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US Government Investigates Apple Over iPhone Battery Slowdowns (phonedog.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the saga-continues dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from PhoneDog: The U.S. Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission are investigating Apple about its updates that slowed performance on iPhones with older batteries. Sources speaking to Bloomberg say that the agencies are looking into whether Apple violated securities laws regarding disclosures about its updates that throttled older iPhones. So far, the DOJ and SEC have requested information from Apple. Because the investigation is still early, it's unclear if the agencies will actually take an action against Apple. Apple apologized for not being more clear about its actions after the news of its performance-throttling updates came out, but we've still seen class action lawsuits and now this investigation come out. The good news is that Apple will be more transparent about iPhone battery health and performance in the future, but for now, it'll have to deal with the DOJ and SEC.

68 of 123 comments (clear)

  1. Investigate! by tripleevenfall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?

    1. Re:Investigate! by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's easier to shake them down than to actually fix broken tax laws. This is the shake-down.

    2. Re:Investigate! by twotacocombo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's less about the technical facts and more about the intent. Did they truly slow these phones down for the sole intent of managing aging batteries, or did they do it knowing full well that it may discourage users of these phones enough that they would then see purchasing a new phone as the best course of action? If you cripple working phones in order to drive sales, is that not something you would want the government to investigate? Imagine if you had an older car and the manufacturer, without your knowledge or consent, dropped the performance of the engine down to a level that caused it to be sluggish and aggravating to drive. Would you not have a problem with this, no matter what reason they coughed up when pressured for an explanation?

    3. Re: Investigate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Intel should be investigated over all the shitty Spectre and Meltdown patches then.
      Intel is throttling to fix a problem. Apple is throttling to fix a problem.

    4. Re:Investigate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?

      It's just a bunch of politicians whoring for publicity, nothing unusual about that. However, if we are lucky they may end up doing some good by stumbling onto a few others in the industry who are doing this because I have my doubts Apple is the only one anymore than VW was the only diesel manufacturer to install test defeat devices. Although VW got all the blame messing with software to enable totally illegal NOx emissions, this has since turned out to be something of an favourite industry sport on both sides of the Atlantic.

    5. Re:Investigate! by duranaki · · Score: 2

      I don't know what they are investigating, but I for one would be looking for documentation (emails, meeting minutes, etc.) that people inside Apple also considered this as having the bonus side effect of getting people to buy new phones and if there was a plan in place to avoid disclosing the nature of the change, not making it a user selection on purpose, etc. And I don't know where I draw the line between big-brother being nosy and big-giant corporation taking advantage of their market position and nerfing hardware customers bought out-right to trick them into buying more.

    6. Re:Investigate! by ljw1004 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public.

      From TFS: agencies are looking into whether Apple violated securities laws regarding disclosures.

      Is this something we really want the government doing?

      Do we want the government checking whether publicly companies illegally fail to disclose important information to their investors? And punishing any companies found to have done so? -- YES, emphatically YES.

    7. Re:Investigate! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Interesting that they are investigating potential defrauding of investors, where as in Europe it's potential defrauding of customers.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Investigate! by Tulsa_Time · · Score: 1

      You have to document the impact to customers before the penalties can be assessed.

      Even if they admitted their mistake.

      --
      5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
    9. Re:Investigate! by gravewax · · Score: 1

      What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?

      I would think their is potential for investigation, the actions of apple at best can be considered poor if you accept their reasons. At worst it is criminal if the motives were what many suspect which is to force users to upgrade.

    10. Re:Investigate! by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      ^ /thread

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    11. Re:Investigate! by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      If it's that or grenading the engine because they determined that piston ring wear (IIRC) was unacceptable at the higher torque?

      Dodge did just this with their computers. I have an 04 Hemi and no fuel gage because the newer pump (old fuel pump failed) requires newer firmware. Thing is, the newer firmware nerfed *all* the 5.7 Hemi's because some had a ring clearance issue... so I have a choice, decreased performance and (possibly) longer engine life, or keep it as is and have better performance, but might blow my engine up?

      No one is censuring Chrysler about this, in fact it's considered a recall. It is the directly analogous automotive issue for this apple battery issue. Battery is not strong enough to run the phone in some situations, so they nerf the CPU such that the battery can handle the load.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    12. Re:Investigate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the agencies are looking into whether Apple violated securities laws regarding disclosures about its updates that throttled older iPhones.

