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Tax Change Aims to Lure Intellectual Property Back to the US (wsj.com)

U.S. companies rich in intellectual property are looking at a new tax-friendly regime: the U.S (Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source). From a report: A provision in the newly revised U.S. tax code slashes the income tax companies pay on royalties from the overseas use of intellectual property or so-called intangible assets, such as licenses and patents. The new tax break, for what is dubbed foreign-derived intangible income, effectively reduces tax on foreign income from goods and services produced in the U.S. using patents and other intellectual property to 13.125% until the end of 2025, after which the rate rises to 16.4%. Previously, royalties paid to a unit in the U.S. would have been taxed similarly to other U.S. income, for which the top corporate tax rate was 35%. The new headline corporate rate is 21%. The deduction is meant to induce companies with large U.S. operations and significant foreign income from patent royalties to base more of those assets in the U.S. Such companies, especially in technology and pharmaceutical sectors, often hold foreign rights for their IP in a company based in a low-tax country.

21 of 186 comments (clear)

  1. A good first step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another great example of Trump common sense. Now make inversions illegal and make work requirements for Medicaid mandatory. #MAGA

    1. Re: A good first step. by PPH · · Score: 2

      middle class

      Simple solution: Incorporate.

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    2. Re: A good first step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And this helps explain why middle class taxes are going up.
      Yay.

      And a couple of months ago, I'd bet quite a bit you were running around screaming "Pay your fair share!!!"

      All you care about is being NOT TRUMP. You don't give a shit about anything else other than beating Trump.

      So please just fuck off and die.

    3. Re:A good first step. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The tax policy stuff isn't really Trump though. It's people like Paul Ryan. Trump is the Steve Jobs of the party - nasty but charismatic. Paul Ryan is more like the Wozniak - geeky but politically not that astute.

      In a odd sort of way the fundamentally corrupt nature of American politics works well for tax reform. If you have a bunch of lobbyists complaining all the time you can gain quite a bit of information from that. So if you know Apple and co have tonnes of money overseas, you can figure out what it would take to make them bring it back.

      Which, to the Trump administration's credit, they actually did

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news...

      Apple Inc. said it will bring hundreds of billions of overseas dollars back to the U.S., pay about $38 billion in taxes on the money and spend tens of billions on domestic jobs, manufacturing and data centers in the coming years.

      The iPhone maker plans capital expenditures of $30 billion in the U.S. over five years and will create 20,000 new jobs at existing sites and a new campus it intends to open. The Cupertino, California-based company's shares rose 1.7 percent to a record closing price of $179.10.

      âoeWe are focusing our investments in areas where we can have a direct impact on job creation and job preparedness,â Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook said in a statement Wednesday, which also alluded to unspecified plans by the company to accelerate education programs.

      You don't necessarily need to do what an individual lobbyist is lobbying for to make the companies they're lobbying for do what you want them to do.

      A combination of tax cuts policy wonkish stuffs like this and good old fashioned Trumpian bullying and intimidation to get companies to create jobs in the US should do the job. And of course Trumpian praise for ones who comply.

      Plus of course the Trumpian bullying and praise affects market cap

      https://finance.yahoo.com/quot...

      Apple's market cap is $886 billion. 1.7% of that is $15 billion. And they presumably reckon they'll make some more cash if public approval boosts their share price and on their business operations in the US.

      All in all it's an interesting mixture of conventional and unconventional incentives.

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    4. Re: A good first step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Something is better than nothing. Nothing is what we currently receive when US companies move offshore for tax purposes. It's not a hard concept.

    5. Re: A good first step. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Trump is a proven traitor ....

      I'm curious - what color is the sky on the planet you're phoning this claptrap in from?

      I'm just waiting for the proof that Obama, his DoJ, and the FBI not only colluded in giving Hillary! a pass on her email server, but also weaponized the US intelligence agencies against Trump - illegally using the FBI to create the Trump "dossier", getting DNI Clapper to brief it to Obama so it gets in the press, then after Hillary loses anyway, used that same fake dossier to get a FISA warrant to wiretap Trump, then had Susan Rice illegally unmask US citizens.

      Then, we can get on to how the crooked investigators working for Mueller lost all those text messages from the time all that was happening.

    6. Re: A good first step. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In high taxes places like the UK and Sweden everyone earning a decent hourly rate incorporates. Even though personal taxes are high the corporate ones are low.

      http://stats.oecd.org/index.as...

      The Trump tax cut cut the US corporate rate from 35% to 21%

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      That's competitive with the Swedish rate of 22% or the UK rate of 19%.

