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Finland Will Introduce a Mobile 'Driver's License' App (yle.fi)
The Finnish Broadcasting Corporation reports:
Simo Karppinen, Unit Head at the Finnish Transport and Safety Agency Trafi, says it plans to roll out an app that will function as a free digital driving license by the end of summer. The agency said it expects many Finns to take up the use of the digital driving license as soon as it is released. The digital license has been in use by a test group who report successfully using the app where proof of identity is required, such as picking up postal packages. Other uses for the digital license include informing the owner of license renewal dates... The digital driving license will not record the location of its user or serve as a tracking device.
Slashdot reader Kiuas writes that it's being used as a supplement for traditional card licenses rather than a replacement, because "Current Finnish law mandates that all driver's licenses are handed out in a physical form. So everyone will still get a physical driver's license, but those who wish to do so can now leave their card at home and use the app instead.
Slashdot reader Kiuas writes that it's being used as a supplement for traditional card licenses rather than a replacement, because "Current Finnish law mandates that all driver's licenses are handed out in a physical form. So everyone will still get a physical driver's license, but those who wish to do so can now leave their card at home and use the app instead.
How is this supposed to work on a rooted Smartphone?
Banking software usually has root detector software integrated, but as various demos and lectures at hacking conferences have shown, their success rate is probably somewhere below the average AV software against malware.
If banking malware can make appear anything on screen, so can a software to "emulate" this. Of course, if it goes through everywhere, then using fake ID for bars, driving when underage, etc. just got a lot easier.
This is an excellent idea. Apps cannot be written to spoof output. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
I've done this for ages and it works for me. All my IDs are photographed and scanned into KeePass entries. If I ever don't have my wallet I pull it up on my phone. The one time I was stopped the cop puzzled on it for a few seconds, shrugged, and told me to be on my way. Since essentially every police force in the free world can look up your drivers license on their in-car computer, it's hard for them to argue that not physically holding it is so terrible anyway.
See? It says so right on the tin. No. Really. Big Brother isn't watching. No matter what kind of Terrist/AmberAlert stuff we later proclaim, we PROMISE we won't use this to indiscriminately do whatever the fuck we feel like. Really. You can trust us. Honest.
I haven't been pulled over in at least ten years, but there is no way that I am every handing over my smartphone to an officer, or anyone else for that matter.
I hate fat people.
Even if it doesn't track your location, it represents yet another attack vector on your phone. They didn't say anything about not sucking up all the other data on it.
Other than that I like the idea. As long as it's optional and I can still use a regular driver's license like I do now.
Current traffic stop:
"License and registration, please." (just kidding - they never say "please")
Future traffic stop:
"Hand over your phone"
Far distant dystopian future:
You don't have to hand over anything - they already know who you are,
The far distant isn't that far at all.
And in Europe you generally don't have to hand over the registration papers, the license plate is already checked when they stop you and if there's a doubt then they check the VIN on the car.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
" where proof of identity is required,"
That's an identity card, as we non-US-citizens call it.
Driving licenses are for, you guessed it, driving cars.
Lots of people don't have driving licenses but they still get packages, buy alcohol , open a bank-account, take a flight or other stuff needing identification.
In Brazil already has this in place:
https://servicos.serpro.gov.br/cnh-digital/
http://www.brasil.gov.br/infraestrutura/2017/07/carteira-de-habilitacao-eletronica-e-aprovada-pelo-contran
Not all states off it already, they have until july 2018 to comply (original date was february 2018...).
It is just a digitally signed version of the paper document, you have to register the cellphone in order for the digital document to be valid.
... you have to turn your smartphone over to the officer and let him take it back to his vehicle to "call it in"?
If you are smart enough to root your phone then I would hope you are smart enough to not hand the Police your unlocked phone because obviously they are going to need to plug the phone in to verify information and obviously you don't have an expectation of privacy at that point so it doesn't matter if you've consented to a search of the phone and every account linked to it...
Why do you think NOBODY has gone on to implement this after considering it? Even politicians know that letting an algorithm go through the phone they use to look at gay bank porn and manage their offshore twink accounts is a bad idea.
Several states in Australia are piloting this also. Itâ(TM)ll be the norm before long.
There's at least one private company [as a contractor for the state(s)] working on doing something like this in the United States. There's already a pilot program in at least one state.
Go on...tell me another one.
That's funny right there.
Considering you can just tap the “Deny” button at any “The Mobile Driver’s License app would like to use your location” prompt that might appear, I don’t see why it’s that hard to believe. After all, they’d just be another app, with no more access to your location than any other. I have no problem with this notion, provided they don’t mandate through law that location data be enabled for their app with no opt-out or ability to use a physical license instead.
Would a gov/mil/police request ever respect the consumer level user settings?
Would any consumer level user settings the user could track show what the gov app was OS and hardware approved to do?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I have a driving license since 33 years. ...)
I was asked twice to show it. Once when a fuse burned out and my rear lights went dead, and once when I actually was a bit to fast in France on a highway (and I actually did not have the license with me
Why would I need an app? (Actually I have photos of all my important documents on my phone anyway).
