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New York's Subway Is Slow Because They Slowed Down the Trains After A 1995 Accident
According to the Village Voice, New York City's subway trains are running slower because the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) is deliberately running the trains slower. The Village Voice obtained MTA internal documents, discovering that the decision to run the trains slower was made following a fatal 1995 crash on the Williamsburg Bridge. From the report: The subway's performance has been steadily deteriorating for many years. The authority's own internal data shows that delays due to "incidents," such as broken signals and tracks or water damage, have only marginally increased since 2012. But there is one type of delay that's gotten exponentially worse during that time: a catchall category blandly titled "insufficient capacity, excess dwell, unknown," which captures every delay without an obvious cause. From January 2012 to December 2017, these delays increased by a whopping 1,190 percent -- from 105 per weekday to 1,355. In December, one out of every six trains run across the entire system experienced such a delay. The increase has been steady and uninterrupted over the past six years.
[...]
In 1995, a Manhattan-bound J train crossing the Williamsburg Bridge rear-ended an M train that was stopped on the bridge, killing the J train operator and injuring more than fifty passengers. The National Transportation and Safety Board investigation placed most of the blame on the J train operator, who the NTSB suspected had been asleep. But the NTSB also identified potential issues with the signal system that contributed to the accident, which it found didn't guarantee train operators enough time to apply the emergency brakes even when awake. "They slowed the trains down after the Williamsburg Bridge crash," a veteran train operator who asked not to be identified told the Village Voice. "The MTA said the train was going too fast for the signal system." As a result, the MTA, quite literally, slowed all the trains down, issuing a bulletin informing employees in April 1996 that their propulsion systems would be modified so they could achieve a maximum speed of 40 miles per hour, down from the previous high of 50 to 55 miles per hour on a flat grade. But the MTA didn't stop there, internal documents show. One of the NTSB's safety recommendations was to set speed limits. As a result, the MTA began a still-ongoing process of changing the way many signals work to meet modern safety standards.
[...]
In 1995, a Manhattan-bound J train crossing the Williamsburg Bridge rear-ended an M train that was stopped on the bridge, killing the J train operator and injuring more than fifty passengers. The National Transportation and Safety Board investigation placed most of the blame on the J train operator, who the NTSB suspected had been asleep. But the NTSB also identified potential issues with the signal system that contributed to the accident, which it found didn't guarantee train operators enough time to apply the emergency brakes even when awake. "They slowed the trains down after the Williamsburg Bridge crash," a veteran train operator who asked not to be identified told the Village Voice. "The MTA said the train was going too fast for the signal system." As a result, the MTA, quite literally, slowed all the trains down, issuing a bulletin informing employees in April 1996 that their propulsion systems would be modified so they could achieve a maximum speed of 40 miles per hour, down from the previous high of 50 to 55 miles per hour on a flat grade. But the MTA didn't stop there, internal documents show. One of the NTSB's safety recommendations was to set speed limits. As a result, the MTA began a still-ongoing process of changing the way many signals work to meet modern safety standards.
If their trains are off by even a couple seconds there's an inquiry.
it sounds like the accident merely exposed a flaw in their signaling system. Rather than improve the signaling system (for which there was probably no money, we were 15 years into massive nonstop tax cuts) they did the only logical thing: slow the trains down.
This is yet another symptom of Americans not wanting to spend money (e.g. higher taxes) on infrastructure. The maddening thing is nearly all of those tax cuts went to the top 1%ers. Enough already. They get the best civilization has to offer. Make them pay their bloody God damned dues.
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the ubway can be.
How's the traffic this morning?
On the vast majority of the system, trains won't even hit 40mph. I can only think of a couple spots where a couple trains hit that speed, and even then only for a couple minutes. I can't imagine those spots having trains run 10-15mph slower has any discernible impact.
The obvious answer is that the demand has gone up, and the capacity hasn't met the demand. The headline is bullshit, and the slowness has nothing to do with an accident in 1995.
It's well documented why the trains are slow in NYC, it's because they haven't put enough money back into the system. It's a failure of not maintaining the system that's at fault here, not one incident 23 years ago.
My drive to work is two miles. The maximum speed limit, for about a third of that distance, is 45 mph.
The pay isn't the greatest, but it's really fricking worth it.
This reads like a shocking expose'. But if you have trouble with signalling systems, it makes absolutely perfect sense to slow the trains down until the problem is corrected.
OK, yes, they could be fixing it faster, but this seems like a perfectly responsible choice.
Baby boomers are still in charge of basically everything in the nation.
They've essentially not cared enough to do anything about the state of the nation for a couple of decades.
Gridlock mechanisms have rewarded those preventing any action to fix anything in the nation for about that same amount of time.
So, either no action on crumbling infrastructure, until it becomes SUPER expensive to fix, or else deeply corrupt interests gain control of what little is allowed to be done, that the fixes are meaningless and hyper-expensive.
Why? Because those who are the biggest block of voters are old and disgusted at the thought of helping those who aren't immediately themselves, efficiency and society be damned.
