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'Women At Microsoft Are Sexualized By Their Male Managers,' Lawsuit Alleges (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: According to a newly unsealed court filing, women at Microsoft who work in technical jobs filed 238 internal complaints pertaining to gender discrimination or sexual harassment from 2010 through 2016. The new document was first reported Monday evening by Reuters. The figures were revealed as part of a proposed class-action lawsuit originally filed in 2015 (Moussouris v. Microsoft). The female plaintiffs argue that the company's internal rating system discriminates against women and disfavors professional advancement for women.

As part of the class certification process and civil discovery, Microsoft handed over years of records to the plaintiffs' lawyers. In the Monday-released filing, which was originally submitted to the court in October 2017, Moussouris' lawyer, Michael Subit, wrote that "Microsoft's Culture is Rife with Sexual Harassment" before continuing: "Company records indicate that women at Microsoft are sexualized by their male managers and coworkers, leading to a substantial number of incidents of alleged sexual harassment, and even several incidents of sexual assault, that often go unpunished." Specifically, Subit continued, Microsoft's internal unit (known as "ERIT") received 108 complaints of sexual harassment filed by female US-based technical employees, 119 complaints of gender discrimination, eight complaints of retaliation, and three complaints of pregnancy discrimination. Out of all of the claimed instances of gender discrimination, Microsoft's internal investigation only found that one such complaint was "founded."

29 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. not to worry by nimbius · · Score: 5, Funny

    the fastest way to get microsoft to correct their sexist and discriminatory behavior is to inform them Google or Apple have created a cloud-based system of equality that operates as a SAAS/FAAS service with integrated tenant metering and billing.

    once thats done, all you need to do is wait 4 years for Microsoft to unveil their much less popular version of the same thing and viola! you've eliminated up to 40% of the sexism and somehow managed to introduce a misandric version of Clippy....

    --
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  2. Rife? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Insightful

    238 complaints is, based on Microsofts current employee count of around 124,000, one complaint per 521 employees. Over a 6 year period. While a zero rate would be nice, I don't think that's too bad either.

    Plus we seem to be getting to that stage where some people consider allegations to be enough that action simply has to be taken, screw the investigation and screw the evidence. An allegation has been made, so punishment must be enacted.

    While a world where women are considered a lesser species is certainly a world that needs to be eliminated, a world where mere allegations are enough is not the world we should be aiming to replace it with.

    1. Re:Rife? by quantaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      238 complaints is, based on Microsofts current employee count of around 124,000, one complaint per 521 employees. Over a 6 year period. While a zero rate would be nice, I don't think that's too bad either.

      Plus we seem to be getting to that stage where some people consider allegations to be enough that action simply has to be taken, screw the investigation and screw the evidence. An allegation has been made, so punishment must be enacted.

      While a world where women are considered a lesser species is certainly a world that needs to be eliminated, a world where mere allegations are enough is not the world we should be aiming to replace it with.

      The number seems low but 1/119 (or 238, I'm not confident how we're supposed to read the number) seems lower.

      I suspect the vast majority of problems go unreported even when management is responsive. And if there's a perception that management is burying problems then women are going to be even more reluctant to come forward.

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    2. Re:Rife? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Those are complaints that were recorded, and not to mention all those who were to afraid to complain to begin with... see the Iowa legislature for a recent example of people in power not getting in trouble for being a*holes.

    3. Re:Rife? by the_skywise · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suspect the complaint isn't that there were so FEW reports - but that out of the 238 complaints only 1(?) was considered actionable.

    4. Re:Rife? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its the same issue - 238 complaints were made, therefore 238 complaints *have* to be acted upon regardless of evidence and damn you if you dismiss them.

      237 complaints were dismissed - is there any evidence that they were incorrectly dismissed?

    5. Re:Rife? by hey! · · Score: 2

      Really the summary is talking about two things: what I agree is a rather low rate of accusations submitted to the particular unit in question (is that they only way they are handled?), and allegation of a culture which condones sexual harassment, without any evidence offered.

      That second issue might well be real. I don't know, somebody ought to look into it. I'm a numbers guy myself, but that also means that I understand that numbers are only as good as the system you have for collecting them.

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    6. Re:Rife? by Solandri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect the vast majority of problems go unreported even when management is responsive.

      Why are we basing this on number of complaints? Anyone can file a complaint. One person with an overactive imagination can file multiple complaints without merit. The stat is already skewed far in favor of exaggerating the scope of the problem, and you're proposing skewing it even more. I thought one of the basic premises of our society was innocent until proven guilty?

      If you truly want to gauge the scope of the problem, the number you should be looking at is the number of unique persons who were investigated and found to have committed sexual harassment. That eliminates the complaints found to be without merit. And it eliminates multiple complaints against a single individual. So the problem is likely much smaller than one complaint per 521 employees.

