Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Modders Get Intel's Coffee Lake CPUs To Run On Incompatible Motherboards (pcgamer.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the do-it-yourself dept.

Paul Lilly reports via PC Gamer: It took some time and a whole lot of tweaking, but modders have finally figured out a way to get Intel's Coffee Lake processors running on older motherboards based on Intel's Z270 and Z170 chipsets. Even though Coffee Lake is pin compatible with older LGA 1151 motherboards, the official word from Intel is that the power requirements differ, and as such Coffee Lake only works in newer motherboards based on Intel's Z370 chipset. [T]here is a forum post on Overclock.net that outlines how it can be done. It is a fairly involved process and specific to ASRock motherboards, which the modders claim "have proven to work well" with the steps that are outlined. In short, getting a Coffee Lake processor to run in an older motherboard requires making tweaks to the CPU's microcode, the iGPU's UEFI GOP driver, and some Management Engine bootstraps. The modders were able to get a Core i3-8300 processor to boot in a couple of older boards, but not a Core i7-8700 chip. That is a higher core chip, of course -- six cores instead of four -- which seems to suggest that the power issue is related to driving higher core counts.

83 comments

  1. i7-8700 by vux984 · · Score: 3

    Kudos to the modders for making the i3 series even work; that's a pretty cool feat on a technical level.

    But I've got a i7 8700K; and I can't really imagine even wanting to hack it into an older motherboard... under any circumstances.

    Its sort of like figuring out how to install an american v8 into a Porsche 911. There's modders who do that... but I can't fathom why.

    1. Re:i7-8700 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      .. because the Porsche engines have a defect (the IMS bearing) that can destroy the engine at basically any time. A Porsche with a blown engine is cheap, and a GM V8 is also cheap, not to mention that it makes more power and weighs less than the original Porsche engine (though the GM motor's center of gravity might be a bit higher).

    2. Re:i7-8700 by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Because who else has a Porsche running an American V8? Some people just like to tinker. Some do it with code, some 3d print drones, some build weird cars. These people are all cool as fuck.

    3. Re:i7-8700 by Khyber · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhh, AC being modded down for a correct answer to "I can't fathom why Porsche owners throw a non-Porsche V8 into it" is bullshit, oh ye idiots with mod points.

      Porsche had to settle a lawsuit regarding their shit IMS bearings, and it settled in 2013.

      Fuckwit mods.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    4. Re:i7-8700 by EETech1 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Yeah like a Corvette crate motor wouldn't be the best thing to happen to that piece of junk.

      Disclaimer: I worked for a Porsche collector, and I put a 700 hp 502 engine in his.

    5. Re:i7-8700 by Bearhouse · · Score: 2

      Engines with the replaced IMS are usually fine, (and it's not too hard or expensive to do; but do it BEFORE it fails...)
      Otherwise your're pretty much right; but note sticking in that Corvette V8 is not as easy and cheap as the people who sell the kits make out.
      And...the kits are far from complete - you'll still need to buy a ton of stuff.
      Finally, after all that work, you end up with a Porsche with questionable resale.
      But....a lot of fun!

      Ah yes; make sure you get the LS (Corvette, Camaro) version not the LQ (used in truck). Latter has Fe block, not Au.

    6. Re:i7-8700 by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Monster Miata! nuff said

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re: i7-8700 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boss hoss, more nuff said.

    8. Re: i7-8700 by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      but I can't fathom why

      Usually because Force equals Mass times Acceleration.

    9. Re:i7-8700 by Jimbo+God+of+Unix · · Score: 1

      > Latter has Fe block, not Au.

      Gold (Au)? Aluminum (Al)

    10. Re: i7-8700 by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      It's not due to weight: I run an aluminum smallblock V8 from GM and I bet it's at least as heavy as any flat-six ever made by Porsche; the iron block V8's that most modders are likely to use are even heavier.

    11. Re: i7-8700 by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Too small of an engine compartment and more importantly, you'd kill one of the Miata's biggest strengths which is its excellent front-to-rear weight distribution. Better to go with a smaller engine and turbo the shit out of it...

    12. Re: i7-8700 by Type44Q · · Score: 1
      These were some interesting swaps that were occasionally done back in the day:

      Volvo 740 with Ford 302 (or 351C)

      Porsche 914 with Chevy 350

      Porsche 924/944 with Buick Grand National 3.8liter twin-turbo V6

      Audi 200 with Chevy 454

    13. Re: i7-8700 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Power to weight ratio would be insane on Monster Miata! You have all that torque throughout the RPM range, mainly at the low end. You could probably roll from a stop in 3rd gear alone, though I doubt the clutch wouldn't be too happy about it long term lol.

