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Tesla Model S Plows Into a Fire Truck While Using Autopilot (cnbc.com)
On Monday, a Tesla Model S plowed into the back of a fire truck on a freeway near Culver City, California. The driver is claiming the car was on Tesla's Autopilot driver assistance system. As a result, the National Traffic Safety Board will be investigating both driver and vehicle factors. CNBC reports: The Culver City Firefighters Association Local 1927 union chapter tweeted out a picture of the crash on Monday afternoon. The firetruck was on the freeway helping after a motorcycle accident, the union said in an Instagram post. The post said there were no injuries. The outcome could have been much worse if firefighters had been standing at the back of the truck, Battalion Chief Ken Powell told the San Jose Mercury News. "Autopilot is intended for use only with a fully attentive driver," Tesla said in a statement sent to CNBC.
Hey Tesla, how about you STOP calling it autopilot. It's NOT autopilot. You don't get into the car and say "Ok Tesla, let's go to the pharmacy" and then sit back and enjoy the ride while the car drives you there.
Call it "Driver Assist" as in the driver is watching what's going on around them like they should and let the car keep itself within the lane and not bump into other cars while driving.
You set a high expectation with drivers when you keep calling it "Autopilot". Stop it.
It's the difference between constant, can't-miss-a-second attention vs check-it-once-a-minute attention.
"Fully attentive" means can't-miss-a-second, not check-it-once-a-minute.
My brain wanders more, I'm able to glance to the side for a few seconds to look at something interesting on the road and I'm not constantly adjusting speed/steering.
In other words, you are part of the dangerous problem: people who don't understand that you need to pay full attention to driving when on autopilot. You should not be on the road, because your disregard of Tesla's instructions means you're not just a danger to yourself, but to everybody else too.
His defense didn't work because: "Autopilot is intended for use only with a fully attentive driver"! Same thing is said in TFS of this article with the fire truck story.
If you think about it, a "fully attentive driver" ready to take control at any time seems to me like the driver needs driving school instructor skills where the instructor can take control of the car if the student screws up. Driving school instructors need more skills than a casual driver. It seems to me like being able to take over on the fly at any time might be harder than when you already have control in the first place.
Does driving a Tesla require a driving school instructor license? Maybe it should if it doesn't...
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
It's the difference between constant, can't-miss-a-second attention vs check-it-once-a-minute attention.
It you have not looked where you are going for a minute then, at 60 MPH, you will have travelled one mile -- you would not have seen that fire truck even if you had tried! Driving like that is what causes accidents like this.
A paradox of safety features like this is that gives the drivers more confidence to push the car to its limits; before anti skid brakes people were much more cautious on wet surfaces than they are today. I remember this being discussed on Radio 4 (England) some 20 years ago; the tongue in cheek comment was that the best way of reducing accidents would be to put a large, sharp spike above the dashboard pointing at the driver's head; the driver would then be careful enough to avoid any accident.
While using Tesla Autopilot the driver is to be ready with hands over the wheel and ready and aware of the complete environment around them.
;) Heck if that is the case you may as well be driving yourself ;)
;)
In order to take instantaneous control if needed
Just my 2 cents
That is a strikingly severe limitation... one that I had not heard about this previously. is this actually deliberate, because I cannot fathom how it would only be the best we can do technologically.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
OK so you have a large red stopped vehicle, and the tesla's sensor location system failed so badly as not to detect it!
;) So was there a reddish sky ;)
;)
Pretty bad oops, in their self driving code! And their product in general!
Let me see what was the first Tesla death, the Tesla mistook the White side of a semi trailer for the sky?
Just my 2 cents
what the hell is the point of having an automatic driving system if you have to sit there waiting for that split second between when you realize the autopilot isn't working and when the accident occurs?
It's not an automatic driving system. It's just Tesla marketing that implies it is. Their disclaimer says it's not.
You are right about what fully attentive means, but there's no reason for Tesla nor anyone else to think that that is the behaviour they're encouraging.
1) this "autopilot" idea makes it harder to pay attention because you aren't actually doing anything interactive, and
2) it's just not that easy to suddenly take control of something in a split second when you aren't already in the mindset of controlling the vehicle.
I prefer what some other manufacturers are doing: have the driving assistance leap into action when the driver's inattention has already got themselves into shit.