      It sounds like it's less about whether or not it's illegal to write malware, as it may be illegal to sell malware without telling customers and (more importantly) investors.

      They admitted that they did it.

      But nobody knows whether or not it was illegal. The "investigation" might be less about probing what Apple did, as asking lawyers what they think about what Apple did.

      The issue is probably going to come down to whether or not Apple should have been compelled to tell stockholders and potential stockholders about the reasonably-expected consequences of the malware to the value of Apple's stock. Imagine if you bought Apple stock, not knowing that their customers were about to get pissed, while maybe people in the company knew there was about to be a big stink and might have sold.

    13. Re:Investigate! by twotacocombo · · Score: 1

      Well, was Dodge open about what they were doing and why? Or did it take a lot of digging after people wondered why their cars felt a decrease in performance before Dodge owned up to the fact that they gimped everyone's engine below the advertised specs without announcement? To me, it's less the act of doing what was done and more the total lack of information and transparency regarding it. Keeping something like this hidden just reeks of ill intent. If they came out and said "We're worried about blowing up your engines so here's what we're doing...", that's completely acceptable. Apple was not that forthcoming.

    14. Re:Investigate! by greenwow · · Score: 1

      And don't let them weasel out of the class action lawsuit with their fake $29 battery replacement offer. A coworker's son works at the local Apple store, and he said they're refusing to do about 90% of the replacements. I know the devices I took in from work were all denied due to one excuse or another.

    15. Re:Investigate! by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      The initial TSB just said:
      "Reliability update for PCM"

      While Apple didn't communicate and that may be an issue, what they actually did is no different than this. The only way to get "pep" back in your engine was to buy a new PCM that wasn't flashed, or a newer model of the engine all together that had revised components.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    16. Re:Investigate! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I'm an Apple fan (though I like to think I'm not a fanboy), and I'm okay with this investigation. While the facts about what happened aren't in dispute, the decisions that led to those actions are in dispute, and depending on what they end up being, they might point towards misdeeds on Apple's part. For instance, while I doubt the government will find any indication of it, if Apple was slowing already-purchased phones down for the purpose of driving people to purchase new phones, there'd be some serious problems for them, given that they would have effectively been engaging in a bait-and-switch.

      I expect that the government will subpoena the relevant e-mails, investigate whether that was the intent, and then will almost certainly come to the conclusion that there's no evidence of Apple engaging in any wrongdoing. At the same time, I expect that the investigation will be dragged through the news cycles every few months whenever a politician or competitor who's opposed to Apple in some way needs a quick way to make Apple look like the bad guy.

      I.e. Politics as usual.

    17. Re:Investigate! by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      More importantly, the issue is a non user replaceable battery, which saves Apple money and generates big profits at replacement. So if more people noticed bad battery and more people replaced them, more people would be pissed off about the price. So in terms of longer term outcomes, the idea of non user replaceable batteries, designed obsolescence, loss of user capital worth in the products, also need to be checked. Should expensive phones need to last say a decade, with reasonable care and repair. How much repair should an end user have access too, replace screen, replace battery, replace sim, replace memory at minimum. Are laws required.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:Investigate! by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      No shit... I used to be part of writing a web browser (with a ridiculously large user base world wide) that intentionally reformatted web pages and shrunk content to reduce bandwidth consumption. I wonder if they'll come after us for altering content to save the user money. And no... we didn't give an option to download the full quality items if they requested. So if you really want to see Kim Kardashian's ass in all it's nasty glory, you'll have to use another web browser.... I wonder if that in itself is able to be called a public service.

    19. Re: Investigate! by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      You don't have to read TFS, but the second sentence does answer your question.

    20. Re:Investigate! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      What's there to investigate, really? They admitted that they did it. The information is public. Is it illegal to write software which could be construed to have a useful purpose even if it negatively impacts performance? That could describe features of just about any software out there. Is this something we really want the government doing?

      Mod Parent UP!!!!

      This is THE crux of the biscuit!

      Score 100 Insightful!

    21. Re:Investigate! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      Don't sully the sacred memory and lyrics of the GREAT Francis Vincent Zappa (and the performances of Mark Vollman and Howard Kaylan) by making it into some dumbass, halfassed ad hominem attack on ANYONE, even cd Reimer!!!

      Just. Don't.