    14. Re: i7-8700 by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Because who else has a Porsche running an American V8?

      Trust me, American V8's aren't that cool to a Porsche or Audi nut. From Wikipedia:

      The first motorcar in the world to have an engine with two overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder was the 1912 Peugeot L76 Grand Prix race car designed by Ernest Henry.

      My latest-gen all-aluminum General Motors V8 (with direct injection, variable valve-timing and cylinder deactivation)? It's a fucking pushrod engine with two valves per cylinder, which has been largely obsolete for how long?

      Even Ford finally abandoned the pushrod engine...

    15. Re:i7-8700 by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Not offtopic when responding directly to something related to the topic.

      Looks like the millennials have mod points, since they're the ones that tend to fail at understanding basic conversation.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    16. Re:i7-8700 by dave420 · · Score: 1

      If you laid off the generalisations you might have a better time talking to others.

    17. Re: i7-8700 by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      If you're going to run forced induction, you want iron.

    18. Re: i7-8700 by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      ...crude, heavy, inefficient, obsolete tech: often the perfect solution to a problem (in this case the problem of not having enough torque). :)

    19. Re:i7-8700 by vux984 · · Score: 1

      ".. because the Porsche engines have a defect (the IMS bearing) that can destroy the engine at basically any time"

      Replacing the IMS bearing is cheaper than putting a V8 into it. But I concede that if you've already blown the 911 engine... that it might be a cheaper way of putting what is left back on the road... although replacing it with a 911 engine with a fixed IMS would actually increase its value vs forever turn it into a worthless frankenstein.

    20. Re:i7-8700 by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I can generalize my generation all I want - I live among them, I (unfortunately) interact with them, I see them way more often than you. I know their behaviors and quirks.

      Statistically speaking, I will be correct.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    21. Re: i7-8700 by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      .often the perfect solution to a problem... of not having enough torque

      is an electric motor.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    22. Re:i7-8700 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yaaaaay well said. I have been posting here only as AC ever since I decided mod points were no longer meritorious.

      Why log in to see how much a small group of OTT biased people disagree with your reasoning?

    23. Re:i7-8700 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found another one who forgets their youth. Do you remember what they said about GenX?

    24. Re:i7-8700 by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      There's modders who do that... but I can't fathom why.

      Back in the day we used to upgrade our microprocessors, leaving everything else as-is. AMD fans used to brag about this being a great reason to not use Intel.

      When those Celerons hit $75, it might well be worth it.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  2. why? by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

    I know playing and hacking tech for fun is a thing. But really why even bother trying this? it isn't like the motherboard is the most expensive component when doing an upgrade. Surely their are better projects to waste ones time on?

    1. Re:why? by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know playing and hacking tech for fun is a thing. But really why even bother trying this?... Surely their are better projects to waste ones time on?

      Getting Linux to run on a toaster is of questionable value when a Raspberry PI is so inexpensive, but people still want to do it.

      It's called a hobby.

    2. Re:why? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      It’s not how I’d choose to spend my own free time; but if this is what they enjoy doing - then more power to them.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's like chess or football: it's a game that some people enjoy participating in and others enjoy watching, and that makes still others like yourself sit back, scratch your head and ask "why are you doing that?".

      When you start asking "why bother" keep in mind that ultimately practically everything comes down to "because it's fun" (eg this, apparently), "because not doing it leads to not-fun" (work, looking after your health) and "because the laws of physics as applied to my brain/body system made me" (and possibly "because deity said to" if you're that way inclined... which raises the question of "why should I care", the answer to which again reduces to the fun/not-fun divide).

    4. Re: why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they want to use those extra cores then yes more power is definitely what they need.

    5. Re: why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any activity that doesn't result in an increased chance at sex and reproduction is wrong! Kill all the non 100% productive members of society! Kill all the slashdot posters! Blood is the only solution!

    6. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because Intel lied about their processors and chipsets in order to force adoption of newer, expensive motherboards that you don't need. And these folks proved it.

