The Mystery of the Cars Abandoned in a Robot Car Park (bbc.com)

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The Mystery of the Cars Abandoned in a Robot Car Park (bbc.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @05:25AM from the mystery-solved dept.

The mystery of why a handful of cars were abandoned in a derelict car park in Edinburgh, Capital of Scotland, may have been solved. From a report on BBC: The $7m Autosafe SkyPark used robots to stack cars and was dubbed the "car park of the future" -- but went into receivership in 2003. After lying empty for more than a decade, the building in Morrison Street is now being demolished. And the work has uncovered eight cars which were left behind when the doors were closed. Images of the abandoned vehicles has sparked a number of theories about why they were never removed. But a former employee has said they could be old vehicles which were bought by the car park's former operators to test out the robot equipment. A spokesperson said: "We can confirm that there are eight cars present at the car park on the Capital Square site, which have been there since the car park closed in 2003. The owners of the cars are unknown and they are now the property of the demolition company who will remove the cars once work begins on the levels on which they are located."

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Exaplains the bankruptcy by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:29 · Score: 1

If they left 8 test vehicles in the system, that was 8 spots they were not using for revenue. Speaks to the financial brains of the company running the car park being not so bright.
1. Re:Exaplains the bankruptcy by bobbied · 2018-01-23 06:33 · Score: 2
  
  I'm guessing that had they needed any of those 8 spaces, they would quickly have removed the test cars.
  It seems likely that this business failed because not enough people parked their cars there at a profitable price point, not that they lacked sufficient capacity because 8 spaces where unavailable...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
2. Re:Exaplains the bankruptcy by Darinbob · 2018-01-23 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  It failed because it was expensive to operate and maintain.
3. Re: Exaplains the bankruptcy by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  If u have 8 test cars and own a carpark where else would u keepem?
4. Re: Exaplains the bankruptcy by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  Well that's funny. Elevator parking garages is all they have room for in Japan. It must work. You just need to be able to do math I guess.
5. Re:Exaplains the bankruptcy by nojayuk · 2018-01-23 10:39 · Score: 1
  
  I drove past the demolition site today. The car park was located behind the EICC, a conference centre which is how I expect it was supposed to get much of its business but most conference attendees would arrive by train (one station about 500 metres from the convention centre, the other station a bit over a kilometre away) or by bus or taxi from the airport rather than driving into the city centre. It wasn't ideally situated for shopping or business commuting either.
  I didn't even know it was there to be truthful even when it was open for business back in 2002.
6. Re:Exaplains the bankruptcy by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-24 15:14 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, so the customer would think that the carpark was not entirely empty. It's basic business tactic.
Solved? by houghi · 2018-01-23 05:30 · Score: 1

You use that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
1. Re:Solved? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:40 · Score: 0
  
  Dead nazis.
2. Re:Solved? by Oswald+McWeany · 2018-01-23 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  You use that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.
  If they really want to find the owners they would dredge the base of the River Forth. We all know that this is a case of the Scottish Mafia at work.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
3. Re:Solved? by sgtsquid · 2018-01-23 07:03 · Score: 1
  
  The best part about the Scottish mafia is that they don't need to worry about anyone ratting them out. If someone tries to squeal, nobody could understand WTF they're saying!
Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Dahan · 2018-01-23 05:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

Do they not have title records for cars in the UK? It seems like it'd be a trivial exercise to look up the license plate or the VIN to determine the owner of those cars.
1. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:42 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Bah, where's your sense of mystery and intrigue? The news media have a popular mandate to entertain us now, not merely to inform us.
2. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by whoever57 · 2018-01-23 05:45 · Score: 2
  
  Cars in the UK don't have titles.
  But cars must be registered (with the DVLA).
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
3. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:45 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe, but imagine you're a journalist, paid for generating articles. Do you write a few hundred words of garbled bullshit about a "mystery", or do you do some research work, find out where the cars came from, and then no longer have anything to write about because what actually happened was very boring?
  As a general rule, if it's on www.bbc.com it's usually not worth reading.
4. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by whoever57 · 2018-01-23 05:49 · Score: 2
  
  A little more info here:
  https://www.askthe.police.uk/c...
  https://www.gov.uk/request-inf...
  Note: "registered keeper", not owner.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
5. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  So ... then ... if I steal a car in the UK it's mine because the owner can't prove otherwise?
  I'm sure I'm missing something, but that sounds really fucking broken.
  How the fuck do you establish ownership?
6. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:59 · Score: 0
  
  So I can come to any random street and claim I own all the cars there, and noone will be able to prove otherwise? Sweet! Gonna open me up a dealership!
7. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by TechyImmigrant · 2018-01-23 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  So ... then ... if I steal a car in the UK it's mine because the owner can't prove otherwise?
  I'm sure I'm missing something, but that sounds really fucking broken.
  How the fuck do you establish ownership?
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
8. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:16 · Score: 0
  