    22. Re:Investigate! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      And don't let them weasel out of the class action lawsuit with their fake $29 battery replacement offer. A coworker's son works at the local Apple store, and he said they're refusing to do about 90% of the replacements. I know the devices I took in from work were all denied due to one excuse or another.

      Prove it, or STFU.

    23. Re:Investigate! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I'm an Apple fan (though I like to think I'm not a fanboy), and I'm okay with this investigation. While the facts about what happened aren't in dispute, the decisions that led to those actions are in dispute, and depending on what they end up being, they might point towards misdeeds on Apple's part. For instance, while I doubt the government will find any indication of it, if Apple was slowing already-purchased phones down for the purpose of driving people to purchase new phones, there'd be some serious problems for them, given that they would have effectively been engaging in a bait-and-switch.

      I expect that the government will subpoena the relevant e-mails, investigate whether that was the intent, and then will almost certainly come to the conclusion that there's no evidence of Apple engaging in any wrongdoing. At the same time, I expect that the investigation will be dragged through the news cycles every few months whenever a politician or competitor who's opposed to Apple in some way needs a quick way to make Apple look like the bad guy.

      I.e. Politics as usual.

      Bullshit.

      Don't you find it a bit COMBEENIENT that this "investigation" come STRAIGHT on the heels of the FBI testifying in Congress about "unbreakable encryption"? Especially since we ALL know who has the best track record I. That regard...

      Conveeeeeenient, indeed.

    24. Re:Investigate! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Like I said, politics as usual.

    25. Re:Investigate! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I think the original problem of phones crashing or the charge indicator suddenly going from 70% to 2% was just a genuine design flaw, a standard engineering cock-up due to lack of testing. Apple kind of has a history of similar mistakes over its whole product range.

      It's the response that is problematic. Did they take advantage of the situation to both cover up the flaw and enrich themselves? It certainly looks that way. In some countries they appear to have a legal obligation to offer free replacements or 70%+ refunds.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:Investigate! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The battery that isn't easy to replace allows a larger battery inside the case. My iPhone 5S is about 7mm thick, and if a millimeter had to be lost for an easily replaceable battery that would either have reduced battery life significantly or thickened the phone significantly. People seem to buy slimmer phones, so making it thicker wasn't attractive.

      Seriously, if your battery is going to need to be changed every three years or so, how easy does it have to be?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    27. Re:Investigate! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Why are you calling the changes malware? They serve the useful purpose of preventing the phone from crashing with too much power draw. The fact that they have some negative aspects doesn't make them malware. Consider Meltdown: Intel got maximum performance, but included a major security flaw, which is roughly the reverse.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. SEC. Really? by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

    I think they might be overstepping their charter a bit. About the SEC from the horses mouth. I guess someone with too much money that happens to know someone high up, and owned one of the effected phones got all butt hurt.

    1. Re:SEC. Really? by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Depends, did executives trade stocks knowing they had this time bomb?

    2. Re:SEC. Really? by gravewax · · Score: 1

      They are not overstepping their charter at all. The SEC deals with company disclosures and they are investigating whether Apple breached the disclosure laws.

  3. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's because they don't "replace" the battery in iPhones. They copy the data from the old one on to a new one, hand your that, and then ship your old one to be "refurbished" (which is, of course, basically just replacing the battery).

    Because they can't do the battery replacements in-store (because the phone is glued shut and impossible to open without special tools), that's the best they can do to enable a "quick" repair. (Still takes a couple of hours to do the copy.)

  4. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by Rockoon · · Score: 1, Troll

    it will put you where you would have been if this feature had not been implemented.

    It will give people back all the time they lost waiting for their slow-assed phone all this time? No? Yeah.

    It won't. It does not people people where they would have been. Stop apologizing for apple using insane bullshit logic.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  5. Re: Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I just don't get all the rage over throttled CPUs.
    Everyone is fine with throttled bandwidth. Gov won't even investigate that.
    Gov is just mad at Apple because they don't help the gov spy on iPhones. Oh! I do get it.

  6. Meh. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    The government "investigates" a lot of things. However, Tim Cook was recently seen kissing The Donald's ass. No connection of course.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  7. More transparent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    More transparent? lol?

    More than half the people posting here defend their actions, saying throttling without notification is a perfectly acceptable behaviour. They've never been transparent before... what makes anyone think they'll change now?

