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Kaspersky Lab Plans Swiss Data Center To Combat Spying Allegations, Report Says (reuters.com)

Posted by msmash on from the how-about-that dept.

An anonymous reader shares a report: Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab plans to open a data center in Switzerland to address Western government concerns that Russia exploits its anti-virus software to spy on customers, according to internal documents seen by Reuters. Kaspersky is setting up the center in response to actions in the United States, Britain and Lithuania last year to stop using the company's products, according to the documents, which were confirmed by a person with direct knowledge of the matter. The action is the latest effort by Kaspersky, a global leader in anti-virus software, to parry accusations by the U.S. government and others that the company spies on customers at the behest of Russian intelligence.

47 comments

  1. This doesn't really solve anything by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    they would need to completely vacate Russia before I trusted them. Any country I buy security software from needs their head office & all their programmers in a country with strong privacy laws and an actual democracy. And yes, that probably excludes everyone outside the EU.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Agreed, I don't see how having a Swiss data center will stop the Kremlin from going to Kaspersky and saying, we need information on your Customers. Please put an update to collect such information, or we will have some Tea in London.

      Because they will need to access such data center from Russia. Download what ever they need and upload patches for the software... A Swiss data center isn't going to be investigating on what traffic is going in and out, evaluating the byte-code of the software updates.

      To be trusted Kaspersky will need an infrastructure and staff completely devoid from Russia, and only profits to to the Company, and paychecks come out (just moving money) The entire source code and build will need to be built from the non-Russian unit hired by nationals of these countries, who have no ties to Russia with the exception of this company is their employer. And such software and rules are govern by host country laws.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      As a Swiss, I don't have much faith in the EU's version of democracy... not that ours isn't also going down the drain, mind you, but for me working democracy means that the voting populace is open and able to rational discussion instead of fear- and hate-mongering. It also means that the press is free (not just from the government but also from the agenda of stockholders).

      I don't know a single country to date where I get that sense.

    3. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You might want to seriously consider whether that's not merely based on a misperception. People are way more pessimistic than they need to be. For various contingent historical reasons, there are currently strong forces that want to undermine general trust in mass media and democratic institutions. These are in the minority but very loud, especially on the Internet. Moreover, new media have helped flooding us with mostly veridical but also mostly negative news. Taken together, these trends create the perception as if the world was currently in a bad state, whereas the contrary is true.

      Take Germany, for instance. Germans are richer than they have ever been before, social injustice is also fairly low in absolute numbers (because of the good economy), the economy is booming, the unemployment rate is very low, customer protection is high, social security is also fairly high, etc., and yet the Germans can't stop whining about everything.

      I'm not claiming that all is rosy, but the way people have started to emphasize and exaggerate every issue recently is not healthy.

    4. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      they would need to completely vacate Russia before I trusted them.

      Why do you need to trust them? Do you regularly travel to regions and countries where Russia has authority to arrest/kill you? Do you keep classified national security data on your 'net-connected computer?

      An an American not involved in anything defense-related, I have far less to fear personally from Russia/FSB than I do from US TLAs and the US government/law enforcement in general. They are certainly not trustworthy and have the ability to snatch you up and ship your ass off to a "black site" or simply by selectively-enforcing some arcane law that hardly ever gets enforced to toss you into PMITA prison.

      I'd trust foreign A/V companies before I'd trust any US A/V companies. US A/V products are the least trustworthy.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    5. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      duh, how else are they going to convince you to start a communist revolution? they have to push a doom & gloom message or they've already lost.

    6. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by geek · · Score: 1

      A poor guy working at Marriot Hotels was recently canned because he liked a comment on Twitter than the Chinese gov disagreed with. China simply told Marriot, fire the guy or we make things hard on you.

      Does your employer do anything with Russia? Do any of your vendors, suppliers, partners? You have a very simplistic view. You don't need to live in those territories, you simply need some remote connection that they can use to apply pressure.

