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A Biohacker Regrets Publicly Injecting Himself With CRISPR (theatlantic.com)
Sarah Zhang, reporting for The Atlantic: When Josiah Zayner watched a biotech CEO drop his pants at a biohacking conference and inject himself with an untested herpes treatment, he realized things had gone off the rails. Zayner is no stranger to stunts in biohacking -- loosely defined as experiments, often on the self, that take place outside of traditional lab spaces. You might say he invented their latest incarnation: He's sterilized his body to "transplant" his entire microbiome in front of a reporter. He's squabbled with the FDA about selling a kit to make glow-in-the-dark beer. He's extensively documented attempts to genetically engineer the color of his skin. And most notoriously, he injected his arm with DNA encoding for CRISPR that could theoretically enhance his muscles -- in between taking swigs of Scotch at a live-streamed event during an October conference. (Experts say -- and even Zayner himself in the live-stream conceded -- it's unlikely to work.) So when Zayner saw Ascendance Biomedical's CEO injecting himself on a live-stream earlier this month, you might say there was an uneasy flicker of recognition.
Ascendance Bio soon fell apart in almost comical fashion. The company's own biohackers -- who created the treatment but who were not being paid -- revolted and the CEO locked himself in a lab. Even before all that, the company had another man inject himself with an untested HIV treatment on Facebook Live. And just days after the pants-less herpes treatment stunt, another biohacker who shared lab space with Ascendance posted a video detailing a self-created gene therapy for lactose intolerance. The stakes in biohacking seem to be getting higher and higher. "Honestly, I kind of blame myself," Zayner told me recently. He's been in a soul-searching mood; he recently had a kid and the backlash to the CRISPR stunt in October had been getting to him. "There's no doubt in my mind that somebody is going to end up hurt eventually," he said.
Ascendance Bio soon fell apart in almost comical fashion. The company's own biohackers -- who created the treatment but who were not being paid -- revolted and the CEO locked himself in a lab. Even before all that, the company had another man inject himself with an untested HIV treatment on Facebook Live. And just days after the pants-less herpes treatment stunt, another biohacker who shared lab space with Ascendance posted a video detailing a self-created gene therapy for lactose intolerance. The stakes in biohacking seem to be getting higher and higher. "Honestly, I kind of blame myself," Zayner told me recently. He's been in a soul-searching mood; he recently had a kid and the backlash to the CRISPR stunt in October had been getting to him. "There's no doubt in my mind that somebody is going to end up hurt eventually," he said.
That's how evil super villains are created and super heros.
We were close to have Herpes-Man running around!!!
The Tide CRISPR challenge!
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Anyone who has played Bioshock already knows how this all ends.
...under the guise of condemning others.
When he does it it's because he's a "social activist", when others do it it's because "to get press and get publicity and get famous".
*injects CRISPR*
*becomes raptor hybrid*
*open the door*
*get on the floor*
*everybody walk the dinosaur*
Where is the proof that the canister contained any active ingredients? My bet would be that the Ceo knew that it was only a saline solution and he injected him self to get some media attention.
Suddenly that flat-earther rocket dude doesn't like quite as foolish anymore.
If these Biohackers are successful, we will hail them as risk takers and pioneers. Nobel Prizes Winners who experimented on themselves
And yet you're not "brave" enough to not be an anonymous coward.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
People injecting untested bio-treatments as publicity, the Prez suggesting that the answer to school gun violence is to arm all teachers, political think tanks suggesting that we can safely ignore global warming...
Is there a strain of the flu going around that reduces emotional maturity to that of an 8-year-old?
I don't think the social landscape reflects right vs. left, I think it reflects the lowest common denominator; what is the base level of maturity that most people seem willing to embrace? Is it just easier for people to emote and let that lead their actions?
How will we as a civilization progress if few will strive for maturity and wisdom?
This is evolution in action. Survival of the fittest genetic engineers. Those too stupid to play with the technology will find a way to get a Darwin award. But will any of them concoct something so stupid it will win the award for our entire species, rather than just them personally?
"What would you do for a Klondike Bar?"
Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
The pussy generation was already really grinding my gears.
I still played with proper chemistry kits as a kid. I built tree houses with electrical fences, moats and self-made bows & arrows, before I reached puberty.
I'm thinking the moat was around the entire tree, not just the treehouse.
And of course, I have to ask, was the electrical fence IN the moat?
I'll be the first to day, I guess I'm not in these kinds of news cycles to know that bio-hacking was an actual thing taken seriously. This is just oozing epic levels glory-stunt bullshit. I honestly don't see this as any different than the Philadelphia Eagles fan eating horse shit other than this Josiah guy wearing a business casual suit, some shinny shoes he got polished in an airport, Skagen wrist watch and a $100 frat boi hair cut.
I think we have a new definition of silicon-valley-startup-investor-wrangling think tank triple-dog-dare you shit. What happened to all the simple attention getters in life wrapped in proven work, dedication and education? I guess I'm out of touch with what the new kids do these days.