      Even if 100% of the complaints are legit, the actual problem is probably on the order of one individual being complained against per 2000-5000 employees. If you base it on the number of accusers Bill Cosby has, the problem ends up being one individual in 15,000. Meaning of Microsoft's employee count of 124,000, there are probably only 8 individuals guilty of sexual harassment. And if 9 out of 10 people experiencing harassment don't report it, that still means it's being perpetrated by fewer than 100 individuals. The other 99.9% are innocent.

    7. Re:Rife? by quantaman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I suspect the vast majority of problems go unreported even when management is responsive.

      Why are we basing this on number of complaints? Anyone can file a complaint. One person with an overactive imagination can file multiple complaints without merit. The stat is already skewed far in favor of exaggerating the scope of the problem, and you're proposing skewing it even more. I thought one of the basic premises of our society was innocent until proven guilty?

      If you truly want to gauge the scope of the problem, the number you should be looking at is the number of unique persons who were investigated and found to have committed sexual harassment. That eliminates the complaints found to be without merit. And it eliminates multiple complaints against a single individual. So the problem is likely much smaller than one complaint per 521 employees.

      Even if 100% of the complaints are legit, the actual problem is probably on the order of one individual being complained against per 2000-5000 employees. If you base it on the number of accusers Bill Cosby has, the problem ends up being one individual in 15,000. Meaning of Microsoft's employee count of 124,000, there are probably only 8 individuals guilty of sexual harassment. And if 9 out of 10 people experiencing harassment don't report it, that still means it's being perpetrated by fewer than 100 individuals. The other 99.9% are innocent.

      You math.... strangely.

      Lets just look at Bill Cosby for a moment, he raped dozens of women. And the vast majority of victims didn't come forward until decades later when everyone else started coming forward. If rape victims weren't reporting you think victims of sexual harassment are? If you were a woman being sexually harassed at work don't you think your first instinct would be to tough it out and not cause a scene?

      It's the pattern that shows up with the majority of the #MeToo cases, one or two women come forward and then half a dozen more suddenly pop up to credibly corroborate their story. And in most of those cases I suspect there's a ton more who never come forward.

      It's not surprising when you think about it, would you really want to call up a reporter to talk about getting sexually harassed? Would you want to risk having your name thrown all over the internet as a victim of sexual harassment?

      So yes, most workplaces have a lot more than 1 sexual harasser in 521 employees, they probably have a lot more than 0.1% of employees harassing. The question with Microsoft isn't whether this is the tip of the iceberg, because it most certainly is. The question is whether their iceberg is unusually large compared to any other organization.

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      I stole this Sig
    8. Re:Rife? by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ohh you slippery PR=B$er. M$ does not have 124,000 managers and no Untermensch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... The majority of that number, by far the majority of that number are not managers. So the number you need to compare is 236 complaints against the total number of managers only. Not the numbers of untermensch, some of which, the bravest complain about the abuses of the Ãoebermensch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... Those words are appropriate because it is definitely the way US corporations and the government they control have gone but the widerstand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... is growing, can you be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re:Rife? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "So yes, most workplaces have a lot more than 1 sexual harasser in 521 employees,"

      I see you subscribe to the Anita Sarkeesian theory of "Everything is sexist."

      The majority of #metoo cases, as far as I'm aware, have no evidence whatsoever. So the dozen who pop up suddenly to corroborate the story aren't really proving anything, they're just agreeing. A suprious claim corroborated by 10 other spurious claims doesn't make it truth.

  3. Re: First poster to mention SJW gets smacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Its interesting that these same men feel threatened when a woman gets a chance to retaliate against unfair treatment."

    It is also interesting that anything less than preferential treatment is "discrimination" to feminists/sjw's.

    When even a false accusation can ruin your life, career, etc- of course men will pushback against this stuff. That goes double when there are ZERO consequences for knowingly filing a false complaint.

  4. Idiots make thigns worse by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have attended sexual harassment classes. They almost always make things worse.

    The typical problem is described by the words "sexualized their male managers".

    It indicates a huge abuse of the english language, and makes sexual harassment MORE likely, not less. A literal explanation of the meaning is "make sexual". That's simply not true - the men are not taking asexual creatures and making them more sexual.

    Instead, the author is trying to say that the men have no respect for the women and are sexually harassing them. But instead of taking the time to say it clearly, they take a shortcut. But the short cut sounds STUPID to the target market. The evil men do not think their behavior is inappropriate and when you use this short cut, they do not understand what you are saying.

    It's the liberal equivalent of saying "I have a black friend". It makes the speaker look stupid rather than convincing people of the truth.

    --
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  5. Internal complaints? really? by willoughby · · Score: 2

    If you truly believe you have been the victim of "gender discrimination or sexual harassment" in the workplace there are people you can talk to about that in order to have it investigated and, perhaps, action taken. And these people don't work for Microsoft.

    (EEOC and the Department of Labor, for a start)

    1. Re:Internal complaints? really? by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is really important to keep changing the rules so we can label the women as always in the wrong.

      If they do not go nuclear by hiring a lawyer and getting the feds involved, instead of attempting to work through company channels, we can cast doubt about whether they "truly believe" there is a problem.