    7. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I think changing their name, and country of origin would also help.

    8. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to seriously consider whether that's not merely based on a misperception. People are way more pessimistic than they need to be. .

      Please. I live in the US. :-|

    9. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And yes, that probably excludes everyone outside the EU"
      And just who do you think violated the EU privacy laws by collecting, storing, and processing bulk data on it's citizens and then provided access to all that data to the NSA or MI5 or pretty much any other allied state intelligence agencies. All the countries they didn't give access to the data most likely gained access using their own counter intelligence methods.

      And since when did the physical location of a data center matter? Any data center would need outside network connectivity to actually make a fully operational data center instead of just a isolated backup storage facility. And Switzerland? Switzerland's reputation as a neutral country was made by ignoring any illegal activities by everyone. They are nothing but a bunch of amoral bastards afraid of their own shadow. They provided banking and secure storage services for the Nazi's and then became the place were criminals of all types could hide their assets without worries.

      And then we have the fine and upstanding folks running the EU. Why would anyone put any faith in an unelected and oversight challenged bureaucracy trying to run every aspect of their lives? Leave it to the proles populating the EU to create an additional level of bureaucracy to run their lives for them. I guess the corruption and malfeasance of their own national governing bodies wasn't enough so like good little sheep they willingly signed up for more. It's like the US handing over control to the UN to dictate and enforcing national policy.

      And think about this. The computer and data storage systems used within Iran's nuclear centrifuge laboratory data center was a military protected site with no outside network connectivity and they still could not prevent their systems from being exploited.

    10. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by jamlam · · Score: 1

      Do you regularly travel to regions and countries where Russia has authority to arrest/kill you?

      No, but recent events in the UK seem to indicate that that isn't really a factor they think about

    11. Re: This doesn't really solve anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iâ(TM)m so sorry. Can we send aid, maybe healthcare or something?

    12. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      A poor guy working at Marriot Hotels was recently canned because he liked a comment on Twitter than the Chinese gov disagreed with. China simply told Marriot, fire the guy or we make things hard on you.

      Does your employer do anything with Russia? Do any of your vendors, suppliers, partners? You have a very simplistic view. You don't need to live in those territories, you simply need some remote connection that they can use to apply pressure.

      Nope.

      I have no pressure points they can use.

      The only option they have with me is murder, as you pointed out. I don't think they'd seriously bother, honestly. Even if the risk was real I wouldn't let that prevent me from doing or saying what I want.

      Thanks for alerting me to Marriot. I'll be certain to never do business with them again.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    13. Re:This doesn't really solve anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It should also exclude the United States of America & the EU.

  2. transparency by TWX · · Score: 1

    Because the Swiss are so known for their transparency laws when it comes to records...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  3. Good solution by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Because the data center is in Switzerland you can't take the data. Because electrons are neutral there. Or something like that.

    1. Re:Good solution by bsolar · · Score: 2

      It’s simply because data protection in Switzerland is granted at the Constitutional level (read: can be changed only with popular vote) and applies to data of legal entities (the EU equivalent is only for personal data as far as I know).

    2. Re:Good solution by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. And spy agencies totally follow the Constitutions of the host countries.

    3. Re:Good solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bits don't use electrons in Switzerland. They use neutrons.

    4. Re:Good solution by bsolar · · Score: 1

      Having higher protection against legal subpoenas is still valuable even if it doesn't make illegal access to the data impossible. It should be obvious, but apparently it's not...

    5. Re: Good solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Badoom tish!

  4. You can take your datacenter out of Russia... by mi · · Score: 5, Informative

    You can take your datacenter out of Russia, but taking Russia our of your datacenter is much harder.

    And harder still is to flush the FSB-agents and collaborators out of your personnel.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  5. USA = Orwellian shithole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    It's funny how Amerimutts and their limey cohorts are running the world's biggest spy ring and yet still find the time to accuse Russia and Kaspersky of "exploiting" their antivirus software.