  You'd think that but I've tried to find the owner of a car that was abandoned about the same time and it's next to impossible. You literally have to dig into paper records to find the owners it seems because the state doesn't have any record of the car existing. The typical rule is that if a car isn't registered for about 7 years, they pull it off the books and at that point even finding the title can be next to impossible.
9. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Stonent1 · 2018-01-23 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  Makes it easier to just drive it across the border and re-register it with no proof of ownership.
10. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by PsychoSlashDot · 2018-01-23 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  So ... then ... if I steal a car in the UK it's mine because the owner can't prove otherwise?
  I'm sure I'm missing something, but that sounds really fucking broken.
  How the fuck do you establish ownership?
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  I don't bother because a bag of bagels doesn't cost half a year's wages... unlike a car.
  
  --
  "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
11. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by TechyImmigrant · 2018-01-23 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Of course they could prove otherwise. The registration has their name on it. The owners have the receipts for the purchase of the car in a box in the shed. It's insured in their name. It's been in their driveway for the past few years.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
12. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by freeze128 · 2018-01-23 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  If a bag of bagels cost the same as a new car, I'm sure the bag would be registered with the owner in some way. VIN numbers exist for a reason. Why not use them?
13. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  So ... then ... if I steal a car in the UK it's mine because the owner can't prove otherwise?
  I'm sure I'm missing something, but that sounds really fucking broken.
  How the fuck do you establish ownership?
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  Bagels don't have serial numbers on them. They also don't cost tens of thousands of .
14. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Holi · 2018-01-23 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  Dumbest argument ever.
  
  --
  Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
15. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by drew_kime · 2018-01-23 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  VIN numbers exist for a reason.
  The same reason we have PIN numbers for our ATM machines. To drive pedants insane.
  
  --
  Nope, no sig
16. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anubis+IV · 2018-01-23 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  If someone makes an analogy that in no way applies to the situation at hand, how do you respond?
17. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:37 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  The vehicle registration document tracks the registered keeper of the car, who is the person legally responsible for the vehicle, so the owner is not really that relevant. The registered keeper is legally responsible for any incidents or offences involving the car and so on and so forth. The only time ownership becomes relevant is when selling the vehicle, in which case you generally need to produce proof of purchase of the car, although I have sold a car with just a vehicle registration document (it was a very low value car however).
18. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:37 · Score: 0
  
  So I could sell a car and then go steal it back and authorities would be up shit creek as I have all the documentation for the cars original sale. (especially since I would have no record of selling it). All the new owner would have is some hand written receipt that I could claim is a forgery.
19. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by bobbied · 2018-01-23 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  So...The registration is legal proof of ownership? How do you handle leans when you borrow money to buy a car? So IF I head down to the government office that handles registrations, I can register YOUR car, buy insurance for it and after a couple of years just call it mine?
  In the USA the registration just proves you own the license plate and tells authorities what car it's attached to. It doesn't establish ownership of the car. Anybody can buy insurance on any car they like, just give them the VIN and pay the fees. But the person who's name is on the title owns the vehicle (with consideration for any leans which may be recorded on the title.)
  So these things establish ownership in your country? There are no Title records? Remind me not to own a car over there...
  I've got to say, that IF this really is the state of affairs over there, (and I seriously doubt it is, but have no way to prove otherwise) you guys are crazy.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
20. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Nidi62 · 2018-01-23 06:50 · Score: 2
  
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  If someone makes an analogy that in no way applies to the situation at hand, how do you respond?
  Ask for it in a car analogy. You must be new here.
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
21. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by bobbied · 2018-01-23 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  "next to impossible" means it's possible.
  It may not be worth the records search, but the state HAS the records and can find them if necessary.
  I purchased a vehicle for $65 that had been sitting in a field for 15 years once. Missouri didn't have a problem finding the title and transferring it to me and I know the vehicle hadn't been registered while it sat there (the inspection sticker and registration stickers where both15 years old.) We gave them the VIN and they found the title and given the seller was the owner, transferred the title to me. This was back in 1979 even..
  I so wish I had that car back... It was a 100% stock 55 Chevy, worth a small fortune today and I let it go for $250 in 81...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
22. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  Thanks for confirming what we already know ... that you're a moron.
  Unlike a bag of bagels, a car has the unique VIN affixed to a bunch of places, and in normal countries I'm the owner of record of the vehicle. Which means if the car is found abandoned, or on fire, or crashed through the window of a bank ... well, they'll look up and see my name and come ask me some questions.
  A car is an expensive asset, which is why the manufacturing process includes the ability to uniquely identify them and their major parts, and which most countries tie to a specific owner.
  So, no, your example of a bag of bagels is idiotic, and has no equivalence here. Bagels don't cost 10's of thousands of dollars or come with unique serial numbers across the parts to identify them and associate them to who owns them.
  If cars have been reduced to 'possession = ownership', then why the fuck wouldn't you steal cars? If there is no registered ownership, then steal all of the cars you want, and apparently no way to prove who owns what.
23. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2018-01-23 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  Cars in the UK don't have titles.
  Nonsense . . . my Morris Minor has an OBE.
  The guy who sold it to me told me it inherited the title from its father, the "Yo" man Beef Wellington Triumph TR4.
  If you look in the trunks, you'll find Jimmy Hoffa in one.
  
