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German Cities Can Ban Diesel Cars, Court Rules (cnet.com)

A German court has ruled that cities in Germany are allowed to enact bans on diesel vehicles, Reuters reports. It's unlikely that bans will magically appear across the country overnight, but not everyone in the country is happy about this decision. From a report: Environmentalists might be happy about the possibility of banning some of the road's dirtiest cars, but owners and right-leaning groups are not. Reuters reports that some politicians believe this decision could disenfranchise a large swath of car owners across the country, many of whom likely can't afford to immediately replace a vehicle.

16 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Forcing electric cars by sinij · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The end goals of these bans is to force all-electric cars, then force everyone on public transit because owning an electric car is at this point harder than internal combustion one.

    It snows heavily for 4+ months of the year where I live. Yet, municipality is converting roads and parking spaces into bike lanes, that are unused and unusable a portion of the year due to snow. To me, this is politically driven insanity.

    1. Re:Forcing electric cars by jareth-0205 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The EU allows social engineering that would have made the Soviets blush? Color me surprised!

      I suppose you're all for burning coal to heat you house also? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      I have to breathe the air that your car expels. Air quality in big cities is awful but of course we can't do anything about that BECAUSE FREEDOM

    2. Re:Forcing electric cars by Brett+Buck · · Score: 2

      That's fascinating. When various Euro-philes were lecturing us dumb ol 'mericans about how unsophisticated we were for not wanting those super-advanced clean diesels, you knew you were "right", too. We happened to notice that the rear end of every diesel Mercedes and Volkswagen were typically caked with soot, and decided to buy nice clean Hondas and a never-ending parade of Priuses. All without anyone "banning" anything.

            And in any case, why do you think the governments need to tell you not to crap up your own living spaces? Could you not figure it out yourself and adapt without compelling everyone else do to do the same by force of arms? And the Euros want to call *us* stupid?

              Do you have any more arguments for unthinking and unaccountable centralized control? Or is that the best you have?

    3. Re:Forcing electric cars by sinij · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's nothing stopping you from cycling in the snow. Get some decent tires a good jacket and go for it. According to you you'll have an entire lane to yourself.

      There are many things that stopping me: a. lack of a death wish, b. aversion to misery, c. gainful employment with standards on tardiness and appearance.

    4. Re:Forcing electric cars by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      There's nothing stopping you from cycling in the snow. Get some decent tires a good jacket and go for it. According to you you'll have an entire lane to yourself.

      There are many things that stopping me: a. lack of a death wish, b. aversion to misery, c. gainful employment with standards on tardiness and appearance.

      Well to address that:

      a. You just said you have your own bikelanes.
      b. Exercise releases endorphins. You should try it. Know what is miserable? Being stuck in traffic.
      c. I'm not sure why that is relevant. Cycle in your suit, it worked just fine when I didn't have a shower at work. ... which I do, so now I just get changed when I get to work. If you can't keep up appearance with a bicycle, you're doing it wrong.

  2. Fine by PPH · · Score: 2

    No food for you!

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  3. Not really surprising by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

    Germany has a civil law system. Judges merely interpret the law as written, they do not set precedents. Unless there's some German national law specifically prohibiting the banning of previously sold products, there's not much a German judge can do to block a legislature from passing such a ban - the legislative body holds ultimate power. It's not like a common law system where previous court decisions about ownership rights, resale rights, and prohibitions on ex-post facto laws would come into play because they're similar, even if they didn't specifically mention banning a previously sold product.

  4. How dare they by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    how dare they spend money on snow removal equipment that's only used 4+ months of the year. It's a conspiracy, I tell you.

  5. Phase In? by b0bby · · Score: 2

    It would seem likely that any bans could easily be phased in with warnings - for example, this small area will be off limits next year, a larger area the year after, etc.

    This would give most people who both need to drive in those areas and have a diesel to try to sell/exchange their car. I realize that this would probably cause problems for some people, but so does nitrogen oxide which seems to be over the EU limits in a bunch of urban areas in Germany.

  6. Morons by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Building a new car is more polluting than the running an old car, and the economic activity required to afford that new car also burns more energy, with its pollution, than the car will save.

    Cars will move to electrics pretty soon now - as the old fleet ages out the electric replacements will be too cost-effective to not buy - only gearheads will still want liquid fuel vehicles.

    But in the meantime, some wealthy politicians and their wealthy friends can ban the cars that their staff people drive (because the wealthy people don't pay them enough) so that they don't have to breathe their "poor-people" pollution. The politicians will hide behind the fig leaf of environmentalism because just enough people aren't educated enough to call them on their ruling-class bullshit.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Morons by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Building a new car is more polluting than the running an old car

      In total? Mostly true. Inside the city limits? Not so much. People who live in the city have to breathe the air and limiting the amount of pollution that they're allowed to emit into the air that everyone has to breathe will improve the air quality for everyone. It may increase pollution where the cars are made, but that's a separate regulatory issue.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Morons by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Building a new car is more polluting than the running an old car

      Polluting where? Building a new car doesn't cause NOx and particulate matter to be spewed into the middle of a dense population centre. Oh and the construction and assembly of a car accounts for less than 15% of the emissions over a 5 year life. It gets paid back very quickly.

      No your black smoke belching beater is not doing yourself, the environment, or anyone around you any favours.

    3. Re:Morons by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

      This was in response to VW faking their exhaust emissions. These cities were wondering where all the pollution was coming from, since all the cars tested clean. Now they know that they all fail emission standards. The only way to solve the problem is ban the cars. The owners need to sue VW.

  7. Good ruling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your right to pollute ends at the tip of my nose. If you want to drive a POS that generates choking, unhealthy pollution, move to a city or country that is willing to tolerate it. I'm not, and many like me are not.

  8. Re:Crapping up somebody else's living space by sinij · · Score: 2

    The point is that diesel cars crap up other people's living spaces.

    This is an emotional knee-jerk (and diesel has PR problem). Modern internal combustion engines (diesel or otherwise) are not significant source of pollution when emission control equipment is functioning as intended.

  9. Clean Diesel by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 2

    Diesel cars have far worse levels of local pollution generated. Modern petrol cars generate CO2 but the exhaust is extremely clean.

    One important distinction here is in the type of regulation. If any ban is as simple as the summary suggests--diesel-based vehicles are to be prohibited--then it's a bad regulation.

    The reason is the distinction is between rule-based and standards-based regulations.

    Bottom-line: any city that passes a rule to this effect should make clear that if someone designs a diesel engine with extremely clean exhaust, (or perhaps even if it can show lower total lifetime emissions for a vehicle) it can still be used.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++