    1. Re:USA = Orwellian shithole by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Every country is working for its own self interest.
      Yes America is spying. So are the other countries. However, every country when they find a spot where they can find is a spot for spying, they will try to lock it down.

      Do you seriously going to think that America is going to have a policy. "Well because we are spying on you, you can spy on us too."
      No America is going to find new ways to spy on other countries, while locking down ways we are spied upon. Other countries are doing the same too.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:USA = Orwellian shithole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Typical debate with an Amerimutt:

      Amerimutt: *parrots CNN and NYTimes* Russia evil! Russia hacks! Russia spies! Russia dictator! RUSSIA INVADES AND OCCUPIES! America is so great, really; freedom, democracy-- where else in the world are you going to find this? NO WHERE, THAT'S WHERE. WE'RE #1. Even Obama said we're exceptional.

      Casual Observer: You know, Amerimutt, to be fair, US is just as guilty (if not more) of all the bad things you've described, right?

      Amerimutt: Well, DUH-UH! Of course we do all these bad things-- other people do them, too! We gotta keep up with all the dirty business. Don't hate the player, hate the game, 'cuz.

      Casual Observer: Yeah, but then you're not really morally superior or exceptional. You're as much of a shithole of a country as those you accuse of being one.

      Amerimutt: Y-you're a Russian troll! A Putinbot! SHILL! SHIIIILLLLL! *loses it and shits his pants while tearing his hair out in anger*

    3. Re:USA = Orwellian shithole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, did you say something?

    4. Re:USA = Orwellian shithole by butzwonker · · Score: 1

      Two evils don't make a right. Besides, the US government has only prohibited government agencies from using Kaspersky on their official government machines. Anybody is free to use Kaspersky at home or for their private company.

      That's very reasonable. I would personally go much farther. I personally don't think that government agencies should use anything else than software from their own country or (even better) open source software. It's crazy that people in government institutions in my country are allowed to use Gmail for their official mail, thereby allowing the NSA to siphon off all the data that is potentially confidential (e.g. for in-house use only). Stricter rules would make sense - though not all countries can afford those without exception, as e.g. my country of work&residence does not have any company that produces antivirus software of acceptable quality.

    5. Re:USA = Orwellian shithole by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      America may be running the world's biggest spy ring while accusing others of meddling, but at least we are Making Our Orwellian State Great Again!

      doubleplus grate. And the chocolate ration has increased to 20g this week.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    6. Re:USA = Orwellian shithole by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      What the heck, Ill feed the trolls today.

      The issue at hand isn't who is right or wrong. It is just the fact that every country will defend it's own self interest. And a sovereign nation will not do an action that is against its own self interest.

      To stop a country from doing an action, you will either.
      A. Go to war and take over its sovereignty. (or at least have a threat against this)
      B. Use Diplomacy to show such actions are actually against the net self interests of the country.
      C. Adjust your relationship with the country in a way that their self interest is better aligned without doing such action.

      So with the current topic. This Russian company Kaspersky offers a product which may be able to spy on the USA, and is based in a nation that has its self interests in spying on the USA. Because this action is in conflict of American self interests, the relationship with the company, has been changed as not to purchase from them. Figuring that will fix one hole they can get in, and perhaps changing the net self interests for them to improve trust.

      Life isn't fair, and it normally isn't about who is right or wrong. Because anyone who has kids will know it is usually both sides fault, and each side had escalated to some point where one person finally crossed a line. However both kids get punished, because it just wasn't the person who finally threw the punch, but the process to get there.

      The United States normally has more power so it will often bully its ways to keep its self interest. It isn't right, but it is consistent.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  6. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Commie scum.

    Nothing says "We're Safe" like hiding in Switzerland.