  --
  Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
24. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Chris+Mattern · 2018-01-23 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  How do you handle leans[sic] when you borrow money to buy a car?
  The title will state that the owner is the finance company, with you as the debtor in possession of the car. When you finish paying off the loan, the title will be re-issued in your name. I remember when I finished paying for my car and the bank sent me the title. The registration for the license plate will be in your name since it cares about who is in possession of the car, not who owns it.
25. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by 91degrees · 2018-01-23 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  There's no owner registration, as such, except for the V5 form that tracks the registered keeper. You need to have a copy of that and fill in your and the new user details when you sell it. You can't register it without the V5 document.
  
  In practice though, the registered keeper is typically the owner. If you contest ownership of a car, you'd need some pretty strong evidence.
26. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by boskone · 2018-01-23 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  No. in the US, the lienholder is formally recorded on the title until the debt is paid, then a new title is issued, by the state, after sign off from all parties, removing them and leaving just the owner on it.
27. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by bobbied · 2018-01-23 07:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, that's what I was trying to say: "But the person who's name is on the title owns the vehicle (with consideration for any leans which may be recorded on the title.)"
  The lean on the title says that the named entity has a lean on the asset and the owner isn't free to transfer title to another w/o consent from the lean holder. So I own the car, but I have to get the lean holder's permission (usually by paying off the loan) to transfer the title to somebody else.
  I was trying to ask how they deal with this in the UK because the post I was responding to was saying they don't have titles in the UK.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
28. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by mark-t · 2018-01-23 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  Uh... no.
  VIN's are (supposed to be) unique. Your PIN is (probably) not. Your PIN is supposed be kept private, while the VIN on your car is published. There is nothing distinctive about your PIN that differentiates you from anyone else, upon request, it merely offers verification of your identity. You must have, prior to this point, already made a claim to having a particular identity, so the PIN does not independently identify you. A VIN can be used entirely by itself to uniquely identify both a specific car and its last registered owner.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
29. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by bobbied · 2018-01-23 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  Ok. So that means the issue here is terminology.. A V5 "log book" is what we call a "Title" in the US. You call this a registration.
  In the USA the registration establishes the link between the vehicle and the license plate issued by the state you live in. You would call that an "entitlement" that tells the government which car has your plate.
  So, if you lose your "log book" you call the government to get another one, but you have to prove YOU are the current owner to do so. We have a similar process for Titles in the USA, although it's a bit more complex because each state/territory/district issues their own titles for vehicles owned within their borders and different requirements for issuing replacements or transferring titles.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
30. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 07:38 · Score: 0
  
  Registration just proves your plate registration is up to date, as well as the sticker that is usually on the plate. Registration is sometimes used interchangeably with the title for things like traffic stops.
  Titles do exist in the US as well, though they are usually kept electronically at the DMV of the state your car is registered. You can usually get a true paper copy of the title for a fee. Most people don't need it unless you are planning to sell the car yourself to a 3rd party.
  In the case of an outstanding loan on the car, the title will list all interested lien holding parties along with the owner of the car.
  I myself did not bother with getting a paper title for my car until it was free and clear paid off. Then paid the state to get a copy of the title showing no other interested parties on my car.
  The real true title to your car, the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin is always kept with the state, you will never get a real copy of that as long as your car is registered in the state. The only time you might get your hands on that MCO is if you are transferring your car from one state to another, though those days they are probably transferred electronically from state to state.
  Your best bet on getting a copy of the MCO is requesting it from the dealer when you buy your car new before they send if off to the state, because it will never be seen again.
31. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by cascadingstylesheet · 2018-01-23 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  So ... then ... if I steal a car in the UK it's mine because the owner can't prove otherwise?
  I'm sure I'm missing something, but that sounds really fucking broken.
  How the fuck do you establish ownership?
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  It seems unlikely there could such a huge range of possible disputes over ownership of bagels.
  Just one possible example: aging parent originally bought the car, but adult child has been taking over more and more of driving it, and maintaining it. Do they own it now? If so, how much of it?
  Sure, you can just adjudicate this stuff, but for big pieces of property, a system of title, liens, controlled transfers, and so forth seems to work well.
32. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  I think title is just a strange American term for registration.
33. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by alistair1978 · 2018-01-23 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  Uh... no.
  VIN's are (supposed to be) unique. Your PIN is (probably) not. ......
  whoosh!!!!!
34. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 07:59 · Score: 0
  