  8. iPhone usage by jahir.social.012 · · Score: 1

    It's better to use android over iPhone. I know it is style, it looks better but for better benefits android should adopt. If you have money but you don't know where to spend, then the Apple store is for you. https://brillins.com/

  9. Pretty soon it will investigate DrDos too. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    Apparently the rumors about "DOS is not done till Lotus wont run (in DR-DOS)" has reached the ears of the government. It will start an investigation anytime soon.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Pretty soon it will investigate DrDos too. by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      I thought that was MS-DOS...

    2. Re:Pretty soon it will investigate DrDos too. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apparently the rumors about "DOS is not done till Lotus wont run (in DR-DOS)" has reached the ears of the government. It will start an investigation anytime soon.

      The USDoJ found that Microsoft had acted in basically every anticompetitive way possible, and then John Ashcroft (GWB's AG) declared that any punishment would not be in the best interest of America. Shortly thereafter, Gates formed his Foundation and continued the work on strong IP law that he began at Microsoft, this time largely on behalf of Big Pharma — financially benefiting both the Foundation, and Gates directly. This is merely an escalation of the earlier strong-arm tactics of the Business Software Alliance.

      Call me a nutter if you like, I'm used to that. But Gates is a career criminal, and the only reason he's still wealthy is that some kind of deal was struck with the Bush Administration. It's not like government doesn't like to take money from people.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Pretty soon it will investigate DrDos too. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      DR DOS was the competitor to Ms-DOS. They kept modifying MS-DOS to make sure Lotus, if maintained compatibility with Ms-DOS would not run in DR-DOS. Well, it is so long ago, may be I am misremembering it..

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    4. Re:Pretty soon it will investigate DrDos too. by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      I remember that Microsoft was developing Windows 3.1 at the time, and kept changing it so it wouldn't run under DR-DOS. Digital Research had to release a patch to allow Windows to run. Maybe that's what you remember.

    5. Re:Pretty soon it will investigate DrDos too. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      you are a nutter. like him or hate him gates has done more good for the world than bad, especially since his retirement.

      Computing is important to all fields of science, and Microsoft set back computing a decade at a time when science is more important than ever before. The Gates Foundation has not stamped out a single disease, because they can't even get into some countries because they are not a humanitarian organization, but an arm of Big Pharma.

      he gives away billions of dollars worth of free immunisations and underwrites poor countries investments in immunisations (or in some cases pays their debts in full for it).

      You can't get the Gates Foundation to come into your country unless you support IP law so strong that you will not be allowed to manufacture medications for your people even if there is no other way to save their lives. Instead, they insist that your country go into debt to Big Pharma. So this is very much about debt: It's about creating debt in the future.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by Freischutz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it will put you where you would have been if this feature had not been implemented.

    It will give people back all the time they lost waiting for their slow-assed phone all this time? No? Yeah. It won't. It does not people people where they would have been. Stop apologizing for apple using insane bullshit logic.

    Congratulations, by trashing Apple for not extending your lifespan by the same amount of minutes you feel you lost waiting for apps to load you have finally taken Apple hatred beyond what the laws of physics can deliver.

  11. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by magzteel · · Score: 1

    That's because they don't "replace" the battery in iPhones. They copy the data from the old one on to a new one, hand your that, and then ship your old one to be "refurbished" (which is, of course, basically just replacing the battery).

    Because they can't do the battery replacements in-store (because the phone is glued shut and impossible to open without special tools), that's the best they can do to enable a "quick" repair. (Still takes a couple of hours to do the copy.)

    This is nonsense. An IPhone 6 battery replacement is a ten minute job for someone who knows how.

  12. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

    That's because they don't "replace" the battery in iPhones. They copy the data from the old one on to a new one, hand your that, and then ship your old one to be "refurbished" (which is, of course, basically just replacing the battery).

    Because they can't do the battery replacements in-store (because the phone is glued shut and impossible to open without special tools), that's the best they can do to enable a "quick" repair. (Still takes a couple of hours to do the copy.)

    Why are haters always the latest to get the news? I mean, if you're gonna parry some "facts". at least let it be recent enough to be true.

    The last iPhone to be glued shut was the iPhone 3GS. Circa 2009. The iPhone 4 (from 2010) and onwards are not glued shut and can be opened by removing 2 screws. Yes, 2 screws. Granted, replacing a battery in an iPhone 4 is a royal PITA, but the iPhone 5 and onwards is easy.

    Apple does it all in-store nowadays - takes 15 minutes. And since the affected iPhones so far are the iPhone 6 and similar, it's not too hard.

