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Sri Lanka Accuses Facebook of Failing To Control Hate Speech That Contributed To Deadly Riots (theguardian.com)

The Sri Lankan government is accusing Facebook of failing to control rampant hate speech that it says contributed to anti-Muslim riots last week that left three people dead and the country under a state of emergency. The accusations come after the country blocked Facebook and several other platforms last week in an effort to prevent the spread of hate speech. The Guardian reports: On Thursday Fernando, along with the Sri Lankan prime minister, Ranil Wickremesinghe, and communications officials, will meet a Facebook team that has flown to Colombo. The Sri Lankans will demand a new, faster system for taking down posts flagged as a national security risk by agencies in the country. "Facebook is not reacting as fast as we have wanted it to react," Fernando said. "In the past it has taken various number of days to review [flagged posts] or even to take down the pages." On Tuesday he highlighted a tweet from a user who claimed to have reported a Facebook post in the Sinhala language that read "Kill all Muslims, don't even let an infant of the dogs escape." The user claimed he received a reply six days later saying the post did not contravene a specific Facebook community standard. The extremist leader Amith Weerasinghe, who was arrested last week in Kandy after being accused of helping to instigate the violence, had amassed nearly 150,000 followers on his Facebook page before it was taken down last week.

76 comments

  1. Fernando by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Can you hear the drums Fernando
    I remember long ago another starry night like this
    In the firelight Fernando
    You were humming to yourself and softly strumming your guitar
    I could hear the distant drums
    And sounds of bugle calls were coming from afar
    They were closer now Fernando
    Every hour every minute seemed to last eternally
    I was so afraid Fernando
    We were young and full of life and none of us prepared to die
    And I'm not ashamed to say
    The roar of guns and cannons almost made me cry
    There was something in the air that night
    The stars were bright, Fernando
    They were shining there for you and me
    For liberty, Fernando
    Though I never thought that we could lose
    There's no regret
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
    Now we're old and grey Fernando
    And since many years I haven't seen a rifle in your hand
    Can you hear the drums Fernando
    Do you still recall the frightful night we crossed the Rio Grande
    I can see it in your eyes
    How proud you were to fight for freedom in this land
    There was something in the air that night
    The stars were bright, Fernando
    They were shining there for you and me
    For liberty, Fernando
    Though I never thought that we could lose
    There's no regret
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
    There was something in the air that night
    The stars were bright, Fernando
    They were shining there for you and me
    For liberty, Fernando
    Though I never thought that we could lose
    There's no regret
    If I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando
    Yes, if I had to do the same again
    I would, my friend, Fernando

    1. Re:Fernando by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 1

      I believe I speak for everyone here when I say: "What... The... Hell?"

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    2. Re:Fernando by tsqr · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nah, you just speak for yourself. A sizeable group is singing along with Abba.

    3. Re:Fernando by aevan · · Score: 2

      I hate that you're right.

    4. Re: Fernando by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQsjAbZDx-4

  2. Re:Clearly, the only way to fix this by iamhassi · · Score: 0

    Like

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
  3. Facebook's fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As much as facebook deserves all the hate it gets, and as amusing as it is that they are now being held accountable to censorship they never should have started dabbling in, how is a riot facebook's fault? The sri lanka government ought to blame themselves long before they blame facebook for their incompetence

    1. Re:Facebook's fault? by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Why don't they just build a Great Wall of Sri Lanka, if they want to have control of what their "subjects" get to see and hear?

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Facebook's fault? by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      That was supposed to be Great Firewall of Sri Lanka.

      Proofreading and previewing fails hard when posting whilst stoned. :D

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    3. Re:Facebook's fault? by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      At least they are no longer the unfunniest people in the world, so perhaps not absolute complete and total losers at least. :D

      AWK-ward!!!

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    4. Re:Facebook's fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like modern Germany blaming Nazis for the Holocaust while denying that they were actively involved in it.

      There isn't really anyone alive in Germany today that was actively involved in the Holocaust.
      I don't see many Americans today that are willing to take personal responsibility for slavery.

      Also, Hitler was known to respect people of African descent.

      I don't see why you bring that tidbit up or how it in any way is relevant to the discussion.

      It is also blatantly false, his behavior at the Olympics 1936 clearly shows that he had no respect for people of African descent.

    5. Re: Facebook's fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like blaming the phone company or the postal service or the print shop if they were used to distribute the protest flyers.

      But of course, that dosen't stop tyrants from making a big scapegoat out of them!