  7. Broken Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, trust is fickle. Repeat an accusation enough the it never needs to be proven. In this manner an accusation can destroy a person, company, or country. Trust no matter how strong broken. The echo chambers of internet make this cruel human trait pronounced. Time is the only solution for Kaspersky. This short term solution was very poorly executed.

    1. Re:Broken Trust by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Why would you trust ANY corporation with your data or let them run closed source software on your computers? Totally insane.

    2. Re:Broken Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh you are one of those rare ppl who consume source code including lex like air and have therefore read every single line of code in your system and know what they do in the end?

    3. Re:Broken Trust by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Correct. Don't you? If you don't, why are you surprised when your data is out there?

    4. Re:Broken Trust by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Trust is fickle. It always has been.
      If your trust isn't fickle, then chances are you probably have been radicalized into that group.
      Being that Kaspersky isn't convicted of any crime, we are just not buying their services. It is up to them to regain our trust. Which is difficult, but not impossible.
       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re: Broken Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you trust Western Digital to run closed source software on the controller in your hard drive? Logitech to run closed source firmware in your keyboard? Stop kidding yourself that your 'OS choice' makes you secure.

    6. Re:Broken Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except any encryption software are very difficult to audit. Have you studied any encryption suites and noticed those hardcorded constants which can only be understood by mathematicians? You might be a god in reading and understanding C source, but making sense of how those constants and magic numbers require a different skillset.

  8. Perception vs. reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Swiss have been pretty good at advertising themselves as a privacy heaven for decades. Except they aren't one at all, not even for money, since they signed the OECD agreements against tax evasion (i.e., your swiss bank account and the value of its balance are communicated to your government automatically every year). There aren't many "privacy rankings" for countries, the most respected is usually this one from Privacy International. It dates back to 2007, but privacy legislation hasn't changed much: http://chartsbin.com/view/by8

    It looks like Greece is actually the best for privacy. Switzerland is only 17th. It is unbelievable how much PR can sometimes pay off undeservedly.

    1. Re:Perception vs. reality by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      Our Bundesrat is very open to bending over and taking it from just about anyone... so yeah, interesting marketing stunt on Kaspersky's side.

  9. Won't help by lbmouse · · Score: 1

    Like putting lipstick on a pig-bear.

    1. Re: Won't help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NSA certainly does not want us to run malware detecting software that comes from a company they have very little control over. How do they get their "good" malware whitelisted at Kaspersky?!?

  10. Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The USA/UK governments are basically operating out of completely ideology driven mode these days; they don't need evidences or facts because they frankly don't care.. Actually this goes back to Iraq/WMD where we saw they are operating in bad faith. We can't assume they are ignorant; we have to assume they are malicious and have an intent to deceive.

  11. We pioneered this technology by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    Continue to do what you have always done, but move across the border and suddenly it is legal!

    US Steel sets up plant in Brownsville TX and lay a pipeline across Rio Grande and spew pollution in its sister plant in Matamoros, Mexico! Been there, done that, got the TShirt (made in bangaladesh)

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  12. Re:Fake solution by phayes · · Score: 1

    Anyone who believes that Kaspersky's moves can have any real life effect is a rube. This Potemkin data village will be setup so that russian spooks will be able to access anything they want, either overtly or covertly.

    --
    Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  13. Kaspersky Software ... by houghi · · Score: 1

    as leakproof as Swiss cheese. No, wait ...

    I doubt this will change anything. This issue is not that I do or do not trust the Russians. The issue is that the NSA will not stop the FUD, until they have access.

    They could set up store in the center of the Pentagon and rename themselves to "Homeland Originated Freedom Fighter Alliance". I would STILL not trust them more or less than I do now. And less when the NSA shuts up about them.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  14. black hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The U.S. government won't stop attacking Kaspersky until they allow it a backdoor into your computer.

  15. You're always going to have a trust problem by Maritz · · Score: 1

    When you come from a dictatorship with no rule of law, like Kaspersky does.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.