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
You don't have to hand over anything - they already know who you are,
When I opened an account at my new bank they asked if I would allow them to scan my driving license to keep on file. I didn't think much of it until I went to the bank later. I walked up to the counter, gave my name and asked to do a withdrawal. The teller punched in my name and my photo popped up on her screen, she processed my withdrawal very quickly after that. I still had to sign my name on a little digital scanner, much like one would see at a checkout for using a credit card. Of course the bank had cameras watching everything I did. I didn't have to give the teller a piece of paper to "prove" who I am. Trusting a piece of paper as any kind of identifying document is a fail to start with. Even Sam's Club figured this out with their membership cards, they will take your picture and print it on the membership card only as a backup, the real record is in their computers and the cashiers will check your face with what is on their screen when ringing up your sale.
Now, tell me how this interaction with my bank is all that different than with a police officer that might, for example, pull me over to tell me I had a burnt out taillight? They have a computer with my photo in it. The vehicle is registered and a plate is visible. The officer will most likely run my plate before leaving the cruiser, find that I am the owner, and get my photo. When the officer comes up to my window there will be a dash computer printout or a tablet computer to compare my face to the photo on file. Assuming my face still looks like the photo, and I don't have any other reason for the officer to have an interest in me, then I should be on my way quickly with perhaps a piece of paper from the officer to remind me that I need to fix my taillight.
If you don't want the government to "already know who you are" when doing traffic enforcement then we'd need to do away with license plates and licenses to drive. I don't just mean the physical license plates and identifying cards, I mean no more registration of vehicles or government testing for driving. If you believe that the government having the ability to scan license plates, or that having your photo on their computer, is a problem then I'm having a problem with finding a solution than ending the practice of needing prior government approval to drive on public roads.
If you believe that safety on the roads is more important than your privacy then we have come to what Dr. Franklin warned us about long ago. Those who choose safety over liberty will get neither safety or liberty.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Would a gov/mil/police request ever respect the consumer level user settings?
Would any consumer level user settings the user could track show what the gov app was OS and hardware approved to do?
How long would the government be able to keep quiet this ability to track the users of their apps? I'm sure that people would not be surprised that the government would lie to them but then if the government did lie then people would simply not use the app. What do you expect the government to do then? Require smart phone users to install the app? Then people will leave the phone home, wrap the phone in aluminum foil as they drive, or find other ways to subvert this.
I'm assuming Finland has some level of democratic representation in government. If there are enough people that find the government lied to them on tracking their movement then this can be corrected in the next election.
Also, the phone OS developers would have to be in on this. They'd have to have a "hook" in the OS for the government supplied app to be able to track location even though the user requested that location data not be sent to the app. How long in a free economy would a company like this still be able to sell phones?
This is from someone that has a serious mistrust of government but even I find this difficult to comprehend as any real threat.
What this app does is provide a means to present a government identifying document to non-government entities. The government would already have your photo on file. This is not much different than taking a photo of your ID and storing it on your phone. Presumably the app will have some feature to assure the person viewing it that it's a legitimate document and not something someone altered in Photoshop. How the app would make that assurance was not stated in the fine article.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I find it completely frustrating on how much faith people put in a little piece of laminated paper. That piece of paper proves nothing.
I tried to explain the worthlessness of a license to drive to someone, on how unless the document is verified in some way it means nothing. The guy told me of course it has value, when pulled over he feels great confidence in having the officer look at his ID card. I tried to explain to him that the officer is not checking his license, he's checking how compliant he is. Someone reluctant to hand over ID, claiming the ID was lost, or sweating profusely at handing it over will be looked at more closely. If the person hands over an ID card then the officer might actually look at some obvious errors or instance of fraud. If the photo looks even close to that of the person handing it over, and the expiration date is in the future, then the officer will often not check further.
Again, this is not "checking the ID", this is playing a psychological game.
If an officer was honestly checking the identity of the person then he'd have to check the government records. The ID card simply makes this a simpler process by giving the person a unique ID number, a number that correlates to the information on file.
But this is not an app for the government to use. It's for non-government people to check, and it said so in the article. This is for things like signing for a package delivery at a store. I fully expect this app to be spoofed at some point. If people rely on this app for things like picking up prescriptions then someone is going to falsify this to get some other person's pills. Then what are they going to have? They'll have to check security cameras, rely on witness accounts, maybe they can do some signature analysis (they did get a signature, right?) or whatever else might happen in a case of identity fraud.
Unless this app has some very complex authentication then it's a step backward. It's far easier to manipulate bits on a screen than come up with things like watermarks and other anti-fraud systems common in government issued documents.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Please explain to me how this is in any way better than simply setting a reminder slightly shorter than the renewal date on your new driver's license and a PDF of your image on your phone.
This is such a big nothing burger.
Ken
Look, either the government can override your OS restrictions, in which case they have root access to your phone and don't need the app, or they cannot override your OS restrictions, and denying the permissions is enough.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
It's a huge problem. But given the quality of "drivers" we have today, letting drivers get away with impaired driving, vehicular homicide, etc. would be a huge problem as well. I wish I knew how to solve the one without causing the other. Freedom requires responsibility, and it only seems to take a handful of jacka**es who can't figure that out in order to detract from the freedom of everyone.
Nonaggression works!
You keep using these Turkish words. I don't think they mean what I think they mean.
Nonaggression works!