  VIN numbers exist for a reason.
  The same reason we have PIN numbers for our ATM machines. To drive pedants insane.
  Uh... no.
  VIN's are (supposed to be) unique. Your PIN is (probably) not. Your PIN is supposed be kept private, while the VIN on your car is published. There is nothing distinctive about your PIN that differentiates you from anyone else, upon request, it merely offers verification of your identity. You must have, prior to this point, already made a claim to having a particular identity, so the PIN does not independently identify you. A VIN can be used entirely by itself to uniquely identify both a specific car and its last registered owner.
  Whoosh... PIN (the N is Number) VIN (the N is Number)
35. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anubis+IV · 2018-01-23 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Kudos to you, sir. I actually laughed out loud.
36. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 08:17 · Score: 0
  
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  Clearly you lick the bagels first to establish ownership. You must not have any siblings.
37. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, the ownership of all cars is recorded by the DVLA (Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency). This information determines, e.g., who the ticket gets sent to, when the car gets flashed by a speed camera.
  I presume there's some reason why this record doesn't make this exercise trivial. Maybe the records expire, if the vehicle isn't licensed or tax paid on it for a long time. (Although that hardly seems likely - badgering the owner for tax is also part of the database's purpose.) Or maybe the cars were officially decommissioned (so they ceased to be road-legal, but if they were used to test parking automation that wouldn't matter), and when that happens their ownership stops being tracked. Just speculating.
38. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by mark-t · 2018-01-23 08:36 · Score: 1
  
  Fair call.... I missed that completely.
  No kidding about wooosh! My bad.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
39. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Talderas · 2018-01-23 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  Just one possible example: aging parent originally bought the car, but adult child has been taking over more and more of driving it, and maintaining it. Do they own it now?
  No. The title of ownership is still in the parent's name. Until the parent dies or transfers the title to the child the child has no percentage of ownership of the vehicle.
  
  --
  "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
40. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:36 · Score: 0
  
  I believe the GP is referring to the unnecessary duplication in “PIN number”, “ATM machine”. I believe it is referred to as a “joke”.
  Expand the acronym PIN or abbreviation ATM and you will see.
  In this way, VIN numbers, PIN numbers and ATM machines are all similar.
41. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by shadowknot · 2018-01-23 09:48 · Score: 1
  
  Title is a pretty common term in property law, it's just not used in the context of vehicles in the UK but it's not a US-specific term in general. In the specific case of vehicles it seems to be used more in the US than elsewhere though.
42. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 10:12 · Score: 0
  
  Is a car analogy appropriate if the situation at hand is actually about cars ??
43. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by AmiMoJo · 2018-01-23 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  While technically true, the car must have a registered keeper. Not necessarily the owner, e.g. it's common for kids to be the registered keeper of a car owned by their parents. That person is then responsible for either keeping the vehicle taxed or declaring it "SORN" which basically means "it's kept on private property and can't be used on the public roads".
  So these trapped cars must presumably have been declared as SORN, or the registered keeper would have had to keep paying road tax on them.
  At this point the owner probably doesn't want to be found, because the cars are likely write-offs (won't start without expensive repairs, and even then largely worthless). They would probably prefer that someone else disposes of them at their expense.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
44. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 10:16 · Score: 0
  
  That's his point. A title system allows clear and unambiguous status of ownership instead of situations like he described going to court. Transfer of title between the parent and child happens as part of a deliberate act carried out by the parent and child.
45. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 10:28 · Score: 0
  
  No, the title will claim that you are the owner of the car and that the finance company has a lien on the car. When you pay off the loan, the title is reissued without the lien.
  A lienholder is not the same as an owner, though in practice they do have a legal claim to the property if (and only if) you don't abide by the contract. They can insist that you maintain the value of their collateral by keeping insurance, but they otherwise have no say in what you do with your property. See also mortgage.
46. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 10:48 · Score: 0
  
  The difference is that there is no document that proves ownership of a car in the UK.
  So ... then ... if I steal a car in the UK it's mine because the owner can't prove otherwise?
  I'm sure I'm missing something, but that sounds really fucking broken.
  How the fuck do you establish ownership?
  If someone steals your bag of bagels, how do you establish ownership?
  Easy, by removing them from the corpse of the bagel thief.
47. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Harlequin80 · 2018-01-23 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  This falls down as you don't need to keep a vehicle registered if the vehicle is not on the roads.
  I have many many motorcycles that are not registered and not on the road. When I purchased them many of them were for a cash transaction in a park where the the seller and I wrote a receipt on a bit of paper.
  If I decide I ever want to ride those motorcycles on the road I have to register the vehicle, at which point I have to prove ownership. That ownership proof being the receipt.
48. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by MichaelSmith · 2018-01-23 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  So these things establish ownership in your country? There are no Title records? Remind me not to own a car over there...
  
  A car is like any other thing you own. Your proof of ownership shows that it is yours. There is no special government run ownership tracking system for anything other than land.
  