  4. Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by iamhassi · · Score: 2, Informative

    Facebook has a horrible moderating problem. I was recently ban for posting there now exists a blood test for Down's syndrome that works at 12 weeks so we can rid the world of this horrible mental handicap. Guess someone at facebook wants more mentally handicapped people.

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
  5. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by WilliamGeorge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Have you asked folks with Down's syndrome if they'd prefer to be dead? Or to have never been born? Who are you to judge whether they should be given the chance to live, once conceived?

    Now mind you, I don't think Facebook should have banned you for discussing this. Freedom of speech, the ability to discuss ideas (good or bad), and open dialog about even the hardest subjects is critical to having a free society. I may oppose your view, and I might after a while choose not to listen, but you absolutely should be able to voice it!

    --
    William George
  6. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

    I contest the idea that Downs Syndrome is a "horrible mental handicap". Sounds like IQ supremacy to me.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  7. And not a single post about Islam? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Islam has become such a violent religion, and the moderates don't seem to be doing anything to stop the 10% who are violent, that it's hard to claim that hate speech against them *can* exist.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re: And not a single post about Islam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the moderates don't seem to be doing anything to stop the 10% who are violent

      Maybe if you looked around, you might find it.

    2. Re:And not a single post about Islam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Islam has become such a violent religion, and the moderates don't seem to be doing anything to stop the 10% who are violent, that it's hard to claim that hate speech against them *can* exist.

      Islam have almost 2 billion followers. Try something like 0.001%

      Also, hate speech is a very Americanized expression.
      In most countries that have laws against it it is called something like "Instigation of violence against population" or something similar.
      Typically laws regarding conspiracy to murder requires a specific target to apply so they don't cover the case when someone calls for beating up random people of a large group and it becomes especially tricky when the person calls that group "parasites" in one sentence and make calls about killing "parasites" in another.
      What Americans tend to call "Hate speech"-laws often is laws against conspiracy to murder but without a specified target.

    3. Re:And not a single post about Islam? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Islam has become such a violent religion, and the moderates don't seem to be doing anything to stop the 10% who are violent, that it's hard to claim that hate speech against them *can* exist.

      What? That's nonsense. It's one thing to hate Islam, and it's another thing to hate Muslims. Believe it or not, the two things are actually different. Islam is a sickness of which people can be cured with sufficient education over generations. Muslims are people who have contracted that particular illness.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:And not a single post about Islam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Idiot "According to a survey of 2000 people, 90% of Americans are $DisagreeableThing"

      Me "You can't judge an entire country with 2000 people."

      Idiot "Ummmm sampling is a thing."

      Me "Alright, I'll judge Islam by the 80,000+ ISIS members and the entirety of North Africa."

      Idiot "UMMMMMM UMMMM UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM UMMMMMMMMMM"

    5. Re: And not a single post about Islam? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I have looked around. I see no major attempt to say, rewrite the Koran to remove verses about Jihad like Thomas Jefferson did to the Bible.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:And not a single post about Islam? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about the percentage that actually believe Jihad should be a pillar, or duty, of the religion. That includes some huge populations.

      Still only about 10%.

      As far as instigation of violence against population, you can't get much more hateful than believing all outsiders to your religion, including OTHER SECTS OF YOUR RELIGION, need to be exterminated.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    7. Re:And not a single post about Islam? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I believe it. Interesting metaphor.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    8. Re:And not a single post about Islam? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Need to add Pakistan, Iran, and many former USSR Republics that I can't spell off the top of my head to the list.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  8. Thoughtcrime will not be tolerated! by blokhayev · · Score: 0

    I'm sure De-Facebook will mobilize their Thoughtpolice into action immediately!

  9. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The humor blog Nerds With Vaginas has been taken offline twice because a transsexual allegedly reported it as discriminatory/harassment.

  10. fuckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Its asinine that some people think they have a right to hate speech. You don't, and if you think you do then you have the right of my foot up your ass.

    1. Re:fuckers by DickBreath · · Score: 0, Troll

      Some people (notably BMW drivers) think they have a right to zoom through the carpool lane.

      Some able bodied people (BMW drivers?) think they have a right to park in the handicapped space.

      Point: Entitled people feel they have a right to what they want. If you don't agree with their hate speech, then OMG Censorship! You're a bad person for not hating the same people they hate! Etc.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:fuckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some people just see the carpool fine as a user fee with a really poor billing system. I have a right to drive in the HOV lane, and you have a right to fine me for it. I have a right to pay the fine and keep driving. It's why Ferrari's don't have front plates, and everyone ignores the 65mph speed limit (at least in CA.) /shrug

    3. Re:fuckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post is hate speech. Stay where you are while we dispatch a squad to haul you away for re-education.

