52. NFW! It looks like a scam. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wouldn't go anywhere near that! They make all these claims, but what is my recourse if they are full of shit? Sue? Who? Where? And it'll probably cost more to hunt them down - if I could - than it's worth.

  53. Gold plated bullets, dual use by aod7br7932 · · Score: 1

    Invest in Gold plated bullets, dual use, for when Global Markets crash

  54. Russian Bank adds 223 tons of gold in 2017! by DigiShaman · · Score: 0

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news...

    Yeah. Gold is "like a religion" they say. Hah!

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  55. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by bondsbw · · Score: 1

    The Bitcoin network (and all secure distributed networks) depend upon consensus, whomever controls 51% of the mining effort controls the transactions and in turn dictates how things happen.

    I would still think they would consider POS or a lower-cost mining algorithm. They likely already have a large stake, and more efficient mining = less cost of electricity = more profit per coin mined.

    --
    All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  56. Re: Only a very short term risk. Accepting like Pa by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

    One can do things like the Lightning Network, but I would probably say that another cryptocurrency may be better for making transactions, if only due to the overhead of the Bitcoin blockchain, having to pay a "tip" so your transactions are processed reasonably, and the fact that Bitcoin's value is being hit hard by speculators.

    What would be ideal would be a currency that has less overhead, perhaps a way of obscuring of who did what in its blockchain for privacy's sake. That way, if someone bought an item today, 20-30 years from now, they wouldn't having to defend themselves for that purpose, especially if statute of limitations laws get repealed.

    Let Bitcoin be where people play with the tulips, while "real work" (i.e. payments and exchanges) get done in another currency that is more stable.

  57. Metal plate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have any amount (and many do) of offline Satoshi the best technique is to punch your key / words into a metal plate.

    This will be good for as long as the gold. Or hell, punch it into gold.

    1. Re:Metal plate by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Or hell, punch it into gold.

      Double the action. It'd be like the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup of value.

  58. Re: Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cryptocurrency may be here to stay but not Bitcoin. Btc is an interesting first academic quality effort from which we have already learned so much about how NOT to design a cryptocurrency.

    The coiner types always so sound cultishly desperate when talking about Bitcoin's value and future.

    Do not fall in love with your investments and speculations. Keep a cool and rational head on your shoulders or you'll be the one losing everything to someone more mercenary than you.

  59. DIY Cryptocurrency Mining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to get in on the cryptocurrency mining scene, you need a good motherboard that allows for multiple GPUs: ASRock H110 Pro BTC+, ASUS B250, Biostar TB350-BTC, and GIGABYTE GA-H110-D3A.

  60. Bitcoin is for people who can't do math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sad thing about bitcoin is there's too many programmers that see a shiny coin and then don't realize that coin in on the Titanic. The electricity required to mine bitcoin is fucking stupid and you'll probably never break even. Ignoring the huge ecological and economic impact of wasting so much electricity on mining bitcoins, it's a den of illegal activity and money laundering. Then there's all these people claiming to be "cryptocurrency experts". Well go fuck yourself. The world doesn't need another form of currency. What the world needs is more wisdom, intelligence, understanding and compassion. There are several articles that point out at the current rate, mining bitcoins will need all the electricity generated in the US in like 2025. How the fuck does that make any sense to a programmer? What fucking drug are you taking and please stop it!

  61. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by dj245 · · Score: 1

    That said, don't conflate blockchain and bitcoin. Blockchain technology is likely to be part of our future. Bitcoin is just one user of blockchain technology, it may or may not be part of our future. "Not" is a serious possibility given that bitcoin has deviated from its design and its assumptions about its blockchain security are no longer valid. Its security required a global distributed community of miners who are regular individuals using their own computers and this has not been true for years. Bitcoin is plausibly vulnerable to mining cartels and government intervention due to the current state of affairs where we have a relatively small number of miners using expensive specialized ASIC hardware that is geographically located in a single country and reliant upon inexpensive government supplied electricity. Are cartels or the government likely to subvert the bitcoin blockchain? Probably not, but it remains plausible, and bitcoin security is based on the assumption that such things are not even remotely plausible. Bitcoin is entirely replaceable by a another coin with better security, new features and/or better performance. Before anyone makes a "network effect" argument, keep in mind that a network effect needs high switching costs to be effective. There is little to no switching cost to move from bitcoin to a different coin.