  --
  http://michaelsmith.id.au
49. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by bobbied · 2018-01-23 11:47 · Score: 1
  
  So in the UK, In the case of disputes, how is it decided? Say the bank says you didn't pay off the loan or your neighbor says the car is theirs and your house burned down so you don't have a bill of sale or anything else to defend yourself. They have the keys to your car because they found them in the soldering ruins of your house after the fire got put out... There are no license plates on it, or insurance because it was an off road vehicle and there hasn't been for a decade.
  What are you going to do to prove it's yours? Surely the government has SOMETHING that says, "this vehicle belongs to this person" someplace....
  In the USA, we track such stuff almost EXACTLY like land, only instead of the county keeping the records, the state does. So in my hypothetical above, we'd contact the state, give them the VIN number of the vehicle in question, have them search their records and see who the current owner is. This is what we call the "title" and we have them for vehicles, trailers and other things like boats. Aircraft are even titled (although at the federal level). Pretty much any real property you can put up as collateral for a loan has a "title" in the USA and I'm guessing in the UK too.
  I'm guessing the issue is more the terms we use more than anything.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
50. Re: Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 12:08 · Score: 0
  
  Only in some states.
51. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by whoever57 · 2018-01-23 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  So...The registration is legal proof of ownership? How do you handle leans when you borrow money to buy a car?
  
  In the UK, you can't put a lien on a car's title, because cars don't have titles. If you borrow money to buy a car in the UK, it's actually an unsecured loan. Or, at least, that's how it used to work when I lived there.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
52. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by whoever57 · 2018-01-23 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  So IF I head down to the government office that handles registrations, I can register YOUR car, buy insurance for it and after a couple of years just call it mine?
  
  Now, I am going to blow your mind. In the past, in the UK, there was no land registry. No registration of who owned a particular piece of land. After the land registry came into force, there was no need to register existing ownership of land. Land only becomes registered on change of ownership. Actually, I am not even sure about change of ownership: I think it may take a sale before the ownership of the land is registered.
  If you squat in a property that is not registered for long enough, not paying rent, etc., then the property becomes yours. This does occasionally happen.
  As for cars: see the links I posted earlier:
  https://www.askthe.police.uk/c...
  https://www.gov.uk/request-inf...
  Note "registered keeper", not owner.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
53. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by whoever57 · 2018-01-23 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  While technically true,
  The best kind of true!
  And I did point out that cars must be registered.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
54. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by MichaelSmith · 2018-01-23 12:46 · Score: 1
  
  I am in Australia but there system here will be much the same. Titles refer to land only here because land comes from the Government originally anyway so its the Government's way of keeping track of who owns what.
  I once had a loan on a car I bought but there was no government involvement in that process. I had to sign a binding agreement and the company who have me the loan could have taken the car back if I had defaulted. They would have to go to court for that I suppose.
  As for how to identify stolen property, then I suppose proof of purchase is a major thing. Keep your receipts.
  The only thing our government tracks about ownership of vehicles is registration. They track the VIN in the rego and if somebody else tries to register that car there will be a database hit on the VIN.
  Its an issue but not one requiring a lot of centralized tracking.
  
  --
  http://michaelsmith.id.au
55. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 13:19 · Score: 0
  
  yes, except in the UK where they don't apparently have titles. try to keep up bud.
56. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 16:12 · Score: 0
  
  gotta say that's the whooshiest whoosh I've seen in years, given two extra examples he still missed it, that some world class blinkering right there!
57. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 16:16 · Score: 0
  
  the OBE is an award not a title
  If it was a Knight of the Garter that would be a title
58. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by whoever57 · 2018-01-23 16:35 · Score: 1
  
  We are talking about the UK, where there are no titles for cars.
  A car loan is an unsecured loan in the UK.
  This page has some useful information on the topic:
  https://www.osv.ltd.uk/registe...
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
59. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Kopp · 2018-01-23 19:51 · Score: 1
  
  Well, then, if you sold it to someone in cash, you could just then claim they stole if from you ? Or are there necessary sale contracts to get ?
60. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 20:38 · Score: 0
  
  Bagels don't have cereal numbers on them. They also don't cost millions of Dogecoin.
  FTFY
61. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by mjwx · 2018-01-24 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  Do they not have title records for cars in the UK? It seems like it'd be a trivial exercise to look up the license plate or the VIN to determine the owner of those cars.
  Yes and no. It depends how old they are. The car park went into receivership in 2003 so the cars may be years older than that, maybe even predating the computerisation of the DVLA.
  
  That's besides the point. The registration record is just the last person who paid tax on the car. The simple and effective defence to that is to say "I sold the car" and with no evidence to the contrary the Judge will be forced to accept that at face value, the DVLA know this so they wouldn't even bother, doubly so if the last record is a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification).
  