      If they do go nuclear, we can just call them disgruntled employers who never really stood up for themselves and tried to work things out like adults fit to live in the real world.

      The women always lose. That is what is important.

    2. Re:Internal complaints? really? by yndrd1984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they do not go... If they do go...

      Well, since it's impossible to please everyone, suggestions on both ends of the spectrum will inevitably be made, and you can use this logic to dismiss all of them as stemming from bigotry. All you have to do is pretend that the same people are making both arguments.

      The women always lose. That is what is important.

      Any statement you don't like is misogynistic. That is what is important.

  6. Re:t!ts and d!cks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The solution is very simple: have a uniform dress code. No makeup, no cleavage.

    Women go through tons makeup every year, have boob jobs, lipo and gym memberships to look good. But once a guy looks, he's sexually harassing her.

    Total bullshit. You wanna look good? Fine, do it outside of the office. You wanna look good in the office? Fine, but don't complain if I enjoy the eye candy.

    And don't get me wrong, if there is actual sexual harassment, the guy should be fired. But I've seen way too many crybabies wearing a wide belt^W^W short skirt, while complaining about male attention in the office.

  7. 40 or fewer a year by LetterRip · · Score: 4, Interesting

    238/6 years is 40 a year.

    Microsoft has 124,000 employees, 25.8% that are women.

    So 31,992 women with 40 complaints a year. so .1% of female employees file a complaint each year. I suspect that is probably less than the industry norm.

  8. Re: First poster to mention SJW gets smacked by Train0987 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And because of that you're going to see a dramatic decrease in the number of women hired in tech.

  9. Re:Women are sexualized by males by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It happens to be hardwired in the male brain and it is the central reason the human race still exist. Expecting anything else is pretty stupid. Now, a decent male is polite about it and a decent female understands and forgives the occasional mistake. Decent people of either sex seem to be getting harder to come by though.

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  10. Re:First poster to mention SJW gets smacked by epyT-R · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I think it's interesting that so many guys like yourself feel threatened when a man questions a woman's accusation.

    Almost like you've got something to prove to women in general. What a shame (about your feeling of impotence).

  11. this surprises someone? by v1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    'Women At Microsoft Are Sexualized By Their Male Managers,' Lawsuit Alleges

    How about we simplify this a bit... "'Women Are Sexualized By Men"

    Focusing on some specific example is really pointless, isn't it? Women eye men, men eye women, that's how it works.

    --
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  12. Re: First poster to mention SJW gets smacked by Calydor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I still think it's a terrible injustice that there are so few female garbage collectors. Where's the feminine outrage that driving garbage trucks is primarily a male-dominated job?

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  13. That would be you by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > First poster to mention SJW gets smacked

    That would be you.

    > Nothing more ridiculous than fat, well-paid white men

    The first person to make a racial comment - also you. The first person to disrepair and insult people based on their gender? You. Just put get it over with an put on your KKK hood already since you clearly have no shame about being a racist and a bigot.

  14. Re: First poster to mention SJW gets smacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think the only significant cause of decreasing women in tech is destruction of the patriarchy (so to speak). The cultures where women are well-represented in tech (like China or India or the US until about 30 years ago) are very patriarchical, where fathers tell their daughters what job to have.

    In more feminist cultures where women get to do whatever they want, it should be no surprise that tech is less attractive to women than it is to men. People have to get used to the idea that when given the choice, people may not always chose what you would prefer.

    dom

  15. Re: t!ts and d!cks by dbialac · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Honestly, this lawsuit has little to no merit. 125000 employees and there are less than 300 complaints in total over 7 calendar years. That's not a systemic problem. It's a greedy lawyer hoping for a settlement... who forgot Bill Gates was at Harvard studying law.

  16. Re: t!ts and d!cks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bullshit. If they're not reported how do you know?

    You make it up. That's how.

  17. Adopt the traffic light system? by Rande · · Score: 2

    The Navy uses (used?) the traffic light system - so if she says 'Yellow light' it means that you are edging on the unacceptable and should tone it down, change topic or whatever as you're making her uncomfortable. 'Red light' means you are being completely unacceptable and you should stop and walk away. And of course, 'Green light' means that your advances are welcome and please proceed.
    Navy Traffic Light System

    Perhaps this would help simplify things as unsocial geeks may not see or understand non-verbal communication that indicates that the other person is uncomfortable with the interaction.

  18. Re: t!ts and d!cks by painandgreed · · Score: 2

    Honestly, this lawsuit has little to no merit. 125000 employees and there are less than 300 complaints in total over 7 calendar years. That's not a systemic problem. It's a greedy lawyer hoping for a settlement... who forgot Bill Gates was at Harvard studying law.

    What it probably is a a few bad managers. Let's face it, half of all managers are below average, and some much more so. Some of those are going to be douchebags. Where it will be Microsoft's problem is if they the issues were reported, and actionalble, but no action was taken.