Cars purchased 20 years later -- in 2016 -- have a max speed of 55 mph...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Doubt that ALL cars are limited to 40 mph, maybe some older cars were for a while. Signaling system is another issue/can of worms.
This thread says that cars were capped at 55 mph after the 1995 crash, not 40 mph:
https://www.nyctransitforums.c...
You drive 2 miles? You could cycle that in less than 10 mins, 15 if you don't want to break a sweat. It would also be a very reasonable distance for a public transport system.
How do you know he is able to cycle at all?
Let me guess, New York won't be putting this info on the brochures.
So, what's the impact of the slowdown and delays? I lived in Brooklyn in 2013 and things were pretty smooth and reliable. The only train with any real issues was the G train, aka the Ghost train, because no one ever saw it show up
The option to buy better trains is not going to be supported.
The ability to rework the signal system is not something that could happen.
The trains stay safe and staying slow is the only method that supports that is not a story.
Want a good train? Invest in a great transport system.
The UK, Japan, South Korea, parts of the EU can offer great turn key rail networks for export.
Tunnel design, working air-conditioning, new systems to move a lot of people around faster.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
most people can
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
you're ableism is showing check your privilege
When?
Have gnu, will travel.
... in the 1800s.
Naturally I wouldn't employ that solution in exactly the same way because we have better technology to facilitate the concept, but I would still enact the same concept.
The British system simply made it physically impossible for trains to enter a stretch of track unless the train in front of it or going the other way or whatever had turned in a key. The key was slotted into a signalling box which permitted other trains to enter that track. If the key was NOT turned in then further trains could not physically access that track. The switching station would literally not actuate.
Now, if you did it today, you'd use computers and sensors and encryption... etc... but the concept would be the same. If a train currently holds the "key" for a bit of track then you can't have that key and you can't access that track. You could have the trains automatically brake if they entered track that hadn't been vacated yet... you could turn off the third rail to make it extra fool proof... and you could have the brakes default to an ON state in the event that the third rail was disabled.
Yes yes... engineering problems with what I said. Engineering solutions always have problems... even good engineering solutions.
There are problems with a hydro electric dam and an automobile and a jet aeroplane. The trick is solving those without losing the utility of what you're attempting to do. Point is that this isn't actually that complicated.
The system I conceptualized is damn near foolproof if executed competently. You could have drunk, high, sleeping train operators, going down the track at whatever speed the track/trains can handle, without any crashes into other trains.
Its possible. We can do it.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Why would I care about this?
2 miles is a waking distance, not even cyclinf
I somehow doubt that. Care to state the equation?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Two miles is walking distance!
In fact I often cover 5k on foot by the time I get to the office if Iâ(TM)ve had to get off the Tube so I can call in to an early morning meeting. Doing this or stopping off on my 1 hour bike commute has led me to find some great little nooks, crannies and parks in this city.
With shit-tier infrastructure? Oh BIGLY will be the foreign investments, any day now..
They have over 20,000 KM of high-speed rail, and aiming for 30,000 KM at year 2020 (two years from now)
We could buy some from the Chinese, if they still accept our IOUs
Since they have a job you should assume they aren't a child.
Problem: Signal system does not allow enough time for train operators to complete an emergency stop..
MTA solution: Slow the trains down via imposed speed limits (which may or may not be adhered to).
Elon Musk solution: In a highly cost effective way, update the signal system and train control system.
If we can have autonomous cars that drive on our roadways, why can't we have trains that operate safely on well known pathways?
Answer: Regulatory blunders that seek to improve safety but are too costly or complex to deploy, labor unions that lobby against automation, and the inefficient railroad industry.
So, a mystery partly solved. The local press is all over how bad the system’s gotten the last couple of years -- and as a daily rider, it seems no worse and maybe a little better. So why the crisis talk? It’s apparently (from what I can tell down there) without basis. So the explanation seems to be that it’s documented bullshit.
FEMA Report - The Crash of Two Subway Trains on the Williamsburg Bridge New York City, NY June 5, 1995
COLLISION INVOLVING TWO NEW YORK SUBWAY TRAINS ON THE WILLIAMSBURG BRIDGE JUNE 6 1995; RAR9603 - NTSB
A different incident
RAILROAD ACCIDENT REPORT COLLISION AND DERAILMENT OF TWO SUBWAY TRAINS METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT IN BROOKLYN, NEW YORK, ON FEBRUARY 9, 1995; PB96-916301 NTSB/RAR-96/01
Checked it. It's still where it belongs, but thanks for your concern.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
if you don't want to break a sweat
...says the person who never lived in Texas, where it is 95F (35C) and higher all summer. Conversely, I'm sure it's harder to cycle after a heavy snow.
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Treat some New York City subway engineers and officials to a week in Tokyo, to see how a real subway system is done.
People are always surprised how a government or state-run monopoly, or any other monopolies for that matter, offer bad products, worse services and demand increasingly higher prices.
As if that wasn't *always* the case.