  However it doesn't matter as the cars are considered abandoned and destined for a scrapyard.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
62. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by TechyImmigrant · 2018-01-24 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  Go here https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought... and you really don't want to not tell the DVLA, or all the new owners fines will come to you, Getting a signed bill of sale is a good idea too.
  Conversely, when buying a car privately, get the ‘new keeper’s details’ slip (V5C/2) from the seller and tell the DVLA at the same web site.
  The buyer will need to pay tax also.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
63. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by bobbied · 2018-01-24 03:50 · Score: 1
  
  If you squat in a property that is not registered for long enough, not paying rent, etc., then the property becomes yours. This does occasionally happen.
  This happens here too. We inherited "common law" from you guys. We call it "Adverse Possession" and it involves occupying a property long enough to establish that the owner isn't interested in or capable of maintaining ownership. This is very rare here too as the process is time consuming and involves court actions...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
64. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by bobbied · 2018-01-24 03:57 · Score: 1
  
  So.. You can just buy a car using a bank loan and then sell the car for cash and the bank has no way to enforce their interest in the car other than to sue you to collect? Dang, that's a scam just waiting to happen you know. I'll be the banks hate this and have to charge serious interest to make up for their losses..
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
65. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by whoever57 · 2018-01-24 04:19 · Score: 1
  
  The last time* I used a bank loan in the UK to buy a car, the bank just put the money into my account and I wrote out a check to the seller.
  If you want to take the loan for a car and blow it on whatever, there is no need to buy, then sell a car.
  * several decades ago.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
66. Re:Why are the owners of the cars unknown? by Megane · 2018-01-24 09:49 · Score: 1
  
  If you look in the trunks, you'll find Jimmy Hoffa in one.
  Aha! Caught you! Everyone knows it's called the "boot" over there!
  
  --
  #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
/. is going downhill. by Doctor+Morbius · 2018-01-23 05:32 · Score: 2

How is this story relevant to tech? Who cares about a bunch of cars left behind at an abandoned junk yard?

--
If I disagree with you it's because you are wrong.
1. Re:/. is going downhill. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:36 · Score: 0
  
  It's an automated car parking lot, so it's tech.
2. Re:/. is going downhill. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:45 · Score: 0
  
  I can see how going bankrupt would warrant a /. post, viz. robotic stacking didn't pay out. But IDing the cars seems unrelated to the automation aspect in that any type of car park could have this problem.
3. Re:/. is going downhill. by 110010001000 · 2018-01-23 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Um, it is a robot car park that uses AI to stack cars. How is it not relevant to tech???
4. Re:/. is going downhill. by iggymanz · 2018-01-23 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  no there is software problem, the AI system didn't point out it had long abandoned cars.
5. Re:/. is going downhill. by ShanghaiBill · 2018-01-23 06:04 · Score: 2
  
  Um, it is a robot car park that uses AI to stack cars. How is it not relevant to tech???
  Because the technology is not being discussed. I would be very interested in the tech, and even more interested in why it failed. But who owned 8 abandoned car? Who cares?
  I have seen automatic parking in Japan, and it seems to work well there. Maybe the difference is in the demand for parking. Japan has very little "street parking", since they believe streets are for driving, not parking. Before you can buy a car in Japan, you have to provide proof that you own or are leasing a parking space. Also, Edinburgh is way less dense than Tokyo.
6. Re:/. is going downhill. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:13 · Score: 0
  
  Um, it is a robot car park that uses AI to stack cars. How is it not relevant to tech???
  From TFA:
  
  "Drivers would pull into bays and leave their cars to "robots", which would then scan the cars and take them to the nearest space via turntables and lifts."
  Translation: Put Barcode Car A into Parking Slot B.
  The only two people who call that bullshit artificially intelligent are you and the unemployed SkyPark salesman.
7. Re:/. is going downhill. by 110010001000 · 2018-01-23 06:36 · Score: 0
  
  It is 2018. Any program is AI.
8. Re:/. is going downhill. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  It is 2018. Any program is AI.
  And we wonder why we have a fake news problem perpetuated by the ignorant masses.
9. Re:/. is going downhill. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 08:09 · Score: 0
  
  How is this story relevant to tech? Who cares about a bunch of cars left behind at an abandoned junk yard?
  Because .. because it's .. because it's a .. because it's ...ummm .... because it's a heart breaking allegory of how technology can fail us and leave us feeling empty and disillusioned in a cold world that offers no comfort to our misplaced desire to belong.
  Yes, that's it, it's a post-modern criticism of the world around us, which sheds light on the metaphysical sorrow of mankind, and demonstrated that happiness is elusive and fleeting. Through it, we can see timeless truths about the human condition and the frailty of existence.
  I mean, isn't that obvious? ;-)
They don't know? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:34 · Score: 1

VIN numbers?
1. Re:They don't know? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:54 · Score: 1
  
  VIN numbers?
  The owners didn't to go to the ATM machine to get money to pay for the cars being parked. Perhaps because they forgot their PIN numbers.
  FWIW, those ATM machines communicate with NIC cards. And they likely have LCD displays.
2. Re:They don't know? by Darinbob · 2018-01-23 07:36 · Score: 1
  
  The BBC already has a story that the mystery is solved, out today. I guess this is a typical Slashdot error of being too slow to show up in the feed.
  Solution was, these were test cars used when the facility was being built. Junkers.
"car park" by Gravis+Zero · 2018-01-23 05:39 · Score: 1

FYI, it's the British for a parking lot or (like in this case) a parking garage. https://www.merriam-webster.co...