    7. Re:why? by sg_oneill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its a hobby.

      It also shows up Intel as kind of being full of shit and intentionally going out their way to stop people simply doing a chip-swap upgrade to foist unnecessary MB upgrades. If you read the original discussion thread on the overclock forum, it appears intel has been a bit deceptive about pin outs in order to discourage people working this out.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    8. Re: why? by freeze128 · · Score: 4, Funny

      What are you talking about? Chicks really dig it when you hack an old motherboard to support a late-model CPU.

    9. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a fair point. I may not change anything, not even peoples minds, but it does remind everyone that Intel will lie to sell product.

    10. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except this hack doesn't prove it, not yet anyhow. It's a very involved process (to the point one might excuse Intel for not trying), the result isn't clearly stable (did this hack survive a benchmark program?) and one might argue that the modders are relying on extra capacity in the ASRock motherboard that doesn't exist in the general case.

    11. Re:why? by Bohnanza · · Score: 1

      It is a hobby. Why it is considered NEWS is another matter.

      --

      -----

      Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.

    12. Re: why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [quote]It is a hobby. Why it is considered NEWS is another matter.[/quote] ...for nerds:

    13. Re: why? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      Windows licensing. Officially, new mobo + new CPU == new computer that requires a new OEM Windows license. Old mobo + new CPU == same computer, as long as you reboot it into full stability at least once before (and between) changing the video card & boot drive.

      So, it's not *just* $100-200 for a new mobo... it's $100-200 for a new mobo PLUS ~$89-189 for a new Windows license.

      For a home user, it's probably moot... Microsoft will let you voice-authorize the serial quite a few times before saying "no"... but for a business large enough to have actual IT staff, license violations are a Big Deal.

    14. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, for many of us it is a fiscal reality. For some of us, just moving from whatever we were on to z270 was a massive financial deal. MOBO, CPU, DDR4 RAM. Add SSD in to get any real speed-value and a $USD900 investment is a big deal - especially if you skimped on the CPU to get the best otherwise.

    15. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah bullshit. this is such an involved process that you would be spending far more than 900 and not getting anything that is stable or reliable.

    16. Re:why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it doesn't prove it at all, if anything it proves they are right. you can't run the new CPU's with any stability as only the very low end ones can even run at all and the process to make this work is so involved that it simply isn't realistic.

    17. Re: why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for a business large enough to have actual IT staff they won't be using fucking OEM licenses and certainly won't be willing to spend $1000's of dollars of staff time to save $50-$100 and lose all official support in the process.. The will have a volume licensing agreement.

  3. Oh this is bad... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    Congrats, btw. But this is so bad. Intel is so stressed out at the moment from Spectre and Meltdown, and now this mess is being thrown upon them. There may just well be an actual meltdown in Intel Corp HQ.....

    1. Re:Oh this is bad... by Mouldy · · Score: 1

      This isn't really a mess for Intel. This hack isn't for the faint hearted. Even the most seasoned PC-builders will not want to attempt to do this. They're not going to see their motherboard/chipset sales plummet because now all their customers are keeping their old motherboards.

      I think a couple of things will happen at Intel in the wake of this;
      The engineers at intel are probably just saying "huh, neat" or "I told you so"
      The lawyers will be checking they're not liable for a 'planned obsolescence' kind of issue by forcing people upgrade to newer chipsets (hint, they're not, just because it can work with an old chipset on a specific ASRock board doesn't mean it works properly)

    2. Re:Oh this is bad... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "This isn't really a mess for Intel"

      This demonstrates that their entire bootchain is essentially compromised. It won't be too long before someone figures out how to automate this process and make it a distributable package with options to select your chipset and motherboard vendor.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:Oh this is bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't see it say anywhere that security features were enabled.
      Seems pretty obvious that if you change the microcode then you can get the CPU to do almost anything.

    4. Re:Oh this is bad... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      I may not know an Intel coffee lake from an EU milk lake, but my question is this:

      Intel MIGHT be forced to offer a replacement for Coffee lake chips without the Meltdown feature, and if these could be plugged into older motherboards, could some of us be happy to plug in a (paid) replacement from Intel into our old mobos, rather than resort to good old lynchings?

      There may be other reasons for lynching Intel CxOs, I am not in a position to comment on that either.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  4. Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osSMJRyxG0k

  5. So how many ways from Sunday are they screwed????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given the microcode, ME, and other lowest level firmware bits are normally signed and cannot be altered, how many violations of the DMCA are we looking at here? I'm honestly curious given how much effort is put into keeping us out of our own property.

  6. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you save $200 with $5000 worth of equipment and knowledge and time?

    Good for you? I guess?