Dear statists, dear do-gooders: All monopolies quickly turn into expensive crap. No laws, new rules, regulations, oversight authorities, governing bodies, ombudsmen, committees will change that. Get that in your head.
Nothing improves services and products except competition. Yes, the state is a monopoly on a lot of things that surprisingly also turn into crap. The same applies there. Build a superstate, have a supermonopoly. Turn over control to the state for X and you will see X turned into expensive crap.
Certainly not. We are talking about NYC — the singular city in the most corrupt State in the nation.
The recent painting of the Brooklyn Bridge costed well more than the original building of the structure did in 1883 (inflation-adjusted, of course).
You expect us, the taxpayers, to willingly give even more money to these people?
MTA should have replaced the sleepy fleshware, whose reactions and ability to communicate with each other are horrible even when they are awake, with computers — driving a train is much simpler for a computer, than driving a car, for example. They were trying to do it in 2005, and still haven't.
Just as with the public schools, it is not about the money...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
You drive 2 miles? You could cycle that in less than 10 mins
I could also run a straight razor carefully over my love spuds each morning... there's good a reason why I don't do that either.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The problem are many with our transportation system. Yet we waste millions on bullet trains in obscure places just for notoriety. Trouble is politicians don't see value in maintaining the basics, they prefer adding something new to brag about while existing infrastructure goes ignored. If you can't maintain what you have don't be talking about adding something new.
And MTA is the uber shit company running outdated 1992 diesels engines but this is nothing train cars are so old that if you take train upstate and you get on the diesel you are in 1970 with nice brown cars shit everywhere, all they do is to just replace all those seats when there is too much shit on them and there she goes again. On top of that they are so slow that lets say ride upstate of 28 miles will take you 45 minutes on express (ignore time tables as those are not real) MTA fuck you!
Have you ever heard of hills and weather? No amount of money could motivate me to ride a bike on a public road. Around here hills are super steep and you won't find a straight section of road except maybe some four lane highways. Also this morning it was 25 degrees. What happens during the summer when its hot and humid? I get to work dripping with sweat?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
college/university teams don't give much to the players hell they don't even get works comp
But only for 23 DAYS not YEARS.
It works in other countries...
A word of caution: Driving a car regularly only 2 miles may not allow enough time for the engine (assuming it's gas powered) to get up to operating temperature, which increaes the risk of shortening it's life-span from the build-up of contaminents in the engine and catalyst. Yay for you on the short commute and if you drive an electric/hybrid, though.
Parking spaces in Manhattan ran ~$500 a month last time I looked, which was two years ago. An unlimited train ticket for the month is $120. I'll let you do the math.
Agreed, though you don't take into account going up the bridge which is much harder work.
The larger problem in NYC is bike parking (well bike theft and vandalism really) and not arriving at work sweaty. The citibike programs solves some of this but they're pretty terrible to ride (by first hand experience) compared to even a slightly decent bike. Not being able to shower at work (space is FAR too tight for almost any but the largest companies to have showers) in a city that still sticks with formal office attire most of the time is pretty difficult too.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
With all the hype with autonomous cars why not autonomous trains?
But performance continues to decrease? Then it's not the speed cap from 23 years ago. That's been constant.
you're ableism is showing check your privilege
Your grammar competency is showing. Check your sentences.
Huh, tell that to the subject of this post:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/06/08/bike-to-work-houston/
Yeah, it's harder to bike after heavy snow, but it doesn't snow every day. You could easily bike 90% of the year and for snow days, pick one: 1. Stay home, 2. Carpool with someone, 3. Take an Uber, 4. Walk, 5. Take the bus, 6. Drive.
Snow is a TERRIBLE excuse to avoid biking. Biking isn't an all-or-nothing prospect.
Hahhahaha, Australian here and daily cyclist commuter, your complaints make me laugh, harden up.
> My drive to work is two miles.
Listen, you are killing yourself. It's not just the risk of obesity, but I assume your work includes sitting in the office, just like you sit in the car. Even an hour a day in the gym cannot offset the slow and inevitable damage that sedentarism causes. Please regularly walk or cycle to move your legs around morning and afternoon, so you may live to 80 or more.
Pedelec i.e. electric auxillary propulsion boosted bicycles are now daily reality with the new Li-Po battery tech and they sell like hot cakes in Europe for commute and leisure. Bosch, Panasonic and Shimano all make battery-motor-control packs which the frame builders can incorporate in fashionable shapes. You can make great speed with them, making only a minimal or comfortable effort as you feel fit, for up to 50 kilometer or even 50 miles.
Furthermore, stamina in the legs is very useful is you have some lady to pleasure.
Until recently you couldn't even vote for a Senator. They were appointed. Like our electoral college the point of the Senate is to preserve the illusion of Democracy without all that messy stuff like people taxing the rich. Hell, the Second Amendment was mostly created because rich folk didn't like paying to quarter troops but they still needed an army to die for them.
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Maybe and that's a good argument. One that might have a lot of bearing on current discussions about civilian weapon ownership. But it wasn't the stated reason!