> And yet you're not "brave" enough to not be an anonymous coward.
Brave? I simply "didn't bother" for the first 6 months.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
And it's probably HIM, already. Anyone remember how CRISPR lets them change the thing they want to change, but also causes thousands of random genetic changes in unrelated DNA? The exact reason why more responsible researchers have said that CRISPR is not ready/suitable for use on people? And that the likely result is going to be nasty strains of cancer everywhere in his body
Coining a new term like "Biohacker" is a cheap attempt to re-brand a "crackpot dumbass".
I don't buy into your survivorship bias but I do agree that these people should be free to experiment on themselves.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
We make a hundred or so mutants, in an effort to get a few independent events targetting the single gene we are trying to knock-out or replace. That's a success rate of a few percent if you can do math. That's much more accurate than before, but not accurate enough to be a medical treatment at this stage. We try to get a few independent mutants because of off-target effects (the CRISPR doing something to some other gene), if you have a few independent events, it's much more likely the gene you are testing actually does the thing you think it does. Otherwise, if you can't disprove off-target effects, you haven't actually proven it.
CRISPR is to biology research as Bitcoin is to economics.
Yeah something good may come of it, but there are a lot of people screwing around.
I see no difference between that CEO and the Bitconneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeect guy.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
History is full of those who risked their own life and limb in the pursuit scientific discovery. Those who survive are remembered and credited. Those who did not end up on the yearly Darwin list. As Thomas Dolby once said... SCIENCE!
I've known Josiah since the 90s and I've never seen him in a suit. I'm not sure that he would know how to wear one.
Does their health insurance cover it?
For deadly cancers, China is ahead.
However the success rate is in the order of 10%
If America does not pick up its game, China will be the leader , and American gene startups will be ignored and get no IP monies, as China just says 'we did it first'.
This is trial and error, as educated guesses over a pattern is the science, followed by suck it and see,
However, the experementees will be sorry is the cure causes an autoimmune on another cell or organ type. So China sticks to those with less than 1 year to live.
Ascendance Bio soon fell apart in almost comical fashion. The company's own biohackers -- who created the treatment but who were not being paid -- revolted and the CEO locked himself in a lab.
Who the police end up shooting? The man who barricaded into a closed space, or the zombie and/or pirate -like herd outside?
You know, he's got ballz to be hacking his own code (DNA), right up until they drop off. Personally, I would never attempt this unless there was a computer simulation, coupled with some AI input on the results to make a risk assessment.
I have no doubt in the next 10+ years we'll get there where near anyone can walk into a doctors office and obtain a custom injection to fix whatever DNA ailment there is. The computing and genomic technology has dropped substantially in cost already compared to 20 years ago. But....today is not the day to be toying around with this on yourself. Oh well, there will always be pioneers in any endeavor. I just wish he, and people like him, take better precautions. Too much bad PR could actually put a bad taboo on this tech, much how shoddy Nuclear engineering killed the industry.
Life is not for the lazy.
From TFA: "Though Traywick said that he “felt great” after the injection, it’s only been a day, so it’s unclear what the lasting effects will be. But even biohacker Josiah Zayner, known for his own DIY experiments, told Gizmodo that the event was reckless. 'The idea that any scientist, biohacker or not, has created a cure for a disease with no testing and no data is more ridiculous than believing jet fuel melts steel beams,' Zayner said."
Either you don't have a good grasp of English or you really don't understand science.
There's some funky Darwin Awards around the corner.
Table-ized A.I.
I remember when hacker had one, cool meaning. Shame it died.
Only the most childish would think that adding armed people in an environment where only criminals are allowed to have guns is a bad idea.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm taking bets on how long it'll be until someone inadvertently creates a new genetic disease in some reckless attempt to cure something else.
Also taking lower-odds bets on how long until someone dies of cancer caused by gene modification 'therapy'.
There's no reason to be here to witness this. Death is just a word.
was this herpes treatment made with possum semen by any chance?
and another one still standing.
The tree house had 2 levels, and a “tower” in the branch fork of the big standing tree, with a walkway there, made out of the main roof beam that we stole from a construction side (seriously), and put in the fork.
Due to the structure of the branches of the fallen trees, we were able to make vertical walls out of planks between the upper and lower branch. With slits to shoot out from. The roof above the second level was a big transparent plastic tarp. We actually had music and a radio there, because we ran a cable from some plug outside of the house with an extension cord of surprising length (it was one of those large roll-up ones). We also powered the electrical fence with it. It was inside the moat btw. (And now that I think about it, the cable running to the house could simply have been cut to kill our electricity. ^^)
The moat was originally just a long hole, dug on one side (since the other side was nearly impossible to reach already due to all the raspberry bushes and steep hillside). We had planned to put in stakes too, but didn’t bother when winter approached and the ground, which was mostly clay already, filled with nasty water.