    Hell, that cellphone repair shop in every mall ought to be able to do it as well for $30 long before Apple offered it. And even iFixit will sell you a kit to replace your battery for $20.

    It ain't hard. And the battery has been easier to change for most of the iPhone's history, too. There's plenty of true things you can use to hate about Apple, so stick with true facts, not what's fake news today.

  13. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It does suck they used the $29 battery replacement as a way of ducking a class action lawsuit then they refuse to honor that for the vast majority of people for any excuse they can find.

  14. Battery Replacement Scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do you remember how Apples PR team quickly jumped at offering customers a solution of replacing their cell phone battery for cheap?

    Well what good is a solution if the company will not "act" on it?

    I have two clients that were turned away from Apple after attempting to get their battery replaced for their IPhone 6.
    They were told by the reps that there are no batteries available, "they may come in April". Then the rep immediately tried to encourage my client to buy a new phone.

    Has anyone else experienced this?

    It is becoming tiring that companies can say whatever suites them to make problems go away.
    Will we ever live in a world of corporate accountability?

    1. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      Do you remember how Apples PR team quickly jumped at offering customers a solution of replacing their cell phone battery for cheap?

      Well what good is a solution if the company will not "act" on it?

      I have two clients that were turned away from Apple after attempting to get their battery replaced for their IPhone 6.
      They were told by the reps that there are no batteries available, "they may come in April". Then the rep immediately tried to encourage my client to buy a new phone.

      Has anyone else experienced this?

      It is becoming tiring that companies can say whatever suites them to make problems go away.
      Will we ever live in a world of corporate accountability?

      Hey dumbass!

      There ARE no batteries available, thanks to everyone FORCING Apple to replace batteries that are still at 90+ capacity, like the battery on my iPhone 6 Plus that is over THREE years old, and sitting at 93% battery capacity.

    2. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by swb · · Score: 1

      How do you know how much capacity is left in the battery? Is there a diagnostic that shows?

      I have a iPhone 6 Plus that has some weird battery behavior (jumping battery charge levels from like 80% to 49% and then staying at 49% for ages).

    3. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You are basing your remaining battery capacity on Apple's down app. When they used that app to check my girlfriend's battery they found it had 87% remaining, but that didn't stop it from suddenly jumping from 50% charged to 2% charged, or randomly powering off.

      I think all the app does is measure the amount of energy that the battery stores, not its ability to deliver high currents. As such even if your battery still stores 90% of its rated energy, it might not actually work properly in your phone.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      How do you know how much capacity is left in the battery? Is there a diagnostic that shows?

      I have a iPhone 6 Plus that has some weird battery behavior (jumping battery charge levels from like 80% to 49% and then staying at 49% for ages).

      I believe that Apple is going to add that to a future version of iOS; HOWEVER, there are several Apps that show Battery "Health" as a Percentage.

      The one that I used, and that several people on MacRumors were citing as "coming up with the same value as Apple's Genius-Bar Diagnostic" is called "Battery Life". But beware! There are actually TWO Apps that have VERY similar Icons, both are called "Battery Life". But one gives you the "Battery Life" as a Percentage of "Wear", and the other gives you the Percentage of Life-Left. So, one would show "7%" (wear), while the other would show "93%" (life-left).

      The one with the little lightning-bolt in the middle of the battery depicted on the icon is the "Wear" one. The one with the Exclamation Point in the middle of the battery depicted on the icon is the "life-left" one. Sorry I can't get back to the exact name of the App with the Exclamation Point...

      But, something interesting just happened. I pressed the "Rate and Review" button in the App with the Exclamation Point; and it promptly said that the App "was not available in the U.S. App Store" (!!!) So???

      So maybe the "Battery Life" with the Lightning-Bolt is the one you want. And this is the link:

      https://itunes.apple.com/us/ap...

      Sorry for the confusion!

    5. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      You are basing your remaining battery capacity on Apple's down app. When they used that app to check my girlfriend's battery they found it had 87% remaining, but that didn't stop it from suddenly jumping from 50% charged to 2% charged, or randomly powering off.

      I think all the app does is measure the amount of energy that the battery stores, not its ability to deliver high currents. As such even if your battery still stores 90% of its rated energy, it might not actually work properly in your phone.

      I was using a third party app that many people on MacRumors were recommending as "agreeing" with the Apple "Genius-Bar" Diagnostic.

      https://itunes.apple.com/us/ap...