    Why will blockchain be a part of the future? The future is very difficult to predict with regards to technology. Blockchain is essentially a football stadium filled with accountants keeping ledger books. Someone goes up to a microphone and announces a transaction, everyone records the transaction in the ledger (if the transaction checks out). And everyone's ledger book essentially must hold all the transactions which have ever happened.

    This is far too much redundancy for most applications, and the data starts to get unmanageable after a relatively short number of transactions (compared to current systems). It's as if everyone had a Usenet server and stored all the posts back to the start of Usenet. For a distributed system where nobody trusts each other, maybe it is a useful (but inefficient) solution. But we live in a world where companies and financial institutions have credit ratings & escrow accounts. Normal databases are very good at tracking packages, money, inventory, and other things that need to be tracked. Blockchain doesn't seem to bring any value to most systems already in place.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  62. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

    The number of bitcoins issues weekly are fixed for that week, regardless of how many miners there are or how much power is in the system. The hardware costs they incur are from competing with eachother.

  63. Re: Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from De by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually can someone much wiser than me quickly guesstimate how much it would cost to own 51% of Bitcoin mining, and, is the cost less than it would be worth to hijack all the current coins? Could it eventually be a no brainer to attempt such an attack? ie: spend millions to make billions?

  64. Perhaps but... by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    They may be sane and indeed correct but I have trouble trusting financial advice from someone who does not know the difference between a parabola or an exponential. I expect the problem comes from the habitual use of too much hyperbola.

  65. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure the people who traded property deeds for single bulbs are very impressed by your reminder that their post-crash bulbs would "still have utility value"

    Don't be pedantic about "crashed to nothing". Trading a post-pop bulb for a chicken egg means fuckall, bringing up "utility" is relevant to fuckall. Crypto will bubble/pop with or without utility.

  66. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by lexman098 · · Score: 1

    Do we even need to? Cryptocurrency has proven itself pretty useless when it comes to both storing wealth and making day to day transactions.

  67. Multisignature by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

    because wallets can be lost/stolen/hacked.

    That's why they created multisignature. You need cooperation between multiple people to perform an transaction.

    You can also make a paper wallet, cut it into pieces and give each piece to a different person.

  68. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

    I've seen some "proof of burn" ideas ,but I'm not sure how else to replace PoW. Any other papers you can show me. Also, what can I do on a blockchain I cannot do without one, other than preventing double spending without a central authority?

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
  69. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's arguable that those coins already exist but for whatever reason (first mover advantage, niche exchanges) the masses haven't caught on. I'm on board with the semi-centralized (currently) in Stellar/Ripple, with a strong interest in RaiBlocks once they get onto more exchanges and Cardano has me a little excited on the purely speculation front (let's see if they can deliver). Anyway, I've often echoed your sentiments: The future may be cryptocurrency, but bitcoin will not be it.

  70. This is all a game and you're all stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL, you're all idiots. People are profiting on this beyond your imagination. You're puppets.

    1. Re:This is all a game and you're all stupid by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      You sound like so many poor people I know. Unwilling to take a chance and that's fine. Don't get upset when I make a million or so because I took a chance. Also, don't try to steal my money because you don't have any later. Choice is yours to make. Live with it.

  71. Re:Only a very short term risk. Accepting like Pay by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

    With a real currency you could buy options to buy or sell in the future...Does something like that exist for Bitcoins?

    Yup.