The next summer, my family moved, and so I don't know what happened to it. I hope some kids had fun with it before it was inevitably torn down.
Guess no one read Blood Music by Greg Bear
"I am a computer hacker!"
"What have you hacked?"
"Well, nothing... but I have _tried_!"
"Man-Child Has Child and Finally Grows Up, Cure Does Not Work On President"
I stopped using /. for the first time, when I still had a 6-digit user id starting with 168.... I re-registered a couple of years ago (7-digit id, lower than yours I think), just to notice how degenerated the site had become. I lost the password to that user account too, when my disk died.
Now I barely come here, and frankly, just don’t bother.
This site is merely a zombie shadow of its former self. I was used to 1500+ comments on every story, and up to 60 stories a day, back then. (Remember Slashdotting sites? The cancer that is Reddit didn't even exist back then. It was still actually the site of CowboyNeal and CmdrTaco, and Wil Wheaton was a regular. Also, nobody had bought into the "intellectual property" brainwashing yet. The site strongly opposed everything related to the Content Mafia.)
The downmods I received only serve to back up my argument.
Maybe I stroll by here sometimes, like one goes to the grave of an old love from time to time ...
Do you want Incredible Hulks? Because that's how you get Incredible Hulks.
You never expect irony, do you?
Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
@iyfwrestling
He regrets a not fake publicity stunt which made his workers revolt for unknown reason?
the remaining humans are fleeing to the mountains to escape the hordes of the infected...
Fuck off Ivan with your shitty propaganda
FEAR the Old Blood.
Great comment. I also had a six digit number, but left for a while. Now itâ(TM)s a joke. I come here so infrequently that if I comment itâ(TM)s as a AC. Itâ(TM)s really kind of sad. Anandtechs fall is very similar, and they both started deteriorating the second their founders left.
Since you wanna spout off conservatard talking points, Imma throw one back atcha: There is NOTHING stopping you from not being a pussy and pushing the boundaries yourself. You feel ENTITLED to have the next generation do it for you. Get up off your lazy ass! If you want something, YOU have to work for it. The world doesn't owe you SHIT!
On the other hand, I also know that the explosion of creativity in the phone and network hacking communities helped accelerate the development of IT. Some of the best hackers found work in the legitimate community. My son happens to be one of those people who are in critical need of rapid advances in genetic therapy, CRISPR/Cas-9 being the front runner technique. I've been following the field with a great deal of interest, in hopes that a new break through will come any day. However, as best as I can determine, by the time CRISPR/Cas-9 leads to a proven treatment for Duchennes Musuclar Dystrophy, it will be too late for my son. As of today, he has maybe 10 or 12 years left to live. But, near as I can tell, for him to ever be mobile again, he'd need genetic treatment within the next year or three and there just isn't any chance mainstream medicine is going to release a CRISPR based therapy in that time frame.
So I find myself hoping that, despite the obstacles of lack of formal training and lack of funding, that these guys make some real discoveries and advances.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
There are obvious ethical issues with injecting unproven treatments into others, but, if these people are willing to risk life and limb to cut off potentially *decades* of research time in getting answers for the betterment of all humanity, I think that's quite heroic. Someone *will* end up hurt, but when that day comes, they'll be a hero to me. A genuine hero.
However, what if one of them does crack the case on HIV or Herpes or something like that? What if I could take a single injection that made my metoblism 10% faster, increased muscle mass 10% for absoloutely no risk, once off injection?
If they crack the case on all this stuff, it'll be world changing.
Oh and while I'm at it, did any of the injections work, not work?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmH7tAJ0SfA
"I'll be honest, we're throwin' science at the wall here to see here what sticks. No idea what it'll do. Probably nothing.
Best case scenario, you might get some superpowers. Worst case, some tumors. Which we'll cut out."
(And honestly, no one made a Portal reference already? Really? Oi.)
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
This is just oozing epic levels glory-stunt bullshit.
So glad you didn't say 'hole'.
This is evolution in action.
I'm fine with biohacking onesself. One can hardly sue anyone for malpractice.
Sure people will get hurt. They also die from car accidents, and we let cars exist. People also die from diabetes melitis, HIV, bathtubs, and occasionally peanuts.
Freedom means many things; it can mean not being subject to fussbudgets who want to save people from themselves.
Human experimentation is broken, especially in the US where everyone is completely focused on reducing risk to the experimenter and subjects. We can't move. Even regrowing teeth with stem cells, a process ready to go, will take 12 more years because of the human testing regime the dental experimenter will have to undergo. Millions will die horribly for lack of treatments we cannot even begin to test. For things to move along at a sane rate, volunteers will have to die.
Sure, the insurance companies will have something to say about this. They own us, as they are free to cut one off for any reason. That's another problem.
Well.. yeah.. Velly Intellesting.. but, er..um.. shouldn't the headline actually have something to do with the article, instead of referring to an incidental ..well.. incident?
Or, has STEM truly been taken over by "passionate", "disruptive", Kardashians?