      It is called "Battery Life", and displays a "quickie look" of battery "wear", or you can look at the Raw Data. In the "Raw Data" view, it shows both the current battery charge, as well as an obviously-averaged "Capacity", in which it compares to the design-spec for the particular battery. So, for example, that bargraph shows that my "Capacity" is 93%, or 2700 mAh, rather than the "ideal" of 2915 mAh for my iPhone 6 Plus. So, there's your numbers, and how they are derived.

    6. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Right, so it's only showing capacity, not current delivery capability. This it is worthless for diagnosing this issue.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Right, so it's only showing capacity, not current delivery capability. This it is worthless for diagnosing this issue.

      not unrelated, generally; so definitely NOT "worthless". And the current delivery capacity involves measuring the battery's effective series resistance, which is kind of hard for a simple App to do.

      So, of you're so smart, why don't you show us all how it's done, and release an iOS App that can accurately measure "current delivery capacity" with any reasonable accuracy and repeatability whatsoever.

      Tool.

    8. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Measuring the current delivery capability is easy, and in fact exactly what Apple does to detect when throttling is required. Since V=IR it's a simple matter of loading up the CPU to draw some fairly consistent current and measuring how much the battery voltage collapses.

      It should be possible to do in an app if apps can measure battery voltage.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by swb · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info. I looked at the screenshots and I guess it's not clear to me that this one really has what it takes to do real analysis against the battery.

      It's not clear to me that Apple provides a public developer API for reading more than battery percentage (I actually looked it up).

      I would think any battery diagnostic app would have to monitor low level battery details while presenting a well-calibrated load (ie, that produces a known mAh real electrical load) against the phone's electrical system. The app would have a table derived from running it on new phones with known good batteries showing "ideal battery drain rate" which would then be compared against the data provided by the battery in question.

      Battery "health" would then be the deviation between the canned data for known good batteries vs. the battery in the phone it's being run on.

      The downside would be you would have to run the app for a fairly long time (minutes to possibly tens of minutes or longer) to get a reliable measure, and I'm also not sure how it would easily match background consumption variations (notifications or apps with frequently polled notification data). I suspect while testing you'd want to go into airplane mode.

      I also am not sure how well such an app would deal with actual bad batteries like mine which are normal for 100-80% charge states but then have weird levels after that, such as jumping between levels at some power states.

      I do a lot of boating and battery monitoring is a big deal and even where you have unrestricted access to batteries and can do a lot of load monitoring with good instruments, actual battery charge state and health are really hard to know well. The best instrument I've found, the Balmar SmartGauge, which has been extensively bench tested, nobody really knows how it works. It was developed for military vehicles, and the best anyone can figure is that it pulses the batteries with high frequency pulses and has some kind of internal tables from many well-calibrated tests of various chemistries.

    10. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Measuring the current delivery capability is easy, and in fact exactly what Apple does to detect when throttling is required. Since V=IR it's a simple matter of loading up the CPU to draw some fairly consistent current and measuring how much the battery voltage collapses.

      It should be possible to do in an app if apps can measure battery voltage.

      I understand V = IR, but there is no way to accurately determine "I".

      You say "just keep loading up the CPU and watch battery Voltage." The problem is, it really isn't that simple. Even asuming that Apps can read battery voltage directly, There are still too many variables to ACCURATELY predict current draw from just Instantaneous CPU load.

      Sorry, the ONLY way to measure DC current flow accurately is with a current shunt. But I VERY much doubt that something as power sensitive as a smartphone would want to waste even a little power with a resistive shunt. So, there is just no practical possibility that an App could directly measure current, and even a rough guesstimate using your suggested method (even assuming V can be measured) would be so wildly inaccurate as to be virtually useless.

    11. Re:Battery Replacement Scam by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I is the thing you are calculating by measuring V and using a fixed R. Well, not R exactly, but a fixed load, which is the CPU at 100%.

      Say you decide that your test will be CPU at 100% on both cores, screen on maximum brightness, radios turned off. That's going to be fairly consistent across devices. If you are Apple you can even measure I under these conditions, but you don't actually need to. All you need to do is measure V, and do it on a decent number of sample devices, checking at what point the drop in V causes the device to reset under load.

      Now you can calculate battery health based on V under your fixed load, and predict with a fair degree of accuracy when it won't be able to run the phone under load.