  72. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ripple (XRP) works like this in that it's (currently) a centralized ledger. All coins are pre-mined and most nodes are owned by Ripple, Inc but with plans to retire their nodes as independent nodes come online. This allows super fast transaction throughput (thousands per second vs. bitcoins.. uh.. we'll get around to it eventually) and stupid low transaction fees. Such is the price of rejecting purity over practicality. Someone tossed around several billion XRP the other day with a whopping fee of less than a penny. And it happened in seconds. This, to me, shows great promise of what crypto can be if you get past all the idiot crypto anarchists/liberbittards. Banks like to make money. If XRP makes them money, then that's where I want to be.

    Stellar (XLM), by contrast, is designed very similarly to XRP with similar transaction speeds and costs and is trying to position itself as an everyday currency for the masses. Also semi-decentralized, but more "democratic" for whatever that's worth.

    Disclaimer: I HODL both and am greatly hopeful that if crypto is going to go legit vs. the current pump and dump scamcoin, it'll be similar to one of these. XRB is still tied up on some really fucking dodgy exchanges, ADA is still in development (although I like what they're trying to do, so I have some, as well).

    Now we just need a 3rd gen privacy coin that offers fast transactions and low fees.

  73. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They AREN'T traditional banking retard, they are investment firms. learn the fucking difference.

  74. Re:Idiots - BeauHD is Fudgepacker ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's time for you to buy some futures, then.

  75. Tulips are free.. by h8sg8s · · Score: 1

    ..and, after the BC bubble is over, so will Bitcoin be.

    --
    Organization? You must be joking..
  76. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by perpenso · · Score: 1

    People keep saying blockchain is the future... and I just don't get it. It's a way of preventing forking, so great to prevent double-spending. But, and maybe this is me being dense, absent (a) a lack of a central authority and (b) a need to have one and only one block of data being definitive, I don't understand why we care. Transacting in currency/preventing double spending seems to suffer from (b) but not (a), and almost everything else seems to be immune to (b), and probably (a) as well. I figure if I keep asking, someone will give me the right metaphor, and I can finally grok why blockchain.

    A lack of central authority means redundancy of data, avoiding a single point of failure. To borrow from Torvalds who had borrowed form someone earlier: Don't backup data, upload their important data to the internet and let the rest of the world mirror it. It also allows peer-to-peer transactions, middlemen not necessarily necessary.
    One definitive block defining ownership of a thing, its not just about coins, its about anything that can be owned. Note that one definitive block avoids the problem of different databases of different authorities/agencies being out of sync. And the problem of being able to access the authority/agency's data, data loss, denial of service, etc.
    So blockchains allow owned things to be be transfered from one owner to the next, without middlemen, with the current owner always defined and discoverable.

  77. Re: Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from De by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually can someone much wiser than me quickly guesstimate how much it would cost to own 51% of Bitcoin mining, and, is the cost less than it would be worth to hijack all the current coins? Could it eventually be a no brainer to attempt such an attack? ie: spend millions to make billions?

    I guess costs would be sending armed police and technicians to the mining farms. 70% of the mining hashrate is physically located in China.

    Also the big farms and collocation facilities are owned by a small number of people. Many private individuals in the US and EU collocate in these same facilities. They buy from the manufacture and have it delivered to the mining collocation facility. They get to configure their miner from the US/EU but they do not have physical access or control. If the ASIC manufacturers and mining farms create a cartel and reconfigure all the miners no one other than the Chinese government could do much about it. What's the cost of a cartel, dinner and drinks for the players? Whatever it costs to pressure the farms, assuming they don't already own the farms.

  78. Re:Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from Des by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bitcoin has not caught on with the masses yet either. :-)

  79. Re: Its dangerous: Speculators + Deviation from De by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

    The Bitcoin mining network consumes something like 1.8 GW of electricity on average, so enough computers to fully load a ~901MW power plant. At scale you're likely looking at about $1.25 per W so about 1.1 billion dollars worth of hardware dedicated to the task. The big issue is that there aren't actually that many people in the 51%, one guy in Russia actually has a coal fired power plant dedicated to nothing but his mining operations.

  80. OPEC sells Oil by NewYork · · Score: 1

    I'll not invest in BTC till OPEC sells Oil in it