--
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
1. Re:"car park" by SirGarlon · 2018-01-23 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  And here I thought it was like a dog park for autonomous vehicles, so they can get together and play.
  
  --
  [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
2. Re:"car park" by freeze128 · 2018-01-23 06:20 · Score: 1
  
  I imagine a "car park" is like a "dog park" where cars can run and frolic without constant supervision from their owners.
3. Re:"car park" by squiggleslash · 2018-01-23 07:05 · Score: 1
  
  Sometimes British English makes more sense. For example, you park in a car park, not a drive way, and you drive in motorway, not a park way.
  BTW did anyone consider the possibility that the left behind cars might just be abandoned PT Cruisers?
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
4. Re:"car park" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 07:39 · Score: 0
  
  That would mean that at least eight people bought one in the UK alone. That seems a bit much.
5. Re:"car park" by Darinbob · 2018-01-23 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  I can't believe so many posts wondering about this phrase. Are my fellow Americans really that ignorant and stuck in a bubble? Read some British books, watch some British TV. This is slashdot, I'd hope we'd have a lot of Doctor Who fans at the very least. Can someone who is ignorant of British English really be a nerd?
6. Re:"car park" by Darinbob · 2018-01-23 07:52 · Score: 1
  
  I take my dog to the dog lot.
7. Re:"car park" by Darinbob · 2018-01-23 07:54 · Score: 1
  
  For the longest time, I didn't know what a parkway was, and I'm American. So the old joke of park in a driveway, drive in a parkway fell flat for me.
8. Re:"car park" by pjt33 · 2018-01-23 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  Many British drivers park in a drive when they're at home.
9. Re:"car park" by Gravis+Zero · 2018-01-23 08:07 · Score: 2
  
  I can't believe there are so many responses of British people offended that someone didn't know their terminology. ;)
  
  --
  Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
10. Re:"car park" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:51 · Score: 0
  
  You don't think it's rather strange that so many speakers of a dialect have trouble understanding a rather basic and self-explanatory word used in the standard form of their mother tongue?
11. Re:"car park" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 12:24 · Score: 0
  
  I take my dog to the dog lot.
  Surely you meant the barking lot, no?
12. Re:"car park" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 16:27 · Score: 0
  
  er no it's ENGLISH
  see English is the language of ENGLAND
  this car park is in ENGLAND
  just because you speak some bastardised hybrid tongue
  (PS I'm not English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish or any other sort of Britain)
13. Re:"car park" by craigwilkie · 2018-01-23 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  Ding, ding, ding - geography lesson required!
Owner unknown? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:41 · Score: 0

Should be as easy as going to their version of the DMV and looking up the VIN.
Re: it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:41 · Score: 0

Car park, that's your lot... you wanky doodle fuckwit
Excellent! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:46 · Score: 0

A mystery raised and solved all in the same summary!
Talk about efficient reporting...
1. Re:Excellent! by bobbied · 2018-01-23 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  A mystery raised and solved all in the same summary!
  Talk about efficient reporting...
  Or just fake news.. Depends on how you look at it.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
People leave cars all the time by enjar · 2018-01-23 05:48 · Score: 1

People leave the country and abandon the car. This is common enough at airports that there's a process for declaring the car abandoned and auctioning it off. I'd imagine something similar happened here, or maybe someone died and their car was in the garage. Shouldn't be major news or hard to track down though, there is a number plate and a VIN on the car ... see who owns it, send them all required letters/notice, then send to auction if they don't respond. The car dealer can cut a new key with the VIN and correct legal documents.
1. Re:People leave cars all the time by TechyImmigrant · 2018-01-23 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  If the cars were purchased a long time ago (before the perpetual licensing) and kept on private property, they may never have registered and licensed them. this is a sensible thing to do in the circumstances. The car tax isn't free. That would explain why they couldn't find the owners. The owner had forgotten they owned them and hadn't done the paperwork.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
2. Re: People leave cars all the time by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  That only works if the owners keep on paying tax and insurance. The moment they stop, they will start receiving letters and, after a while, bailiffs.
Jason Bourne by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 05:48 · Score: 0

Bourne
Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by elrous0 · 2018-01-23 05:53 · Score: 5, Funny

And, after a 10-year bender, he's asking himself "Now, where did I park my car?"