    4. Re:fuckers by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      All traffic fines should be tied to last year's tax returns.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  11. Re:Clearly, the only way to fix this by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    Conditional Like. Only if enhanced interrogation is involved.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  12. Re:Facebook's fault? (Jews vs germans) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    > Yes, the Germans lost miserably in two major wars

    Does it occur to you that Germany was solidly winning WW1 but then some jewish bankers and tycoons proposed to Britain that they will get USA involved in the war to turn the tide? In exchange the zionists demanded that UK con the arabs out of their prior promise for a state in the Holy Land, earned by fighting the german-allied ottaman turkish empire. So Lawrence of Arabia was ousted and Rostchild rolled in.

    The ship Lusitania started to smuggle munitions contravening international law and was sunk. Jewish-run media created a frenzy in the USA, leading to declaration of war by the formerly neutral power. In Britain, the Balfour declaration happened. Yet, even with american manpower and zionist money it took a long time and the spanish flu epidemic to topple the central powers of Germany and Austria-Hungary (a.k.a K.u.K.)

    The true might of WW1 german military was clearly shown in the break-through of Caporetto, where the entire italian army fell apart under the strikes of "sturmtruppen" in a matter of a few days, 30% of their manpower went POW, 50% simply defected, took on civilian clothes and walked home. It took a dozen french and british expeditionary divisions to contain the german and K.u.K. advance, Venice very nearly fell.

    As for WW2, the Reich was fighting on 3 fronts, without almost any access to oil and steel-alloying ores, defending against the asian barbarism of genocidal communism in the east and against the zionist lapdog anglo-saxons in the west and the south. Yet americans never managed to break through in the south, even after the italian betrayal. That's because the moral and combat value of german troops was much higher than any other combatant!

    > Hitler was known to respect people of African descent.

    You should watch the 1936 Berlin Summer Olympics medal ceremony and then stop making such stupid claims. (Yeah, that ceremony was televised and footage survives. Even aliens from Sirius have already seen it, according to Jodie Foster's Contact movie.)

    > The Germans are losers. I challenge anyone to prove this claim to be incorrect.

    Them germans certainly won the economy since the end of WW2. Angela "Bundesmutti" Merkel has no nukes, yet each and every world leader is busy kissing her hands, because Germany has the industry, the money and the influence. It is ironic that jews now see their future in teutonic-nietzchean style militarism, while Germany is all about counting money. More or less Merkel is the sow whose tits the piglets, the rest of EU suck for funds. Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles, uber die EU!

  13. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the difference is... ?

  14. To be fair... by bickerdyke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    During the last decades, Sri Lanka didn't need facebook to have bloody riots.

    --
    bickerdyke
    1. Re:To be fair... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Facebook has changed the target from Hindus to Muslims.

  15. Re:Big Internet will be the death of free speech by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    pretty much this 100% =/

  16. So it is Facebook's fault? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The conflict between muslims and buddhists in Sri Lanka or between muslims and hindhus in India or between muslims and christians in the balkans all have centuries long history.

    "This is the bridge where they killed 200 of our folks" "Oh, Thats terrible! I must have missed the news, when did it happen? Your family is safe?". "247 years ago, In three years we are planning a 250th year revenge attacks".

    Something going on for 1000 years or 600 years, and suddenly Facebook is to blame.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:So it is Facebook's fault? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      If some one posts on FB: "lets gather tomorrow and kill all XYZ in town Bla" and FB gets informed to get the post down, and FB does not take the post down and suddenly in Bla you have a riot killing dozens of XYZ, then yes. Facebook is to blame. Just like the rioters.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:So it is Facebook's fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The conflict between muslims and buddhists in Sri Lanka or between muslims and hindhus in India or between muslims and christians in the balkans all have centuries long history

      If we only knew what those conflicts have in common

    3. Re:So it is Facebook's fault? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      "FB gets informed".... Why sudden switch to passive voice buddy?

      You don't want to draw attention to who is asking FB to pull posts down? Is it the police? Can police randomly order FB to take down posts? Or it has to follow the laws of the country? Do they have to get a court order?

      FB did not take down the post. A riot happened. People got killed. Arrest FB executives, charge them with aiding and abetting mass murder, as accessory after the fact, prove in a court and convict them. If the charge wont stick, what the did would be legal.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    4. Re:So it is Facebook's fault? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The FB executives don't reside in Sri Lanka, and the people are already dead.
      So you prefer to act after the riots instead of before them?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:So it is Facebook's fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter who informs Facebook that they are spreading incitement to genocide. What matters is the content of the post, not who brought it to their attention. The flagging could be by an anonymous reader, and if you live in a place where you have to fear for your own safety it makes sense to do it anonymously. If nobody reports it, Facebook can pull the "common carrier" excuse, namely that it's not feasible for them to screen every single post.

  17. Facebook has no business by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 2

    ... controlling speech. Period.

    1. Re:Facebook has no business by mjwx · · Score: 1

      ... controlling speech. Period.

      And Facebook does that how?

      Are the Like police going to arrest me for voicing a contrary opinion... Am I to be thrown in the Poke-y for posting an anti-Facebook comment without even a trial in the News Feed court?

      Or maybe Facebook is a private organisation free to set their own rules and if they dont want you there, they're free to tell you to bugger off which is in no way, in any country, impinging on your freedom of expression.

      If you mean that Facebook has no business "influencing" opinions... then I assume you apply this equally to organisations like Fox News which are far more harmful in not just influencing opinions, but also release false information deliberately disguised as factual reporting.

      But you wont... Your issue with Facebook is that they aren't telling you what you want to hear. That is also, not their problem.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:Facebook has no business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't want the truth. They only want to hear what THEY want to hear.

  18. Re: Facebook's fault? (Jews vs germans) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOLOLOLOLOL

  19. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop being an ableist piece of shit.

    ableist: (adj.) Discrimination in favour of able-bodied people.
    piece of shit: (noun) piece of shit.

  20. Yes, facebook's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course, it's facebook's fault, because they claimed they could do this. How did they claim this? By "taking responsibility" for censoring posts, by having community codes of conduct, by making sure only the happy approved posts got through the moderation. In short, by doing more with posts than host them.

    This is the price: Admit that you can censor, and now world+dog will come a'calling for you to protect their arbitrary sensibilities. So by enforcing your American, nay Californian, say Silly Valley-ian morals on the world, now everyone else wants their morals enforced on the world too. Or at least "their" part of it. And why not? You can do it, so get to it, you slacker.

    Hanlon's razor says that facebook really is that stupid, just like they first claimed they could help win elections, but oh noes the wrong people won so nooo they can't help you and never said so either, really no not at all. And just like they sell you out at the drop of a hat, make self-serving changes to "privacy" settings, forget to tell you about it, and all that, and repeatedly get called on it. They are really that stupid. Or really evil, but stupidity will do. Yes, rich kid and "visionary" teh zuck is really just a fucking idiot. Because if he wasn't, he'd seen long ago that this was coming and would have refrained from taking responsibility for anyone else's "content".

    1. Re: Yes, facebook's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not saying you're wrong but... How much money does Facebook make in Sri Lanka, and do they even care they are blocked there?

    2. Re:Yes, facebook's fault by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      ..but what you are supposed to censor?

      In case of Sri Lanka, do you sensor the things populus wants sensored or the government and then which part of the government?

      furthermore, fuck sri lanka. even if facebook had asked the government if it's okay to bash muslims on facebook the government would have probably said hell yea. it's not that many years they were in an outright civil war with the tamils losing and getting stomped on by the government.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  21. Blame Game plays out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, people are gonna be getting killed, so this is serious. But blaming Facebook is like parents blaming teachers for their child's behaviour. If they're your children then you should be spending more time with them than the school as a whole, let alone an individual teacher. Learn 'em good yerself.
    Likewise, if they're your populace, learn 'em good about constructive thinking and recognising hate speech for what it is.

  22. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are of course right.. we still love people like you.

  23. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While I understand your need to legitimize inbreeding, there are many people who may not want to carry a spore that may one day (if all kinds of other natural things don't happen in the meantime ) may become a human that will then live a life that none of us would wish on anyone. Your, and your sisters children are safe.. but we all don't hold your values.

  24. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I was recently ban". Did you read the above comment about proof reading? Or are you just a Russian troll with a limited grasp of the English language?

  25. Guess they need to ban BLM too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because that leads to deadly riots. But it's OK to riot when you're black, I guess.

  26. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you asked folks with Down's syndrome if they'd prefer to be dead? Or to have never been born? Who are you to judge whether they should be given the chance to live, once conceived?

    It is not an uncommon desire, even among people without Down's syndrome.
    Some even go as far as to kill themselves to correct the issue once their brain have matured enough to comprehend the permanence of death.
    The lack of those functions is one of the reasons why it is unwise to let preteens handle loaded guns, even with proper gun training.

    It is also a very strange argument.
    There are even more people who aren't given the chance to live because of the lack of conception.
    The natural progression of your argument is that it would be the lesser evil to rape any non-pregnant person with child carrying capacity since an unused reproduction system deprives an unconceived person from his/hers potential life.

  27. Kill the Messenger! by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    Always a good idea that solves the problem.

    [/sarcasm]

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  28. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    I contest the idea that Downs Syndrome is a "horrible mental handicap". Sounds like IQ supremacy to me.

    Are you trolling, or did you drink literally all of the kool-aid? Of course it's a mental handicap. Horribleness, of course, is subjective.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  29. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you asked folks with Down's syndrome if they'd prefer to be dead? Or to have never been born?

    You could ask the same of the millions of perfectly healthy babies who were never born because they were an inconvenience to their mother.

  30. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't want the truth.

  31. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by AndyG314 · · Score: 1

    Downs syndrome is a lot more than a mental handicap. Seizers and heart disease occur for about half of all Downs afflicted people, and there are lots of other complications as well. Your idea of somebody with downs is a reasonably lucky person, the unlucky ones don't live long enough, or spend much of their lives in the hospital. More over, do you have any idea what it's like to have a child with Downs? I fault no one who chooses to abort such a child.

    --
    If it's dead, you killed it.
  32. Re: Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think we should be checking for MAOA genes, as those people are far more of a threat to society than anyone with Down's Syndrome.

  33. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by WilliamGeorge · · Score: 1

    You are quite correct! I am opposed to abortion in all forms, save perhaps for when carrying the child is a direct threat to the life of the mother.

    --
    William George
  34. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by WilliamGeorge · · Score: 1

    I suspect I am just feeding a troll here, but where in my post (or the OP before it) did inbreeding come up? Also, I don't have a sister.

    --
    William George
  35. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by WilliamGeorge · · Score: 1

    You are correct that some people decide to take their own lives, but there is a difference between that and making the decision for them (taking someone's life without their consent).

    As for the argument itself, the idea is not that avoiding conception is a problem. If they can screen people for whatever genes contribute to Downs, and inform those people, and they choose not to have kids because of that (to abstain from sex, take birth control, get a vasectomy, etc) then that is fine! The trouble I see is conceiving a child - a new human life, with its own unique DNA, identity, etc - and then choosing to kill it because it has a condition that someone else (society, the parents, or whomever) thinks makes the life not worth living. That choice shouldn't be anyone else's to make.

    --
    William George
  36. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > if they'd prefer to [...] have never been born?
    I'm against "eugenics", but the problem with that view is that an embryo is not a person. The person who is really severely affected by an embryo is the pregnant woman, and she alone should decide whether to go through with the pregnancy or not.
    Are you catholic? Because what your position amounts to is giving the putative offspring a say in whether mom and dad should have fucked without protection or not. That's so absurd that only people who subscribe to "credo quia absurdum" want it.

  37. Re:Really? I was ban for Downs syndrome testing by WilliamGeorge · · Score: 1

    Once conception has taken place, the newly formed human *is* a person. It has its own DNA, different from (but a combination of) its parents. If not killed in the womb, he or she will go on to live their own life - with their own thoughts, opinions, experiences, etc.

    Is that new human life dependent on its mother for several months during development (before birth)? Yes - but it will still be dependent on other, older humans for many years after birth as well. We don't (and shouldn't) allow people to kill their young children just because they no longer want them, and neither should we allow that in the womb.

    Many people say that "its a woman's body, let her decide" - but it isn't. As I pointed out, it is a unique human from the moment the egg and sperm join and combine their DNA. It is *attached* to the mother's body (via the umbilical cord), and resides inside her until birth, but it is not *part* of her body.

    Also, no, I am not a Catholic... though I am a Christian. I have no problem (as Catholics do, I think) with any efforts to prevent conception / fertilization of the egg - condoms, spermicides, etc - so long as they would not interfere with normal development of a human after conception. If you don't want to potentially make a baby when having sex, there are numerous options available with varying degrees of reliability. Failure to use such a method, or the low chance of failure associated with the selected method, does not (in my opinion) give people the right to kill another human - regardless of how far along their physical development is.

    --
    William George