      Also it could be argued that forcing people to leave money in a company encourages them to use it in ways that generate more money - it's sort of like an ISA in the UK which is exempt from income tax and capital gains tax. At least until you draw the money out. ISAs are used for retirement savings - if you put shares in them you don't get hit for taxes until you cash out.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      And of course if you let people use their money to generate more money by having low tax rates, they'll eventually end up paying more tax than if you took their money away and gave it to the government which will spends all the money it gets and more.

      The government needs to pass the Marshmallow Test!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

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    7. Re: A good first step. by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Informative

      For a small "income pass-through" business, incorporation will probably cost more in administrative overhead than saved in taxes. I investigated this with my tax person considering the new tax law as we just came into possession of a small farm with a cash flow of ~$50 - $75k. She indicated the overhead costs would be too much unless cash flow was much larger. I think she was talking hundreds of thousands or at least $1 million.

      It absolutely is not.

      I have an S-Corp, and work through it as sole employee and owner.

      What overhead costs?? Yes, I pay a CPA at end of year to do my taxes, but during the year, its just me and it isn't *that* much extra work, and it isn't rocket surgery.

      And it is worth it...I can now write off most anything that is even remotely related to current work or work I wish to pursue.

      I also, save on employment taxes (SS/Medicare) and do not have to pay that on the full amount I bill on.

      You pay yourself a "reasonable" salary, and that is the amount you pay SS/Medicare on.

      Example:

      You Bill $100/yr.

      You pay yourself a reasonable salary of say, $40K. Out of this mostly, you give yourself a paycheck...and the company pays state/federal/SS/Medicare based on this.

      At EOY, from that remaining $60K, after you deduct for all expenditures, retirement funding, etc....what's left falls through onto your personal taxes, and you only pay state/federal tax on that.

      I just keep records during the year, I log onto state and fed websites monthly and quarterly to pay taxes....and send paper work to CPA at EOY and she tells me what extra I pay..

      and, by the way, during the year, that extra money is earning interest for me.

      I am FAR from being a millionaire, I live basically an upper middle class lifestyle, and that little extra effort, is worth it for me to keep more of my hard earned money.

      And for once it is nice to see that I likely will be affected by this new tax law.

      Its about time the small business guy caught a break.

      The reason that some millionaires set up pass through type companies...is because its a fucking GOOD idea. Why not emulate what works...?

      It cost very little extra but a bit of your time and effort.

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    8. Re: A good first step. by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Informative
      So, I'm guessing you live in a HIGH tax state like NY or CA?

      You might wanna look into getting the local politicians to work for YOU and lower those taxes.

      The fed shouldn't subsidize your state taxes being too high.....

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    9. Re: A good first step. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

      Software contractors all do it. So do plumbers, gas fitters, dental hygienists and so on.

      Back when I did it it was only £70 to set up a company. For that price you'd be crazy not to. Companies cost money to run of course but it's easy to save enough by having a Limited Company that you come out ahead.

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  2. I can see the CNN headline now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Tax Change Introduced by Trump that Aims to Lure Intellectual Property Back to the US Is Actually A Bad Thing. Here's Why.

    1. Re:I can see the CNN headline now by iggymanz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      false, you made that up.

      The majority of large companies *legally* do things to avoid taxes; now there is reason to do business here.

    2. Re:I can see the CNN headline now by zifn4b · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is a bad thing, because it's just another tax break for companies that are already evading taxes

      Ok let's try your logic out here. By using Turbo Tax to comprehensively evaluate the tax code to get you the biggest tax refund aren't you also evading taxes by your definition? Corporations are basically using a more sophisticated version of "Turbo Tax" to lower their effective tax rate. Isn't that what you and everyone else is doing too? So much in fact that Turbo Tax, Tax Act, etc. all created profitable software businesses around it...

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    3. Re: I can see the CNN headline now by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      Actually, fixing the healthcare system would lower labor costs, infrastructure improvements would also increase productivity and lower costs. Education invests increase productivity, and not having a generation of debt slaves cuts a lot of costs as well. UBI is great for starting new businesses.

      But no, I wouldn't actively incentivize businesses, because I don't have Alzheimer's, so I know that supply-side economics doesn't work.

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  3. so now more IP / patent trolls in the usa! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    so now more IP / patent trolls in the usa!

  4. You are so full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is a bad thing, because it's just another tax break for companies that are already evading taxes, and it won't actually bring anything back into the US.