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
1. Re:Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:07 · Score: 0
  
  I don't understand what that has to do with this story?
2. Re:Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by TechyImmigrant · 2018-01-23 06:22 · Score: 2
  
  I don't understand what that has to do with this story?
  It's funny because 10 years ago we didn't have Lyft and Uber.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
3. Re:Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:35 · Score: 0
  
  > I don't understand what an abandoned car has to do with a story about abandoned cars
4. Re:Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:43 · Score: 0
  
  Oh wow was that hilarious and unpredictable. How about that airline food, it sucks AMIRIGHT?
5. Re:Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by Toad-san · 2018-01-23 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  That sure looks like my Rabbit! Although I don't remember ever being in Edinburgh.
6. Re:Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 08:17 · Score: 0
  
  what are you, stoopid
7. Re:Somewhere in Edinburgh, a drunk is waking up by antdude · 2018-01-23 13:00 · Score: 1
  
  Dude, Where's My Car?
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Re:it's a parking lot by TechyImmigrant · 2018-01-23 06:11 · Score: 0

It's a car park to us you septic cunt. Fuck off with meddling with our language, you have FAR bigger problems.
I dare you to wander around Londonistan waving an Israeli flag.
The likely outcome is that nothing would happen. Maybe your weak arm would get tired. Also onlookers would judge you as being insensitive.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Re:it's a parking lot by Stonent1 · 2018-01-23 06:15 · Score: 1

Look who's talking...
The Sopranos by sunking2 · 2018-01-23 06:18 · Score: 1

Everything you need to know is in Adriana's farewell episode.
Marvin probably parked them by jfdavis668 · 2018-01-23 06:20 · Score: 1

While he was waiting for the end of the universe.
1. Re:Marvin probably parked them by Megane · 2018-01-24 09:52 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure we'll see where they actually came from on the next series of Dr. Who. Maybe they could even write an entire story around the concept.
  
  --
  #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Going? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 06:27 · Score: 0

It has hit bottom, and is digging down.
Re:it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 07:01 · Score: 0

Maybe in some other language, but not in English.
Re:it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 07:06 · Score: 0

Unfortunately no place by that name seems to exist. Can I perhaps show my support for the bastion of human rights and separation of church and state that is Israel somewhere else?
Dear Slashdot by in10se · 2018-01-23 07:26 · Score: 4, Funny

There are also abandoned cars in my neighborhood. Slashdot, please help me solve this non-tech mystery on a supposedly tech-related site.

--
Popisms.com - Connecting pop culture
1. Re:Dear Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:46 · Score: 0
  
  I told you that it's not abandoned! It's a classic from the 90's and I'm working on it. Now stop bitching and come over and help me work on it. Oh and bring beer. And uhmmm some tools too. Maybe a burger as well.
  Thanks
  Your Neighbor
2. Re:Dear Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 17:27 · Score: 0
  
  There are also abandoned cars in my neighborhood. Slashdot, please help me solve this non-tech mystery on a supposedly tech-related site.
  Break the windshields, prop open the hoods with 2x4s and slash the tires. That should attract just the sort of people you want to your neighborhood.
Whoosh by pjt33 · 2018-01-23 07:59 · Score: 1

GP's only point was that it's a VIN, not a VIN number.
Dude! by PPH · 2018-01-23 08:32 · Score: 1

Where's my car?

--
Have gnu, will travel.
Re: it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:14 · Score: 0

Who invented cars motherfucker?
It's a parking lot. We invent it, we name it.
Mystery solved by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:29 · Score: 1

Mystery appears to have been solved by a commenter on the story at the Edinburgh Evening News - seemingly the vehicles in question were purchased by the company which built the car park to conduct tests of the new system.
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/has-the-mystery-of-the-cars-in-edinburgh-s-robot-car-park-been-solved-1-4670137
1. Re:Mystery solved by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-24 03:34 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, you mean, like TFA and the posted stub says? Wow.
Re: it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:34 · Score: 0

Do you speak on behalf of all Germans? I always got the impression you guys generally preferred British English.
Re: it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 09:41 · Score: 0

Karl Benz invented cars you ignorant motherfucker. As far as I know the "platz" in Parkplatz doesn't translate to "lot".
Got anymore kernels of wisdom? Maybe the old "Henry Ford Invented the Assembly Line" alternative fact?
Re: it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 10:20 · Score: 0

That's just an opinion. There is zero proof.
Re:it's a parking lot by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-23 16:08 · Score: 0

in 2012 when I was last in London there was a guy who I assume was an Israeli wearing an Israeli army surplus jacket (I assume, it had Israeli flag shoulder flashes anyway) and for the 3 hours we were in the line for the Tower of London he wasn't murdered, attacked, spat upon or otherwise treated in anyway differently than the rest of us lined up in the rain.
However being an American of the wrong Colou, or ethnic background in the Southern parts of the US, well that'd be taking your life in your hands