      That is certainly what Apple does. They monitor voltage, and when it drops to a certain point start to throttle the CPU before the phone resets. Add some code to ignore those low readings when calculating battery % left so it doesn't jump from 50% to 2%, and quietly slip it into an iOS update.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  15. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    it will put you where you would have been if this feature had not been implemented.

    It will give people back all the time they lost waiting for their slow-assed phone all this time? No? Yeah.

    It won't. It does not people people where they would have been. Stop apologizing for apple using insane bullshit logic.

    You know the one thing you can't receive in any Court Judgment?

    Time.

    So, in that sense, no Court Judgment can make anyone "whole".

    So give it a rest.

  16. Re: Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    I just don't get all the rage over throttled CPUs.
    Everyone is fine with throttled bandwidth. Gov won't even investigate that.
    Gov is just mad at Apple because they don't help the gov spy on iPhones. Oh! I do get it.

    Exactly!

  17. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    That's because they don't "replace" the battery in iPhones. They copy the data from the old one on to a new one, hand your that, and then ship your old one to be "refurbished" (which is, of course, basically just replacing the battery).

    Because they can't do the battery replacements in-store (because the phone is glued shut and impossible to open without special tools), that's the best they can do to enable a "quick" repair. (Still takes a couple of hours to do the copy.)

    You're full of shot, Hater!

    If every third party cellphone repair shop can do it nearly while-you-wait; so can someone in the back of an Apple Store.

    Stupid fuck.

  18. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    This is nonsense. An IPhone 6 battery replacement is a ten minute job for someone who knows how.

    Well, yes, but we're talking about Apple "geniuses" here. (No, really, that's what Apple calls their support people.) Is it any surprise that they don't know how? Or at the very least aren't allowed to?

    The Geniuses don't do it. They have a dedicated repair tech in the back.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    Fuck off and die, you stupid COWARD, or log in and take your Karmic whipping like an adult!

  19. Glued components, special tools by DrYak · · Score: 1

    The last iPhone to be glued shut was the iPhone 3GS. Circa 2009. The iPhone 4 (from 2010) and onwards are not glued shut and can be opened by removing 2 screws. Yes, 2 screws.

    Did replace the battery on my SO's iPhone 5.
      - Those two screws are shitty Apple pentalobular proprietary stuff, requiring you to buy special tools, because "fuck standards".
      - The glass still requires you to use custom tools to pull it out (luckily, any object with enough suction that you have laying around would do : car dashboard GPS holder, kitchen towel holder, etc. combined with a guitar pick/plectrum for lever. But in theory that would have been even more tools to buy).
      - The battery is still glued inside the case.

    At least the good news is that you can easily source good quality replacement for really cheap prices from reputable 3rd party source, so you don't need to rely on some shady sellers from Shenzen on ebay or alibaba.

    My phone at the exact same timeframe (Jolla 1 - JP1301) :
      - unclip plastic cover
      - remove old battery
      - put new battery
      - close plastic cover

    (Again, battery from 3rd party source, because Jolla doesn't have any more in tock).

    Any other gadget without a clip-on back cover (wireless mouse, etc.) :
      - unscrew the back cover (often standard screws like philips, sometime weird but common stuff like torx)
      - unplug the old battery's connector
      - plug the the new battery's connector
      - screw back everything into place.

    But yeah, the iPhone is 1mm thinner than the other gadgets thanks to all the stupid stuff.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  20. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repa by Freischutz · · Score: 1

    Another awww. Useless shills like you should be outright banned. Your worse than paid advertising for apple. If you dont like it here maybe /. isnt for you. Spread your lies elsewhere; appleinsider seems pretty tech ignorant, try your luck there.

    Dang, it's been a while since I came across somebody who sucked as much ass at trolling as you do.

  21. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repairs by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Lies. Look at this guide to replace an iPhone 8 Plus battery: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/i...

    Two screws, then you have to remove the display (!) which is _glued_ in. They recommend a hairdryer to soften the glue prior to removal, and caution that removing the screen destroys the waterproof seals. There there are bunch more screws and cables, and the battery is stuck down with adhesive too.

    It's by no means easy for an ordinary, unskilled person to do.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  22. Re:Hopefully they'll force Apple to allow repa by Freischutz · · Score: 1

    Another ignorant ass hat that wants to cover up apples design flaw with some apple only physics bullshit.

    We seem to have hit a Fuckface Von Nervestick.
    -- Jon Stewart

  23. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion