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Verizon Will Fix Broadband Networks, Landlines To Resolve Investigation (vice.com)

Joel Hruska reports via ExtremeTech: Verizon has reached an agreement with the Communications Workers of America and the New York State Public Service Commission to begin repairing infrastructure and restoring service across New York State. The agreement requires Verizon to extend broadband service to tens of thousands of New York State households and to begin repairing facilities it has previously neglected. As in Pennsylvania, Verizon has been neglecting its fixed wired infrastructure in its bid to first sabotage copper service, then force customers to adopt alternative solutions. It's also been mired in an ongoing lawsuit with the state of New York over its breach of a 2008 contract requiring it to provide fiber service within New York City.

This new agreement appears to settle these issues, provided it's followed. Under its terms, Verizon will extend fiber to 10,000 to 12,000 households not currently served by it in Long Island and Verizon's "Upstate Reporting Region" (these are Verizon-specific regions, not geographical areas, so "Long Island" may mean more than just the island). It will begin immediately replacing copper lines in certain specific NYC buildings with high failure rates and transitioning them to fiber optic cable, repairing operations within 50 upstate wireless centers with high failure rates, allow plant technicians to report plant failures and maintenance needs more accurately, and begin inspecting and replacing the batteries that provide critical connectivity in the event of a power outage when said batteries are deployed for specific customers (hospitals, police stations, and other emergency facilities). It will also begin removing so-called "double poles." A double pole is when an old telephone pole is stapled (metaphorically speaking) to a newer one. Some examples of a double pole from PA are shown below; Verizon has been hauled into court to force it to do its job in more than one state.

38 of 74 comments (clear)

  1. Keep the copper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's the last utility that still works in an emergency.

    1. Re:Keep the copper by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're transitioning to fiber to the premises from copper. I'd take fiber over a wireless link shared by half my neighbors and dependent on the right phase of the moon to have decent speed. The idea isn't to replace copper with wireless mediocrity, but to go to fiber with guaranteed speeds.

    2. Re: Keep the copper by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Why are you replying to me? My post was about Verizon FTTX, not the Clintons.

    3. Re:Keep the copper by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Backup battery, have it signal Verizon when it gets low. Tech and replacement is covered by cost of service.

    4. Re:Keep the copper by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Backup battery, have it signal Verizon when it gets low

      During a major emergency, they don't care.... they're not deploying resources to swap backup batteries on your individual service.

      And the only way they're rolling a truck is if you call them.

      Who do you think they are? A competitive service provider? HAHA

    5. Re:Keep the copper by fattmatt · · Score: 1

      Define emergency ... in a storm a tree branch can take out copper for quite a few folks.

    6. Re: Keep the copper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Didja know.

      All of those boxes are actively monitored 24/7 and one of those alarms is: Battery Discharge

      Basically, once the box switches to battery power only and the battery drops to X%, an alarm is generated and tech dispatched.

      At least, thats how the other Telecom does it :)

    7. Re: Keep the copper by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Orange actually maintains their copoed network. Verizon? Nah -- you're lucky to get 3mbps on DSL.

    8. Re: Keep the copper by bn-7bc · · Score: 1

      Well in thst case cat a ups, for all other cases eher power outage isnot an issue norhing bears fiber. Show me one copper based technologuthat gives you 200+ Mbps 20Km from the head end without any repeaters etc?

    9. Re: Keep the copper by bn-7bc · · Score: 1

      Sorry for the ammount of typos, for dome reason I never spot them before it is to kate, slashdot where is rge edit post feature allmost evry other commentsecrion/forum has?

    10. Re:Keep the copper by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      It's the last utility that still works in an emergency.

      Not true. Copper is no less vulnerable than fiber to a backhoe. It fails just as completely when the circuit has no juice. The days are long gone when all copper lived on a resilient infrastructure with batteries and generators. An awful lot of it leads back to a "hut" with minimal battery power and a fiber backhaul to the CO.

    11. Re:Keep the copper by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "During a major emergency, they don't care.... they're not deploying resources to swap backup batteries on your individual service."

      The ice storm in the Northeast US in 1998 proved that wrong.

      First, it caused so much damage to the electrical systems that I was without power for 11 days. My sister was without power for 19 days.

      It happened that the damage done was primarily borne by the electrical lines, the cable and telephone lines partly spared, though many poles were down taking everything. BUT I had telephone service, it happened that many subscribers had telephone service for most of this time, just how the wires fell.

      If it weren't for the ingenuity of the Nynex team, there would have been no service in 48 hours as the SLICs and other equipment batteries failed. They arranged for:

      - spare batteries, mostly from Massachusetts. Upstate New York, etc, having their own problems.
      - spare charging stations, because the Nynex team leader had gone through a similar event in Cape Cod the year before or so.
      - generators to run the charging stations.
      - fuel from the National Guard to run those generators.
      - extra trucks, techs, and fuel for those trucks to swap out batteries all over heck and then some.

      Modern copper requires power. And it's vital. In NYC I would expect a power outage for more than 2 days to present huge problems, and landline services could be a big help, since many cell towers might be running low on fuel for generators in 48 hours. And how many of those use either fiber or copper or backhaul? Power is needed everywhere. Batteries are short lived.

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      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    12. Re: Keep the copper by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      And the tech will get right to it. Right after all the other alarms, the COE alarms, etc, during an event.

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      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    13. Re: Keep the copper by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I can get that in Gilbert, Arizona, right now. vDSL, 40/4, concurrent video service. And the new modem/gateway actually works.

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      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    14. Re:Keep the copper by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't copper these days require less power/fewer batteries to keep up and running? The US phone network is all-digital these days.

      In the 90s, it still had a mixture of digital and electromechanical switching.

      i.e.:
      - Crossbar and SxS, which actually involved moving selector arms with magnets.
      - 1ESS/1AESS, which used mechanical switches (reed switches, maybe?) moved under the control of a big old 1960s or 70s-era computer.

      Plus the digital switches (5ESS, DMS-100) that are still in use some places today.

    15. Re:Keep the copper by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Not many e/m switches in the 90s. I lived in the city that was one of the last crossbar switches converted to ESS.

      1AESS switches are pretty much gone, but SS7 has forced their hand I suspect.

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      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    16. Re:Keep the copper by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Wasn't a large portion of the US on 1ESS or 1AESS in the 90s? First-generation ESS is semi-mechanical, and no doubt has higher power draw than current all-digital systems.

      As far as crossbar, I think parts of NYC were on crossbar till the mid or early 90s. I remember ... "griiiiing - thunk" "griiiiing - thunk" when you called some (718) numbers.

    17. Re:Keep the copper by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Also, remember the old HONK-HONK-HONK busy signals?

  2. Re:Can't they revoke Verizon's license? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    Better yet, pull a Bell Telephone and split it up into local utilities.

  3. Re:5G will fix this by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The union? God forbid that their employees be paid a non-slave wage and be given civilized amounts of time off. There should be more unions for tech workers, not less.

  4. Sad state of affairs by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know it's bad when "Company begrudgingly agrees to hold up it's end of the deal" becomes a "good" headline.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  5. And this is why the market solves nothing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As in Pennsylvania, Verizon has been neglecting its fixed wired infrastructure in its bid to first sabotage copper service, then force customers to adopt alternative solutions. It's also been mired in an ongoing lawsuit with the state of New York over its breach of a 2008 contract requiring it to provide fiber service within New York City.

    And this is why all of the people telling us the market will find a solution are utterly full of shit.

    The free-market is always going to be filled with players who will do anything to get an advantage. They'll outright lie to you or manipulate the game to their advantage.

    The only thing the "free market" optimizes for is greedy assholes.

    The market is completely incapable of solving or fixing this issue, because a bunch of selfish companies will never arrive at a solution which works.

    The reality is, we don't have competing water, sewage, and electricity. We don't have competing roads, fire hydrants, fire services, or police forces. This shit is infrastructure, and built to serve and benefit everyone.

    It's about fucking time we recognized that if telcos want to compete for our business (instead of telling us what we can have as a monopoly) that the cabling which comes to our homes must be common and universal.

    Then let's see what they fucking do.

    These greedy cocksuckers have already collected huge amounts of money which had been required to be earmarked to expand and maintain this infrastructure. The problem is they kept it for profits and failed to invest in their network so they could move on to the next thing they could oversell and under-deliver on.

    That they're trying to let it rot and go away to push us to more modern and profitable stuff is unsurprising. That they're starting to get backed into a corner by states and municipalities is a good sign.

    Free market my goddamned fucking ass ... let the fuckers compete starting from the curb, and then we'll begin to see if there can be such a thing as a free market.

    Of course, Ajit Pai the great puppet of the telcos will probably hand it masters relief from this, because he's such a paid shill it isn't funny.

    Welcome to your oligarchy, America. If you think you have, or ever will have, a free market, you're fucking delusional.

    Somehow I want to see killer clowns executing corporate executives after reading this article. That would be awesome.

    1. Re:And this is why the market solves nothing ... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Go to France...

      You have a choice of 4 ISPs in many parts of the country, not just cable/DSL. Fast >100MB service can be as cheap as $30/mo equivalent.

      Funny that a more socialist country has more competition than the "free market, Horatio Alger" USA.

    2. Re:And this is why the market solves nothing ... by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, but then you have to deal with the French....

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:And this is why the market solves nothing ... by Solandri · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And this is why all of the people telling us the market will find a solution are utterly full of shit.

      What free market? Verizon has a government-granted monopoly in these areas.

      The free-market is always going to be filled with players who will do anything to get an advantage. They'll outright lie to you or manipulate the game to their advantage.

      Exactly right. Which is why in a free market, you have competition. You allow multiple players to offer products and services. If one regularly rips off customers, word gets around and customers stop buying from them, and they end up putting themselves out of business.

      Except in this case the government decided to get involved, and prohibited anyone from competing with Verizon. Yeah Verizon are lying, cheating bastards. But it's not the free market which put them in the position of dominance they enjoy. The government did that. The market kills off bad businesses like Verizon. The government keeps Verizon alive.

      There are lots of areas where the market has problems finding optimal solutions. But this isn't one of them. This turd is 100% on poor government regulation.

    4. Re:And this is why the market solves nothing ... by sacremon · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is poor government regulation.

      However, the free market wouldn't have touched this kind of project. You have companies that have bought the baby Bells, who in turn inherited the infrastructure of the original Bell monopoly. Those companies have what is often the only existing telecommunications infrastructure in the area. For another company to compete, like Google tried with their fiber service, means trying to set up a competing infrastructure to something that has been in place for decades. That is just prohibitively expensive and would take years to accomplish.

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      If you can't beat them, embrace and extend them.
    5. Re:And this is why the market solves nothing ... by jezwel · · Score: 1

      In many cases it appears that government recognised that telcos would not rollout to their areas as it was non-profitable unless they had 100% captured market share to squeeze dry. Hence the government granted monopoly. The telco reneging on deals is the problem - currently under rectification here in some areas at least going by the summary. (Of course this is glossing over corruption on any level).

    6. Re:And this is why the market solves nothing ... by jezwel · · Score: 1

      It's about fucking time we recognized that if telcos want to compete for our business (instead of telling us what we can have as a monopoly) that the cabling which comes to our homes must be common and universal.

      Free market my goddamned fucking ass ... let the fuckers compete starting from the curb, and then we'll begin to see if there can be such a thing as a free market.

      We tried that in Australia - fibre to the premise (FTTP) for everywhere financially viable (93% was the latest estimate), fixed wireless / satellite elsewhere. All centrally owned by a government backed entity, with eventually private investment. Was in rollout stage (slow, but on budget) and working OK until that government was voted out (for other reasons) and the new incoming government changed strategy to use the cheapest to connect technology (which typically excludes fibre) as the preferred connection type. This conveniently excludes TCO over the lifespan of the infrastructure, where fibre wins hands down.
      We're still on track for similar fixed line coverage, with ISPs competing over the one connection type, however the service capability of copper / HFC is absolute crap in comparison to fibre. We also have the inability to run high speed or even reliable services over non-fibre connections, so there goes revenue streams for SLA backed business connections, plus anything higher than 100Mb as that's the max the copper will allow.