It is meant to be an adjunct to driving and nothing else. If you are too tired, inebriated, or otherwise do not posses the capacity to drive a car under normal conditions, the autopilot system is also unsuited for use. It was designed with the idea that the person behind the wheel was otherwise capable of driving and reacting under normal conditions without the aid of the autopilot system. It comes into its own when you consider things like driving fatigue and issues that come with old age or imperfect health. A few scenarios demonstrate this:
In one scenario, a person driving several hundred miles a day on average would greatly benefit from such a system. Even though the driver is still supposed to keep hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, the duty of minor adjustments in speed and lane position can fall to the autopilot, making the driving experience subjectively easier and less exhausting. As someone who has years of experience driving large recreation vehicles (30ft+ length) I can personally attest that one of the most mentally demanding tasks on long-haul trips is just holding steady in your lane. In this case the autopilot can help extend the amount of time a driver needs between stops and can ultimately increase the amount of miles traveled in a day without increasing driving fatigue similar amounts.
Another scenario is one I find personally compelling, consider the old or otherwise physically less fit individuals. This can be age related issues (slower cognition, degrading vision, etc), or similar problems caused in younger individuals by illness. Driving can be a hazard for those whose faculties are only minorly deficient. These people don't recognize that their own deficiencies may make them dangerous drivers, and furthermore those around may not recognize it either. But a loss of say a few percentage in terms of effectiveness in driving can make all the difference. Things like forgetting to look over your shoulder when turning, failing to notice a merging car on a thoroughfare, even just noticing an individual clad in dark clothing in low-light conditions are serious considerations. Heck even fully attentive drivers have trouble sometimes with these. If you could augment these minor deficits in ability with the autopilot system you could markedly increase the safety of this specific class of drivers. Again, as before these drivers arent expected to relinquish total control of their vehicle. The system merely augments their own driving ability to fill in the gaps. In this scenario, even a slightly deficient driver would be expected to see a large obstruction in the road such as a bright red fire engine with flashing lights and sirens.
And finally, as another poster mentioned, this is merely a stepping stone to something greater. If you think Tesla is fine resting on their laurels think again. Everyone working on self-driving cars have that level 5 autonomy class as the end-goal, but as the saying goes "Rome was not build in a day". Eventually these systems will get smarter and less prone to errors. If there is one thing we know about Human beings its that we can accomplish anything if we truly set our minds to it. As long as there are people dreaming of the future, its only a matter of time before it becomes the present.
What benefit does it add?
Its benefit is if the driver's treats it like an extra set of eyes, and is able to take corrective action when the driver fraks up. If the driver thinks it'll drive for him, you're right, it's a bad idea. (If you know anything about an aircraft's autopilot, you know it does not mean the flight crew is playing "I spy" while the plane does all the work).
* Blind Spots. You wanna change lanes or merge into traffic. So you check your blind spot, and glance away from the road in front for a fraction of a second. Problem is, somebody else just cut you off and stomped on the brakes. (Or somebody cut off the guy in front of you, and he stomped on the brakes.) In either case, the car starts braking before you know there's a problem.
* Blind Spots part II: We aren't paying as much attention as we think we are. The reality is humans suck at paying attention, we have mountains of data to prove it, and that's why we pay big bucks to watch "Magicians" and "Illusionists" perform.
* Blind Spots, part III: We're effectively blind for the fraction of a second while our eyes move from one focus point to another. That matters more than you'd think. The "I didn't see it coming" excuse doesn't even require a distraction... just glance at the road sign for a second.
* Distractions: A Pennsylvania insurance company found that 62% of accidents were caused by somebody being "lost in thought". Humans suck at paying attention.
* Another one I didn't appreciate until I got a car with a similar system: The car handles the gas pedal, and I cover the brake pedal with my foot. Wild animals (deer, moose), pets, children, and even adults jump in front of cars all the time. My car (not a Tesla) won't react until something is in my lane, so there's a chance I'll react first.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Approaching a fire truck parked on the highway gives you a LOT more than a split second to apply the brakes.
I think the Auto Emerg Braking may have kicked in. It doesn't look like the airbags were triggered and I would have expected a LOT more damage for at collision at 65 mph.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
So this excuses it from being safe?
It isn't clear if it is safe or not. This guy claimed Autopilot was engaged, but I am skeptical. In other Autopilot failures there were explanations, like projections above the cameras' field of view, or a lorry exactly the color of the sky. But in this case it just plowed into a firetruck for no apparent reason. That is a pretty big bug to have gone unnoticed until now.
But in this case it just plowed into a firetruck for no apparent reason.
It seems like there's a bug, either way.... the Tesla is buggy.... these cars are supposed to have automatic emergency breaking, aren't they?
Explain how crashing into a firetruck at 65 MPH happens without automatic emergency breaking having also failed......
Seems to be the fundamental issue that everyone is missing. There is no way that the Tesla was going 65 at impact. The crush zone is barely impacted, the fire truck looks barely dented. At most that looks like a 7-10 MPH hit. Which means if the Autopilot was engaged, it was doing it's best to stop.
At 65 MPH, that Tesla would of be buried under that red truck up to it's A pillar's at a minimum, if not the B pillar.