    Apple, Returning Overseas Cash, to Pay $38 Billion Tax Bill

    1. Re:You are so full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Whoa, there, tiger. Lets stick to TFA here. We aren't talking about repatriated profits. we are talking about how taxes are calculated when a company licenses IP to a foreign subsidiary. Choosing what international branch licenses IP to what international branch doesn't actually move anything anywhere, its just numbers on paper. So while its true that this change could make those internal deals taxable in the US, that isn't really the point of this new tax loophole.

      The real point is to pay less tax in the case where you license to a foreign company that is not a subsidiary of the US company that owns the IP. This way, when US companies license their brands to foreign manufacturers, they will have a lowered tax burden. This is essentially how Trump's hotel business makes its money....

      Trump literally gave himself a tax cut and you are trying to defend it with an unrelated story about Apple repatriating overseas income.

  5. Let's be clear by zifn4b · · Score: 2

    Intellectual property aka the knowledge about how to build something that you may or may not have a patent on is not technically transferable. What is transferable are the patents, copyrights, trademarks and any other rights to use the intellectual property. This article is really mincing words. No matter how you spin it, we are talking about repatriating money (assets of monetary value is you prefer) that is held abroad in foreign countries. We've been talking about it for years now. Whether it has something to do with intellectual property, subscriptions, licenses, patents, etc. is of no real interest. That's just partitioning the pile of money into categories. I don't care about that. What I care about are large sums of money sitting in a foreign country and there being no compelling reason for the holder of said funds to repatriate it to the United States to be used for the benefit of our country. We all know the primary reason that money isn't more frequently repatriated and that's because of prohibitive taxes on the money when it is transferred. No matter what your principles are or how much of a bunch greedy sacks of crap the 86% that holds 1% of the wealth is, lowering corporate taxes and tax holidays DO IN FACT make it more worth their consideration to repatriate the taxes. But we already know this and it's already be discussed ad nauseum on slashdot, why are we talking about it AGAIN?

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  6. Re:Oh noes! More tax cut "fail"!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    The ONLY President in US history to never see 3% growth in the US economy in any year of his term..

    If you're pulling out simplistic numbers, then clearly the answer is raising taxes.

    What's "pulled out" about the fact that the US never saw 3% annual growth under Obama - the only President that never had that? Even Jimmy Fucking Carter managed to get over that bar - it's not that hard.

    Obama spent his entire Presidency talking about "remaking the US economy" - meaning along "progressive"/redistributionist lines. He waged a "war on coal" and threw every effort he could to stop fracking. He lived in a pie-in-the-sky world powered by solar, wind, and unicorn farts. It's no surprise employment, wages, and the entire US economy stagnated under his lead - he'd never been in charge of even a two-person 7-11 shift in his entire life.

    Given stated economic goals are just about the same as those Hugo Chavez implemented for Venezuela that resulted in an utter, deadly train-wreck of an economy it's probably a good thing Obama was incompetent in getting things done.

    Hell, that's a lot more relevant than your bullshit with what? A 0.06 correlation coefficient?

  7. Re:One tax for money collected in that country. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    Why can't we just have it simple. You get taxed where you make the money... period. This includes intellectual property. Time to set right the tax laws and base everything on the location of the consumer.

    Every country can decide what their tax rules will be. For instance I am partial to one tax rate for income and another for taking money out of a country.

    That is exactly what 99% of all countries do. Even down to the personal level. You pay taxes where you earn your income, end of story. The US, however, wants a share of ALL your worldwide income, regardless of where you made it - or even if you are in the US at all. So you get the proliferation of overseas subsidiaries as legally separate entities as a maneuver to avoid double-taxation (yes, the US gives you credit for overseas taxes paid, but only up to a point - and then you get to pay overseas AND US income taxes on everything above, and the limits are pretty low...)

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  8. Flat taxes don't work by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    For two reasons. First, they're regressive. e.g. they punish the poor and reward the wealthy. I've heard various schemes to 'fix' this that always end with a system just as complex and full of holes as progressive taxation.

    But second, progressive taxes, when properly applied, serve as a check on out of control wealth inequality. Remember, past a certain point money is power, not wealth. That point is around where you can no longer spend it on any conceivable luxury. Where the only thing left to spend your money on is bending people to your will & whims. Progressive taxes can and should be used to prevent this, because otherwise you end up with oligarchy, aristocracy, and the kind of rampant conservatism that lead to the Dark Ages (e.g. no progress as the wealthy block it to maintain their favorable status quo).

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