      So, there's good and bad to the single player entity for infrastructure. Done right it can be sensational. Done wrong, and it's a money pit.

    7. Re:And this is why the market solves nothing ... by nasch · · Score: 1

      However, the free market wouldn't have touched this kind of project.

      Some would say that is the ideal scenario for a government project...

  6. How 'bout they pay back the billions in subsidies by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    and tax cuts for the fiber network they were paid to build and never did? Seriously, why the hell do we never call companies to task on this shit? You know, they couldn't get away with it if we'd stop voting people in who let them. Why do we keep doing that!?

    --
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  7. Re:OK but by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    Oh, so what you're saying is, this is all your fault.

  8. They do this in Virginia too. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    As in Pennsylvania, Verizon has been neglecting its fixed wired infrastructure in its bid to first sabotage copper service, then force customers to adopt alternative solutions.

    I had Verizon for a home POTS (copper) landline until a few years ago - ('cause it works through all but an extended city-wide power outage). I started having problems with reliability and the tech said they wouldn't fix it and I'd have to "upgrade" to FiOS. Since I already had TV and Internet service with Cox, I just switched to them for phone too -- addition reason, there was no where to easily/nicely mount the new Verizon gear near the exiting hook-up and the TV/Internet hook-up is on the other side of the house. Also, not enough of a Verizon fan to put all my eggs in their basket.

    FYI, if you missed it: You are responsible for paying for the replacement backup battery in your FiOS modem.

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    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  9. Finally fixing by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    that NN ready paper insulated wireline.

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    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  10. Re: Can't they revoke Verizon's license? by orlanz · · Score: 1

    THIS!! Throw them to the curb. This BS is why they do stuff like this. Tell them their incompetence is fine and a few competitors will take care of them.

    Governments need to stop sucking up to these types of companies and basically encouraging their bad behavior. This was a bad deal for these citizens. They should have taken the short term costlier road for the long term benefit. Take the infrastructure, bid out an upgrade, own it, and sue Verizon to recoup some costs. Don't settle, drag them to court even if it is costlier. Set the damn precedent so it is easier in the future for you and others. Then charge the players who want to play on YOUR network and move on!!

  11. Big deal? by bestweasel · · Score: 1

    Verizon will extend fiber to 10,000 to 12,000 households not currently served by it in Long Island and Verizon's "Upstate Reporting Region" (these are Verizon-specific regions, not geographical areas, so "Long Island" may mean more than just the island).

    The agreement says there will be about 7000 on Long Island itself. With a population of 7.8 million and assuming 3 per household that means Verizon will get round to at most 1 in 400 households. If that's worth celebrating what has their performance been like up till now? Also, call me cynical but there's no mention of anything to stop them from giving fiber to the richest 1 in 400 households.

    It looks like they'll only do it if they get public money:

    Verizon has bid for grants under the State Broadband Program Office/CAF
    auction. To the extent that any such grants are awarded to Verizon, the
    company commits to making fiber-based broadband service available to
    certain additional households in the areas covered by such grants

    Ps. editors. Some examples of a double pole from PA are not shown below.

  12. Unions are monopolies by mi · · Score: 1

    paid a non-slave wage

    The only fair and true arbiter of fairness of a wage is an open market. Government-backed unions are the opposite of that — they are monopolies. Trusts, which unabashedly seek to maintain and raise the prices on what they are selling.

    There should be more unions for tech workers, not less.

    Instead of glamorizing them, we ought to apply anti-trust laws to them. And, when they commit crimes to further their goals, RICO-laws should apply.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  13. Re:Can't they revoke Verizon's license? by nasch · · Score: 1

    That wouldn't help, as each of them would still be a local monopoly. I'd rather see Verizon, Comcast, and AT&T broken up into about eight to twelve national broadband providers that would then compete with each other. That would require some other changes like forced line sharing or publicly owned infrastructure, so is never going to happen.

    Unless by utility you mean municipally owned. Interesting idea, but also politically infeasible in the current climate.

  14. Re:5G will fix this by jjbenz · · Score: 1

    a wired connection will always be better than a wireless one.