    1. Re:Wow by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      You should judge school talent shows.

  7. Where are the benchmarks? by fragMasterFlash · · Score: 0

    Could you atleast attempt to prove that this mod is a worthwhile effort by posting some benchmark scores. I'm guessing these systems aren't stable enough to run most benchmarking suites reliably and even if they do the scores won't be much better than the same class of chip that Intel spec'd for that generation of motherboard.

    1. Re:Where are the benchmarks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the benchmarks would be bad. The only real value here is that intel changed their i3 from a 2-core processor to a 4-core processor between kaby and coffee lake. We're talking about the choice of paying i5 prices for a budget 4 core CPU or i3 prices for a slightly worse 4 core CPU (theoretically the same but worse due to binning).

      This is somewhat moot, since all the people doing this likely had their 170/270 boards and a 6/7 gen processor already so whatever edge they got wouldn't be worth it per dollar.

  8. Out of necessity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well this is the one time the ME (Management Engine) is good for something.

  9. meltdown by stooo · · Score: 0

    >> "have proven to work well" with the steps that are outlined.
    "Work well" implies that they patched meltdown and spectre, and that it's slow as crawl.
    Intel processors, by defective design, cannot work well any more.

    --
    aaaaaaa
  10. modern chicks by stooo · · Score: 2

    That's the modern kind of chicks I like ;)

    --
    aaaaaaa
  11. Hey Intel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stuff like this will drive us to Ryzen

  12. Who is buying new Intel anything right now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who would buy flawed hardware from Intel at this point when new chips that supposedly fix meltdown issue are supposedly only months away?

    If I were in the market for new hardware right now I would seriously be looking to AMD.

    Personally starting to get tired of Intel's antics.

    - Failing to own up to Meltdown and false equivalences
    - ECC not available on normal non-xenon processors
    - Having to fuck with inf files to get "desktop" chipsets to work on server versions of Windows
    - Management engine comparatively nobody uses yet everyone gets to suffer thru vulnerabilities.
    - Stunts like TFA

    1. Re:Who is buying new Intel anything right now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who would buy flawed hardware from Intel at this point

      Average consumers, believe it or not.

      Last week, my mother called me for advice on purchasing a new notebook for her new consulting business. I tried to steer her towards an AMD offering, explaining the recent Meltdown/Spectre fiasco while acknowledging AMD also suffered from some of the vulnerabilities, but nowhere near as badly or as deceptively handled as Intel.

      She then informed me she'd been talking to the Head of IT at a business she worked at prior to going in to consulting, who suggested an Intel notebook. I don't recall the brand.

      And that was that, Intel it was. The average, non-tech oriented person simply cannot grasp the seriousness of Meltdown/Spectre.

      You can lead a user to a conclusion, but you cannot make it think.

    2. Re: Who is buying new Intel anything right now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, your mother ignored her sons advice, and instead took the advice of a stranger/acquaintance from work? I'd say that is a failure on your mothers part. Not AMDs.

  13. But how stable is it really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure I would waste so much time getting a core i3 to work on a older motherboard? Maybe a core i7 which could save you some money not having to buy a new board. I guess some like a challenge, but for a core i3 ?

  14. Re:Q: Hardcore satanist HRC EAT A CHILD video comi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FOAD already

  15. Re: AC Gets First Post On Slowly Dying Platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would solve nothing you imbecile. Ip blocks only work where ips are static and non changeable.

    Home users, mobile users, even most small businesses are using dynamic Ips

  16. Just buy a board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean come on. There are plenty of things modders and hackers can work on that actually have a lot of value. But this? Just buy a new board and move on already.

  17. TFS and TFA are misleading. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

    The forum post gets it right.

    They cannot and did not make tweaks to the microcode. They took the coffee lake microcode blob from Intel and put it into the older gen board. So that board was presenting the right microcode for the CPU.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  18. Windows license tied to motherboard by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    So you can upgrade your processor without having to pay for a new Windows license?

    On the other hand, and with respect to some members of The Hacker Community, Windows license, what's that?

  19. Re: AC Gets First Post On Slowly Dying Platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No shit Sherlock, from a small /24 or /23 pool. Kline the whole subnet for repeat offenders.

  20. Re:So how many ways from Sunday are they screwed?? by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    DCMA is not applicable outside the USA, where most hackers live (indeed, where most of the world's population lives).

    You have the right to arm bears, we have the right to mod our computers.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII